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On February 03 2018 11:46 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 11:34 cLutZ wrote:On February 03 2018 11:12 Plansix wrote:On February 03 2018 11:07 cLutZ wrote:On February 03 2018 10:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 03 2018 10:07 xDaunt wrote:
It is quite hilarious that all of you who so readily accepted the veracity of anonymous anti-Trump leaks that were reported in the press are having so much trouble accepting that a memo signed off on by congressmen is likely true.
And y’all are badly fooling yourselves if you think that the memo is a nothingburger. Not many people have even suggested that the memo is false. As has been said repeatedly, the memo does not attempt to invalidate any of the probable cause provided by the application. We don't know what the evidence is, but by omission Nunes does not contest the validity of any of those details. His entire issue is that the bias of a private investigator paid to investigate someone was not disclosed. The memo is a "nothingburger" because none of the accusations actually invalidate the FISA application or approval. I don't think its nothing, but we all should realize it was sold by Republicans as something that it is not. The actual meat of the memo is him publicly complaining about how mid-high level DOJ and FBI staff are impeding his investigation. The stuff about Steel is interesting, but is just confirmation of what we suspected since early 2017. The whole purpose was to make public a document that will get a lot of eyeballs that gets him more leverage over the FBI for his investigation. This is why there was such opposition to its release from the FBI despite it containing nothing that would affect any agents or operations. Nunes isn’t former law enforcement and clearly doesn’t want to wait for an investigation from the IG, which would be the correct route to take if he through there was FISA abuse. And he was supposed to have recused himself, but he never did. Edit: Yeah, Carter Page has to be one of the dumbest people involved with Trump. And it’s a competitive field. The "Nunes recused himself" is a pet peeve of mine because its not true. A series of unfounded ethics complaints about him were filed and he temporarily stepped down until the Congressional Ethics Office said those allegations were unfounded, which he always maintained. And I am not a Nunes guy. I Would prefer if he resigned and Gowdy or Rooney ran it, as they are better human beings. He made it seem like he did to duck criticism and press coverage. I don't trust the guy as far as I can throw him. He seems to have a disdain for process and I think he really buys this whole "Deep State" bullshit. He sees the FBI's denials as obstruction, but its an active investigation. If there is a real complaint about a FISA warrant, it should go to the inspector general and be handled by a bipartisan group. But he doesn't want to do that, hence the memo. Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 11:45 Taelshin wrote:
If this memo is a "nothing burger" to quote some people here, why did the dems fight so hard to not let it get released? ill admit its not an everything silver bullet kryptonite burger, just wondering what the scare was. Because there is a system in place for these types of issues and this memo isn't it. FISA warrants are secret and they built a whole system to allow congress to review them if they thought there was abuse. But its also secret and requires bipartisan review. Nunes didn't want to do that and just dumped the memo into the public for his own reasons. Edit; The memo specific states it has nothing to do with the Russian investigation being started. You may want to re-read it.
You keep referring to process. What process has he ignored?
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On February 03 2018 11:51 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 11:46 Plansix wrote:On February 03 2018 11:34 cLutZ wrote:On February 03 2018 11:12 Plansix wrote:On February 03 2018 11:07 cLutZ wrote:On February 03 2018 10:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 03 2018 10:07 xDaunt wrote:
It is quite hilarious that all of you who so readily accepted the veracity of anonymous anti-Trump leaks that were reported in the press are having so much trouble accepting that a memo signed off on by congressmen is likely true.
