|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On September 14 2017 07:28 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2017 07:08 harodihg wrote:
Or would ask her "where are you from?" Everything else aside, there is absolutely nothing wrong or offensive about that.
Depends on the circumstances, but when the person just doesn't look white and they are asking nationality there is. The presumption is that white people are Americans and not-white people are something else. I mean we could quibble over the terminology, but that's what people usually find offensive.
EDIT: It's also often just a small chat question about whether you grew up in-state/city or came from elsewhere or responding to an unfamiliar accent.
|
as someone who has been asked the "where are you really from" question, i can attest that it's quite annoying. though i have had the pleasure of making a couple people uncomfortable after it comes out that they've been in the states for a shorter period than i have (my entire life) and being able to half jokingly say "hey look i'm actually more american than you!".
|
United Kingdom13775 Posts
I dunno, I ask European looking people where they're from as well. As of yet the only people I've seen who get offended are the people who go out of their way to be offended. Plenty of people asked me the same and I never cared. Mostly just makes for good conversation.
|
On September 14 2017 07:45 LegalLord wrote:
I dunno, I ask European looking people where they're from as well. As of yet the only people I've seen who get offended are the people who go out of their way to be offended. Plenty of people asked me the same and I never cared. Mostly just makes for good conversation.
How does a "European looking" person look like as opposed to European Americans (white people)?
Also don't presume because people were polite to you despite you being rude (doesn't matter if you think it's rude) that they weren't offended.
|
United States42024 Posts
On September 14 2017 07:28 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2017 07:08 harodihg wrote:
Or would ask her "where are you from?" Everything else aside, there is absolutely nothing wrong or offensive about that.
It's "you're not from here". National origin is a protected class. It's no different from saying "hey, wheels, what's up with your legs?" Maybe it's being asked in a friendly way but as a rule, don't fuck with protected classes.
|
But you're super white, correct? Because asking white European might not have the same connotations as asking a brown person "where are you really from?"
|
On September 14 2017 07:45 LegalLord wrote:
I dunno, I ask European looking people where they're from as well. As of yet the only people I've seen who get offended are the people who go out of their way to be offended. Plenty of people asked me the same and I never cared. Mostly just makes for good conversation.
My experience has been that the only people offended are the ones who feel insecure or feel like their heritage is a liability.
|
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On September 14 2017 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2017 07:45 LegalLord wrote:
I dunno, I ask European looking people where they're from as well. As of yet the only people I've seen who get offended are the people who go out of their way to be offended. Plenty of people asked me the same and I never cared. Mostly just makes for good conversation. How does a "European looking" person look like as opposed to European Americans (white people)?
There are signs if you know what to look for.
On September 14 2017 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Also don't presume because people were polite to you despite you being rude (doesn't matter if you think it's rude) that they weren't offended.
lol
|
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On September 14 2017 08:12 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2017 07:45 LegalLord wrote:
I dunno, I ask European looking people where they're from as well. As of yet the only people I've seen who get offended are the people who go out of their way to be offended. Plenty of people asked me the same and I never cared. Mostly just makes for good conversation. My experience has been that the only people offended are the ones who feel insecure or feel like their heritage is a liability.
Pretty much, yeah. That and people who seek to frame anything and everything as closet racism.
|
On September 14 2017 08:08 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2017 07:28 LegalLord wrote:On September 14 2017 07:08 harodihg wrote:
Or would ask her "where are you from?" Everything else aside, there is absolutely nothing wrong or offensive about that. It's "you're not from here". National origin is a protected class. It's no different from saying "hey, wheels, what's up with your legs?" Maybe it's being asked in a friendly way but as a rule, don't fuck with protected classes.
"I dream of a day when the phrase 'hey wheels' is derogatory not because the person can't walk, but because they are too poor to afford a hover chair" -MLK Jr. (R)
But I do wonder if there are any people over the last couple years or months that have come to some sort of realization regarding racism in the US or if everyone still finds themselves where they were back then.
|
On September 14 2017 08:12 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2017 07:45 LegalLord wrote:
I dunno, I ask European looking people where they're from as well. As of yet the only people I've seen who get offended are the people who go out of their way to be offended. Plenty of people asked me the same and I never cared. Mostly just makes for good conversation. My experience has been that the only people offended are the ones who feel insecure or feel like their heritage is a liability.
You are an HR nightmare waiting to happen.
|
On September 14 2017 08:13 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2017 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 14 2017 07:45 LegalLord wrote:
I dunno, I ask European looking people where they're from as well. As of yet the only people I've seen who get offended are the people who go out of their way to be offended. Plenty of people asked me the same and I never cared. Mostly just makes for good conversation. How does a "European looking" person look like as opposed to European Americans (white people)? There are signs if you know what to look for. Show nested quote +On September 14 2017 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Also don't presume because people were polite to you despite you being rude (doesn't matter if you think it's rude) that they weren't offended. lol
Please, do tell. I'm terribly curious.
|
Norway28565 Posts
there are ways of asking that aren't offensive. And I agree that it can be interesting to know what country of origin someone has. But if someone has two vietnamese parents but they are born in the US and speak perfect english and have no real connection to vietnam other than their parents being from vietnam, then they are really from the US and I can see how it'd be annoying, and even mildly offensive, to be asked 'where are you really from' because of a non-white appearance.
