EPTMeanwhile, the democrats are having none of the republicans attempts to cook the books on this tax bill.
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Meanwhile, the democrats are having none of the republicans attempts to cook the books on this tax bill. | ||
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On November 17 2017 02:18 Stratos_speAr wrote: Franken being accused of this isn't anything particularly special. First off, it's not entirely surprising. Second, it's not a blow to the Democratic Party in any major way, since he isn't some huge star in the party and I haven't heard a single word here in Minnesota about him being a presidential candidate or doing anything else particularly special in the party. Minnesota is a state where the governor chooses the replacement, so governor Dayton would be able to pick a solid Democratic candidate to fill his vacancy. Even with a short term, it would be pretty difficult for Republicans to win his seat in an election. Republicans weren't able to win statewide elections in Minnesota even with the Trump surge last year, and the backlash to the Trump administration in Minnesota is pretty incredible. He should step down, governor Dayton should replace him, and the party won't really be hurt by this in any way. It'll probably even look good when compared to the Moore debacle. I agree, Dems have a huge chance to score points if they can get him to step down for now. Hell he can run again in 2020 if he clears his name / works hard enough to make amends and I am sure voters would probably welcome him back if he does the right steps | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
On November 17 2017 02:22 Mohdoo wrote: I have zero problem with just tossing Franken straight under the bus for the sake of showing off difference in Fixed that for you. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14211 Posts
On November 17 2017 02:18 Stratos_speAr wrote: Franken being accused of this isn't anything particularly special. First off, it's not entirely surprising. Second, it's not a blow to the Democratic Party in any major way, since he isn't some huge star in the party and I haven't heard a single word here in Minnesota about him being a presidential candidate or doing anything else particularly special in the party. Minnesota is a state where the governor chooses the replacement, so governor Dayton would be able to pick a solid Democratic candidate to fill his vacancy. Even with a short term, it would be pretty difficult for Republicans to win his seat in an election. Republicans weren't able to win statewide elections in Minnesota even with the Trump surge last year, and the backlash to the Trump administration in Minnesota is pretty incredible. He should step down, governor Dayton should replace him, and the party won't really be hurt by this in any way. It'll probably even look good when compared to the Moore debacle. This isn't true really. The Election that got frankin elected in the first place came down to a double recount and had enough of a margin of error for it to go either way reasonably. Hes never been considered for a presidential run beacuse of this event happening more then likely. Minnesota didn't go Trump beacuse we're more moderate then the nation and even then it was an extremly close election with the Labor and farmer vote that the state party is named for went red which is really rare. If it wasn't for Dayton being a boss and the state having a really great run during his governership I don't think hillary would have won. Depending on how this is handeled the seat is a tossup and could go either way. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On November 17 2017 02:23 Plansix wrote: https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/930851695193665536 Meanwhile, the democrats are having none of the republicans attempts to cook the books on this tax bill. I expect her to keep dropping the hammer and be very vocal. She's one of the most vulnerable Democratic incumbents going into 2018. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On November 17 2017 02:26 Sermokala wrote: This isn't true really. The Election that got frankin elected in the first place came down to a double recount and had enough of a margin of error for it to go either way reasonably. Hes never been considered for a presidential run beacuse of this event happening more then likely. Minnesota didn't go Trump beacuse we're more moderate then the nation and even then it was an extremly close election with the Labor and farmer vote that the state party is named for went red which is really rare. If it wasn't for Dayton being a boss and the state having a really great run during his governership I don't think hillary would have won. Depending on how this is handeled the seat is a tossup and could go either way. Another example of this area being comfortable with the Franken/Bernie types but not with what people tend to refer to as corporate democrats. | ||
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On November 17 2017 02:29 ticklishmusic wrote: I expect her to keep dropping the hammer and be very vocal. She's one of the most vulnerable Democratic incumbents going into 2018. Doesn't make her any less right, or the GOP any less full of shit. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On November 17 2017 02:26 Sermokala wrote: This isn't true really. The Election that got frankin elected in the first place came down to a double recount and had enough of a margin of error for it to go either way reasonably. Hes never been considered for a presidential run beacuse of this event happening more then likely. Minnesota didn't go Trump beacuse we're more moderate then the nation and even then it was an extremly close election with the Labor and farmer vote that the state party is named for went red which is really rare. If it wasn't for Dayton being a boss and the state having a really great run during his governership I don't think hillary would have won. Depending on how this is handeled the seat is a tossup and could go either way. Franken's first election was close, but that was nearly a ago. His 2nd election was a very comfortable win, and the state has become more and more liberal-leaning, with the Twin Cities and other large urban areas continuing to grow and more minorities moving to Minnesota. Furthermore, Franken unseated a sitting Republican senator to win his first election, and the other senate seat hasn't been in republican hands since before Dayton was a senator. If the GOP couldn't win in Minnesota with the surge that won Trump the presidency, there is no way in hell they're winning anything with the Democratic backlash that will come in the next 2 elections. Minnesota is a very solidly rural democratic state, much in the same vein of Washington, and its demographics are only trending more toward the Dems. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28906 Posts
