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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On December 14 2017 09:30 xDaunt wrote:
You know, you need to get over yourself and accept that slavery was pretty much a universal institution globally for most of human history. It was one of the few constants among all cultures globally up until just a few hundred years ago (with few exceptions). So pointing out the West's history of slavery isn't particularly illuminating for the purposes of our current discussion.
You're the one who brought it up in the first place:
On December 14 2017 09:06 xDaunt wrote:
Do you really want to rely upon dictatorial states that were entirely based and built upon the institution of slavery for your rebuttal?
Everyone else is just pointing out that their Western contemporary civilizations at the time also practiced slavery and that the use of slaves is not some differentiator between the North African civilizations and Western civilizations in that era like you made it out to be.
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On December 14 2017 09:38 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 09:23 Sermokala wrote:On December 14 2017 09:18 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 09:09 Sermokala wrote:On December 14 2017 09:06 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 08:53 TheTenthDoc wrote:On December 14 2017 08:37 Plansix wrote:On December 14 2017 08:29 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 08:22 Plansix wrote:On December 14 2017 08:17 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
A quick look at the current state of post-colonial Africa suggests that Kipling may have had a point. At this point this post by you doesn’t even shock me. And if we hadn’t spent well over 200 years fucking with Africa, I might agree. But imperialism leaves it mark. So how would you explain away the shittiness of pre-colonial Africa? Its fucking super hot there and its hard to grow crops. The same with some regions of North America pre colonies, except harsh winters were the real killer. Civilizations advanced at different rates depending on the environment they existed in. That super dope regions where Greece and Rome started, prime early civilization real estate. That land by the river in Egypt, also prime early civilization real estate. On December 14 2017 08:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 14 2017 08:29 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 08:22 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
At this point this post by you doesn’t even shock me. And if we hadn’t spent well over 200 years fucking with Africa, I might agree. But imperialism leaves it mark. So how would you explain away the shittiness of pre-colonial Africa? Like compared to the Dark Ages of Europe? The dark ages were super shit. People overlook that era and the 20 crusades just to export warlords and assholes to the south. I don't think xDaunt thinks Egypt counts as Africa. That or he doesn't believe the Code of Hammurabi was a big deal. Do you really want to rely upon dictatorial states that were entirely based and built upon the institution of slavery for your rebuttal? Buddy I got to let you know about these people called kings and Caesars. Good thing no one is holding up Rome or the kingdoms of medieval Europe as paragons of Western civilization! Buddy man. We really really do. The adaptive culture that allowed us to capitalist on Chinese advancements as they came over the silk road and the ancient writings that the Romans held during the dark ages to spark the Renaissance is all Rome all the time. For as advanced as Rome was for its time, no one is going to argue that it represents the pinnacle of Western civilization. It was merely a stepping stone for the larger things to come. Humanity has advanced far, far beyond where it was in Rome 2000 years ago. This is why it is ridiculous (as I keep pointing out) to raise as examples all of these pre-industrial societies in rebuttal to my arguments.
Africa didn't have the silk road, you are correct on that front. The lower EU lucked out. And the UK lucked out when people invaded with horses. Horses were fucking dope. Africa didn't have horses. All the cool animals in Africa could fucking murder a human super easy. They didn't have cool dogs.
You do know that the reason Western Civilization didn't have any "primitive cultures" like Africa or North America is because they all got wiped out, right? The Picts didn't make it.
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On December 14 2017 09:40 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 09:30 xDaunt wrote:
You know, you need to get over yourself and accept that slavery was pretty much a universal institution globally for most of human history. It was one of the few constants among all cultures globally up until just a few hundred years ago (with few exceptions). So pointing out the West's history of slavery isn't particularly illuminating for the purposes of our current discussion. You're the one who brought it up in the first place: Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 09:06 xDaunt wrote:
Do you really want to rely upon dictatorial states that were entirely based and built upon the institution of slavery for your rebuttal? Everyone else is just pointing out that their Western contemporary civilizations at the time also practiced slavery and that the use of slaves is not some differentiator between the North African civilizations and Western civilizations in that era like you made it out to be.
