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On February 28 2013 23:19 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 22:56 mordk wrote:On February 28 2013 20:08 Velr wrote:
I just realise... ~3-4 Years ago i would have been hyped as fuck for this. Now I just don't give a shit.
SC2.. D3... And with it Blizzard... Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Meh.. SC2 is fine and was always fine. It wasn't BW on 3D which many people wanted, but it's a damn fine game. Not for a company which brought out Diablo I and II, Starcraft and Brood War and the original WoW. Blizzard were once exceptional.
Blizzard did with SC2 what they've ALWAYS done. The difference is the games they improved upon with SC and WoW weren't that big, so the concepts they polished to near perfection seemed almost like new things. Diablo 1 was innovative, and D2 was faaar from brilliant.
People are too blinded by nostalgia sometimes, Blizzard have always taken ancient concepts and polished them, they did the same with SC2 in terms of single player, and they tried to streamline the MP experience with both hits and misses they've been trying to fix.
SC2 is definitely an exceptional game, particularly in a genre so devoid of great games as RTS nowadays. Only competitor is CoH really. WH40K strategy games aren't close to either of them.
To expand on this, you cannot expect anything more from a sequel than the expansion of the concepts previously instated by the series. In this case, for SC2 to be truly innovative, you'd probably have to break the asymetrical balance that is at the core of the game, effectively making it a different beast altogether. I have my hopes up for Blizzard's next IP, which is probably going to take concepts from this current generation of games and improve and polish them. That's what Blizzard does best, they are hardly innovators in the industry, and have NEVER been.
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On March 01 2013 06:02 Shakattak wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 23:19 KwarK wrote:On February 28 2013 22:56 mordk wrote:On February 28 2013 20:08 Velr wrote:
I just realise... ~3-4 Years ago i would have been hyped as fuck for this. Now I just don't give a shit.
SC2.. D3... And with it Blizzard... Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Meh.. SC2 is fine and was always fine. It wasn't BW on 3D which many people wanted, but it's a damn fine game. Not for a company which brought out Diablo I and II, Starcraft and Brood War and the original WoW. Blizzard were once exceptional. They still are exceptional , seriously though D3 I can't see how that could have been a good game to begin with . Should have ended with 2 since you wrecked the prime evils . BW and Original starcraft were a huge improvement on the RTS genre for sure. People are just fucking impossible to please. You can't make a game that every one is happy about , to be honest if BW and the orginal sc didn't exist and they came out with sc2 ( it would be called starcraft obviously) the game would of been a record breaker. People would think that the game was absolutely amazing . Its hard to make people happy when they have expectations that can't be met .
How exactly can you consider them "exceptional" at this day? What truly great games have they released in the last 5 years (or even longer). They are by no means terrible or bad, you might even say they are a still really good, but exceptional? How long will take with them releasing content that don't quite live up to the expectations or are outright disappointing before they lose that title? Diablo 3 could have been a good game, the core of the game, the actual combat, the gameplay actually felt pretty good and the aesthetics and atmosphere was also good as well even if it wasn't to everyone's taste. Then they ruined it with a in-your-face cliched story, ruined the late game with the auction house and made a "consolesque" UI that was disappointing. If they had stripped away all the bullshit it could have been a good, though probably not groundbreaking, but still a good game.
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My hope is that its a Blackthorne remake. I think that would be incredible.
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On March 01 2013 06:20 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 23:19 KwarK wrote:On February 28 2013 22:56 mordk wrote:On February 28 2013 20:08 Velr wrote:
I just realise... ~3-4 Years ago i would have been hyped as fuck for this. Now I just don't give a shit.
SC2.. D3... And with it Blizzard... Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Meh.. SC2 is fine and was always fine. It wasn't BW on 3D which many people wanted, but it's a damn fine game. Not for a company which brought out Diablo I and II, Starcraft and Brood War and the original WoW. Blizzard were once exceptional. Blizzard did with SC2 what they've ALWAYS done. The difference is the games they improved upon with SC and WoW weren't that big, so the concepts they polished to near perfection seemed almost like new things. Diablo 1 was innovative, and D2 was faaar from brilliant. People are too blinded by nostalgia sometimes, Blizzard have always taken ancient concepts and polished them, they did the same with SC2 in terms of single player, and they tried to streamline the MP experience with both hits and misses they've been trying to fix. SC2 is definitely an exceptional game, particularly in a genre so devoid of great games as RTS nowadays. Only competitor is CoH really. WH40K strategy games aren't close to either of them.
I wouldn't say it's exceptional just because there's pretty much no companies making true base building rts's anymore. And even if you can call parts of the game exceptional doesn't mean it applies to Blizzard.
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On March 01 2013 06:27 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 06:20 mordk wrote:On February 28 2013 23:19 KwarK wrote:On February 28 2013 22:56 mordk wrote:On February 28 2013 20:08 Velr wrote:
I just realise... ~3-4 Years ago i would have been hyped as fuck for this. Now I just don't give a shit.