On November 17 2017 02:44 IgnE wrote: theres no way, barring further disclosures by more women, that franken resigns. Yeah if it's just one woman telling one story then people can come up with all types of justifications 'shes exaggerating' 'he fucked up once 20 years ago' etc and then people are like, meh. The thing is that it seems like it's virtually always a pattern once someone is implicated in one of these. The kissing story as portrayed by her sounds pretty damn pathetic on his behalf, but that grope picture doesn't look like he's actually grabbing anything, just posing, and in a way that was 'kinda socially acceptable as a joke' back then. As long as it's just this one happening then I don't really care tbh, but I'm also somewhat expecting more women to come forward. | ||
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brian
United States9643 Posts
On November 17 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote: Yeah if it's just one woman telling one story then people can come up with all types of justifications 'shes exaggerating' 'he fucked up once 20 years ago' etc and then people are like, meh. The thing is that it seems like it's virtually always a pattern once someone is implicated in one of these. The kissing story as portrayed by her sounds pretty damn pathetic on his behalf, but that grope picture doesn't look like he's actually grabbing anything, just posing, and in a way that was 'kinda socially acceptable as a joke' back then. As long as it's just this one happening then I don't really care tbh, but I'm also somewhat expecting more women to come forward. i hate being the extreme one but ‘kinda socially acceptable as a joke’ really undermines the entire point of these women coming forward doesn’t it? that it’s socially acceptable is the problem, not the excuse for why it ok? that said i agree the photo alone isn’t too condemning, but as a follow up to what allegedly felt like some real harassment while you’re vulnerable, asleep isn’t ok even if he didn’t actually grope her. looking closely, personally, i think it crossed the line. i wouldn’t want someone cupping my balls and have people wave it away as barely any physical contact. if he’s not actually touching her, he made a conscious careful move to get as close as possible to cupping her boobs. why? the comedy show was over. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On November 17 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote: Yeah if it's just one woman telling one story then people can come up with all types of justifications 'shes exaggerating' 'he fucked up once 20 years ago' etc and then people are like, meh. The thing is that it seems like it's virtually always a pattern once someone is implicated in one of these. The kissing story as portrayed by her sounds pretty damn pathetic on his behalf, but that grope picture doesn't look like he's actually grabbing anything, just posing, and in a way that was 'kinda socially acceptable as a joke' back then. As long as it's just this one happening then I don't really care tbh, but I'm also somewhat expecting more women to come forward. Yeah, the picture is totally benign imo. If anyone else comes out about sexual stuff, he's definitely toast. But if it stays as just 1, I imagine he sticks around. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28906 Posts
On November 17 2017 03:09 brian wrote: i hate being the extreme one but ‘kinda socially acceptable as a joke’ really undermines the entire point of these women coming forward doesn’t it? that it’s socially acceptable is the problem, not the excuse for why it ok? that said i agree the photo alone isn’t too condemning, but as a follow up to what allegedly felt like some real harassment while you’re vulnerable, asleep, and in public isn’t ok even if he didn’t actually grope her. but that’s my 2c Yes, me saying that is by no means an attack on the #metoo campaign. I just don't really want to invalidate a current day politician because he was a comedian 20 years ago and he made jokes back then that were socially acceptable back then and that aren't today. Bringing light to stuff like this not being okay is basically why awareness efforts like these are good and important, but as long as it's just a singular incident then it's not too big of a deal. These allegations are super damning if they make up a pattern, otherwise it's easy for me to disregard. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On November 17 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote: in a way that was 'kinda socially acceptable as a joke' back then. Would you use this reasoning in regards to a non liberal politician? | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On November 17 2017 03:09 Mohdoo wrote: Yeah, the picture is totally benign imo. If anyone else comes out about sexual stuff, he's definitely toast. But if it stays as just 1, I imagine he sticks around. i have friends with... odd senses of humor. there are a lot of pictures of me asleep with funny things being done to me. for example, i've woken up with a dildo in one hand, my nails painted, etc. there's a difference because i'm a guy and the people messing with me are friends, but i'd say messing/ posing with people while sleeping is largely benign. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28906 Posts
On November 17 2017 03:17 Doodsmack wrote: Would you use this reasoning in regards to a non liberal politician? Depends? If you found me a picture of a dutch right wing politician who participated in Zwarte Piet, blackface and all, back in 1995, I certainly would not consider it proof that they are racist, but if you find me a leader of Pegida wearing a nazi costume then that's a different manner. It's all contextual. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22649 Posts
On November 17 2017 03:18 ticklishmusic wrote: i have friends with... odd senses of humor. there are a lot of pictures of me asleep with funny things being done to me. for example, i've woken up with a dildo in one hand, my nails painted, etc. there's a difference because i'm a guy and the people messing with me are friends, but i'd say messing/ posing with people while sleeping is largely benign. Friends vs strangers makes a massive difference here imo. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On November 17 2017 03:18 ticklishmusic wrote: i have friends with... odd senses of humor. there are a lot of pictures of me asleep with funny things being done to me. for example, i've woken up with a dildo in one hand, my nails painted, etc. there's a difference because i'm a guy and the people messing with me are friends, but i'd say messing/ posing with people while sleeping is largely benign. Same. This is my thinking as well. The dude clearly did not pose for a picture with a thumbs up to celebrate sexual assault. But there may be two totally separate issues. Pretending your sleeping friend is blowing you is not the same as actually groping someone. If he's actually being a creeper to people, he's gotta go. But if he just takes silly pictures like millions of other Americans do with their friends, he has done nothing wrong. | ||
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