You need to follow the argument better than this. My original point was that pre-colonial Africa was a shitty place. In response to that, TheTenthDoc raised the examples of Egypt and Bablyon, to which I pointed out by way of a rhetorical question that dictatorial slaves states aren't exactly examples of Africa not being a shitty place (notwithstanding the fact that Babylon wasn't African). In response to that, various people (including GH) pointed out the very obvious fact that Western nations had slavery, too, leading to my responsive post to GH that that particularly point isn't really apropos to anything.
So please, take sometime to understand the argument before calling me out.
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On December 14 2017 09:30 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 09:20 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 14 2017 09:18 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 09:09 Sermokala wrote:On December 14 2017 09:06 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 08:53 TheTenthDoc wrote:On December 14 2017 08:37 Plansix wrote:On December 14 2017 08:29 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 08:22 Plansix wrote:On December 14 2017 08:17 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
A quick look at the current state of post-colonial Africa suggests that Kipling may have had a point. At this point this post by you doesn’t even shock me. And if we hadn’t spent well over 200 years fucking with Africa, I might agree. But imperialism leaves it mark. So how would you explain away the shittiness of pre-colonial Africa? Its fucking super hot there and its hard to grow crops. The same with some regions of North America pre colonies, except harsh winters were the real killer. Civilizations advanced at different rates depending on the environment they existed in. That super dope regions where Greece and Rome started, prime early civilization real estate. That land by the river in Egypt, also prime early civilization real estate. On December 14 2017 08:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 14 2017 08:29 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 08:22 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
At this point this post by you doesn’t even shock me. And if we hadn’t spent well over 200 years fucking with Africa, I might agree. But imperialism leaves it mark. So how would you explain away the shittiness of pre-colonial Africa? Like compared to the Dark Ages of Europe? The dark ages were super shit. People overlook that era and the 20 crusades just to export warlords and assholes to the south. I don't think xDaunt thinks Egypt counts as Africa. That or he doesn't believe the Code of Hammurabi was a big deal. Do you really want to rely upon dictatorial states that were entirely based and built upon the institution of slavery for your rebuttal? Buddy I got to let you know about these people called kings and Caesars. Good thing no one is holding up Rome or the kingdoms of medieval Europe as paragons of Western civilization! Except Western Civilization... We all know the Pyramids weren't built by slaves (or Jews) right? You know, you need to get over yourself and accept that slavery was pretty much a universal institution globally for most of human history. It was one of the few constants among all cultures globally up until just a few hundred years ago (with few exceptions). So pointing out the West's history of slavery isn't particularly illuminating for the purposes of our current discussion.
The hell?
Who Built the Pyramids?
Not slaves. Archaeologist Mark Lehner, digging deeper, discovers a city of privileged workers.
Source
At this point I honestly can't tell if you're this ignorant or if you're intentionally saying stupid things in the theme of the excerpt I posted.
On December 14 2017 09:47 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 09:40 TheYango wrote:On December 14 2017 09:30 xDaunt wrote:
You know, you need to get over yourself and accept that slavery was pretty much a universal institution globally for most of human history. It was one of the few constants among all cultures globally up until just a few hundred years ago (with few exceptions). So pointing out the West's history of slavery isn't particularly illuminating for the purposes of our current discussion. You're the one who brought it up in the first place: On December 14 2017 09:06 xDaunt wrote:
Do you really want to rely upon dictatorial states that were entirely based and built upon the institution of slavery for your rebuttal? Everyone else is just pointing out that their Western contemporary civilizations at the time also practiced slavery and that the use of slaves is not some differentiator between the North African civilizations and Western civilizations in that era like you made it out to be. You need to follow the argument better than this. My original point was that pre-colonial Africa was a shitty place. In response to that, TheTenthDoc raised the examples of Egypt and Bablyon, to which I pointed out by way of a rhetorical question that dictatorial slaves states aren't exactly examples of Africa not being a shitty place (notwithstanding the fact that Babylon wasn't African). In response to that, various people (including GH) pointed out the very obvious fact that Western nations had slavery, too, leading to my responsive post to GH that that particularly point isn't really apropos to anything. So please, take sometime to understand the argument before calling me out.
You might want to try this yourself. I was objecting to the notion that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central to concepts of western culture and that you were spreading long deaded propaganda about Egypt.
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The next sentence in the quoted dialogue?
I guess I could add "bashing that candidate alone won't do it" to make it clearer... but I'm 50/50 on whether this is genuine confusion or deliberate obtuseness because in context it should be obvious what I mean.
