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On January 15 2018 23:22 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2018 19:51 Gorsameth wrote:On January 15 2018 12:02 Archeon wrote:On January 15 2018 06:36 Gorsameth wrote:On January 15 2018 06:29 Archeon wrote:
@zlefin:
Thank you for the summary and the clarification. Many democracies I know have direct elections of most/all members of the parliament and let the parliament vote the leading members of the government. I didn't know that the USA's vote of parliament and president are fairly independent, but the USA are one of the oldest modern democracies and afaik didn't reform their voting processes since forever, so deadlocks don't come as a complete surprise. Not that other systems are necessarily more stable or active.
So I guess Obama couldn't force reelections. I read that the reps went pretty partisan, but as mentioned before I've started to doubt most of what I read in our media about republicans. Out of curiosity, why do you doubt your media's reporting on Republicans? Because I haven't read a single bad thing about Obama except for the Snowden affair, which was downplayed and for which the media mostly held Bush responsible, despite Obama having a large influence. In the meantime pretty much every article I read in Spiegel, Focus, Welt, FAZ mentioning republicans portrays them as homophobic, racist, nationalists who are conservative enough to work for the Vatican City State. Before I started watching the original speeches I thought Hillary was a decent candidate, afterwards I deemed the crisis the democratic party is in as larger than the one our SPD is in. And our political party correlation tester tells me I should vote liberal>social>>conservative>national. So look at the facts, the policies that Republicans are pushing and enacting. Red states fighting tooth and nail against gay marriage. The constant attempts at repression of black voters by red states. Their tax bill full of temporary cuts for everyone to sell it and permanent cuts for the rich, complete with provisions tailored to individual congressmen to literally buy their vote. I'm more then willing to believe the media is biased for Democrats and that they downplay some of things that happen. But you don't need to demonize Republicans to make them look bad, you just have to look at their actions for that. Even the US conservatives in this thread don't believe there are any 'good' Republicans left. Danglers (I think it was him, my apologies if it wasn't) could only name 1 (Rand Paul) and basically considered the rest of the party to be RINO"s (Republican in name only) there to just line their own pockets. No, that was not me.
It was xDaunt, you didn't want to touch the "who isn't a RINO?" line of questioning.
@Gor Here's some of the posts if people want to remember the reference.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-mega-thread?page=9058#181141
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-mega-thread?page=9118#182357
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United States24761 Posts
It was xdaunt who was asked about who was a Rhino ( ah gah beat me to it). And stealthblue, that is a repost from one page back.
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Yeah I had to be one or the other, didn't have time to search up the relevant conversation (hence my disclaimer).
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Democrats should just scrap the theatrics of primaries.
This week, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee announced its support for seven more congressional candidates as part of its Red to Blue program, an effort to flip congressional districts with open seats currently held by Republicans. According to the DCCC website, the endorsements include “organizational and fundraising support to help them continue to run strong campaigns.”
But the DCCC’s support comes before the candidates have even won their primary races, in many cases against progressive candidates. Despite the competitive primaries many of their backed candidates face, the DCCC is pouring resources and funding into their campaigns before voters can even decide on who to nominate.
In contrast to these endorsements, the DCCC sent out a memo to all Democratic Congressional candidates in December 2017, that stipulated every candidate must refrain from attacking other candidates in primary races, and go on a unity tour after the primary election ends.
For Utah’s 4th Congressional District, the DCCC formally endorsed former Salt Lake City Mayor Ben McAdams, though he currently faces three Democratic primary challengers. “I would like to point out that Ben McAdams currently has no public platform and has not given the constituents of this district a reason to support him other than he's not Mia Love,” Tom Taylor, a progressive Democrat running in Utah’s 4th District, told the Real News. “If he or the DCCC think they can beat Mia Love on name recognition alone, they are mistaken.”
In Illinois, the DCCC chose to support State Prosecutor Brendan Kelly ahead of the Democratic primary, where Kelly will face two other Democrats vying for a seat in Illinois’ 12th District. “The DCCC has been recruiting nationwide, moderate/centrist candidates. It’s a policy which they believe will attract moderate Republican voters to switch sides,” David Bequette, one of Kelly’s Democratic primary opponents, wrote in an email to the Real News Network. “Unfortunately we believe that it further ignores progressives and minority voters that are looking for candidates to get behind and participate in the process with. Any pre-primary endorsement by the establishment in contested races is disappointing and misses an opportunity for Dems to fire up the base with early primary participation.”
Source
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On January 16 2018 00:28 farvacola wrote:
What a stupid move...
Sooner or later people on the left will realize the Democratic party (as an institution) is a lost cause and our only hope is to replace them altogether.
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Local elections should remain local elections. This isn’t the 1990s, they can’t control the national party make up with money. People are too aware of that shit now a days. They are idiots for trying. Though I do appreciate they aren’t being shy about saying it now. Cuts through a lot of the bullshit.
On January 16 2018 00:38 GreenHorizons wrote:Sooner or later people on the left will realize the Democratic party (as an institution) is a lost cause and our only hope is to replace them altogether.
That is the struggle. It is impossible to replace them all, so how many do you need to replace? And if you do, how do you prevent the new group from being just like the current DNC, where people are told to tow the line or have funds cut?
And then there is the other reality that without Republican buy in, anything legislation passed is just something for them to rail against for the next 10 years.
