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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42701 Posts
October 06 2017 20:23 GMT
#178861
On October 07 2017 04:50 sc-darkness wrote:
Why are employers concerned with birth control in the first place? Shouldn't this be the job of pharmacies? Either way, this is a step back what Trump did.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41528526

In the US employers bulk buy healthcare packages and then distribute them to their employees as a benefit. They're not easily affordable outside of that mechanism and therefore you are at the mercy of what your employer thinks healthcare should look like.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
October 06 2017 20:40 GMT
#178862
On October 07 2017 05:14 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2017 04:56 Danglars wrote:
On October 07 2017 04:50 sc-darkness wrote:
Why are employers concerned with birth control in the first place? Shouldn't this be the job of pharmacies? Either way, this is a step back what Trump did.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41528526

They wouldn't be concerned if people didn't make political hay out of "They must be absolutely FREE under any health insurance plan" rather than "They're medicine, pay your normal co-pay." The ACA changed that. An earlier pope said it was an evil (sinful), and some conscientious Catholics don't like the idea of their owned organization forced to fully subsidize them.

It isn't good PR to fine a bunch of nuns because they conflict on the new regs on health plans.

The real reason they want it to be free is to limit unwanted pregnancies. Poverty causes problems with paying for little things like birth control.


That's only part of the problem. The other part is they're sometimes medically important for quality of life for things like endometriosis.
Logo
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-06 21:36:07
October 06 2017 20:51 GMT
#178863
FREMONT, Calif.— Tesla Inc. TSLA 0.44% blamed “production bottlenecks” for having made only a fraction of the promised 1,500 Model 3s, the $35,000 sedan designed to propel the luxury electric-car maker into the mainstream.

Unknown to analysts, investors and the hundreds of thousands of customers who signed up to buy it, as recently as early September major portions of the Model 3 were still being banged out by hand, away from the automated production line, according to people familiar with the matter.

+ Show Spoiler [rest of article] +
While the car’s production began in early July, the advanced assembly line Tesla has boasted of building still wasn’t fully ready as of a few weeks ago, the people said. Tesla’s factory workers had been piecing together parts of the cars in a special area while the company feverishly worked to finish the machinery designed to produce Model 3’s at a rate of thousands a week, the people said.

Automotive experts say it is unusual to be building large parts of a car by hand during production. “That’s not how mass production vehicles are made,” said Dennis Virag, a manufacturing consultant who has worked in the automotive industry for 40 years. “That’s horse-and-carriage type manufacturing. That’s not today’s automotive world.”

In a statement, a Tesla spokeswoman declined to answer questions for this article and said, “For over a decade, the WSJ has relentlessly attacked Tesla with misleading articles that, with few exceptions, push or exceed the boundaries of journalistic integrity. While it is possible that this article could be an exception, that is extremely unlikely.” The Journal disagrees with the company’s categorization of its journalism.

Tesla introduced the Model 3 at an event outside the company’s factory in July, when Chief Executive Elon Musk drove a shiny red Model 3 onstage as hundreds of his employees cheered the first sedans rolling off the production line.

Within minutes of stepping out of the new vehicle, Tesla’s leader warned his engineers and designers the coming months would be challenging. “Frankly, we’re going to be in production hell. Welcome, welcome!” he said to laughter.

Behind the scenes, Tesla had fallen weeks behind in finishing the manufacturing systems to build the vehicle, the people said.

The extent of the problem came to light on Monday when Tesla said it made only 260 Model 3s during the third quarter—averaging three cars a day. The company cited production bottlenecks but didn’t explain much further.

“Although the vast majority of manufacturing subsystems at...our California car plant...are able to operate at high rate, a handful have taken longer to activate than expected,” the company said at the time.

In Mr. Musk’s pursuit to rid the world of combustion engines, Tesla is trying to apply Silicon Valley’s ethos of rapid change to the type of complex manufacturing process that traditional auto makers have spent decades perfecting. Unusual in the U.S. tech industry, where even companies that do make hardware generally outsource their manufacturing, Tesla’s challenge requires integrating an army of factory workers and some 10,000 parts from suppliers around the world.

Tesla’s rollout of the Model X sport-utility vehicle in 2015 also was plagued by quality and design issues that left suppliers scrambling and hourly workers having to rush to meet lofty goals. But the plans for the Model 3 are far larger, meaning the lack of a fully working assembling line so late in production could deal a bigger blow to the company.

Mr. Musk has said Tesla learned from the Model X mistakes. And he has proven doubters wrong before, creating a luxury brand that competes against BMW and Mercedes-Benz for buyers and has demonstrated that fully electric cars can find an enthusiastic following beyond a niche of environmentalists.

Calling his cars a “computer on wheels,” Mr. Musk caught conservative Detroit off guard with Tesla’s ability to quickly change features, such as a semiautonomous drive system, with software updates over the air. The company’s stock has soared about 69% in the past 12 months, at times pushing its market value past General Motors Co.’s .

