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While they're at it, why not let them cast the Superbowl too! Oh, that's right, something that prestigeous is reserved for those with experience and popularity. Perhaps the 14% approval rating says something. Why not let them gain experience casting something no one watches until they are good enough where they deserve to cast Pro League. Whiplash seems like he will reach that potential someday. Not so sure about SNM. Can you imagine 2 amateur guys with no broadcast experience casting an English Premier League game or an NFL game for ESPN? Of course you can't and that's why that company is successful. Even if it's 2 former pros. Let's take Scottie Pippen and Dikembe Mutombo(since even non native English speakers get hired). How interesting would that broadcast actually be without someone with some broadcast experience and charisma? How much can you really analyze a game and how neccessary is that at the cost of having a true communicator to lead the broadcast?
When you watch the Superbowl next Sunday, consider the broadcasters. How much energy they have as well as charisma and chemistry. Also note that they offer analysis and insight, but notice it isn't neccessarily THAT MUCH. Some times it's just obvious stuff pointed out in a charismatic way (John Madden). They key is they don't try to stretch themselves by taking chances and say something WRONG. That's called a mistake!
The broadcasting of Starcraft 2 clearly took a step back in the wrong direction with this hire after all the improvements that have happened over the last 2-years. Hopefully this will be a step back for 2 steps forward, but I don't expect that if things continue with the personnel in the saddle right now.
Please note, I don't blame Whiplash and SNM, they did what anyone would have done and they're obviously trying. But to think they wouldn't receive as much negative feedback as they've received would be naive. To those that are in that 14%, I understand where you are coming from, but also imagine how enjoyable this would be to watch if a top caster was doing this instead of these Rookies.
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This thread is not going to do anything if people just keep bitching and not giving any form of concrete detail. The easiest way to do so is to just use the list BBCode. I.E. <list> then add as many bullets as needed <*>. Not trying to back seat mod, but I think saying something like:
- I think Whiplash is doing OK, but he needs to focus on the game (or at least the story line) and stop getting off track as much. I also think that he has issues with SNM concerning their fluidity as partners, so they should practice casting in their offtime to replays.
- I think SNM is struggling, in order to remedy that, he should practice a bit more. Along with that, he should stop making side comments to "liven up" the surrounding story, let Whiplash do that, and have SNM focus on the micro/macro in game. Have SNM do analysis while Whiplash does some analysis, and have whiplash take a dominant role in color commentary.
- Don't make jokes outside of the game until you are not in game. Don't be Tastosis, you will never be Tastosis. In fact, though you may become as loved as a casting duo later on, for right now I'd love it if the jokes stayed when you guys are waiting on the game to start rather than in the game.
I enjoy the casting, and I don't see why people consider them amatuers when I've seen significantly worse out of other leagues and in other video games. I think if people followed this method, SNM and Whiplash could look through here without people jumping down their throats as much. Editors regularly give 10% positive feedback and 90% negative feedback, I think that if we were to do that, SNM and Whiplash could come in here and see what they are doing RIGHT and what they are doing WRONG.
Much love guys, I enjoy SPL very much, and I like your casting quite a bit, though I realize (and so do you two) that it can improve  .
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On January 23 2013 08:47 Wrangler wrote:
While they're at it, why not let them cast the Superbowl too! Oh, that's right, something that prestigeous is reserved for those with experience and popularity. Perhaps the 14% approval rating says something. Why not let them gain experience casting something no one watches until they are good enough where they deserve to cast Pro League. Whiplash seems like he will reach that potential someday. Not so sure about SNM. Can you imagine 2 amateur guys with no broadcast experience casting an English Premier League game or an NFL game for ESPN? Of course you can't and that's why that company is successful. Even if it's 2 former pros. Let's take Scottie Pippen and Dikembe Mutombo(since even non native English speakers get hired). How interesting would that broadcast actually be without someone with some broadcast experience and charisma? How much can you really analyze a game and how neccessary is that at the cost of having a true communicator to lead the broadcast?
