EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 9661
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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farvacola
United States18856 Posts
On January 11 2018 23:16 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: That's the weirdest nonsense I think I've read all week. Like... wut? It's that rush of dopamine, duh. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On January 11 2018 23:14 farvacola wrote: This is why baby's first psych takes on those whom one disagrees with should be heavily discounted. "Feeling smart gives them a rush of dopamine," typed the poster agreeing with another who felt similarly, apparently immune from the logic of the point just made or aware of the fact that such a sentiment is, in fact, rather stupid. Yeh, me completely disagreeing with him is in fact me agreeing with him. Here is some shitty pop literature on the effects of social media and dopamine: + Show Spoiler + Probably should have worded it better though. I don't think it's arguable that it feels good being smart. On January 11 2018 23:15 zlefin wrote: yeah, i'm still not seein the equivalance; they're simply NOT equivalent cases. one is what the president eats; the other is an official policy statement. also, the reporting i've seen cited on the f-52 thing simply mention it factually, and note that some people on the internet are having fun with it. i'm no tseeing it being "championed" or pushed heavily in the way some of hte obama nonsense was. and again, they're simply not equivalent cases to cover. can you cite some actual media reporting of the f-52 that is problematic? I'd say that calling Trump's gaffe on f-52s as official policy statement to be ridiculous. I thought the comparison was obvious by the way, neither of them should have been reported on at all beyond the absolute minimum. | ||
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oBlade
United States6028 Posts
On January 11 2018 23:06 Gorsameth wrote: Right, its totally not their actions but a deluded need for a devil figure... I feel sorry for you if you actually believe that. I am not saying support of someone is mandatory. But it's possible and should be encouraged to disagree with and dislike your elected officials without yourself being deranged about it. | ||
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Sadist
United States7327 Posts
https://mobile.twitter.com/RGjournalist/status/951102206325002240/video/1 | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On January 11 2018 23:27 oBlade wrote: I am not saying support of someone is mandatory. But it's possible and should be encouraged to disagree with and dislike your elected officials without yourself being deranged about it. It's also possible for them to not, themselves, be deranged. And should they be, it is cause for a lot of concern. Maybe, just maybe when you actively and intentionally run a highly divisive, aggressive, anti-truth deranged campaign and presidency, people are going to have strong reactions to that and make a big deal out of every little thing, because that is exactly the media environment you have run on, cultivated and taken advantage of. Trump made his bed, now he can lie in it. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On January 11 2018 23:34 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: It's also possible for them to not, themselves, be deranged. And should they be, it is cause for a lot of concern. Maybe, just maybe when you actively and intentionally run a highly divisive, aggressive, anti-truth deranged campaign and presidency, people are going to have strong reactions to that and make a big deal out of every little thing, because that is exactly the media environment you have run on, cultivated and taken advantage of. Trump made his bed, now he can lie in it. Do you think it was just Trump that made the bed? What happened to going high when they went low? Or were you a Bernie supporter? Can he still win? | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On January 11 2018 23:32 bo1b wrote: How do geniuses like that become politicians? Decades of anti-intellectualism and erosion of education leading to a voter base that will happily support them? Do we need to go dig up that wonderful GOP planning document that called for opposition to teaching critical thinking skills in schools? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 11 2018 23:37 bo1b wrote: Do you think it was just Trump that made the bed? What happened to going high when they went low? Or were you a Bernie supporter? Can he still win? The perspective of a lot of left leaning folks I talk with is that the high ground is pretty worthless in the era of Trump. That you can’t really win on the high ground when you opponent has no shame. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12427 Posts
On January 11 2018 23:27 oBlade wrote: I am not saying support of someone is mandatory. But it's possible and should be encouraged to disagree with and dislike your elected officials without yourself being deranged about it. In case you actually don't realize that, we do disagree with people without being "deranged" about it. For example, I don't agree with liberals on a lot of stuff, and yet I will treat them better than I'll treat someone who still supports Trump today. All positions are not equal. The way I treat people who still support Trump is not evidence of how I treat people who disagree with me in general, it's evidence of the way I treat Trump supporters. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On January 11 2018 23:38 Plansix wrote: Agreed. Trump ran an entire campaign based on grievance and division. That burned through most of the good that his opponents had. People should stick to calling out bad behavior in their own camp, rather than telling people they disagree with to shape up. It isn’t a good look in 2017. From someone who really doesn't have much of a horse in this race, I find this a fairly laughable concept. Taking the low ground while simultaneously being self righteous, how good of you. The perspective of a lot of left leaning folks I talk with is that the high ground is pretty worthless in the era of Trump. That you can’t really win on the high ground when you opponent has no shame. This is the attitude I really have a problem with, and have been unsuccessful in communicating over the last few pages. Moreover I completely believe you can win on the high ground in the era of Trump. The left gives up so much ammo to those that oppose them with the combination of self righteousness and hypocrisy. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 11 2018 23:41 bo1b wrote: From someone who really doesn't have much of a horse in this race, I find this a fairly laughable concept. Taking the low ground while simultaneously being self righteous, how good of you. The funny part about this is that I’m saying people who care about bridging divisions in the country should stick to addressing bad behaviors in their own camp. Simply because those people are more likely to listen. edit: I don’t believe that we can take the high road yet. One of the problems with modern US politics is that people treated it to much a polite sport, rather than something that really impacts people’s lives. We can get back there, but the reason we celebrate polite civil discourse is because it avoided the rage and anger that people like Trump generate. We can’t get back there until both sides reject the grievance based politics that Trump champions. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12427 Posts
On January 11 2018 23:41 bo1b wrote: This is the attitude I really have a problem with, and have been unsuccessful in communicating over the last few pages. Moreover I completely believe you can win on the high ground in the era of Trump. The left gives up so much ammo to those that oppose them with the combination of self righteousness and hypocrisy. If the specific target that we're trying to "win" against is someone who still supports Trump today, I'm genuinely interested in how you think we can achieve that. | ||
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Sadist
United States7327 Posts
On January 11 2018 23:38 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Decades of anti-intellectualism and erosion of education leading to a voter base that will happily support them? Do we need to go dig up that wonderful GOP planning document that called for opposition to teaching critical thinking skills in schools? Its ugly but a lot of these people want to remain ignorant IMO. I know the school systems arent the best but this is a result of poor parenting and being isolated from opposing people/world views. Of course this dipshit is from West Michigan too ;( | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10872 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On January 11 2018 23:37 bo1b wrote: Do you think it was just Trump that made the bed? What happened to going high when they went low? Or were you a Bernie supporter? Can he still win? Trump was the biggest name behind the birther conspiracy. He isn't solely responsible, but I couldn't think of a nicer guy such a turnabout could happen to  Also screw that saying, you don't take the high road against people actively trying to destroy welfare, the environment, free press and any obstruction to outright oligarchy. You get them the hell out of power. You also haven't at all addressed the main point. People are reacting strongly to Trump because of what he has done, in particular, his total disregard for reality. Making a mistake like this in an official statement fits perfectly with his prior carelessness when it comes to facts. If he himself hadn't created the narrative that he lives in a different universe, this incident wouldn't be treated as another piece of that narrative. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 11 2018 23:47 bo1b wrote: I don't even have a camp. The politics on my home turf I absolutely call people out on, because it's important. This is all just the opinion of an outsider looking in to what looks like a predominantly left leaning forum. You are talking to someone who often engaged conservatives on this forum and who’s brother is a Trump supporter. I’m interested in bridging gaps. I have real reason to want to take the high road. But there is a real disconnect between supporting Trump and the harm that his administration has done or is trying to do. It took my own brother a full year to understand that his support for Trump and the Republicans was supporting putting my wife’s healthcare at risk. The whole push for civility has merit. But it is often used as a way to tamp down the real anger caused by some political policies and shield people from the realities of what they advocate for. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On January 11 2018 23:49 Nebuchad wrote: If the specific target that we're trying to "win" against is someone who still supports Trump today, I'm genuinely interested in how you think we can achieve that. Consistent high quality reporting and presenting a candidate who appeals to those in the center, bonus points for a lick of charisma and someone who doesn't go out of their way to pander at all costs. There is a reason that this election had such low voter turnout. If Trump was unbeatable he wouldn't have barely won and in fact lost the popular election. If that white house insider book is to believed at all, not even Trump expected to win. So yeh, I completely believe that you can win without going as low as you can. | ||
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