But building 500,000 vehicles a year—as Mr. Musk had projected Tesla would start doing next year—is a sizable leap for a company that only made 84,000 Model S sedans and Model X SUVs last year. By comparison, General Motors Co., the largest U.S. auto maker by sales, delivered about 10 million vehicles globally last year, or more than 27,000 a day.

To approach what a typical factory in North America churns out, 14-year-old Tesla must build the muscles to roll out a car every minute of the workday and do it so well that the vehicles don’t cause headaches for customers down the road.

Most auto makers celebrate the start of production of a new vehicle to sell—so-called Job 1—after six months or so of running the assembly line to build a few hundred vehicles to work out the bugs, said Doug Betts, senior vice president of global automotive operations at consultancy J.D. Power and a former manufacturing executive for Toyota Motor Corp. , Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV and Apple Inc.

“You’re not really improving the final process if you’re not running on it,” Mr. Betts said. “Problems can only be solved once they are found.”

It isn’t uncommon for much larger auto makers to handbuild pre-production versions of a car prior to the sales launch, but those are typically reserved for employees and others willing to test the cars and return them to the company. By the time a car goes on sale, the body shop is typically fully automated.

Inside the Fremont factory, workers said equipment for the so-called body-in-white line for the Model 3, where the car body’s sheet metal is welded together, wasn’t installed until by around September. They guessed at least another month of work remained to calibrate the tools.

One worker who spent time in the Model 3 shop—dubbed by some as Area 51 because of the limited access and secretive nature—described watching young workers in September struggling to move large pieces of steel to weld together instead of using robots as is traditionally the case.

“In place of the robots…you’ve got two associates lining up with a big, old spot welder hanging from the ceiling by a chain, and you’ve got one associate kind of like balancing it and trying to get the welder in position, and you’ve got another welder with his arm guiding it,” this worker recalled seeing. “Sparks go flying.”

In August, Mr. Musk told analysts that the Model 3s coming out of the factory were “not engineering validation units.”

“They’re fully certified, fully DOT-approved, EPA-approved production cars,” Mr. Musk said, referring to the Department of Transportation and the Environmental Protection Agency. “These are not prototypes in any way. They’re not validation anything. They are full production cars.”

But he also said early versions coming out of Fremont would have issues, which is why the first cars were going to employees and investors who paid for them.

Tesla has said it expects to begin delivering the first cars to nonemployees this quarter. It will have to seriously boost production to meet Mr. Musk’s 5,000-a-week projection.


Source

don't worry though, elon is gonna fix puerto rico with batteries and solar power.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 06 2017 20:51 GMT
#178864
On October 07 2017 05:40 Logo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2017 05:14 Plansix wrote:
On October 07 2017 04:56 Danglars wrote:
On October 07 2017 04:50 sc-darkness wrote:
Why are employers concerned with birth control in the first place? Shouldn't this be the job of pharmacies? Either way, this is a step back what Trump did.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41528526

They wouldn't be concerned if people didn't make political hay out of "They must be absolutely FREE under any health insurance plan" rather than "They're medicine, pay your normal co-pay." The ACA changed that. An earlier pope said it was an evil (sinful), and some conscientious Catholics don't like the idea of their owned organization forced to fully subsidize them.

It isn't good PR to fine a bunch of nuns because they conflict on the new regs on health plans.

The real reason they want it to be free is to limit unwanted pregnancies. Poverty causes problems with paying for little things like birth control.


That's only part of the problem. The other part is they're sometimes medically important for quality of life for things like endometriosis.

Yeah, they should consider renaming it, since it is prescribed long before someone becomes sexually active.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 06 2017 21:12 GMT
#178865


I think this tax plan is pretty doomed.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
October 06 2017 21:30 GMT
#178866
On October 07 2017 04:37 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2017 04:32 Wulfey_LA wrote:
Some 25 year old video editor banged out that video in 3 hours to make the deadline. He obviously reused the best 3D model of an 'assault weapon' style AR15 he could find. The CNN video guys don't have the skills or time to generate their own 3D renderings of accurate bump stocks. That Gunners/Cons insist on shitlording and pedanting on these minor graphical details reveal the weaknesses of their underlying arguments.

This hits the nail on the head. People are really getting bent out of shape about the quality of CNNs quickly slapped together graphics. I get it, we all played halflife and CoD, so we know what an under barrel grenade launcher is, so its bothers people a bit. But this nit picking at its finest.


This would be a defense, if the media was fairly accurate in its gun coverage otherwise. It is not, and routinely they don't know what an assault weapon/rifle/automatic/semiautomatic is.
Freeeeeeedom
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13938 Posts
October 06 2017 21:38 GMT
#178867
On October 07 2017 06:30 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2017 04:37 Plansix wrote:
On October 07 2017 04:32 Wulfey_LA wrote:
Some 25 year old video editor banged out that video in 3 hours to make the deadline. He obviously reused the best 3D model of an 'assault weapon' style AR15 he could find. The CNN video guys don't have the skills or time to generate their own 3D renderings of accurate bump stocks. That Gunners/Cons insist on shitlording and pedanting on these minor graphical details reveal the weaknesses of their underlying arguments.