When you watch the Superbowl next Sunday, consider the broadcasters. How much energy they have as well as charisma and chemistry. Also note that they offer analysis and insight, but notice it isn't neccessarily THAT MUCH. Some times it's just obvious stuff pointed out in a charismatic way (John Madden). They key is they don't try to stretch themselves by taking chances and say something WRONG. That's called a mistake!
The broadcasting of Starcraft 2 clearly took a step back in the wrong direction with this hire after all the improvements that have happened over the last 2-years. Hopefully this will be a step back for 2 steps forward, but I don't expect that if things continue with the personnel in the saddle right now.
Please note, I don't blame Whiplash and SNM, they did what anyone would have done and they're obviously trying. But to think they wouldn't receive as much negative feedback as they've received would be naive. To those that are in that 14%, I understand where you are coming from, but also imagine how enjoyable this would be to watch if a top caster was doing this instead of these Rookies.
In fairness, people complain all the time about sports commentators too.
It's worth noting that part of the problem is that Proleague is a Korean event, broadcast for the international audience. Comparing American commentators for Americans sports is hardly a fair comparison. What you would want to ask is whether, say, the French broadcast and commentary of the Superbowl is excellent as well.
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On January 23 2013 09:04 docvoc wrote:This thread is not going to do anything if people just keep bitching and not giving any form of concrete detail. The easiest way to do so is to just use the list BBCode. I.E. <list> then add as many bullets as needed <*>. Not trying to back seat mod, but I think saying something like: - I think Whiplash is doing OK, but he needs to focus on the game (or at least the story line) and stop getting off track as much. I also think that he has issues with SNM concerning their fluidity as partners, so they should practice casting in their offtime to replays.
- I think SNM is struggling, in order to remedy that, he should practice a bit more. Along with that, he should stop making side comments to "liven up" the surrounding story, let Whiplash do that, and have SNM focus on the micro/macro in game. Have SNM do analysis while Whiplash does some analysis, and have whiplash take a dominant role in color commentary.
- Don't make jokes outside of the game until you are not in game. Don't be Tastosis, you will never be Tastosis. In fact, though you may become as loved as a casting duo later on, for right now I'd love it if the jokes stayed when you guys are waiting on the game to start rather than in the game.
I enjoy the casting, and I don't see why people consider them amatuers when I've seen significantly worse out of other leagues and in other video games. I think if people followed this method, SNM and Whiplash could look through here without people jumping down their throats as much. Editors regularly give 10% positive feedback and 90% negative feedback, I think that if we were to do that, SNM and Whiplash could come in here and see what they are doing RIGHT and what they are doing WRONG. Much love guys, I enjoy SPL very much, and I like your casting quite a bit, though I realize (and so do you two) that it can improve .
I disagree with everything you said except for the fact that SNM is struggling. He is solely responsible for me using the Korean stream instead. My feedback is that if you need people telling you how to do your job, then you are not qualified for it and should improve quickly or step aside before you get fired.
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On January 23 2013 09:12 Sluggy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 09:04 docvoc wrote:This thread is not going to do anything if people just keep bitching and not giving any form of concrete detail. The easiest way to do so is to just use the list BBCode. I.E. <list> then add as many bullets as needed <*>. Not trying to back seat mod, but I think saying something like: - I think Whiplash is doing OK, but he needs to focus on the game (or at least the story line) and stop getting off track as much. I also think that he has issues with SNM concerning their fluidity as partners, so they should practice casting in their offtime to replays.
- I think SNM is struggling, in order to remedy that, he should practice a bit more. Along with that, he should stop making side comments to "liven up" the surrounding story, let Whiplash do that, and have SNM focus on the micro/macro in game. Have SNM do analysis while Whiplash does some analysis, and have whiplash take a dominant role in color commentary.
- Don't make jokes outside of the game until you are not in game. Don't be Tastosis, you will never be Tastosis. In fact, though you may become as loved as a casting duo later on, for right now I'd love it if the jokes stayed when you guys are waiting on the game to start rather than in the game.