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On December 14 2017 09:47 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 09:40 TheYango wrote:On December 14 2017 09:30 xDaunt wrote:
You know, you need to get over yourself and accept that slavery was pretty much a universal institution globally for most of human history. It was one of the few constants among all cultures globally up until just a few hundred years ago (with few exceptions). So pointing out the West's history of slavery isn't particularly illuminating for the purposes of our current discussion. You're the one who brought it up in the first place: On December 14 2017 09:06 xDaunt wrote:
Do you really want to rely upon dictatorial states that were entirely based and built upon the institution of slavery for your rebuttal? Everyone else is just pointing out that their Western contemporary civilizations at the time also practiced slavery and that the use of slaves is not some differentiator between the North African civilizations and Western civilizations in that era like you made it out to be. You need to follow the argument better than this. My original point was that pre-colonial Africa was a shitty place. In response to that, TheTenthDoc raised the examples of Egypt and Bablyon, to which I pointed out by way of a rhetorical question that dictatorial slaves states aren't exactly examples of Africa not being a shitty place (notwithstanding the fact that Babylon wasn't African). In response to that, various people (including GH) pointed out the very obvious fact that Western nations had slavery, too, leading to my responsive post to GH that that particularly point isn't really apropos to anything. So please, take sometime to understand the argument before calling me out.
Shit compared to what? And when? We talking Queen Liz sending out privateers? Or we full US colonies and the slave trade? Because the arrival the the white man did not improve Africa for the people who lived there. We got like a good 400 years to narrow down here.
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On December 14 2017 09:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
You might want to try this yourself. I was objecting to the notion that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central to concepts of western culture and that you were spreading long deaded propaganda about Egypt.
I'm pretty sure that I'm the only one who is following the argument -- and really I should say arguments given how many different points are being thrown at me.
And where did I say that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central concepts of Western culture? There's a very big difference between acknowledging their roles in the formation of Western culture and arguing that they're the pinnacles of Western culture. You need to pay attention to the words that are being used. They matter.
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On December 14 2017 09:53 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 09:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
You might want to try this yourself. I was objecting to the notion that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central to concepts of western culture and that you were spreading long deaded propaganda about Egypt. I'm pretty sure that I'm the only one who is following the argument -- and really I should say arguments given how many different points are being thrown at me. And where did I say that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central concepts of Western culture? There's a very big difference between acknowledging their roles in the formation of Western culture and arguing that they're the pinnacles of Western culture. You need to pay attention to the words that are being used. They matter.
Fair enough, I thought you imagined Greece and Rome as the paragon of western culture in their respective times. Who are your better examples?
Does this mean you knew slaves didn't build the Pyramids or that's something you just learned today?
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On December 14 2017 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 09:53 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 09:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
You might want to try this yourself. I was objecting to the notion that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central to concepts of western culture and that you were spreading long deaded propaganda about Egypt. I'm pretty sure that I'm the only one who is following the argument -- and really I should say arguments given how many different points are being thrown at me. And where did I say that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central concepts of Western culture? There's a very big difference between acknowledging their roles in the formation of Western culture and arguing that they're the pinnacles of Western culture. You need to pay attention to the words that are being used. They matter. Fair enough, I thought you imagined Greece and Rome as the paragon of western culture in their respective times. Who are your better examples? Does this mean you knew slaves didn't build the Pyramids or that's something you just learned today?
Sure, I agree that Rome and Greece were the paragons of Western culture in their respective times, but there is a big difference between acknowledging them as such and acknowledging them as being the paragon of Western culture for all times.
I really don't know who built the Pyramids. All I know is that Egypt was a slave-oriented society.
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On December 14 2017 10:05 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 14 2017 09:53 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 09:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
You might want to try this yourself. I was objecting to the notion that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central to concepts of western culture and that you were spreading long deaded propaganda about Egypt. I'm pretty sure that I'm the only one who is following the argument -- and really I should say arguments given how many different points are being thrown at me. And where did I say that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central concepts of Western culture? There's a very big difference between acknowledging their roles in the formation of Western culture and arguing that they're the pinnacles of Western culture. You need to pay attention to the words that are being used. They matter. Fair enough, I thought you imagined Greece and Rome as the paragon of western culture in their respective times. Who are your better examples? Does this mean you knew slaves didn't build the Pyramids or that's something you just learned today? Sure, I agree that Rome and Greece were the paragons of Western culture in their respective times, but there is a big difference between acknowledging them as such and acknowledging them as being the paragon of Western culture for all times. I really don't know who built the Pyramids. All I know is that Egypt was a slave-oriented society.
