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1Dhalism
862 Posts
On March 01 2013 07:54 fabiano wrote: This is like saying that in a world without Coca-Cola having Pepsi is just good enough. In a world where opening a coca cola can would require solving a quadratic equation while doing backflips, i think that would be fine yes. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On March 01 2013 08:31 1Dhalism wrote: In a world where opening a coca cola can would require solving a quadratic equation while doing backflips, i think that would be fine yes. I know people that can do that. Maybe differential equations though... | ||
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
wait....shit. that's not right. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On March 01 2013 06:42 KwarK wrote: It doesn't work that way. You get used to it. Saying the game is unplayable with unit selection capped at 12 is like saying the game is unplayable because gateways can't be set to automatically build a certain unit whenever you have psi and minerals. And you also get used to the fact that it doesn't have to be that way. I have played BW for years - I have never watched it, neither I had any idea that there is some "esports" or TL or wahetver, so I wasn't "a part of the community" - but I played the game for some time basically every evening. Then I got worn out by the sheer impossiblity to do anything interesting with some semblance of success, because the game was ridiculously hard - and most of the time we did not even play on fastest! So when SC2 came, I was looking forward to it, but I had no idea how good is it gonna be. I played about 3000 ladder games of SC2 already and there is still something to explore, new things to learn. Yes, there is much more to do in BW, but the difference is, that in SC2, I can actually succeed. So in my point of view, SC2 is an absolutely briliant game and I completely love it. Should I judge Blizzard based on it, I would have to say that they are a damn good company - considering also all the support they give even though I already paid them. Yes, there are things that could be better, but overall, this game was the best spent 50 Euro of my life. | ||
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NIJ
1012 Posts
i mean, i COULD learn to play the guitar. Why do that when I let a program automate that menial task for me. That argument doesnt really work at all cause playing the guitar is in itself what supposed to be rewarding. Too many people want things to be easier these days. And easy is good. But it's gotten to a point of ridiculousness in some games. not saying easiness of sc2 is ridiculous... IDK TBH. But hardness of SC1 was clearly rewarding like playing a high level instrument was. | ||
Rostam
United States2552 Posts
On March 01 2013 06:17 Blackfish wrote: Having thought about this for 2 and a half year now I can tell: If it was broodwar, I wouldn´t play. I like to feel competitve even tough I suck, so sc2 with it´s easier mechanics and league system is perfect for me... And hell it´s still f*cking hard game to play. Now think about broodwar... I mean yeah watching the pros play was great and such, but selecting each worker individually, only 12 things on 1 control group... we all know it, it´s hard and after a stressed out day from school I wouldn´t want that. So for a game itself and not counting in esports... SC2 is better, atleast for the diamond-bronze region. If you don't want a challenge why play a game at all? Don't you think reading a book or watching TV would require less effort than playing SC2? Also, considering original SC sold over 11 million copies I think it had a little more going for it than "esports", especially since "esports" wasn't really a thing at the time BW came out and had no bearing whatsoever on the creation of the game. | ||
KwarK
United States41962 Posts
On March 01 2013 08:34 opisska wrote: And you also get used to the fact that it doesn't have to be that way. I have played BW for years - I have never watched it, neither I had any idea that there is some "esports" or TL or wahetver, so I wasn't "a part of the community" - but I played the game for some time basically every evening. Then I got worn out by the sheer impossiblity to do anything interesting with some semblance of success, because the game was ridiculously hard - and most of the time we did not even play on fastest! So when SC2 came, I was looking forward to it, but I had no idea how good is it gonna be. I played about 3000 ladder games of SC2 already and there is still something to explore, new things to learn. Yes, there is much more to do in BW, but the difference is, that in SC2, I can actually succeed. So in my point of view, SC2 is an absolutely briliant game and I completely love it. Should I judge Blizzard based on it, I would have to say that they are a damn good company - considering also all the support they give even though I already paid them. Yes, there are things that could be better, but overall, this game was the best spent 50 Euro of my life. It's above average but even a bunch of things like the functionality of the multiplayer (battlebet 2.0) are inferior to bw. Admittedly it took about six years of patches for bw to get to the point it got to but that was groundbreaking stuff. Starcraft built upon the legacy of Warcraft II and introduced revolutionary online multiplayer gaming. SC II was shipped without chat channels and the like and was slow in responding to the needs that the gamers knew they had because previous games had already provided for them while pushing no boundaries itself. The same mentality applied to the gameplay itself, where previously it had been groundbreaking it became just an imitation of a proven formula. The formula is good, I'm not doubting that, when I say something is imitating the stuff that made bw a success I'm not knocking it, bw was really good. But a poorly photocopied version of something good is not what Blizzard used to be about. They pushed the boundaries and set the benchmark for these genres, it was Blizzard innovation that made them what they are, for them to maintain their reputation for exceptional work they need to continue that revolutionary approach rather than rest on their laurels and imitate their past glories. Anyone could see what made a multiplayer RTS good after brood war, starcraft II is good but it should be good because the formula has already been discovered and proven. Blizzard previously set a higher standard by inventing that formula and simply achieving a competent imitation is a failure to match the standard they set for themselves. | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
On March 01 2013 08:31 1Dhalism wrote: In a world where opening a coca cola can would require solving a quadratic equation while doing backflips, i think that would be fine yes. People will never achieve anything great without working hard, choosing the easy path will alienate them. Besides, after the first week of struggle, you will enjoy Coca-Cola for the rest of your life and backflips and quadratic equations will be as natural as breathing. The Pepsi chooser will just be fat and bald  | ||
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