This hits the nail on the head. People are really getting bent out of shape about the quality of CNNs quickly slapped together graphics. I get it, we all played halflife and CoD, so we know what an under barrel grenade launcher is, so its bothers people a bit. But this nit picking at its finest.


This would be a defense, if the media was fairly accurate in its gun coverage otherwise. It is not, and routinely they don't know what an assault weapon/rifle/automatic/semiautomatic is.

I think 98%+ of the time they know what it is because they do research like a professional like they do in any other story they do. activists and politicians have some pretty regrettable soundbites but i'm sure even they get corrected by their staff afterwords.

The problem is that people pay 98%+ of their attention on the 2% where they're either rushed or think that they're right already. someone asked a tech guy to make a graphic in a few seconds and that was the only ar-15 model that he could find.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
October 06 2017 21:41 GMT
#178868
On October 07 2017 05:12 Wulfey_LA wrote:
Why can't you see that the narrative is bullshit? I cited stacks of CNN articles that showed literal firing of bump stocks and accurate images. Yet you and the clickservative twitter latch onto 3D models in one video. Do you not see what you are doing? You know the narrative is bullshit, but you try to spread it anyways. This is all you.

EDIT: if you (Danglars) listen to the audio, the video accurately describes the function of bump stocks. This 'libs don't know about guns so they can't regulate guns' narrative is a top to bottom lie. The CNN articles demonstrated precise and accurate research on bump stocks. Yet you insist on trying to push it because of a rushed 3D model.

It's pretty telling that instead of admitting he posted something with no source, and that it was stupid to post it and try to make some scathing statement about how awful CNN is, he prefers to start an all-out argument about whether certain people know what a bump stock really looks like. Which has nothing to do with what he posted and its lack of veracity, or indeed any source whatsoever.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 06 2017 21:41 GMT
#178869
On October 07 2017 06:30 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2017 04:37 Plansix wrote:
On October 07 2017 04:32 Wulfey_LA wrote:
Some 25 year old video editor banged out that video in 3 hours to make the deadline. He obviously reused the best 3D model of an 'assault weapon' style AR15 he could find. The CNN video guys don't have the skills or time to generate their own 3D renderings of accurate bump stocks. That Gunners/Cons insist on shitlording and pedanting on these minor graphical details reveal the weaknesses of their underlying arguments.

This hits the nail on the head. People are really getting bent out of shape about the quality of CNNs quickly slapped together graphics. I get it, we all played halflife and CoD, so we know what an under barrel grenade launcher is, so its bothers people a bit. But this nit picking at its finest.


This would be a defense, if the media was fairly accurate in its gun coverage otherwise. It is not, and routinely they don't know what an assault weapon/rifle/automatic/semiautomatic is.

The media is a huge group and some of them get it right. CNN has been bad for a while now, so this isn’t anything new. They also do a really bad job reporting on lawsuits and filling in key details like “who filed the motion?” and “What the fuck court is this case in?” The stories should be run with a disclaimer that says Lexis Nexus account needed to be truly informed after this piece.

Seriously, I could go on Breitbart right now, find some hot bullshit and post it here for everyone to point at laugh at. Any criticism of their work would be valid. But I don’t because it’s a waste of everyone’s time.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 06 2017 21:59 GMT
#178870
On October 07 2017 06:41 NewSunshine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2017 05:12 Wulfey_LA wrote:
Why can't you see that the narrative is bullshit? I cited stacks of CNN articles that showed literal firing of bump stocks and accurate images. Yet you and the clickservative twitter latch onto 3D models in one video. Do you not see what you are doing? You know the narrative is bullshit, but you try to spread it anyways. This is all you.

EDIT: if you (Danglars) listen to the audio, the video accurately describes the function of bump stocks. This 'libs don't know about guns so they can't regulate guns' narrative is a top to bottom lie. The CNN articles demonstrated precise and accurate research on bump stocks. Yet you insist on trying to push it because of a rushed 3D model.

It's pretty telling that instead of admitting he posted something with no source, and that it was stupid to post it and try to make some scathing statement about how awful CNN is, he prefers to start an all-out argument about whether certain people know what a bump stock really looks like. Which has nothing to do with what he posted and its lack of veracity, or indeed any source whatsoever.