And y’all are badly fooling yourselves if you think that the memo is a nothingburger. Not many people have even suggested that the memo is false. As has been said repeatedly, the memo does not attempt to invalidate any of the probable cause provided by the application. We don't know what the evidence is, but by omission Nunes does not contest the validity of any of those details. His entire issue is that the bias of a private investigator paid to investigate someone was not disclosed. The memo is a "nothingburger" because none of the accusations actually invalidate the FISA application or approval. I don't think its nothing, but we all should realize it was sold by Republicans as something that it is not. The actual meat of the memo is him publicly complaining about how mid-high level DOJ and FBI staff are impeding his investigation. The stuff about Steel is interesting, but is just confirmation of what we suspected since early 2017. The whole purpose was to make public a document that will get a lot of eyeballs that gets him more leverage over the FBI for his investigation. This is why there was such opposition to its release from the FBI despite it containing nothing that would affect any agents or operations. Nunes isn’t former law enforcement and clearly doesn’t want to wait for an investigation from the IG, which would be the correct route to take if he through there was FISA abuse. And he was supposed to have recused himself, but he never did. Edit: Yeah, Carter Page has to be one of the dumbest people involved with Trump. And it’s a competitive field. The "Nunes recused himself" is a pet peeve of mine because its not true. A series of unfounded ethics complaints about him were filed and he temporarily stepped down until the Congressional Ethics Office said those allegations were unfounded, which he always maintained. And I am not a Nunes guy. I Would prefer if he resigned and Gowdy or Rooney ran it, as they are better human beings. He made it seem like he did to duck criticism and press coverage. I don't trust the guy as far as I can throw him. He seems to have a disdain for process and I think he really buys this whole "Deep State" bullshit. He sees the FBI's denials as obstruction, but its an active investigation. If there is a real complaint about a FISA warrant, it should go to the inspector general and be handled by a bipartisan group. But he doesn't want to do that, hence the memo. On February 03 2018 11:45 Taelshin wrote:
If this memo is a "nothing burger" to quote some people here, why did the dems fight so hard to not let it get released? ill admit its not an everything silver bullet kryptonite burger, just wondering what the scare was. Because there is a system in place for these types of issues and this memo isn't it. FISA warrants are secret and they built a whole system to allow congress to review them if they thought there was abuse. But its also secret and requires bipartisan review. Nunes didn't want to do that and just dumped the memo into the public for his own reasons. Edit; The memo specific states it has nothing to do with the Russian investigation being started. You may want to re-read it. You keep referring to process. What process has he ignored?
They make a complaint to the inspector general and then form a bipartisan group to review the FISA warrant and make a finding. It is done is secret and a finding is released. The Republican who held this position until 2015 talked about it and why he didn't approve of how Nunes handled it. Nunes decided to do it his way and do it with only the Republicans.
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On February 03 2018 11:51 Leporello wrote:
This memo might actually bigger news than I realize.
Carter Page was confident last October that Congress, our actual Congress, was going to purvey something that would exonerate him. To have knowledge about the FISA warrant beyond what was being reported, and to even elude to this memo coming through this ridiculous process, suggests he is in regular contact with GOP reps or their staff.
I honestly think it's likely there are multiple GOP caught in this surveillance.
Why would they ignore the DoJ and FBI, overrule their requests, deny them access, to release this memo... just to protect this goofball Carter Page? A desperate defense of Trump? The only thing that actually makes any fucking sense to me is the theory that there are more than Trump implicated by Carter Page. Because Carter Page has a big fucking mouth. But that's the thing, he's so unreliable, he could just be talking shit.
There has been speculation that there might be some house republicans who did some doggy shit around this time or during the election. Or just accepted money from groups they maybe shouldn't have.
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On February 03 2018 11:45 Taelshin wrote:
If this memo is a "nothing burger" to quote some people here, why did the dems fight so hard to not let it get released? ill admit its not an everything silver bullet kryptonite burger, just wondering what the scare was.
edit: I do think it looks pretty bad, and calls in to question the entire trump Russia nightmare.
Kind of, but not really. The entirety of the Trump Russia is mixed with his own stupid actions and lies afterwards. This memo, and the uncontested veracity of its principal claims, shows the FBI needs more accountability at the top, and the FISA authorization needs amending to bring more accountability to bear.
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On February 03 2018 11:30 Mohdoo wrote:
You guys remember when certain people told us how huge the uranium story was and how we just didn't understand how many heads were about to roll?
DoJ is on it now. Don’t worry.