Well then that's a simple miscommunication on the first part.
As to the Pyramids and Egypt, no. Egypt has an incredibly long history, when are you suggesting you "know that Egypt was a slave-oriented society"?
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On December 14 2017 10:11 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 10:05 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 14 2017 09:53 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 09:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
You might want to try this yourself. I was objecting to the notion that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central to concepts of western culture and that you were spreading long deaded propaganda about Egypt. I'm pretty sure that I'm the only one who is following the argument -- and really I should say arguments given how many different points are being thrown at me. And where did I say that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central concepts of Western culture? There's a very big difference between acknowledging their roles in the formation of Western culture and arguing that they're the pinnacles of Western culture. You need to pay attention to the words that are being used. They matter. Fair enough, I thought you imagined Greece and Rome as the paragon of western culture in their respective times. Who are your better examples? Does this mean you knew slaves didn't build the Pyramids or that's something you just learned today? Sure, I agree that Rome and Greece were the paragons of Western culture in their respective times, but there is a big difference between acknowledging them as such and acknowledging them as being the paragon of Western culture for all times. I really don't know who built the Pyramids. All I know is that Egypt was a slave-oriented society. Well then that's a simple miscommunication on the first part. As to the Pyramids and Egypt, no. Egypt has an incredibly long history, when are you suggesting you "know that Egypt was a slave-oriented society"?
I'm presuming that the TheTenthDoc was referring to ancient Egypt.
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On December 14 2017 10:13 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 10:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 14 2017 10:05 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 14 2017 09:53 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 09:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
You might want to try this yourself. I was objecting to the notion that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central to concepts of western culture and that you were spreading long deaded propaganda about Egypt. I'm pretty sure that I'm the only one who is following the argument -- and really I should say arguments given how many different points are being thrown at me. And where did I say that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central concepts of Western culture? There's a very big difference between acknowledging their roles in the formation of Western culture and arguing that they're the pinnacles of Western culture. You need to pay attention to the words that are being used. They matter. Fair enough, I thought you imagined Greece and Rome as the paragon of western culture in their respective times. Who are your better examples? Does this mean you knew slaves didn't build the Pyramids or that's something you just learned today? Sure, I agree that Rome and Greece were the paragons of Western culture in their respective times, but there is a big difference between acknowledging them as such and acknowledging them as being the paragon of Western culture for all times. I really don't know who built the Pyramids. All I know is that Egypt was a slave-oriented society. Well then that's a simple miscommunication on the first part. As to the Pyramids and Egypt, no. Egypt has an incredibly long history, when are you suggesting you "know that Egypt was a slave-oriented society"? I'm presuming that the TheTenthDoc was referring to ancient Egypt.
"Ancient Egypt" encompasses a long time, what time frame are you sure Egypt was a slave oriented society? For example, when they built the Pyramids (~2500's BC?)
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On December 14 2017 10:13 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 10:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 14 2017 10:05 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 14 2017 09:53 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 09:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
You might want to try this yourself. I was objecting to the notion that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central to concepts of western culture and that you were spreading long deaded propaganda about Egypt. I'm pretty sure that I'm the only one who is following the argument -- and really I should say arguments given how many different points are being thrown at me. And where did I say that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central concepts of Western culture? There's a very big difference between acknowledging their roles in the formation of Western culture and arguing that they're the pinnacles of Western culture. You need to pay attention to the words that are being used. They matter. Fair enough, I thought you imagined Greece and Rome as the paragon of western culture in their respective times. Who are your better examples? Does this mean you knew slaves didn't build the Pyramids or that's something you just learned today? Sure, I agree that Rome and Greece were the paragons of Western culture in their respective times, but there is a big difference between acknowledging them as such and acknowledging them as being the paragon of Western culture for all times. I really don't know who built the Pyramids. All I know is that Egypt was a slave-oriented society. Well then that's a simple miscommunication on the first part. As to the Pyramids and Egypt, no. Egypt has an incredibly long history, when are you suggesting you "know that Egypt was a slave-oriented society"? I'm presuming that the TheTenthDoc was referring to ancient Egypt.