Source was CNN live cable channel. I made specific statements on areas that CNN needs to do better in, and only general statements as it comes to the media reporting in general on gun control. Now, all I hear is sputtering like you want to claim it's all fabricated ("any source") and when someone here usefully found out what a bump stock looks like ("whether certain people know what a bump stock really looks like"). The usual attacking of who posted stuff rather than what was posted followed, with a smattering of wild accusations and zero retractions. But sum this up according to whatever storyline you wish to invent, NewSunshine.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
October 06 2017 22:06 GMT
#178871
On October 07 2017 06:59 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2017 06:41 NewSunshine wrote:
On October 07 2017 05:12 Wulfey_LA wrote:
Why can't you see that the narrative is bullshit? I cited stacks of CNN articles that showed literal firing of bump stocks and accurate images. Yet you and the clickservative twitter latch onto 3D models in one video. Do you not see what you are doing? You know the narrative is bullshit, but you try to spread it anyways. This is all you.

EDIT: if you (Danglars) listen to the audio, the video accurately describes the function of bump stocks. This 'libs don't know about guns so they can't regulate guns' narrative is a top to bottom lie. The CNN articles demonstrated precise and accurate research on bump stocks. Yet you insist on trying to push it because of a rushed 3D model.

It's pretty telling that instead of admitting he posted something with no source, and that it was stupid to post it and try to make some scathing statement about how awful CNN is, he prefers to start an all-out argument about whether certain people know what a bump stock really looks like. Which has nothing to do with what he posted and its lack of veracity, or indeed any source whatsoever.

Source was CNN live cable channel. I made specific statements on areas that CNN needs to do better in, and only general statements as it comes to the media reporting in general on gun control. Now, all I hear is sputtering like you want to claim it's all fabricated ("any source") and when someone here usefully found out what a bump stock looks like ("whether certain people know what a bump stock really looks like"). The usual attacking of who posted stuff rather than what was posted followed, with a smattering of wild accusations and zero retractions. But sum this up according to whatever storyline you wish to invent, NewSunshine.

Dude, you rushed to a conclusion. You posted some tweet about CNN's journalism that, if you followed up properly, would've seen had no meat to it. Any point that could be made about CNN afterward is secondary to the fact that you rushed to fling shit at CNN before you actually knew what was up. If you could just be bothered to admit you messed up and move on, half this discussion wouldn't have had to happen.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 06 2017 22:10 GMT
#178872
On October 07 2017 07:06 NewSunshine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2017 06:59 Danglars wrote:
On October 07 2017 06:41 NewSunshine wrote:
On October 07 2017 05:12 Wulfey_LA wrote:
Why can't you see that the narrative is bullshit? I cited stacks of CNN articles that showed literal firing of bump stocks and accurate images. Yet you and the clickservative twitter latch onto 3D models in one video. Do you not see what you are doing? You know the narrative is bullshit, but you try to spread it anyways. This is all you.

EDIT: if you (Danglars) listen to the audio, the video accurately describes the function of bump stocks. This 'libs don't know about guns so they can't regulate guns' narrative is a top to bottom lie. The CNN articles demonstrated precise and accurate research on bump stocks. Yet you insist on trying to push it because of a rushed 3D model.

It's pretty telling that instead of admitting he posted something with no source, and that it was stupid to post it and try to make some scathing statement about how awful CNN is, he prefers to start an all-out argument about whether certain people know what a bump stock really looks like. Which has nothing to do with what he posted and its lack of veracity, or indeed any source whatsoever.

Source was CNN live cable channel. I made specific statements on areas that CNN needs to do better in, and only general statements as it comes to the media reporting in general on gun control. Now, all I hear is sputtering like you want to claim it's all fabricated ("any source") and when someone here usefully found out what a bump stock looks like ("whether certain people know what a bump stock really looks like"). The usual attacking of who posted stuff rather than what was posted followed, with a smattering of wild accusations and zero retractions. But sum this up according to whatever storyline you wish to invent, NewSunshine.

Dude, you rushed to a conclusion. You posted some tweet about CNN's journalism that, if you followed up properly, would've seen had no meat to it. Any point that could be made about CNN afterward is secondary to the fact that you rushed to fling shit at CNN before you actually knew what was up. If you could just be bothered to admit you messed up and move on, half this discussion wouldn't have had to happen.

One source that Live CNN showed that. Second source found when Wulfey went off half-cocked about how it was all lies. I trust that reporter to not full-on invent a CNN segment since I've seen other articles by him and he comes from an online publication as old as HuffPo. Now, I don't know if you're falsely asserting the source is wrong, or falsely asserting "there was no meat to it," or just wish to convolute the discussion so nobody remembers they showed a rifle without a bump stock on a piece about bump stocks. Whatever game you're playing, just lay off it dude. Or post some content and substance rather than these third party reference wrap-ups that skips over it all.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9651 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-06 22:16:45
October 06 2017 22:16 GMT
#178873
Has there been any discussion of this article on here yet?
https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/heres-how-breitbart-and-milo-smuggled-white-nationalism?

In August, after a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville ended in murder, Steve Bannon insisted that "there's no room in American society" for neo-Nazis, neo-Confederates, and the KKK.

But an explosive cache of documents obtained by BuzzFeed News proves that there was plenty of room for those voices on his website.

