EPTBoth people say it was during rehearsal for a USO comedy skit.
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
Both people say it was during rehearsal for a USO comedy skit. | ||
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Wulfey_LA
932 Posts
On November 10 2017 08:07 Wulfey_LA wrote: I think if we put some numbers on this we could better quantify the outrage. If everyone is a 10 then none of them are a 10. 10 - Cosby: Mass serial rape with a system of enablers to silence and harm victims after the assaults and drugs. 9 - Weinstein: Mass serial rape with a system of enablers to silence and harm victims after the assaults and punish those who refuse. 8 - Ailes/O'Reilly: serial assault/rape/harassment with a system of enablers to silence and harm victims after the assaults 7 - Spacey/Hastert: rape in the first degree of a minor 6 - Moore: several underage molestations, but not quite to penetration (based on current accusations, could update at any time) 6 - Generic: rape in the first/second degrees of an adult 5 - Generic: sexual assault short of rape in the first/second degrees (genital contact from here on up) 5 - Weiner: sexual nudity with a minor so he is above LouisCK 4 - LouisCK: jerking off in front of women but no physical contact with victims (sexual nudity) 3 - Generic: exposure of penis and suggestion (nudity from here on up) 2 - Generic: unwanted and weird touching and hugs at workplace (touching) [bush1 and franken and Trump] 1 - Generic: unwanted and abusive/weird words in workplace or other location (no touching) I am going to re-up my argument here. We are rapidly progressing towards saying that all sexual misconduct stories are 10s and whoever it is needs to be exiled from public life. Sexual misconduct stories get huge clicks and spread like crazy, but they keep getting reported as if they equal because news sites really need those clicks. 1-4 ought be able to be reintegrated into police society with some kind of apology and contrition. 4 is iffy, but maybe. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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KwarK
United States43350 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On November 17 2017 03:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Yes, me saying that is by no means an attack on the #metoo campaign. I just don't really want to invalidate a current day politician because he was a comedian 20 years ago and he made jokes back then that were socially acceptable back then and that aren't today. Bringing light to stuff like this not being okay is basically why awareness efforts like these are good and important, but as long as it's just a singular incident then it's not too big of a deal. These allegations are super damning if they make up a pattern, otherwise it's easy for me to disregard. On the day of the show Franken and I were alone backstage going over our lines one last time. He said to me, “We need to rehearse the kiss.” I laughed and ignored him. Then he said it again. I said something like, ‘Relax Al, this isn’t SNL…we don’t need to rehearse the kiss.’ He continued to insist, and I was beginning to get uncomfortable. He repeated that actors really need to rehearse everything and that we must practice the kiss. I said ‘OK’ so he would stop badgering me. We did the line leading up to the kiss and then he came at me, put his hand on the back of my head, mashed his lips against mine and aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth. Considering how recent this was and what he did, I'm thinking there's other victims. I'm pretty tolerant on sexual innuendo in joking, but even back then forcing himself on her over objections and sticking his tongue into her mouth is known to be over the line. Imagine yourself ten years ago doing that. Singular incident in his late teens/early twenties I can grasp, just not a man in his mid fifties sticking his tongue down an unwilling woman is a one-off. And that apology talking like it was just a photo and there's no excuse (with excuses like only recently I've had to take a good hard look at my actions, comparing the situation to offensive jokes) disgusts me. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On November 17 2017 03:43 KwarK wrote: Can we not do better in congress than "he's an ass and should not have done it"? I don't require criminal convictions for my public servants to resign, if they're not capable of respectfully representing their constituents then get rid of them and get someone who can. Most jobs don't require criminality to get fired, just incompetence. (in)competence typically doesn't denote decorum or demeanor. it sounds like the question you should be asking is, "does this person effectively fight for and represent the interests of his voters?" your phrasing is doubly odd because the incident happened before franken even had the job. i assume everyone here is totally against any convicted felon ever serving in congress https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_federal_politicians_convicted_of_crimes | ||
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Wulfey_LA
932 Posts
On November 17 2017 04:27 Plansix wrote: That scale pretty much sucks because fully blown sexual assault is a 5 when it should be a 9. Really the whole thing seems written to diminish most forms of sexual assault and harassment. Okay, rescale the thing to be 5,5.5,6,6.5....10. I get that a '1' sounds like a low number in human scale thinking, but I think that we are putting too many of these scandals as too close to each other in a way that diminishes the real monsters. Over-accusations and over-condemnations weaken outrage over time. EDIT: you can make a plausible sexual harassment civil suit out the facts from a '1'. Just being on the chart is at least tortious. EDIT2: yes, 3 and up make for criminal charges. Prosecutors usually don't put much effort into prosecuting 2s. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21997 Posts