On March 01 2013 09:18 KwarK wrote: It's above average but even a bunch of things like the functionality of the multiplayer (battlebet 2.0) are inferior to bw. Admittedly it took about six years of patches for bw to get to the point it got to but that was groundbreaking stuff. Starcraft built upon the legacy of Warcraft II and introduced revolutionary online multiplayer gaming. SC II was shipped without chat channels and the like and was slow in responding to the needs that the gamers knew they had because previous games had already provided for them while pushing no boundaries itself. The same mentality applied to the gameplay itself, where previously it had been groundbreaking it became just an imitation of a proven formula. The formula is good, I'm not doubting that, when I say something is imitating the stuff that made bw a success I'm not knocking it, bw was really good. But a poorly photocopied version of something good is not what Blizzard used to be about. They pushed the boundaries and set the benchmark for these genres, it was Blizzard innovation that made them what they are, for them to maintain their reputation for exceptional work they need to continue that revolutionary approach rather than rest on their laurels and imitate their past glories. Anyone could see what made a multiplayer RTS good after brood war, starcraft II is good but it should be good because the formula has already been discovered and proven. Blizzard previously set a higher standard by inventing that formula and simply achieving a competent imitation is a failure to match the standard they set for themselves. Im not sure what your arguing then , do you want them to make different games ? How do you push the boundaries of RTS or RPG games like diablo ? People are too crazy about balance for them to do anything revolutionary , don't fix what isn't broken . | ||
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Falling
Canada11266 Posts
On March 01 2013 10:14 Shakattak wrote: Im not sure what your arguing then , do you want them to make different games ? How do you push the boundaries of RTS or RPG games like diablo ? People are too crazy about balance for them to do anything revolutionary , don't fix what isn't broken . Well look no further than how Battlenet 0.2 was shipped and you could say they broke what didn't need to be fixed and I think you have a better idea of what kwark is saying. There are many places where they shipped out 'less than' rather than 'equal to' or 'greater than.' | ||
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Csong
Canada396 Posts
On February 28 2013 20:08 Velr wrote: I just realise... ~3-4 Years ago i would have been hyped as fuck for this. Now I just don't give a shit. SC2.. D3... And with it Blizzard... Oh how the mighty have fallen. pretty much sums me up too | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On March 01 2013 08:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: The fact of the matter is IMO that Blizzard games are just too worn out, another WoW expansion, yawn. D3 expac where you can now keep track of ebaying, hooray? The company needs to start showing some creativity such as another game which is not an MMO or Strategy game. As for another SC game just write the book better chance of me getting it. This^^. The thing is that Blizzard games USED to stand for innovation and creative thinking, only second to, which was almost as good as their products, the marketing they used to sell it. Blizzard has, from to my perspective, lost allot of their innovative drives they once had, and the only thing that still sells them games like diablo3 is their past record of excellent games and their ability to market their products. Remove previous experience of when Blizzard delivered great games and the marketing stuff and at least diablo3 would not had sold that much. | ||
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Unifex
United States68 Posts
Blizzard made a smart move breaking it in 3 pieces, more money of course but also more time to truly tune and refine what is really just 1 game. 1 game that we won't be able to play till probably 2015. | ||
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ETisME
12276 Posts
On March 01 2013 09:16 Rostam wrote: If you don't want a challenge why play a game at all? Don't you think reading a book or watching TV would require less effort than playing SC2? Also, considering original SC sold over 11 million copies I think it had a little more going for it than "esports", especially since "esports" wasn't really a thing at the time BW came out and had no bearing whatsoever on the creation of the game. He said SC2 is still HARD even with the easier mechanics, that means it's still challenging. Personally I find BW more frustrating than challenging to play. You basically have to babysit the workers built and the army movement and pathing (or they will get stucked and blocking the units behind). It's extremely annoying to have to consistently babysitting these units. I used to joke with a friend that if the original Starcraft had no worker auto mining and army will not auto attack enemies nearby, then people are going to complain about broodwar being too easy too. for them, their preferred sequel is a game where if you haven't selected the unit for the past 20 seconds, it will automatically kill itself. (then you surely will be screaming at the pro's mechanics) | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On March 01 2013 10:22 Falling wrote: Well look no further than how Battlenet 0.2 was shipped and you could say they broke what didn't need to be fixed and I think you have a better idea of what kwark is saying. There are many places where they shipped out 'less than' rather than 'equal to' or 'greater than.' This is pretty much bullshit right here. Nothing more, nothing less. You don't like Battle.net 2.0, we get that, but to suggest that it was a worse iteration of the shit IRC client that you had in BW and WC3 is stupid. It's different, they tried new things, and it was relatively polished for how new it was. You couldn't integrate other Blizzard games on the old Battle.net, you couldn't create the achievements, level system, competent stat tracking, a reliable ladder and matchmaking system, and so on. Even on their worst part, custom game management, it was infinitely better than what WC3 had become: a list of 95% bot hosted DotA games, 5% games that were also bot hosted and would kick you for downloading. That was a ton of fun... | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
But they won't do it... Also people speaks of Lost Viking remake... Why would you remake lost vikings when you can remake... ROCK'N ROLL FUCKING RACING ! | ||
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GizmoPT
Portugal3040 Posts
On March 01 2013 18:51 FFW_Rude wrote: They could also redo another time the Bnet interface. I HATE HotS interface. I have to close 3menus (once with the X top right and then with the arrow top left) in order to get where i want. It's HORRIBLE ! But they won't do it... Also people speaks of Lost Viking remake... Why would you remake lost vikings when you can remake... ROCK'N ROLL FUCKING RACING ! hotkeys | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
Yeah... About that... (You have to know they exists (like the patrol command ingame. If you don't know that it exists... Well...)) And you cannot all touch with hotkeys. The old interface was much better. But it's off topic ^^ | ||
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Ricjames
Czech Republic1047 Posts
Yeah whatever Blizzard, we don't care. | ||
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Skilledblob
Germany3392 Posts
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