During the 2016 presidential campaign, under Bannon’s leadership, Breitbart courted the alt-right — the insurgent, racist right-wing movement that helped sweep Donald Trump to power. The former White House chief strategist famously remarked that he wanted Breitbart to be “the platform for the alt-right.”


Its a very long article so I'm not going to quote it all here, but it is the origin of that video of Milo singing while his mate Spencer does a nazi salute. (The "I couldn't see them doing it because of x illness" video, aka the "they were doing it in a kind of jokey way" video)

There's plenty to discuss in it, although I'm not sure anyone on this forum is far gone enough to put any stock in anything Breitbart and their group of professional trolls has to say.
RIP Meatloaf <3
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-06 22:19:21
October 06 2017 22:18 GMT
#178874
You missed out on the Vox Day, western culture an the 14 words discussion. It was, stunning at the time. And by "at the time", I mean a couple months ago. Needless to say, this thread has felt the effects of Breibart and Milo's efforts.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
October 06 2017 22:21 GMT
#178875
On October 06 2017 13:09 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2017 12:19 mierin wrote:
On September 27 2017 07:31 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 27 2017 07:23 xDaunt wrote:
On September 27 2017 06:15 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 27 2017 06:08 NewSunshine wrote:
On September 27 2017 06:07 RealityIsKing wrote:
On September 27 2017 06:04 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 27 2017 06:02 RealityIsKing wrote:
On September 27 2017 05:58 NewSunshine wrote:
[quote]
It's not a discomfort fetish, it's a simple recognition of the fact that if you try to protest in a way that doesn't upset people, it won't get you anywhere. It's a very simple logical chain. If people are perpetuating an oppressive status quo, especially if it's by choice, saying something that doesn't upset these people in the context of the status quo almost necessarily means you're not actually addressing any issues. You're not trying to upset people just to upset them, you simply have to recognize that when you're out protesting and spreading your message, people are going to be upset with you.


Are you saying that the only way to get across your point is to upset people?

I thought we live in a civilized society where people can calmly look at the situation, not get emotional, and mitigating collateral damage.


Turns out you can't address white privilege without melting some snowflakes.


But you can minimize it.

People don't even attempt to be logical and go straight emotional to get their message across. Its the same thing as those religious people that goes "God hates fags! You are going to hell!".

Except you are condoning it, because it is from the "right side".

People would take you a lot more seriously if you argued with their points, and not strawmen set up to be exaggerated versions of their points. Maybe people do what you say. Don't take them seriously.


No I wouldn't. It's clear he's arguing from a staggeringly ignorant place and that ignorance is only matched by his confidence in that ignorance.

@"Calling out racists is counterproductive crowd":

You realize using that logic there is absolutely no reason that black people should want their white opposition to enjoy the same rights they do? If being called "racist" is supposed to be a remotely legitimate reason for not wanting black people to have the same rights there's a long list of worse shit for black people.

I mean xDaunt you told me to "get back on a boat back to Africa", of course I wouldn't know what part since white Amerikkka stripped my lineage of any history or context with Africa, destroyed my family lines, and killed any of us that they found smart enough to advocate their own freedom.

Here's the thing, despite calling oppressed people "vermin", or telling black people like myself or Coats they should get on a boat back to Africa, or claiming racism isn't a big deal, I still think xDaunt deserves the same rights I should have because I'm not a petty elementary school child.


The great tragedy here is is that I understand and even accept the bolded part above, but we can't get to a discussion on how to deal with it given the toxicity that the Left injects into the debate.


Suck it up Suzy, and do the work.

On September 27 2017 07:30 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On September 27 2017 07:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 27 2017 07:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On September 27 2017 07:15 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 27 2017 07:13 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On September 27 2017 07:12 NewSunshine wrote:
On September 27 2017 07:02 Danglars wrote:
[quote]
You're still confusing what you have the right to do, and what forms of protest advance or hurt the cause. When a lawyer represents a client clearly guilty of the murder, we don't say he's pro-murder or is apathetic about murderers. But when it's neonazis marching in the streets, suddenly free speech and free assembly go out the window. It's a clear poisoning of the debate.

Nope, it's just hypocritical for you to defend the rights of Nazis to speak on one hand, and on the other cry out that NFL players taking a knee is disrespectful to the country, and that they should just play the game.

does the average american consider Ben Shapiro a nazi, white-supremacist?


I'd suspect not. He does help advance arguments that aid in keeping white supremacy structures in place though.

On September 27 2017 07:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On September 27 2017 07:12 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 27 2017 06:59 m4ini wrote:
[quote]

I always find this part mindbogglingly idiotic.

Yeah. I will see your viewpoint, and on top of that, i will not give the slightest of shits because i'm pissed off since you potentially make me miss an important meeting/job interview/doctors appointment/prevent me from picking up my kids from school.

