|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
I like how you refer to the issues about the tax bill as simply "imperfections".
|
That tax bill is basically shit that will end up with massive cuts to services or blowing out the debt even further. The GOP is completely screwed because they can’t pass good legislation without being primaryed by the conservative/tea party wing. They are just praying the Democrats continue their long streak of not winning elections.
|
On November 17 2017 05:39 xDaunt wrote:This guy is a moron. The GOP is dead in the water if they don't pass something this year. That's reason enough to vote for the thing, even with all of its imperfections.
Its not passing the senate
You know it destroys the healthcare system right?
Its basically worse then the old 'repeal and dont replace'
|
On November 17 2017 05:25 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2017 05:18 Introvert wrote:
People seem to believe that the Senate Ethics Committee is a serious thing that actually tries to find the truth. This would be a new opinion. Who should do it then? FBI? CIA? The House? How to catch a predator?
Honestly, the only person I'd trust is Guy Fieri.
On November 17 2017 05:46 NeoIllusions wrote:
I like how you refer to the issues about the tax bill as simply "imperfections".
When you throw a person through a window, the window becomes imperfect. Fact.
|
United States43967 Posts
On the one hand the tax bill will increase the deficit by $1,500,000,000,000. On the other hand, that's what the budget they already passed said they were going to do so can we really hold it against them when they pass bills that'll do that?
|
On November 17 2017 05:57 KwarK wrote:
On the one hand the tax bill will increase the deficit by $1,500,000,000,000. On the other hand, that's what the budget they already passed said they were going to do so can we really hold it against them when they pass bills that'll do that?
I hope you mean debt not deficit 
|
Meanwhile, in the Senate:
|
United States43967 Posts
On November 17 2017 06:08 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2017 05:57 KwarK wrote:
On the one hand the tax bill will increase the deficit by $1,500,000,000,000. On the other hand, that's what the budget they already passed said they were going to do so can we really hold it against them when they pass bills that'll do that? I hope you mean debt not deficit
Yeah, the cumulative deficit across 10 years is $1.5t which will be borrowed as usual resulting in a $1.5t debt. The annual deficit isn't going up by $1.5t. I misstated that.
|
On November 17 2017 05:51 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2017 05:39 xDaunt wrote:This guy is a moron. The GOP is dead in the water if they don't pass something this year. That's reason enough to vote for the thing, even with all of its imperfections. Its not passing the senate You know it destroys the healthcare system right? Its basically worse then the old 'repeal and dont replace'
I'm at the point with healthcare where I'm in favor of pushing the system into crisis so that we get real reform. Obamacare is a disaster.
|
On November 17 2017 06:16 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2017 05:51 Gorsameth wrote:On November 17 2017 05:39 xDaunt wrote:This guy is a moron. The GOP is dead in the water if they don't pass something this year. That's reason enough to vote for the thing, even with all of its imperfections. Its not passing the senate You know it destroys the healthcare system right? Its basically worse then the old 'repeal and dont replace' I'm at the point with healthcare where I'm in favor of pushing the system into crisis so that we get real reform. Obamacare is a disaster.
Are you willing to pay 10k+ monthly premiums?
Because thats what your looking at when the mandate gets removed without cutting pre-existing condition support.
|
On November 17 2017 06:15 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2017 06:08 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 17 2017 05:57 KwarK wrote:
On the one hand the tax bill will increase the deficit by $1,500,000,000,000. On the other hand, that's what the budget they already passed said they were going to do so can we really hold it against them when they pass bills that'll do that? I hope you mean debt not deficit Yeah, the cumulative deficit across 10 years is $1.5t which will be borrowed as usual resulting in a $1.5t debt. The annual deficit isn't going up by $1.5t. I misstated that.
LOL no worries I'm just being a snarky pedant.
|
On November 17 2017 06:18 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2017 06:16 xDaunt wrote:On November 17 2017 05:51 Gorsameth wrote:On November 17 2017 05:39 xDaunt wrote:This guy is a moron. The GOP is dead in the water if they don't pass something this year. That's reason enough to vote for the thing, even with all of its imperfections. Its not passing the senate You know it destroys the healthcare system right? Its basically worse then the old 'repeal and dont replace' I'm at the point with healthcare where I'm in favor of pushing the system into crisis so that we get real reform. Obamacare is a disaster. Are you willing to pay 10k+ monthly premiums? Because thats what your looking at when the mandate gets removed without cutting pre-existing condition support.
Don't be absurd. No one would pay $10k monthly premiums. The system will collapse long before that point because people will just stop buying healthcare coverage.
|
On November 17 2017 06:16 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2017 05:51 Gorsameth wrote:On November 17 2017 05:39 xDaunt wrote:This guy is a moron. The GOP is dead in the water if they don't pass something this year. That's reason enough to vote for the thing, even with all of its imperfections. Its not passing the senate You know it destroys the healthcare system right? Its basically worse then the old 'repeal and dont replace' I'm at the point with healthcare where I'm in favor of pushing the system into crisis so that we get real reform. Obamacare is a disaster.