And remember when Wray shitcanned McCabe this week? Wray said it wasn’t because of the memo. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that McCabe’s downfall has to do with Uranium One and not the FISA stuff. Regardless it’s pretty clear now that the IG is going to have a story to tell soon —- one that is likely going to disappoint y’all on the Left.
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On February 03 2018 11:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 11:51 Introvert wrote:On February 03 2018 11:46 Plansix wrote:On February 03 2018 11:34 cLutZ wrote:On February 03 2018 11:12 Plansix wrote:On February 03 2018 11:07 cLutZ wrote:On February 03 2018 10:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 03 2018 10:07 xDaunt wrote:
It is quite hilarious that all of you who so readily accepted the veracity of anonymous anti-Trump leaks that were reported in the press are having so much trouble accepting that a memo signed off on by congressmen is likely true.
And y’all are badly fooling yourselves if you think that the memo is a nothingburger. Not many people have even suggested that the memo is false. As has been said repeatedly, the memo does not attempt to invalidate any of the probable cause provided by the application. We don't know what the evidence is, but by omission Nunes does not contest the validity of any of those details. His entire issue is that the bias of a private investigator paid to investigate someone was not disclosed. The memo is a "nothingburger" because none of the accusations actually invalidate the FISA application or approval. I don't think its nothing, but we all should realize it was sold by Republicans as something that it is not. The actual meat of the memo is him publicly complaining about how mid-high level DOJ and FBI staff are impeding his investigation. The stuff about Steel is interesting, but is just confirmation of what we suspected since early 2017. The whole purpose was to make public a document that will get a lot of eyeballs that gets him more leverage over the FBI for his investigation. This is why there was such opposition to its release from the FBI despite it containing nothing that would affect any agents or operations. Nunes isn’t former law enforcement and clearly doesn’t want to wait for an investigation from the IG, which would be the correct route to take if he through there was FISA abuse. And he was supposed to have recused himself, but he never did. Edit: Yeah, Carter Page has to be one of the dumbest people involved with Trump. And it’s a competitive field. The "Nunes recused himself" is a pet peeve of mine because its not true. A series of unfounded ethics complaints about him were filed and he temporarily stepped down until the Congressional Ethics Office said those allegations were unfounded, which he always maintained. And I am not a Nunes guy. I Would prefer if he resigned and Gowdy or Rooney ran it, as they are better human beings. He made it seem like he did to duck criticism and press coverage. I don't trust the guy as far as I can throw him. He seems to have a disdain for process and I think he really buys this whole "Deep State" bullshit. He sees the FBI's denials as obstruction, but its an active investigation. If there is a real complaint about a FISA warrant, it should go to the inspector general and be handled by a bipartisan group. But he doesn't want to do that, hence the memo. On February 03 2018 11:45 Taelshin wrote:
If this memo is a "nothing burger" to quote some people here, why did the dems fight so hard to not let it get released? ill admit its not an everything silver bullet kryptonite burger, just wondering what the scare was. Because there is a system in place for these types of issues and this memo isn't it. FISA warrants are secret and they built a whole system to allow congress to review them if they thought there was abuse. But its also secret and requires bipartisan review. Nunes didn't want to do that and just dumped the memo into the public for his own reasons. Edit; The memo specific states it has nothing to do with the Russian investigation being started. You may want to re-read it. You keep referring to process. What process has he ignored? They make a complaint to the inspector general and then form a bipartisan group to review the FISA warrant and make a finding. It is done is secret and a finding is released. The Republican who held this position until 2015 talked about it and why he didn't approve of how Nunes handled it. Nunes decided to do it his way and do it with only the Republicans.
That isn't quite the same thing. You seemed to imply that Nunes did something outside of his purview, which would be odd considering his role as Congress' arm in this matter and their supenoa + oversight power.
edit: I mean the doj and fbi were stonewalling them, that seems worse.
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On February 03 2018 12:12 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 11:30 Mohdoo wrote:
You guys remember when certain people told us how huge the uranium story was and how we just didn't understand how many heads were about to roll? DoJ is on it now. Don’t worry. And remember when Wray shitcanned McCabe this week? Wray said it wasn’t because of the memo. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that McCabe’s downfall has to do with Uranium One and not the FISA stuff. Regardless it’s pretty clear now that the IG is going to have a story to tell soon —- one that is likely going to disappoint y’all on the Left.