It's like arguing that to get the attention of a police officer, instead of calling him over you should throw sticks at him. Yeah, you will get his attention, but not the way you intended to - and certainly not the reaction you apparently expected either.

Interrupting the lives of people who have nothing to do with whatever you're protesting will not help your cause, it will in fact hurt it. The people in traffic will get pissed off, and your opposition to whatever you're advocating will have a field day pointing out what a menace you are to the public.

[quote]

No, it really isn't. It's not like everyone lives a perfect white persons life, people have their own problems too. But it's a very suiting way for you to argue, "if you get angry because people fuck up your day, YOU are the problem". Fuck off.


lol. See? You're angry about me pointing out getting angry and irrational about a traffic protest indicates that you don't appreciate why they are protesting in the first place.

If you did, then you would expect them to do much worse than interrupt traffic.

On September 27 2017 07:04 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
[quote]
why do non-white people continue to flock to the USA if things are so bad?
i have a close friend and colleague who is iranian. he went from Baghdad to Toronto. His first decent job offer in New York state and he is gone. Guy was making $10,000 USD a month in Toronto... and he couldn't leave fast enough.
or is Iranian considered white? are jews white? my gf has 4 great parents who are white and 4 who are non-white. is she white? is white just a social construct?


Legally, yes, Iranian is white. Jews pass for white all the time.

Yes white is a social construct meant to dehumanize and subjugate those deemed "non-white".

The US and other influential countries have exploited lots of places around the world, it would make sense for the people to want to follow where the wealth generated from their country went (and would also make sense why they try to send it back).

how much wealth is Syria generating these days?

For the MIC? Billions.

so should Ben Shapiro be free to speak?
great, if the Syrians do not like it here in Canada they can leave. if they commit crimes they go to jail.


Sure, and people should be able to protest his speaking.

I literally have no idea where this Syrians in Canada thing is coming from but I imagine that's an option for some and less so for others. I mean that's how it usually works for poor people (the wealthy or connected not as much, but I can't speak much to Canada's justice system).

Considering the minimal information I know about indigenous people of Canada, I can imagine you guys have you're own problems with bigotry, though different than the US.

everything here is just fine. people who want to be lifelong victims can find a reason to complain about anything though.


I doubt that, but I don't doubt your sincerity in believing it.

EDIT: For instance, this sounds kinda familiar:

A Canadian government minister has suggested that as many as 4,000 indigenous women have gone missing or been murdered over the past three decades.

Patricia Hajdu, minister for the status of women, said research from the Native Women’s Association of Canada put the figure much higher than the 1,200 mentioned in a 2014 report by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP).

Hadju said a lack of hard data made it almost impossible to reach an accurate figure but 4,000 could be correct because of a history of police underreporting murders or failing to investigate suspicious deaths.


Source


Can you admit that maybe white ppl like me are so poor they are threatened to be evicted every month? Even while working as hard as they can with 12+ hour days? The issue I'm concerned with is socioeconomic, not racial. And until someone can point me to a black person making what I make struggling with more than I struggle with...I have my wages garnished every month by college loans. Honestly I'd rather be shot and killed by a cop than live in my god forsaken existence right now.


No I get it. But you also exemplify pretty well why the "colorblind" approach suggested by many "moderates" wouldn't work. "The issue you are concerned with is socioeconomic" which means once that part is resolved, your motivation for the necessity of reform fades. Meaning both socioeconomically and at the hands of the justice system PoC can continue to be oppressed and abused while the problem becomes a faded stain for folks like yourself.

Remember, it wasn't long ago when people on the left and the right would perpetuate the "it's not a big problem, look at the FBI stats" lie. If Black people stop focusing on the disproportionate abuse they suffer, so will white people. If there wasn't a problem for white people, then there wouldn't be "a problem" anymore.

Look at the very argument "you'll never convince them only talking about how police abuse Black people!" It's saying right in the argument "if this get's fixed for us we won't need to be your ally anymore".

Show nested quote +
On October 06 2017 12:02 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:


It's far more extraordinary for the president to call one out than for a Governor to do it.


That's a great point--and if I'm honest with myself I don't know what I'd do were my situation to be resolved. I'd like to think I'd still care. It just seems like for someone in my position, voting (whatever difference that can make) seems to be the only way I can try to change how things are, regardless of how much I want to. At my job I treat my black clients just the same as I do my white ones--it seems like if everyone unilaterally decided to do that things would improve.
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15690 Posts
October 06 2017 22:21 GMT
#178876
On October 07 2017 05:51 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
FREMONT, Calif.— Tesla Inc. TSLA 0.44% blamed “production bottlenecks” for having made only a fraction of the promised 1,500 Model 3s, the $35,000 sedan designed to propel the luxury electric-car maker into the mainstream.

Unknown to analysts, investors and the hundreds of thousands of customers who signed up to buy it, as recently as early September major portions of the Model 3 were still being banged out by hand, away from the automated production line, according to people familiar with the matter.