Fuck this bullshit plan. I do not need and cannot afford a fucking healthcare crisis.
|
On November 17 2017 06:25 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2017 06:16 xDaunt wrote:On November 17 2017 05:51 Gorsameth wrote:On November 17 2017 05:39 xDaunt wrote:This guy is a moron. The GOP is dead in the water if they don't pass something this year. That's reason enough to vote for the thing, even with all of its imperfections. Its not passing the senate You know it destroys the healthcare system right? Its basically worse then the old 'repeal and dont replace' I'm at the point with healthcare where I'm in favor of pushing the system into crisis so that we get real reform. Obamacare is a disaster. Fuck this bullshit plan. I do not need and cannot afford a fucking healthcare crisis.
Just think of how lovely the Medicare-for-all plan that comes afterwards will be.
|
On November 17 2017 06:23 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2017 06:18 Gorsameth wrote:On November 17 2017 06:16 xDaunt wrote:On November 17 2017 05:51 Gorsameth wrote:On November 17 2017 05:39 xDaunt wrote:This guy is a moron. The GOP is dead in the water if they don't pass something this year. That's reason enough to vote for the thing, even with all of its imperfections. Its not passing the senate You know it destroys the healthcare system right? Its basically worse then the old 'repeal and dont replace' I'm at the point with healthcare where I'm in favor of pushing the system into crisis so that we get real reform. Obamacare is a disaster. Are you willing to pay 10k+ monthly premiums? Because thats what your looking at when the mandate gets removed without cutting pre-existing condition support. Don't be absurd. No one would pay $10k monthly premiums. The system will collapse long before that point because people will just stop buying healthcare coverage.
Let me explain it to you, You cancel your insurance while your healthly. You get sick, you get insurance, you cant be denied, you cancel once your healthy
100% of insured people will be sick.
I'm not calling this worse then 'repeal and don't replace' for nothing.
|
On November 17 2017 06:27 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2017 06:25 Plansix wrote:On November 17 2017 06:16 xDaunt wrote:On November 17 2017 05:51 Gorsameth wrote:On November 17 2017 05:39 xDaunt wrote:This guy is a moron. The GOP is dead in the water if they don't pass something this year. That's reason enough to vote for the thing, even with all of its imperfections. Its not passing the senate You know it destroys the healthcare system right? Its basically worse then the old 'repeal and dont replace' I'm at the point with healthcare where I'm in favor of pushing the system into crisis so that we get real reform. Obamacare is a disaster. Fuck this bullshit plan. I do not need and cannot afford a fucking healthcare crisis. Just think of how lovely the Medicare-for-all plan that comes afterwards will be.
It's basically already baked into the cake. The GOP isn't repealing this thing because that was all a lie for votes. Obamacare will collapse under its own weight already. It's just a matter of time until some version of socialized medicine gets through Congress.
|
On November 17 2017 06:29 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2017 06:23 xDaunt wrote:On November 17 2017 06:18 Gorsameth wrote:On November 17 2017 06:16 xDaunt wrote:On November 17 2017 05:51 Gorsameth wrote:On November 17 2017 05:39 xDaunt wrote:This guy is a moron. The GOP is dead in the water if they don't pass something this year. That's reason enough to vote for the thing, even with all of its imperfections. Its not passing the senate You know it destroys the healthcare system right? Its basically worse then the old 'repeal and dont replace' I'm at the point with healthcare where I'm in favor of pushing the system into crisis so that we get real reform. Obamacare is a disaster. Are you willing to pay 10k+ monthly premiums? Because thats what your looking at when the mandate gets removed without cutting pre-existing condition support. Don't be absurd. No one would pay $10k monthly premiums. The system will collapse long before that point because people will just stop buying healthcare coverage. Let me explain it to you, You cancel your insurance while your healthly. You get sick, you get insurance, you cant be denied, you cancel once your healthy 100% of insured people will be sick. I'm not calling this worse then 'repeal and don't replace' for nothing.
You don't need to explain anything to me. But apparently I need to explain to you that what you're describing is precisely what I intend to happen. What do you think "collapsing the system" means?
|
On November 17 2017 04:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2017 04:32 Danglars wrote:On November 17 2017 03:17 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 17 2017 03:09 brian wrote:On November 17 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 17 2017 02:44 IgnE wrote:
theres no way, barring further disclosures by more women, that franken resigns. Yeah if it's just one woman telling one story then people can come up with all types of justifications 'shes exaggerating' 'he fucked up once 20 years ago' etc and then people are like, meh. The thing is that it seems like it's virtually always a pattern once someone is implicated in one of these. The kissing story as portrayed by her sounds pretty damn pathetic on his behalf, but that grope picture doesn't look like he's actually grabbing anything, just posing, and in a way that was 'kinda socially acceptable as a joke' back then. As long as it's just this one happening then I don't really care tbh, but I'm also somewhat expecting more women to come forward. i hate being the extreme one but ‘kinda socially acceptable as a joke’ really undermines the entire point of these women coming forward doesn’t it? that it’s socially acceptable is the problem, not the excuse for why it ok? that said i agree the photo alone isn’t too condemning, but as a follow up to what allegedly felt like some real harassment while you’re vulnerable, asleep, and in public isn’t ok even if he didn’t actually grope her. but that’s my 2c Yes, me saying that is by no means an attack on the #metoo campaign. I just don't really want to invalidate a current day politician because he was a comedian 20 years ago and he made jokes back then that were socially acceptable back then and that aren't today. Bringing light to stuff like this not being okay is basically why awareness efforts like these are good and important, but as long as it's just a singular incident then it's not too big of a deal. These allegations are super damning if they make up a pattern, otherwise it's easy for me to disregard. On the day of the show Franken and I were alone backstage going over our lines one last time. He said to me, “We need to rehearse the kiss.” I laughed and ignored him. Then he said it again. I said something like, ‘Relax Al, this isn’t SNL…we don’t need to rehearse the kiss.’