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National political figures/ entities will always stick their noses into local elections where they're not necessarily needed or wanted. Sanders endorsed a guy in my city's mayoral race who kinda sucked, for example. Dude was a straight up conspiracy theorist.
It's lame as hell no matter who does it.
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I don't see a problem with endorsing but funding is bad.
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On January 16 2018 00:38 GreenHorizons wrote:Sooner or later people on the left will realize the Democratic party (as an institution) is a lost cause and our only hope is to replace them altogether.
offer an actual viable and better replacement and i'd be happy to.
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On January 16 2018 01:01 Velr wrote:
I don't see a problem with endorsing but funding is bad.
It's also very much an issue of timing.
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On January 16 2018 01:02 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2018 00:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 16 2018 00:28 farvacola wrote:
What a stupid move... Sooner or later people on the left will realize the Democratic party (as an institution) is a lost cause and our only hope is to replace them altogether. offer an actual viable and better replacement and i'd be happy to.
As if viable alternatives are to manifest from the ether rather than people like yourself recognizing it's on you as well as me to get us one.
On January 16 2018 00:59 ticklishmusic wrote:
National political figures/ entities will always stick their noses into local elections where they're not necessarily needed or wanted. Sanders endorsed a guy in my city's mayoral race who kinda sucked, for example. Dude was a straight up conspiracy theorist.
It's lame as hell no matter who does it.
I'm curious what conspiracies you're referring to?
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On January 16 2018 01:15 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2018 01:02 zlefin wrote:On January 16 2018 00:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 16 2018 00:28 farvacola wrote:
What a stupid move... Sooner or later people on the left will realize the Democratic party (as an institution) is a lost cause and our only hope is to replace them altogether. offer an actual viable and better replacement and i'd be happy to. As if viable alternatives are to manifest from the ether rather than people like yourself recognizing it's on you as well as me to get us one.
indeed, that's my point, it requires work, and i'm not seeing the prep work being done to actually establish a viable replacement that won't end up having the same problems as the dem party institution.
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On January 16 2018 01:19 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2018 01:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 16 2018 01:02 zlefin wrote:On January 16 2018 00:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 16 2018 00:28 farvacola wrote:
What a stupid move... Sooner or later people on the left will realize the Democratic party (as an institution) is a lost cause and our only hope is to replace them altogether. offer an actual viable and better replacement and i'd be happy to. As if viable alternatives are to manifest from the ether rather than people like yourself recognizing it's on you as well as me to get us one. indeed, that's my point, it requires work, and i'm not seeing the prep work being done to actually establish a viable replacement that won't end up having the same problems as the dem party institution.
And that's my point, you're looking and critiquing from the sidelines, instead of working.
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United States24761 Posts
GH can you make an actionable and non-vague recommendation for what the liberal posters should go do in the best interest of the country? I think that is needed otherwise it ends up being you criticizing them from the sidelines only.
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On January 16 2018 01:21 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2018 01:19 zlefin wrote:On January 16 2018 01:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 16 2018 01:02 zlefin wrote:On January 16 2018 00:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 16 2018 00:28 farvacola wrote:
What a stupid move... Sooner or later people on the left will realize the Democratic party (as an institution) is a lost cause and our only hope is to replace them altogether. offer an actual viable and better replacement and i'd be happy to. As if viable alternatives are to manifest from the ether rather than people like yourself recognizing it's on you as well as me to get us one. indeed, that's my point, it requires work, and i'm not seeing the prep work being done to actually establish a viable replacement that won't end up having the same problems as the dem party institution. And that's my point, you're looking and critiquing from the sidelines, instead of working.
working on WHAT? again, you need to provide an actual viable proposal; I can spend all day digging a ditch, but it won't help the political situation; without a plan, work accomplishes nothing. it takes more than a dream of things being better.
and I am working on it, not much though, because nobody listens to me anyways.
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The british had that idea a few decades ago GH. It caused the Thatcher years. Do you want Thatcher years to happen in the US?
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On January 16 2018 01:26 micronesia wrote:
GH can you make an actionable and non-vague recommendation for what the liberal posters should go do in the best interest of the country? I think that is needed otherwise it ends up being you criticizing them from the sidelines only.
Find a political group/movement on the left that isn't the Democrats and support them (or make one). Stop perpetuating the "it's Democrats or Republicans, you have no other option" mythos. Engage in your local disadvantaged communities by asking what they need instead of telling them. Stop supporting liberal imperialism. Stop caping for the FBI.
I mean I could go on, but I think people knew the answers before the question was asked.
because nobody listens to me anyways.
In no small part because you intentionally avoid saying anything of merit.
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The best thing liberal posters can do it get involved in local elections, IMO. Most political activism revolves around public schools and town meetings. And that is where you find people who can have their minds changed or at least broadened.
Edit: The democratic party can be changed from within. It happened before and it can happen again. I’ve always said that the smartest thing Bernie ever did was run as a Democrat. But its hard, thankless work that will never end.
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whatever you want to believe gh, but you haven't provided a decent proposal, merely a bad proposal. and working toward a bad proposal won't accomplish anything.
you assume that if it's not the democrats, this alternate group will be magically better, rather than simply having the same problems occur. you're no taddressin the structural issues.
many people are unable to recognize which ideas have merit and which do not. and they thus blithely follow meritless ideas; at least I don' tdo that 
and I say a great deal of things of merit, people just do not recognize them as such. and a person can be terribly unconvincing even if everything they say has great merit.
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EPT