I disagree. The IG report will likely be the true nothingburger with possibly a few people we dont know being forced into early retirement. Indeed, what is likely to happen is what has been happening for a long time: It will be revealed that mid -to-high level bureaucrats have a great mastery of the process and use said process to political ends, but not in a way that forms a smoking gun, thus it just goes back to being a political football.
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On February 03 2018 12:12 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 11:30 Mohdoo wrote:
You guys remember when certain people told us how huge the uranium story was and how we just didn't understand how many heads were about to roll? DoJ is on it now. Don’t worry. And remember when Wray shitcanned McCabe this week? Wray said it wasn’t because of the memo. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that McCabe’s downfall has to do with Uranium One and not the FISA stuff. Regardless it’s pretty clear now that the IG is going to have a story to tell soon —- one that is likely going to disappoint y’all on the Left.
Do you seriously believe these things that you type?
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On February 03 2018 12:17 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 12:12 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2018 11:30 Mohdoo wrote:
You guys remember when certain people told us how huge the uranium story was and how we just didn't understand how many heads were about to roll? DoJ is on it now. Don’t worry. And remember when Wray shitcanned McCabe this week? Wray said it wasn’t because of the memo. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that McCabe’s downfall has to do with Uranium One and not the FISA stuff. Regardless it’s pretty clear now that the IG is going to have a story to tell soon —- one that is likely going to disappoint y’all on the Left. I disagree. The IG report will likely be the true nothingburger with possibly a few people we dont know being forced into early retirement. Indeed, what is likely to happen is what has been happening for a long time: It will be revealed that mid -to-high level bureaucrats have a great mastery of the process and use said process to political ends, but not in a way that forms a smoking gun, thus it just goes back to being a political football.
Wray already hinted that stuff in the IG report prompted the firing of McCabe. Maybe it had to do with the email scandal and not Uranium One, but McCabe did something wrong.
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On February 03 2018 12:27 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 12:17 cLutZ wrote:On February 03 2018 12:12 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2018 11:30 Mohdoo wrote:
You guys remember when certain people told us how huge the uranium story was and how we just didn't understand how many heads were about to roll? DoJ is on it now. Don’t worry. And remember when Wray shitcanned McCabe this week? Wray said it wasn’t because of the memo. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that McCabe’s downfall has to do with Uranium One and not the FISA stuff. Regardless it’s pretty clear now that the IG is going to have a story to tell soon —- one that is likely going to disappoint y’all on the Left. I disagree. The IG report will likely be the true nothingburger with possibly a few people we dont know being forced into early retirement. Indeed, what is likely to happen is what has been happening for a long time: It will be revealed that mid -to-high level bureaucrats have a great mastery of the process and use said process to political ends, but not in a way that forms a smoking gun, thus it just goes back to being a political football. Wray already hinted that stuff in the IG report prompted the firing of McCabe. Maybe it had to do with the email scandal and not Uranium One, but McCabe did something wrong.
No one cares about Andrew McCabe except his wife. Anyone else caught up in the IG report will be even less important than him, although they might also throw some shade at Comey, which is deserved but also irrelevant.
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On February 03 2018 12:15 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 11:54 Plansix wrote:On February 03 2018 11:51 Introvert wrote:On February 03 2018 11:46 Plansix wrote:On February 03 2018 11:34 cLutZ wrote:On February 03 2018 11:12 Plansix wrote:On February 03 2018 11:07 cLutZ wrote:On February 03 2018 10:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 03 2018 10:07 xDaunt wrote:
It is quite hilarious that all of you who so readily accepted the veracity of anonymous anti-Trump leaks that were reported in the press are having so much trouble accepting that a memo signed off on by congressmen is likely true.