He continued to insist, and I was beginning to get uncomfortable.
He repeated that actors really need to rehearse everything and that we must practice the kiss. I said ‘OK’ so he would stop badgering me. We did the line leading up to the kiss and then he came at me, put his hand on the back of my head, mashed his lips against mine and aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth. Considering how recent this was and what he did, I'm thinking there's other victims. I'm pretty tolerant on sexual innuendo in joking, but even back then forcing himself on her over objections and sticking his tongue into her mouth is known to be over the line. Imagine yourself ten years ago doing that. Singular incident in his late teens/early twenties I can grasp, just not a man in his mid fifties sticking his tongue down an unwilling woman is a one-off. And that apology talking like it was just a photo and there's no excuse (with excuses like only recently I've had to take a good hard look at my actions, comparing the situation to offensive jokes) disgusts me. My thinking is basically that the most likely scenario is that there are other victims, but that if there aren't any, then that adds some validity to the idea that it might be slightly exaggerated on her behalf and that it's not typical of behavior that characterizes Franken. It's bad, but I can forgive someone being an idiot once if there's no pattern. But I agree that it's likely that there is one.
It all rests on if she's lying about the experience. I don't want to go too far into the accusation being enough to be fully trusted. It's just that the photo evidence and very specific framing and description inclines me to believe Franken also did this and knew exactly what he was doing.
|
On November 17 2017 06:32 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2017 06:29 Gorsameth wrote:On November 17 2017 06:23 xDaunt wrote:On November 17 2017 06:18 Gorsameth wrote:On November 17 2017 06:16 xDaunt wrote:On November 17 2017 05:51 Gorsameth wrote:On November 17 2017 05:39 xDaunt wrote:This guy is a moron. The GOP is dead in the water if they don't pass something this year. That's reason enough to vote for the thing, even with all of its imperfections. Its not passing the senate You know it destroys the healthcare system right? Its basically worse then the old 'repeal and dont replace' I'm at the point with healthcare where I'm in favor of pushing the system into crisis so that we get real reform. Obamacare is a disaster. Are you willing to pay 10k+ monthly premiums? Because thats what your looking at when the mandate gets removed without cutting pre-existing condition support. Don't be absurd. No one would pay $10k monthly premiums. The system will collapse long before that point because people will just stop buying healthcare coverage. Let me explain it to you, You cancel your insurance while your healthly. You get sick, you get insurance, you cant be denied, you cancel once your healthy 100% of insured people will be sick. I'm not calling this worse then 'repeal and don't replace' for nothing. You don't need to explain anything to me. But apparently I need to explain to you that what you're describing is precisely what I intend to happen. What do you think "collapsing the system" means?
And how much suffering is acceptable in the time it will take congress to fix it?
|
On November 17 2017 06:43 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2017 06:32 xDaunt wrote:On November 17 2017 06:29 Gorsameth wrote:On November 17 2017 06:23 xDaunt wrote:On November 17 2017 06:18 Gorsameth wrote:On November 17 2017 06:16 xDaunt wrote:On November 17 2017 05:51 Gorsameth wrote:On November 17 2017 05:39 xDaunt wrote:This guy is a moron. The GOP is dead in the water if they don't pass something this year. That's reason enough to vote for the thing, even with all of its imperfections. Its not passing the senate You know it destroys the healthcare system right? Its basically worse then the old 'repeal and dont replace' I'm at the point with healthcare where I'm in favor of pushing the system into crisis so that we get real reform. Obamacare is a disaster. Are you willing to pay 10k+ monthly premiums? Because thats what your looking at when the mandate gets removed without cutting pre-existing condition support. Don't be absurd. No one would pay $10k monthly premiums. The system will collapse long before that point because people will just stop buying healthcare coverage. Let me explain it to you, You cancel your insurance while your healthly. You get sick, you get insurance, you cant be denied, you cancel once your healthy 100% of insured people will be sick. I'm not calling this worse then 'repeal and don't replace' for nothing. You don't need to explain anything to me. But apparently I need to explain to you that what you're describing is precisely what I intend to happen. What do you think "collapsing the system" means? And how much suffering is acceptable in the time it will take congress to fix it?
Probably less than if we let this charade simply limp along to its final and unavoidable fate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