+ Show Spoiler [rest of article] +
While the car’s production began in early July, the advanced assembly line Tesla has boasted of building still wasn’t fully ready as of a few weeks ago, the people said. Tesla’s factory workers had been piecing together parts of the cars in a special area while the company feverishly worked to finish the machinery designed to produce Model 3’s at a rate of thousands a week, the people said.

Automotive experts say it is unusual to be building large parts of a car by hand during production. “That’s not how mass production vehicles are made,” said Dennis Virag, a manufacturing consultant who has worked in the automotive industry for 40 years. “That’s horse-and-carriage type manufacturing. That’s not today’s automotive world.”

In a statement, a Tesla spokeswoman declined to answer questions for this article and said, “For over a decade, the WSJ has relentlessly attacked Tesla with misleading articles that, with few exceptions, push or exceed the boundaries of journalistic integrity. While it is possible that this article could be an exception, that is extremely unlikely.” The Journal disagrees with the company’s categorization of its journalism.

Tesla introduced the Model 3 at an event outside the company’s factory in July, when Chief Executive Elon Musk drove a shiny red Model 3 onstage as hundreds of his employees cheered the first sedans rolling off the production line.

Within minutes of stepping out of the new vehicle, Tesla’s leader warned his engineers and designers the coming months would be challenging. “Frankly, we’re going to be in production hell. Welcome, welcome!” he said to laughter.

Behind the scenes, Tesla had fallen weeks behind in finishing the manufacturing systems to build the vehicle, the people said.

The extent of the problem came to light on Monday when Tesla said it made only 260 Model 3s during the third quarter—averaging three cars a day. The company cited production bottlenecks but didn’t explain much further.

“Although the vast majority of manufacturing subsystems at...our California car plant...are able to operate at high rate, a handful have taken longer to activate than expected,” the company said at the time.

In Mr. Musk’s pursuit to rid the world of combustion engines, Tesla is trying to apply Silicon Valley’s ethos of rapid change to the type of complex manufacturing process that traditional auto makers have spent decades perfecting. Unusual in the U.S. tech industry, where even companies that do make hardware generally outsource their manufacturing, Tesla’s challenge requires integrating an army of factory workers and some 10,000 parts from suppliers around the world.

Tesla’s rollout of the Model X sport-utility vehicle in 2015 also was plagued by quality and design issues that left suppliers scrambling and hourly workers having to rush to meet lofty goals. But the plans for the Model 3 are far larger, meaning the lack of a fully working assembling line so late in production could deal a bigger blow to the company.

Mr. Musk has said Tesla learned from the Model X mistakes. And he has proven doubters wrong before, creating a luxury brand that competes against BMW and Mercedes-Benz for buyers and has demonstrated that fully electric cars can find an enthusiastic following beyond a niche of environmentalists.

Calling his cars a “computer on wheels,” Mr. Musk caught conservative Detroit off guard with Tesla’s ability to quickly change features, such as a semiautonomous drive system, with software updates over the air. The company’s stock has soared about 69% in the past 12 months, at times pushing its market value past General Motors Co.’s .

But building 500,000 vehicles a year—as Mr. Musk had projected Tesla would start doing next year—is a sizable leap for a company that only made 84,000 Model S sedans and Model X SUVs last year. By comparison, General Motors Co., the largest U.S. auto maker by sales, delivered about 10 million vehicles globally last year, or more than 27,000 a day.

To approach what a typical factory in North America churns out, 14-year-old Tesla must build the muscles to roll out a car every minute of the workday and do it so well that the vehicles don’t cause headaches for customers down the road.

Most auto makers celebrate the start of production of a new vehicle to sell—so-called Job 1—after six months or so of running the assembly line to build a few hundred vehicles to work out the bugs, said Doug Betts, senior vice president of global automotive operations at consultancy J.D. Power and a former manufacturing executive for Toyota Motor Corp. , Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV and Apple Inc.

“You’re not really improving the final process if you’re not running on it,” Mr. Betts said. “Problems can only be solved once they are found.”

It isn’t uncommon for much larger auto makers to handbuild pre-production versions of a car prior to the sales launch, but those are typically reserved for employees and others willing to test the cars and return them to the company. By the time a car goes on sale, the body shop is typically fully automated.

Inside the Fremont factory, workers said equipment for the so-called body-in-white line for the Model 3, where the car body’s sheet metal is welded together, wasn’t installed until by around September. They guessed at least another month of work remained to calibrate the tools.

One worker who spent time in the Model 3 shop—dubbed by some as Area 51 because of the limited access and secretive nature—described watching young workers in September struggling to move large pieces of steel to weld together instead of using robots as is traditionally the case.

“In place of the robots…you’ve got two associates lining up with a big, old spot welder hanging from the ceiling by a chain, and you’ve got one associate kind of like balancing it and trying to get the welder in position, and you’ve got another welder with his arm guiding it,” this worker recalled seeing. “Sparks go flying.”