I mean, I was referring to Egypt as a pre-colonial African nation with a suite of large-scale civilization accomplishments. And a better place to live than a lot of the world at the time (or pretty much anywhere else).
I didn't realize you were talking about a specific time window when Africa was worse off than the rest of the world as an excuse to say Western civilization is the bestest, silly me. Should have expected it by now.
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On December 14 2017 09:23 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 09:20 Simberto wrote:
The fuck is going on here.
XDaunt is on a roll today.
"All the problems in Africa are because black people suck at everything"
"White men gave them the solutions to their dark age problems during colonisation, but since they are stupid black people, when the white men left, they got back to the dark ages."
Seriously. What is this shit. You should read some stuff about africa during colonisation. That shit that xDaunt is saying is utterly disgusting. I think it would be more obvious for people if he were doing this historical revisionism (a euphemism at best) with the Holocaust. But yeah, it's thoroughly repugnant.
Just because this sort of harsh reality triggers you doesn't make it any less true. A cursory glance at Zimbabwe's 20th century history alone vindicates XDaunt's argument:
1) Zimbabwe becomes the "bread-basket of Africa" with the help of White farmers, whom are the most successful
2) Mugabe drives all the Whites out in a violent purge
3) Zimbabwe's economy then collapses beyond repair and earns itself the most worthless currency on our planet.
It's sadly reminiscent of how Josef Stalin purged the Kulaks of Ukraine in what led to the Holodomor, just with a greater emphasis on promoting racial strife versus equity and class warfare. I'm glad Mugabe's finally been ousted from power but the damage has already been done.
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Also, pre-colonial Africa had a fuckton of thriving societies/kingdoms. It's actually insane what we wiped out.
On December 14 2017 10:17 ShakeN_blake wrote:
Just because this sort of harsh reality triggers you doesn't make it any less true. A cursory glance at Zimbabwe's 20th century history alone vindicates XDaunt's argument:
1) Zimbabwe becomes the "bread-basket of Africa" with the help of White farmers, whom are the most successful
2) Mugabe drives all the Whites out in a violent purge
3) Zimbabwe's economy then collapses beyond repair and earns itself the most worthless currency on our planet.
It's sadly reminiscent of how Josef Stalin purged the Kulaks of Ukraine in what led to the Holodomor, just with a greater emphasis on promoting racial strife versus equity and class warfare. I'm glad Mugabe's finally been ousted from power but the damage has already been done.
Fuck off with your shit post colonial bullshit. Why don't you look at everything before a handful of European interests started to fuck it up?
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United States24740 Posts
On December 14 2017 09:48 LegalLord wrote:The next sentence in the quoted dialogue? I guess I could add "bashing that candidate alone won't do it" to make it clearer... but I'm 50/50 on whether this is genuine confusion or deliberate obtuseness because in context it should be obvious what I mean.
This is my read of the conversation:
Position 1: Democrats are stupid for thinking that drawing attention to candidate badness will have a meaningful effect on voting.
Position 2: Candidates need to offer change to meaningfully affect voting.
Contrary Position A: Position 1 is incorrect. If attention was not drawn to Moore's badness, Moore would have won the election [note - this does not contradict Position 2].
Position 3: Neither Position 1 or Position 2 said candidate badness should be ignored.
Position 4: Drawing attention to candidate badness is not sufficient.
My position: Positions 1 and 4 are inconsistent.
You offered to change position 1 to make it consistent with position 4 which is fine, but you are claiming context made it obvious even though two separate people took issue with position 1 as it was written.