I enjoy the casting, and I don't see why people consider them amatuers when I've seen significantly worse out of other leagues and in other video games. I think if people followed this method, SNM and Whiplash could look through here without people jumping down their throats as much. Editors regularly give 10% positive feedback and 90% negative feedback, I think that if we were to do that, SNM and Whiplash could come in here and see what they are doing RIGHT and what they are doing WRONG. Much love guys, I enjoy SPL very much, and I like your casting quite a bit, though I realize (and so do you two) that it can improve . I disagree with everything you said except for the fact that SNM is struggling. He is solely responsible for me using the Korean stream instead. My feedback is that if you need people telling you how to do your job, then you are not qualified for it and should improve quickly or step aside before you get fired.
Sheesh, I hope you're never a manager. You asking complete casters to emerge like Athena from the head of Zeus. It's an iterative process and both they and the casting profession as a whole will get better.
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Whiplash may one day be a good caster but currently its hard to gauge how good/bad he is when his co-caster is so terrible. SNM will never be a good caster. He doesn't have the personality, voice or charisma for the job of a caster. He does however do a good job at translating when he is able to hear the Koreans talk (which has a lot of value). I honestly wouldn't have subscribed to SPL if I knew that SNM and whiplash were casting. I would of just watched the Korean stream and listen to Nathanias cast.
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On January 23 2013 09:20 coverpunch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 09:12 Sluggy wrote:On January 23 2013 09:04 docvoc wrote:This thread is not going to do anything if people just keep bitching and not giving any form of concrete detail. The easiest way to do so is to just use the list BBCode. I.E. <list> then add as many bullets as needed <*>. Not trying to back seat mod, but I think saying something like: - I think Whiplash is doing OK, but he needs to focus on the game (or at least the story line) and stop getting off track as much. I also think that he has issues with SNM concerning their fluidity as partners, so they should practice casting in their offtime to replays.
- I think SNM is struggling, in order to remedy that, he should practice a bit more. Along with that, he should stop making side comments to "liven up" the surrounding story, let Whiplash do that, and have SNM focus on the micro/macro in game. Have SNM do analysis while Whiplash does some analysis, and have whiplash take a dominant role in color commentary.
- Don't make jokes outside of the game until you are not in game. Don't be Tastosis, you will never be Tastosis. In fact, though you may become as loved as a casting duo later on, for right now I'd love it if the jokes stayed when you guys are waiting on the game to start rather than in the game.
I enjoy the casting, and I don't see why people consider them amatuers when I've seen significantly worse out of other leagues and in other video games. I think if people followed this method, SNM and Whiplash could look through here without people jumping down their throats as much. Editors regularly give 10% positive feedback and 90% negative feedback, I think that if we were to do that, SNM and Whiplash could come in here and see what they are doing RIGHT and what they are doing WRONG. Much love guys, I enjoy SPL very much, and I like your casting quite a bit, though I realize (and so do you two) that it can improve . I disagree with everything you said except for the fact that SNM is struggling. He is solely responsible for me using the Korean stream instead. My feedback is that if you need people telling you how to do your job, then you are not qualified for it and should improve quickly or step aside before you get fired. Sheesh, I hope you're never a manager. You asking complete casters to emerge like Athena from the head of Zeus. It's an iterative process and both they and the casting profession as a whole will get better.
Nah man, my expectations for a 'good' caster are pretty low: don't irritate the shit out of me. Whiplash is completely fine imo
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On January 23 2013 14:35 Sluggy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 09:20 coverpunch wrote:On January 23 2013 09:12 Sluggy wrote:On January 23 2013 09:04 docvoc wrote:This thread is not going to do anything if people just keep bitching and not giving any form of concrete detail. The easiest way to do so is to just use the list BBCode. I.E. <list> then add as many bullets as needed <*>. Not trying to back seat mod, but I think saying something like: - I think Whiplash is doing OK, but he needs to focus on the game (or at least the story line) and stop getting off track as much. I also think that he has issues with SNM concerning their fluidity as partners, so they should practice casting in their offtime to replays.
