US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9015

On October 18 2017 10:34 GreenHorizons wrote:


lol, remind me which one of those guys is the most popular politician in the country?

On October 18 2017 10:39 Aquanim wrote:

As somebody who doesn't reside in your country, I don't have my finger on the pulse of American media as a whole.

I expect I can find somebody else in this thread who would say "if you didn't observe that 'right-wing media' lies a lot more about Democrats than 'left-wing media' does about Republicans, then the problem is your cognitive dissonance".

As such I require solid (and in particular non-anecdotal) evidence that any systematic trend you (or anybody else) claim exists actually does exist before I attach any meaningful weight to any such statements on the matter.

It seems likely that anybody else you might hope to convince here would require a similar standard of substantiation. The mere fact that you have one of "two worldviews" is not a meaningful statement about the worth of your worldview.

On October 18 2017 10:34 GreenHorizons wrote:


lol, remind me which one of those guys is the most popular politician in the country?

On October 18 2017 11:06 Danglars wrote:

I don't really have it in me to presume such good faith that a European member of the center or left is just waiting for studies and evidence to turn against the media establishment in America. Aka to go from believing bias to be present but routine into believing that it has picked sides and misled and fabricated stories to hurt Republican political influence and candidate elections. In fact, your past participation on several issues has revealed to me how unwilling you are to allow for even small encroachments on your existing views. It's run the gamut from asking bullshit questions (and presuming bad faith when conservatives don't play along), not replying substantively on almost any points (but taking the discussion immediately into alternate lines), and playing purposefully dense or outright trolling. So that lowers my inclination to collect the studies from think tanks that highlight the easily observable trends. I'll respond to PMs if you want books or topics to expand your historical awareness. It really has to come from within and it will involve more openness.

On October 18 2017 11:09 Nebuchad wrote:
What do you think about the good faith claim that if the establishment media lost its bias, it would be harsher to republicans than it is today, Danglars?

On October 18 2017 11:45 Aquanim wrote:

You can call me names, but you're not only talking to me - everybody who reads this thread sees what you have to say.

If you're interested in convincing any of them, then it seems to me that you would be best served by providing evidence for assertions that other posters in the thread disagree with.

On October 18 2017 10:07 Aquanim wrote:

Are you claiming that Democrats and Democratic candidates are treated by "the media" in a qualitatively different way? Do you have evidence to support that claim?

On October 18 2017 11:56 Danglars wrote:

You should pay more attention. I read what you and others say in the forum to determine if I should waste time laying out a case. If you show the patterns, and dare I say objectively bad faith trolly patterns, then I know you aren't willing to be convinced of anything you don't already believe in.

I'll merely outline the opposing point of view because this thread serves as a constant reminder that you haven't a clue what conservatives believe or why. The parodies of the other side are breathtakingly ignorant.

On October 18 2017 12:01 GoTuNk! wrote:


You can't be serious.

On October 18 2017 10:39 Aquanim wrote:

As somebody who doesn't reside in your country, I don't have my finger on the pulse of American media as a whole.

I expect I can find somebody else in this thread who would say "if you didn't observe that 'right-wing media' lies a lot more about Democrats than 'left-wing media' does about Republicans, then the problem is your cognitive dissonance".

As such I require solid (and in particular non-anecdotal) evidence that any systematic trend you (or anybody else) claim exists actually does exist before I attach any meaningful weight to any such statements on the matter.

It seems likely that anybody else you might hope to convince here would require a similar standard of substantiation. The mere fact that you have one of "two worldviews" is not a meaningful statement about the worth of your worldview.

On October 18 2017 12:17 IgnE wrote:

When Danglars refers to "media" he is not talking about Fox news or Rush Limbaugh or any of the conservative media apparatus. He means Hollywood and CNN.

On October 18 2017 12:10 Aquanim wrote:
I'm perfectly serious. Can you provide (non-anecdotal) evidence to support that claim?

On October 18 2017 12:25 Tachion wrote:

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/304606-final-newspaper-endorsement-count-clinton-57-trump-2
Does that count?

Don't be mistaken though, just because I think the overall media is biased doesn't mean that I don't think that bias is well deserved. In fact I think it's necessary. Trump is abhorrent and breaks societal norms for the worse. Any criticism he receives for his poor performance and behavior can be properly justified.

On October 18 2017 12:31 Buckyman wrote:
"Hey, media? This is the Republicans speaking. We know you think our presidential candidate is disgusting and rude. You know what? You're right. We tried running a polite and honorable candidate last time and you slandered him right out of the election. So if you call anyone we put forward a literal Nazi, don't be surprised when we run a candidate you can't make this stuff up about."

Donald Trump on Tuesday doubled down on his claim that Barack Obama did not routinely call the families of servicemen and women killed in battle. He also warned John McCain, a decorated war hero with whom he has clashed before, that he might “fight back” after the senator said America’s “leadership and ideals are absent”.

Regarding Obama’s contacts with the families of fallen troops, Trump directed inquiries to his chief of staff. John Kelly’s son, like the retired general a US marine, died in Afghanistan in 2010.

“I think I’ve called every family of someone who’s died,” Trump told Brian Kilmeade of Fox News Radio. “As far as other representatives, I don’t know. You could ask General Kelly, did he get a call from Obama?”

A White House official told the Associated Press Obama did not call Kelly. The official did not immediately respond to questions about whether the former president reached out in another fashion.

The AP also reported, however, that White House visitor records showed Kelly attended a breakfast Obama hosted for Gold Star families six months after his son died. A person familiar with the breakfast – speaking on condition of anonymity because the event was private – said the Kelly family sat at Michelle Obama’s table.

Obama aides said it was difficult to determine whether he had also called Kelly, and when. But the former Obama spokesman Ned Price reacted angrily to Trump’s comments.

“Kelly, a man of honor & decency, should stop this inane cruelty,” Price tweeted. “He saw up-close just how – & how much – Obama cared for the fallen’s families.”

Trump first made the claim in a press conference in the White House Rose Garden on Monday, when he was asked why he had not yet commented publicly about four special forces soldiers who were killed in Niger last week.
“If you look at President Obama and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls,” Trump said. “A lot of them didn’t make calls. I like to call when it’s appropriate.”

Pressed, he softened his claim a little. “President Obama, I think, probably did sometimes, and maybe sometimes he didn’t,” he said. “I don’t know. That’s what I was told. Other presidents did not call, they’d write letters. And some presidents didn’t do anything.”

Former Obama aides were quick to criticise Trump. Eric Holder, one of Obama’s attorneys general, said on Twitter: “Stop the damn lying – you’re the president.” Alyssa Mastromonaco, Obama’s former deputy chief of staff, responded strongly. She wrote: “That’s a fucking lie. To say President Obama (or past presidents) didn’t call the family members of soldiers KIA – he’s a deranged animal.”

The former White House press secretary Josh Earnest, now an MSNBC commentator, told the network past Republican and Democratic presidents had recognized their duty to honor soldiers’ sacrifices and not highlight their own actions.