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On December 14 2017 10:15 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 10:13 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 10:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 14 2017 10:05 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 14 2017 09:53 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 09:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
You might want to try this yourself. I was objecting to the notion that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central to concepts of western culture and that you were spreading long deaded propaganda about Egypt. I'm pretty sure that I'm the only one who is following the argument -- and really I should say arguments given how many different points are being thrown at me. And where did I say that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central concepts of Western culture? There's a very big difference between acknowledging their roles in the formation of Western culture and arguing that they're the pinnacles of Western culture. You need to pay attention to the words that are being used. They matter. Fair enough, I thought you imagined Greece and Rome as the paragon of western culture in their respective times. Who are your better examples? Does this mean you knew slaves didn't build the Pyramids or that's something you just learned today? Sure, I agree that Rome and Greece were the paragons of Western culture in their respective times, but there is a big difference between acknowledging them as such and acknowledging them as being the paragon of Western culture for all times. I really don't know who built the Pyramids. All I know is that Egypt was a slave-oriented society. Well then that's a simple miscommunication on the first part. As to the Pyramids and Egypt, no. Egypt has an incredibly long history, when are you suggesting you "know that Egypt was a slave-oriented society"? I'm presuming that the TheTenthDoc was referring to ancient Egypt. I mean, I was referring to Egypt as a pre-colonial African nation with a suite of large-scale civilization accomplishments. And a better place to live than a lot of the world at the time (or pretty much anywhere else). I didn't realize you were talking about a specific time window when Africa was worse off than the rest of the world as an excuse to say Western civilization is the bestest, silly me. Should have expected it by now.
Well, ancient Egypt is really the only Egypt that makes sense in the context of your original post, particularly given that there was really nothing "African" about Egypt other than its location after it went through the ringer of ownership by the Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, and Arabs.
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On December 14 2017 10:21 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 10:15 TheTenthDoc wrote:On December 14 2017 10:13 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 10:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 14 2017 10:05 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 14 2017 09:53 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2017 09:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
You might want to try this yourself. I was objecting to the notion that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central to concepts of western culture and that you were spreading long deaded propaganda about Egypt. I'm pretty sure that I'm the only one who is following the argument -- and really I should say arguments given how many different points are being thrown at me. And where did I say that Rome and Greece weren't/aren't central concepts of Western culture? There's a very big difference between acknowledging their roles in the formation of Western culture and arguing that they're the pinnacles of Western culture. You need to pay attention to the words that are being used. They matter. Fair enough, I thought you imagined Greece and Rome as the paragon of western culture in their respective times. Who are your better examples? Does this mean you knew slaves didn't build the Pyramids or that's something you just learned today? Sure, I agree that Rome and Greece were the paragons of Western culture in their respective times, but there is a big difference between acknowledging them as such and acknowledging them as being the paragon of Western culture for all times. I really don't know who built the Pyramids. All I know is that Egypt was a slave-oriented society. Well then that's a simple miscommunication on the first part. As to the Pyramids and Egypt, no. Egypt has an incredibly long history, when are you suggesting you "know that Egypt was a slave-oriented society"? I'm presuming that the TheTenthDoc was referring to ancient Egypt. I mean, I was referring to Egypt as a pre-colonial African nation with a suite of large-scale civilization accomplishments. And a better place to live than a lot of the world at the time (or pretty much anywhere else). I didn't realize you were talking about a specific time window when Africa was worse off than the rest of the world as an excuse to say Western civilization is the bestest, silly me. Should have expected it by now. Well, ancient Egypt is really the only Egypt that makes sense in the context of your original post, particularly given that there was really nothing "African" about Egypt other than its location after it went through the ringer of ownership by the Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, and Arabs.
Sure, just like there's nothing Western about all the mathematics, philosophy, law, and medicine stolen from the Arabs, and the U.S. is just an extension of Britain!
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On December 14 2017 10:19 Uldridge wrote:Also, pre-colonial Africa had a fuckton of thriving societies/kingdoms. It's actually insane what we wiped out. Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 10:17 ShakeN_blake wrote:
Just because this sort of harsh reality triggers you doesn't make it any less true. A cursory glance at Zimbabwe's 20th century history alone vindicates XDaunt's argument:
1) Zimbabwe becomes the "bread-basket of Africa" with the help of White farmers, whom are the most successful
2) Mugabe drives all the Whites out in a violent purge
3) Zimbabwe's economy then collapses beyond repair and earns itself the most worthless currency on our planet.
It's sadly reminiscent of how Josef Stalin purged the Kulaks of Ukraine in what led to the Holodomor, just with a greater emphasis on promoting racial strife versus equity and class warfare. I'm glad Mugabe's finally been ousted from power but the damage has already been done. Fuck off with your shit post colonial bullshit. Why don't you look at everything before a handful of European interests started to fuck it up?
Then how did the societies get wiped out? What did they do wrong?
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EPT