- I think SNM is struggling, in order to remedy that, he should practice a bit more. Along with that, he should stop making side comments to "liven up" the surrounding story, let Whiplash do that, and have SNM focus on the micro/macro in game. Have SNM do analysis while Whiplash does some analysis, and have whiplash take a dominant role in color commentary.
- Don't make jokes outside of the game until you are not in game. Don't be Tastosis, you will never be Tastosis. In fact, though you may become as loved as a casting duo later on, for right now I'd love it if the jokes stayed when you guys are waiting on the game to start rather than in the game.
I enjoy the casting, and I don't see why people consider them amatuers when I've seen significantly worse out of other leagues and in other video games. I think if people followed this method, SNM and Whiplash could look through here without people jumping down their throats as much. Editors regularly give 10% positive feedback and 90% negative feedback, I think that if we were to do that, SNM and Whiplash could come in here and see what they are doing RIGHT and what they are doing WRONG. Much love guys, I enjoy SPL very much, and I like your casting quite a bit, though I realize (and so do you two) that it can improve . I disagree with everything you said except for the fact that SNM is struggling. He is solely responsible for me using the Korean stream instead. My feedback is that if you need people telling you how to do your job, then you are not qualified for it and should improve quickly or step aside before you get fired. Sheesh, I hope you're never a manager. You asking complete casters to emerge like Athena from the head of Zeus. It's an iterative process and both they and the casting profession as a whole will get better. Nah man, my expectations for a 'good' caster are pretty low: don't irritate the shit out of me. Whiplash is completely fine imo
On January 23 2013 09:04 docvoc wrote:- I think Whiplash is doing OK
On January 23 2013 09:12 Sluggy wrote:
I disagree with everything you said except for the fact that SNM is struggling.
?????
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Personally I like the fact that these casters sometimes derail into other topics; Artosis and Tasteless combo, and Wolf and Kahldor combo both do these things and I really enjoy their differences in personalities when their interests surface. Whiplash and Supernovamanic are bringing up off topic comments to fill in the downtime of standard game play. I think they should be commended for their interesting comments at least.
Secondly, I think out of all the casting duos out there, Whiplash and Supernovamanic understand Korean the best and therefore are at a big advantage when it comes to information provided to the viewers about the official rulings and such. Over the course of SPL there has been many instances where their knowledge of Korean has provided grateful information to the foreign viewers. If their Korean improves further, they can converse with the Kespa players much more and provide interesting triva which foreigners would otherwise be oblivious towards.
I hope Whiplash and Supernovamanic continue with their castings of SPL, they are doing really well considering their short partnership ( I don't know much about them besides the fact that Supernovamanic use to be a mod on many twitch chat rooms). The awkwardness in their comments sometimes shows their asynchronous combination; but their nerds, who hasn't been awkward towards even their close friends.
Whiplash and Supernovamanic, you're both doing a good job. gl hf
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I just want to say that I really do not enjoy the casting because of 1 thing only: the accent of SNM. I can't stand it, and since it's an English cast I really expect a very good English speaker who can pronounce and communicate clearly.
For example, let's look at news anchor, I have never seen a morning news with someone who can't even pronounce the words clearly and slur when he needs to speak fast. Imagine SNM and WHIPLASH doing the morning news on fox. Lol.
Professionalism is everything. If Proleague wants to be taken seriously then they need STANDARD.
But honestly, I think Kespa just don't care about English audience.
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On January 23 2013 15:41 Fearest wrote:
I just want to say that I really do not enjoy the casting because of 1 thing only: the accent of SNM. I can't stand it, and since it's an English cast I really expect a very good English speaker who can pronounce and communicate clearly.
For example, let's look at news anchor, I have never seen a morning news with someone who can't even pronounce the words clearly and slur when he needs to speak fast. Imagine SNM and WHIPLASH doing the morning news on fox. Lol.
Professionalism is everything. If Proleague wants to be taken seriously then they need STANDARD.
But honestly, I think Kespa just don't care about English audience.