SC2.. D3... And with it Blizzard... Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Meh.. SC2 is fine and was always fine. It wasn't BW on 3D which many people wanted, but it's a damn fine game. Not for a company which brought out Diablo I and II, Starcraft and Brood War and the original WoW. Blizzard were once exceptional. Blizzard did with SC2 what they've ALWAYS done. The difference is the games they improved upon with SC and WoW weren't that big, so the concepts they polished to near perfection seemed almost like new things. Diablo 1 was innovative, and D2 was faaar from brilliant. People are too blinded by nostalgia sometimes, Blizzard have always taken ancient concepts and polished them, they did the same with SC2 in terms of single player, and they tried to streamline the MP experience with both hits and misses they've been trying to fix. SC2 is definitely an exceptional game, particularly in a genre so devoid of great games as RTS nowadays. Only competitor is CoH really. WH40K strategy games aren't close to either of them. I wouldn't say it's exceptional just because there's pretty much no companies making true base building rts's anymore. And even if you can call parts of the game exceptional doesn't mean it applies to Blizzard.
Well Blizzard makes those parts of the game. Of course you can't apply this to the team behind D3, they made a good-but no cigar game that wouldn't have received nearly as much flak if it weren't for it's predecessors being so engrained in PC gamer culture. For SC2's team, I still have high hopes. SC2 is a very, very good game in all aspects except bnet 0.2. Whether it meets the criteria for hardcore BW players to like it is an entirely different matter, completely unrelated to the objective quality of the product itself.
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United States44432 Posts
On March 01 2013 06:17 Blackfish wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 23:19 KwarK wrote:On February 28 2013 22:56 mordk wrote:On February 28 2013 20:08 Velr wrote:
I just realise... ~3-4 Years ago i would have been hyped as fuck for this. Now I just don't give a shit.
SC2.. D3... And with it Blizzard... Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Meh.. SC2 is fine and was always fine. It wasn't BW on 3D which many people wanted, but it's a damn fine game. Not for a company which brought out Diablo I and II, Starcraft and Brood War and the original WoW. Blizzard were once exceptional. Having thought about this for 2 and a half year now I can tell: If it was broodwar, I wouldn´t play. I like to feel competitve even tough I suck, so sc2 with it´s easier mechanics and league system is perfect for me... And hell it´s still f*cking hard game to play. Now think about broodwar... I mean yeah watching the pros play was great and such, but selecting each worker individually, only 12 things on 1 control group... we all know it, it´s hard and after a stressed out day from school I wouldn´t want that. So for a game itself and not counting in esports... SC2 is better, atleast for the diamond-bronze region.
It doesn't work that way. You get used to it. Saying the game is unplayable with unit selection capped at 12 is like saying the game is unplayable because gateways can't be set to automatically build a certain unit whenever you have psi and minerals.
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It's a rock with facebook integration!
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Yeah.. after SC2 and Diablo 3, I hope they wont try their hands at a new WC game. Makes me think about Disney making additional Star Wars films tbh.
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On March 01 2013 06:31 Mementoss wrote:
Lost Vikings 3DS
That would be awesome. I'd go buy a 3DS for it.
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i don't understand how people can compare SC2 and D3.
SC2 is still the best new strategy game and at worst the 3rd best esports strategy game of all time behind SCBW and WC3.
I know you Elephantmen love to hate, but Blizzard is still the top dog
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On March 01 2013 07:50 1Dhalism wrote:
i don't understand how people can compare SC2 and D3.
SC2 is still the best new strategy game and at worst the 3rd best esports strategy game of all time behind SCBW and WC3.
I know you Elephantmen love to hate, but Blizzard is still the top dog
This is like saying that in a world without Coca-Cola having Pepsi is just good enough.
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On March 01 2013 07:26 Elroi wrote:
Yeah.. after SC2 and Diablo 3, I hope they wont try their hands at a new WC game. Makes me think about Disney making additional Star Wars films tbh.
I bet they have at least 2 more expansions in mind for WoW (level 100 characters), unless they just decide to go straight to level 100 in the next expansion. I don't think they could release news of a new Warcraft game until they're completely finished with WoW, for the sake of the story. You wouldn't want 2 games with the same lore developing 2 different storylines at the same time, especially with one being in the future (assuming said Warcraft game would be taking place at least several years in the future).
That said, I'm still looking forward to Blizzard's announcement. It can't possibly be bad news; disappointing, maybe, but it can't be bad.
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On March 01 2013 07:50 1Dhalism wrote:
i don't understand how people can compare SC2 and D3.
SC2 is still the best new strategy game and at worst the 3rd best esports strategy game of all time behind SCBW and WC3.
I know you Elephantmen love to hate, but Blizzard is still the top dog
I hate to be the guy that jumps on the hate train but there were some really obvious design flaws in WC3 and in the transition to TFT.
The Manaburn ability in itself is the worst idea ever in a game centered around hero usage (and thus mana). The whole Antiair concept with dragonhawks and nerfed gyrocopters in an expansion centered around anti-magic is borderline moronic.
But I still can't say I hate the game. I played it for many years and was happy with it. But they always had flaws in their games nostalgia now clouds. (barbarian pole arm mastery my ass.)