And y’all are badly fooling yourselves if you think that the memo is a nothingburger. Not many people have even suggested that the memo is false. As has been said repeatedly, the memo does not attempt to invalidate any of the probable cause provided by the application. We don't know what the evidence is, but by omission Nunes does not contest the validity of any of those details. His entire issue is that the bias of a private investigator paid to investigate someone was not disclosed. The memo is a "nothingburger" because none of the accusations actually invalidate the FISA application or approval. I don't think its nothing, but we all should realize it was sold by Republicans as something that it is not. The actual meat of the memo is him publicly complaining about how mid-high level DOJ and FBI staff are impeding his investigation. The stuff about Steel is interesting, but is just confirmation of what we suspected since early 2017. The whole purpose was to make public a document that will get a lot of eyeballs that gets him more leverage over the FBI for his investigation. This is why there was such opposition to its release from the FBI despite it containing nothing that would affect any agents or operations. Nunes isn’t former law enforcement and clearly doesn’t want to wait for an investigation from the IG, which would be the correct route to take if he through there was FISA abuse. And he was supposed to have recused himself, but he never did. Edit: Yeah, Carter Page has to be one of the dumbest people involved with Trump. And it’s a competitive field. The "Nunes recused himself" is a pet peeve of mine because its not true. A series of unfounded ethics complaints about him were filed and he temporarily stepped down until the Congressional Ethics Office said those allegations were unfounded, which he always maintained. And I am not a Nunes guy. I Would prefer if he resigned and Gowdy or Rooney ran it, as they are better human beings. He made it seem like he did to duck criticism and press coverage. I don't trust the guy as far as I can throw him. He seems to have a disdain for process and I think he really buys this whole "Deep State" bullshit. He sees the FBI's denials as obstruction, but its an active investigation. If there is a real complaint about a FISA warrant, it should go to the inspector general and be handled by a bipartisan group. But he doesn't want to do that, hence the memo. On February 03 2018 11:45 Taelshin wrote:
If this memo is a "nothing burger" to quote some people here, why did the dems fight so hard to not let it get released? ill admit its not an everything silver bullet kryptonite burger, just wondering what the scare was. Because there is a system in place for these types of issues and this memo isn't it. FISA warrants are secret and they built a whole system to allow congress to review them if they thought there was abuse. But its also secret and requires bipartisan review. Nunes didn't want to do that and just dumped the memo into the public for his own reasons. Edit; The memo specific states it has nothing to do with the Russian investigation being started. You may want to re-read it. You keep referring to process. What process has he ignored? They make a complaint to the inspector general and then form a bipartisan group to review the FISA warrant and make a finding. It is done is secret and a finding is released. The Republican who held this position until 2015 talked about it and why he didn't approve of how Nunes handled it. Nunes decided to do it his way and do it with only the Republicans. That isn't quite the same thing. You seemed to imply that Nunes did something outside of his purview, which would be odd considering his role as Congress' arm in this matter and their supenoa + oversight power. edit: I mean the doj and fbi were stonewalling them, that seems worse.
Or they were complying with what they could and Nunes wasn’t happy. His one committee is one of many that the FBI and Justice answer to.
And I didn’t make it seems like this is outside his purview. The Republican who Nunes replaced due to GOP rules on chairmanship said that this is not how a FISA warrant is investigated. It really isn’t that complex. People who had his job before and are in his party disagree with how he is handling it. That it is not how this was handled in the past and not the process they used to assure bipartisanship and protect the trust in the process.
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+ Show Spoiler +https://twitter.com/rebeccaballhaus/status/959637869479579648
WSJ confirms. In case you think the WaPo is Fake News.
Breaking this down is extraordinary: This is essentially Devin Nunes, who was supposed to be recused from the investigation, using information he hasn't seen, to essentially overrule the opinion of multiple FISA courts, and actually lie about information pertaining to the warrant's ruling.
For the sake of Carter Page? Ignoring the DoJ's public requests. Going behind his committee at times. To disparage the ruling of multiple FISA courts. To lie about it. For... Carter Page?
This is extraordinary. There is no way this is just about Carter Page, who was under surveillance long before the dossier. This is about the people who talk to Carter Page. Why else would they be this desperate?