Investing in a new audience is a daunting task, so they will choose to hire cheaper alternatives to test the waters. I'd say personally the feedback they'll get in terms of numbers would be justifiable in terms of market value, which may in turn allow them to invest more into the foreign audience so we might get better casters and stream quality in the future. However, with the emergence of LoL, I really feel like they wont spend that much more resources on SC2 streams, when they're probably going to earn 10x as much working on LoL broadcasts.
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Like the guy above me said, I don't think PL cares about the english cast at all. They just barely managed to pull together the bare minimum - two guys that can speak English.
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On January 23 2013 15:41 Fearest wrote:
I just want to say that I really do not enjoy the casting because of 1 thing only: the accent of SNM. I can't stand it, and since it's an English cast I really expect a very good English speaker who can pronounce and communicate clearly.
For example, let's look at news anchor, I have never seen a morning news with someone who can't even pronounce the words clearly and slur when he needs to speak fast. Imagine SNM and WHIPLASH doing the morning news on fox. Lol.
Professionalism is everything. If Proleague wants to be taken seriously then they need STANDARD.
But honestly, I think Kespa just don't care about English audience.
Rotterdam sometimes gets his tongue twisted during casts, but he still remains a great caster.
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U can't even split them. They cast together. Last night, they said something was going to happen and they were dead wrong like usual (as the roaches were moving out they were discussing the mistakes the zerg player was making...he won with a timing less than a minute later--pretty humorous i know, but discouraging.
still grade them a c- if not based purely on proleague itself
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Just to say something positive about SNM, I do like the Korean to English translations he does. I think if he improved his English a bit it would make a big difference.
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On January 23 2013 15:54 yyfpulls wrote:
Like the guy above me said, I don't think PL cares about the english cast at all. They just barely managed to pull together the bare minimum - two guys that can speak English.
Maybe they were misrepresented on their resumes/interviews? 
SNM - "I've been casting BW for a while now and have a pretty solid following (which by BW numbers, he kind of did) ANNNDDDDD I can translate from Korean to English on top of that."
KeSPA employee who doesn't give a fuck about the foreign scene and has no clue - "That sounds great! We could use a caster with a good following and knows our players. And you accept what we're offering you?! You're hired!!!!!"
Whiplash - "I was a SC2 pro early on and ran pretty deep at a couple MLGs. I was a grandmaster on the US ladder"
KeSPA employee who doesn't give a fuck about the foreign scene and has no clue - "Ran deep in MLG eh? Those are pretty tough from what I hear, AND you're grandmaster level? Shit, we could use you for analysis. Plus you accept what we're offering you! You're hired!!!!"
Maybe?
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That actually sounds like a perfectly reasonable conclusion, Dosey.
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They are ok, at least improving. Poor SNM got bashed too hard. Even just serving as a translator, he's worth to be there.
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Austria24422 Posts
I'm annoyed by the caster bashing more than their casting. Whiplash seems to somewhat know what's going on overall. SNM either has to step up his knowledge or his play by play casting. They've just been casting together for a short time, give them some time to grow into their roles.
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On January 23 2013 16:25 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 15:54 yyfpulls wrote:
Like the guy above me said, I don't think PL cares about the english cast at all. They just barely managed to pull together the bare minimum - two guys that can speak English. Maybe they were misrepresented on their resumes/interviews? SNM - "I've been casting BW for a while now and have a pretty solid following (which by BW numbers, he kind of did) ANNNDDDDD I can translate from Korean to English on top of that." KeSPA employee who doesn't give a fuck about the foreign scene and has no clue - "That sounds great! We could use a caster with a good following and knows our players. And you accept what we're offering you?! You're hired!!!!!" Whiplash - "I was a SC2 pro early on and ran pretty deep at a couple MLGs. I was a grandmaster on the US ladder" KeSPA employee who doesn't give a fuck about the foreign scene and has no clue - "Ran deep in MLG eh? Those are pretty tough from what I hear, AND you're grandmaster level? Shit, we could use you for analysis. Plus you accept what we're offering you! You're hired!!!!" Maybe?
This seems pretty accurate.
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EPT