I'm still excited for the "new thing" to announce despite the fact that I hope it's not console related b/c I don't play consoles.
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The fact of the matter is IMO that Blizzard games are just too worn out, another WoW expansion, yawn. D3 expac where you can now keep track of ebaying, hooray?
The company needs to start showing some creativity such as another game which is not an MMO or Strategy game. As for another SC game just write the book better chance of me getting it.
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Blizzard All-Stars + more console jazz is my guess.
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On March 01 2013 08:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The fact of the matter is IMO that Blizzard games are just too worn out, another WoW expansion, yawn. D3 expac where you can now keep track of ebaying, hooray?
The company needs to start showing some creativity such as another game which is not an MMO or Strategy game. As for another SC game just write the book better chance of me getting it.
This seems like a legitimate complaint. Much better than the "they should have made Battle.net 1.1/SCBW2/Diablo 2.1!" nonsense half of you drone on about. I want a new IP that perfects or redefines a genre. Getting tired of sequels and expansions from everybody.
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On March 01 2013 06:42 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 06:17 Blackfish wrote:On February 28 2013 23:19 KwarK wrote:On February 28 2013 22:56 mordk wrote:On February 28 2013 20:08 Velr wrote:
I just realise... ~3-4 Years ago i would have been hyped as fuck for this. Now I just don't give a shit.
SC2.. D3... And with it Blizzard... Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Meh.. SC2 is fine and was always fine. It wasn't BW on 3D which many people wanted, but it's a damn fine game. Not for a company which brought out Diablo I and II, Starcraft and Brood War and the original WoW. Blizzard were once exceptional. Having thought about this for 2 and a half year now I can tell: If it was broodwar, I wouldn´t play. I like to feel competitve even tough I suck, so sc2 with it´s easier mechanics and league system is perfect for me... And hell it´s still f*cking hard game to play. Now think about broodwar... I mean yeah watching the pros play was great and such, but selecting each worker individually, only 12 things on 1 control group... we all know it, it´s hard and after a stressed out day from school I wouldn´t want that. So for a game itself and not counting in esports... SC2 is better, atleast for the diamond-bronze region. It doesn't work that way. You get used to it. Saying the game is unplayable with unit selection capped at 12 is like saying the game is unplayable because gateways can't be set to automatically build a certain unit whenever you have psi and minerals.
I think what was he trying to say is that Blizzard designs games with only one goal in mind; money. Obviously every company wants the biggest and best profits, but a lot of smaller gaming companies still prioritize a "good game" over a "good profit". Unfortunately, Blizzard has become so big that they are driven purely by capital gain. They pump out very poor and unfinished games as fast as possible, and patch it up and slowly let the consumers fix the problems.
If I'm not mistaken, Blackfish maybe was trying to get the point that, if there was a very skilled, difficult game, and incredibly well built and done, such as broodwar, money would be second priority purely based on the fact that the masses would enjoy a shittier, easier, basic game to play. An example could be Diablo 3. Blizzard knew full well that it was a shit game, and they still released it. This happened with SC2 when it first came out too, in fact I have a post during Beta stating that Blizzard is NO WHERE near where they want to be in terms of completion, but the release date was set and they will stick to that, because profit is king, not good games. Thus, a very painful and extremely long period of time where consumers exploited the shittyness of said game, until we figured out what was wrong and did Blizzard's job for them. In fact, we are so stupid we enjoy doing so. Long debates, countless hours of testing. It's an extremely smart business move to save all that profit and let the consumer do the labor.
The CoD/ Black Ops franchises is a great example of this. At one point, these games were built to last. Unfortunately, these companies (Activision,Treyarch) know that if they pump out a game faster, even though it's not quite as good, thought out, coded well, profits will still be much more than if the game was in development for the proper amount of time. They don't care that we, the consumer, have to suffer for a few months fixing their mistakes for them.
You are absolutely correct, players do get used to difficult mechanics and will continue playing, but not as many players. And that drives profits down. Broodwar was a difficult game, but after hours and hours of practice you could get used to the difficult mechanics. Believe it or not though, the vast majority of people these days would move on, and deem such a game 'shit' because of the unnecessary difficulty. Hence what Blackfish said, as he is probably a typical consumer, a part of the masses. (I hope that's not offensive?)
The fact that capitalism now trumps design is quite depressing. It's so rare to see good writing in games these days. It's almost as if games aren't really trying to tell you anything anymore, and that it's just a mindless, repetitive task, with a simple reward after each one. I understand the psychology behind that, but that's not what a game is supposed to be, and I think it's an unfortunate side-effect; the fact we accept these shit games as 'good ones' or, popular games as 'good', that it's a side-effect of capitalism and profit.
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I could be wrong but I assumed that they would end WoW at level 100 whenever that Titan MMO comes out and try and get people to switch over to it (if they want to make another MMO still).
As for a new IP, I think that is a good idea. Unfortunately it is kind of risky to do that instead of sticking with a known product, so investors may not like it, but I think they should go for it.
Overall I say there is a 50% chance it is something interesting (totally new) and a 50% chance it is something like a demo of blizzard all-stars.
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LOV Beta. Calling it 
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EPT