I think it should be a bigger issue in countries like Norway than the US though.. I mean obviously you guys still have your racism issues but here, a pretty decent chunk of the population don't think someone with two parents from Ghana but born and raised in Norway qualifies as Norwegian. (I am confident this chunk is better than what the case is for the US as a whole - you guys accept that people are american because they identify as american to a larger degree than we do). When the question is phrased in a way that indicates that your non-whiteness means you can't really qualify as 'insert nationality of country you've lived in your entire life', I think it's fair to find that somewhat offensive, and somewhat racist. The thing is when you ask european people the same question (if they have no accent), there isn't the implied 'but you're not really american', it's just a genuine 'whats your heritage' question. Which, to be fair, is very often the case when people ask non-european looking people the same question..
Either way I think it's an issue of how you phrase it, and that very few people will actually be annoyed if you express genuine curiosity wrt their heritage going way back..
|
Nevuk -> did you need anything else on that law article?
|
On September 14 2017 07:45 LegalLord wrote:
I dunno, I ask European looking people where they're from as well. As of yet the only people I've seen who get offended are the people who go out of their way to be offended. Plenty of people asked me the same and I never cared. Mostly just makes for good conversation.
It's not so much asking where someone's from, it's the "where are you *really* from" follow-up that's annoying like they don't take your response at face value. If I said I'm from the US, I mean I'm from the US. If you want to ask my ethnicity, then cool, ask me that. But don't ask me where I'm from and then act like I'm not telling you the truth because it doesn't match your assumptions.
"Where are you from?" is fine. "No, where are you *really* from?" after I already answered your question? Fuck off.
EDIT: From your responses Legal, it seems like you don't get what people find annoying about this situation because you've never been in it. I don't care that people ask me where I'm from. I care that people don't take my response as genuine because I look like I'm from somewhere in the world that doesn't match their up-front assessment of me based on my skin color. You probably don't do this, but I've definitely encountered people who do.
|
I get asked where I'm from even though I'm European living in another European country. I don't think people should be offended by such questions unless it's "where are you really from" as someone else mentioned. Again, plenty of things to be upset about in this world, and this isn't one of them.
|
On September 14 2017 06:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2017 05:51 xDaunt wrote:On September 14 2017 05:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
So in theory, you're fine with terms like cultural Randism if a libertarian school of thought achieved influence on a similar level to the Frankfurt School? Why not? If there's a connection to Rand, I don't see the problem. I'm honestly not intimately familiar with her works, but I've had the impression that she, like Marx, is more about economy than culture, and that it'd be a pretty meaningless term. Honestly kind of secondary though, my main argument against the term is more along the lines of; What if the term is hardly ever used, but then gains popularity following a leftist timothy mcweigh who attacks and kills 100 boyscouts during the 2018 boyscout Jamboree where he prior to attacking posts an online manifesto where he specifies that he targeted those boyscouts because they were likely to be future representatives of Cultural Randism, a term that is consistently used to denigrate the political opponents of leftist timothy mcweigh. That's actually a pretty perfect parallel. And I can guarantee that I'd avoid the term if this is how it came to achieve notoriety. 
I never heard the term in context of Breivik. I heard it as a critique of the ideology underpinning certain aspects of extreme political correctness and parts of leftist political ideology in the social/societal realm. I read around, reviewed chapters of foundational Marxist/Leninist works, and it's a pretty easy tie-in applying broad themes from the Marxist vision of economic thought to culture. It's all the power struggle of cultural forces, everything is victim/oppressor relationship ... you've just switched what and who is proletariat and bourgeoisie. The solution is undermining the existing system (incrementalist variant) and revolution.
Now, if some Norwegian comes over and says the true history of the term is a nutty terrorist from Norway, I'm going to view you with incredulity. Marxist thought and ideology is far older than that dude. The works are widely known. Any semi intelligent man or woman can put the two and two together for societal critique. The ideas of Marx & Engels translated into culture wars. I see a central truth to the characterization. I don't personally use it that often, not because of one nut, but because evangelical preachers and politicians have misused it to encompass any cultural decay in society. Is your story of acquaintance with the term your unique path, the understanding of most Norwegians, or straight Scandinavian?
|
On September 14 2017 08:27 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2017 07:45 LegalLord wrote:
I dunno, I ask European looking people where they're from as well. As of yet the only people I've seen who get offended are the people who go out of their way to be offended. Plenty of people asked me the same and I never cared. Mostly just makes for good conversation. It's not so much asking where someone's from, it's the "where are you *really* from" follow-up that's annoying like they don't take your response at face value. If I said I'm from the US, I mean I'm from the US.
To be fair, you could also say it is pretty obnoxious to just be like "uh, Oregon" when someone is obviously asking about your heritage. I always tell people "I am from ___, but my father is from ____" and people are like "ohhhh, cool!".
It is super obvious what someone means when they ask me where I'm from. I think it is just being polite to tell them what they were obviously after while also making it clear where I myself am from. However, I will say that there are certainly people out there from lower income areas who are looking for a reason to write you off. I happen to be in an affluent area in an affluent career, so when people are asking me that, it is really just people wanting to hear more about my heritage. But I do recognize that people in less cool areas have a not as great situation.
|
Cultural Marxism in a technical sense was the name for Marxism coming out of the Frankfurt school, and if used in that case it's not meant to be either critical or derogatory.
The modern use is a play on the "international jewish communist" anti-semitic trope, and you should honestly stay away from it.
If you see it used it an online discussion the chance that it's used in the second context is just about approaching 100%.
|
On September 14 2017 08:28 sc-darkness wrote:
I get asked where I'm from even though I'm European living in another European country. I don't think people should be offended by such questions unless it's "where are you really from" as someone else mentioned. Again, plenty of things to be upset about in this world, and this isn't one of them.
It can be code for "where are you from? Because you are definitely not an American like me."
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