On November 17 2017 04:23 Wulfey_LA wrote: I am going to re-up my argument here. We are rapidly progressing towards saying that all sexual misconduct stories are 10s and whoever it is needs to be exiled from public life. Sexual misconduct stories get huge clicks and spread like crazy, but they keep getting reported as if they equal because news sites really need those clicks. 1-4 ought be able to be reintegrated into police society with some kind of apology and contrition. 4 is iffy, but maybe. 1, maybe 2 (prob not tho) is where I would draw the line. Your WAY past the line when your pulling out your dick. And no I dont think its 'to much attention'. I'd like a world where women aren't regularly 'a little sexually harassed'. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On November 17 2017 04:27 Plansix wrote: That scale pretty much sucks because fully blown sexual assault is a 5 when it should be a 9. Really the whole thing seems written to diminish most forms of sexual assault and harassment. One of my few points of agreement with you. It will only hurt victims coming forward because 'He only exposed his genitals to me" mindset is one of the things leading to these things only coming out now. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 17 2017 04:32 Wulfey_LA wrote: Okay, rescale the thing to be 5,5.5,6,6.5....10. I get that a '1' sounds like a low number in human scale thinking, but I think that we are putting too many of these scandals as too close to each other in a way that diminishes the real monsters. Over-accusations and over-condemnations weaken outrage over time. This is akin to trying to decide which terminal cancer is the worst, when they are all going to kill you. Sexual harassment and sexual assault is a problem across party lines and it is all connected. The same things that protected Frankin also protected Moore. We don’t need a sliding scale to determine who is the worst. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28727 Posts
On November 17 2017 04:32 Danglars wrote: Considering how recent this was and what he did, I'm thinking there's other victims. I'm pretty tolerant on sexual innuendo in joking, but even back then forcing himself on her over objections and sticking his tongue into her mouth is known to be over the line. Imagine yourself ten years ago doing that. Singular incident in his late teens/early twenties I can grasp, just not a man in his mid fifties sticking his tongue down an unwilling woman is a one-off. And that apology talking like it was just a photo and there's no excuse (with excuses like only recently I've had to take a good hard look at my actions, comparing the situation to offensive jokes) disgusts me. My thinking is basically that the most likely scenario is that there are other victims, but that if there aren't any, then that adds some validity to the idea that it might be slightly exaggerated on her behalf and that it's not typical of behavior that characterizes Franken. It's bad, but I can forgive someone being an idiot once if there's no pattern. But I agree that it's likely that there is one. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21997 Posts
On November 17 2017 04:53 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: https://twitter.com/JHWeissmann/status/931233852827275265 Or they are counting on their voters being ignorant enough to accept the 'we cut taxes' lies (likely) and it not passing the Senate anyway. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On November 17 2017 04:55 Gorsameth wrote: Or they are counting on their voters being ignorant enough to accept the 'we cut taxes' lies (likely) and it not passing the Senate anyway. I mean, they already did that with the AHCA. If it ain't broke... | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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Introvert
United States4866 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 17 2017 05:18 Introvert wrote: People seem to believe that the Senate Ethics Committee is a serious thing that actually tries to find the truth. This would be a new opinion. Who should do it then? FBI? CIA? The House? How to catch a predator? | ||
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KwarK
United States43350 Posts
On November 17 2017 04:32 IgnE wrote: (in)competence typically doesn't denote decorum or demeanor. it sounds like the question you should be asking is, "does this person effectively fight for and represent the interests of his voters?" your phrasing is doubly odd because the incident happened before franken even had the job. i assume everyone here is totally against any convicted felon ever serving in congress https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_federal_politicians_convicted_of_crimes Perhaps incompetence isn't the word. But it certainly casts a lot of doubt on his ability to perform his job ethically as a representative of his constituents, half of whom are female. High standards of ethical behavior are part of the job description for public officials, evidence that casts doubt upon that is evidence that they may not have the capacity to perform the job. If 11 years ago he had been working in the private sector as a procurement officer and had solicited kickbacks from vendors then that would be no different, for example. Generally yes, some contextual exceptions. An African American politician with a conviction resulting from some kind of protest or disturbance against a racist establishment would be fine by me, for example. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On November 17 2017 04:53 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: https://twitter.com/JHWeissmann/status/931233852827275265 This guy is a moron. The GOP is dead in the water if they don't pass something this year. That's reason enough to vote for the thing, even with all of its imperfections. | ||
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