I don't say desperate to be disparaging. This is plainly not normal.
Apparently xDaunt's law-school missed the chapter on separation of powers. These courts make their own rulings. That's not Nunes job to judge them.
And why is he even doing that? Because Carter Page is a victim? Keep selling this shit. It's really... it looks fucking terrible the more anyone looks at it.
But try, try again.
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Fucking knew it. The court new it was opposition research and of Steele’s political bias. They just didn’t know it was the DNC or the RNC because that shouldn’t impact the ruling. This memo is the wet fart of bombs.
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The key bit:
The Justice Department made “ample disclosure of relevant, material facts” to the court that revealed “the research was being paid for by a political entity,” said one official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the matter’s sensitivity.
“No thinking person who read any of these applications would come to any other conclusion but that” the work was being undertaken “at the behest of people with a partisan aim and that it was being done in opposition to Trump,” the official said.
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On February 03 2018 12:59 ticklishmusic wrote:The key bit: Show nested quote +The Justice Department made “ample disclosure of relevant, material facts” to the court that revealed “the research was being paid for by a political entity,” said one official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the matter’s sensitivity.
“No thinking person who read any of these applications would come to any other conclusion but that” the work was being undertaken “at the behest of people with a partisan aim and that it was being done in opposition to Trump,” the official said.
This part afterwards is also necessary reading
Former senior Justice Department officials who handled applications for wiretap warrants under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) say that such applications typically include dozens of pages and undergo rigorous vetting.
“We didn’t put in every fact, but we put in enough facts to allow the court to judge bias and motive and credibility of the sourcing,” said Matthew G. Olsen, former deputy assistant attorney general for national security who oversaw the Justice Department’s FISA program from 2006 to 2009.
The Republican memo, he said, “is unconvincing and one-sided. It raises more questions than it answers.”
If the FISA application to surveil Page referred to funding by political opponents “or included similar references that revealed a motivation against then-candidate Trump, even if they did not name the DNC . . . then the FISA applications would be fine,” said David Kris, a FISA expert who led the Justice Department’s National Security Division from 2009 to 2011.
The memo left other national security experts underwhelmed.
“My basic reaction was, that’s what this was all about?” said Stephen I. Vladeck, a law professor at the University of Texas at Austin. “I was expecting something that was actually damning,” Vladeck said. “I think the only thing that has been damned was this whole controversy.”
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I feel like these people are dense. It is a political memo. The point is to combat leaks that are partisan in the opposite fashion (Schiff is basically CNN's only source for any news) and to get the FBI to stop slow walking things.
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On February 03 2018 12:05 Danglars wrote:
This memo, and the uncontested veracity of its principal claims.
That's quite a claim.
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On February 03 2018 12:52 Plansix wrote:
Fucking knew it. The court new it was opposition research and of Steele’s political bias. They just didn’t know it was the DNC or the RNC because that shouldn’t impact the ruling. This memo is the wet fart of bombs.
Exactly. I suspected the same. The part of the memo that goes:
"Neither the initial application in October 2016, nor any of the renewals, disclose or reference the role of the DNC, Clinton campaign, or any party/campaign in funding Steele’s efforts, even though the political origins of the Steele dossier were then known to senior DOJ and FBI officials.
b) The initial FISA application notes Steele was working for a named U.S. person, but does not name Fusion GPS and principal Glenn Simpson, who was paid by a U.S. law firm (Perkins Coie) representing the DNC (even though it was known by DOJ at the time that political actors were involved with the Steele dossier). The application does not mention Steele was ultimately working on behalf of—and paid by—the DNC and Clinton campaign, or that the FBI had separately authorized payment to Steele for the same information."
All the stuff there about the FISA court not being told that the DNC / Clinton campaign was the ultimate source of money paid for the memo was very carefully wordsmithed. The court was told that a political actor of some kind paid for the memo. The application just didn't specify if it was the RNC or DNC. Of course, the memo omitted that detail. Wonder what else is missing.
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So at what time exactly will the universe be ending as a result of this memo? I thought it would have happened by now.
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EPT