In August, Mr. Musk told analysts that the Model 3s coming out of the factory were “not engineering validation units.”

“They’re fully certified, fully DOT-approved, EPA-approved production cars,” Mr. Musk said, referring to the Department of Transportation and the Environmental Protection Agency. “These are not prototypes in any way. They’re not validation anything. They are full production cars.”

But he also said early versions coming out of Fremont would have issues, which is why the first cars were going to employees and investors who paid for them.

Tesla has said it expects to begin delivering the first cars to nonemployees this quarter. It will have to seriously boost production to meet Mr. Musk’s 5,000-a-week projection.


Source

don't worry though, elon is gonna fix puerto rico with batteries and solar power.



lmao. "We blame lack of manufacturing on a lack of manufacturing."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15690 Posts
October 06 2017 22:22 GMT
#178877
On October 07 2017 07:18 Plansix wrote:
You missed out on the Vox Day, western culture an the 14 words discussion. It was, stunning at the time. And by "at the time", I mean a couple months ago. Needless to say, this thread has felt the effects of Breibart and Milo's efforts.


Turns out appeals to nature aren't actually good arguments. Whodathunkit.
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9651 Posts
October 06 2017 22:24 GMT
#178878
On October 07 2017 07:18 Plansix wrote:
You missed out on the Vox Day, western culture an the 14 words discussion. It was, stunning at the time. And by "at the time", I mean a couple months ago. Needless to say, this thread has felt the effects of Breibart and Milo's efforts.

I don't understand what anyone sees in Milo.
A good general rule in life is that if someone got famous during gamergate then don't listen to a single word they have to say about anything.
All of these people are the kind of individuals whose ideology is so basic and crude that it can be spread like fire using a 7 word meme. The lack of logic, rationality, interesting ideas and ability is far more damning than the moral immaturity in my opinion.
RIP Meatloaf <3
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9651 Posts
October 06 2017 22:28 GMT
#178879
Another interesting article about a forum favourite (Coates):
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/06/opinion/ta-nehisi-coates-whiteness-power.html
In the study of German history, there is the notion of sonderweg, literally the “special path,” down which the German people are fated to wander. In different eras, and depending on who employed it, the term could imply different things. It began as a positive myth during the imperial period that some German scholars told themselves about their political system and culture. During and after World War II it turned distinctly negative, a way for outsiders to make sense of the singularity of Germany’s crimes.

Yet whether viewed from within or without, left or right, the Germans could be seen through such a lens to possess some collective essence — a specialness — capable of explaining everything. In this way, one could speak of a trajectory “from Luther to Hitler” and interpret history not as some chaotic jumble but as a crisp, linear process.

There is something both terrifying and oddly soothing about such a formulation. For better or worse, it leaves many very important matters beyond the scope of choice or action. It imagines Germans as having been either glorious or terrible puppets, the powerful agents of forces nonetheless beyond their control.

A similar unifying theory has been taking hold in America. Its roots lie in the national triple sin of slavery, land theft and genocide. In this view, the conditions at the core of the country’s founding don’t just reverberate through the ages — they determine the present. No matter what we might hope, that original sin — white supremacy — explains everything, an all-American sonderweg.

No one today has done more to push this theory in the mainstream than the 42-year-old author Ta-Nehisi Coates. Anyone interested in the durability of racism in American life is probably still discussing his breakout 2015 memoir “Between the World and Me,” a moving and despairing letter to his then-15-year-old son that warned: “You have been cast into a race in which the wind is always at your face and the hounds are always at your heels ... The plunder of black life was drilled into this country in its infancy and reinforced across its history, so that plunder has become an heirloom, an intelligence, a sentience, a default setting to which, likely to the end of our days, we must invariably return.” The book won Mr. Coates millions of readers and fans, many of whom are white.
RIP Meatloaf <3
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 06 2017 22:32 GMT
#178880
On October 07 2017 07:24 Jockmcplop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2017 07:18 Plansix wrote:
You missed out on the Vox Day, western culture an the 14 words discussion. It was, stunning at the time. And by "at the time", I mean a couple months ago. Needless to say, this thread has felt the effects of Breibart and Milo's efforts.

I don't understand what anyone sees in Milo.
A good general rule in life is that if someone got famous during gamergate then don't listen to a single word they have to say about anything.
All of these people are the kind of individuals whose ideology is so basic and crude that it can be spread like fire using a 7 word meme. The lack of logic, rationality, interesting ideas and ability is far more damning than the moral immaturity in my opinion.

He would've stayed as just "that one gamergate guy that published the game journalist collusion" if nobody had protested his speeches and got into twitter spats. Or if people didn't insist gay men think this way and behave this way. The combination of the two made him what he is to broader society, or he could've just been another twitter & Breitbart pundit you've never heard of.

+ Show Spoiler +
Also, maybe if people weren't so droll in their responses when he had his bit of flamboyant, provoking fun. Political correctness and all that.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
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