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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On September 03 2017 13:22 TLnand wrote:
Other politicians in the world wish they were Donald Trump because idiots keep dropping the bar lower and lower for him to the point that a positive selfie is supposed to be enough for us to start trusting him.
Yep, it's quite amazing. It was proven this weekend he blamed and flamed the former president of wiretapping him based on nothing, and a climate science denier is now nominated for head of NASA, but hey at least he can smile on a selfie.
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On September 03 2017 13:22 TLnand wrote:
How the hell are people still fooled by how Donald and Ivanka operate? I put Ivanka here because she's skilled enough to play a similar game as her dad and people still keep giving her the benefit of the doubt for reasons I have no idea.
Its well documented that Donald is a good schmoozer who tells you what you want to hear. Telling people what they want to hear in the case of Donald Trump doesn't transfer into him doing what you want him to do.
Same deal with Ivanka. People still see her as some moderating force when she's basically complicit in everything and practically disappears when her dad does something that goes against her "beliefs".
We've got a president wailing at China for stealing manufacturing jobs, who then wails at Nordstrom for dropping his daughter's plagiarized fashion lineup that is made in China. If either of them gave a shit about US manufacturing, they'd have moved their products to US sourced materials and manufacturing but that takes effort and money to establish. There are countless examples of him saying one thing then doing another contradictory thing. Trump waving a rainbow flag around then pushing for a transgender ban out of nowhere is another recent example.
Other politicians in the world wish they were Donald Trump because idiots keep dropping the bar lower and lower for him to the point that a positive selfie is supposed to be enough for us to start trusting him.
there's extensive literature in psychology documenting the various biases that lead to these effects; are you familiar with them?
It sounds like you're looking for an actual answer rather than being rhetorical.
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On September 03 2017 12:18 Danglars wrote:
When the petty hatred runs into reality.
You know, Danglar, you keep making it really fucking hard for everyone here to take you seriously.
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Reality? Why is a single selfie more important than everything he's said and done?
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From what I've been reading, they've tested an H bomb inside a mountain.
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Man he really told SK there
What is the one thing though
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On September 04 2017 00:40 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Man he really told SK there What is the one thing though
Publishing pictures of Trump touching even bigger orbs! I don't think he cares about the explosions, he is just jealous that Kim is posting much greater pictures!
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Trump was in charge when the NK matter finally turned into a gigantic disaster. But to be fair to him, he wasn't even in politics back when things were allowed to develop to this point. Something certainly needs to be said for his predecessors - Obama, Bush 1&2, Clinton, Reagan, possibly further back - that they let things develop to this point. It boils down to that none of them were really willing to stick their neck out for something that wasn't an immediate problem, but was about to be an international disaster in the making. What exactly did they think would happen?
I would be inclined to say that NK took over the title of "most dangerous country in the world" but... you know, Pakistan probably still deserves that title as of now. NK is a bit crazy but I wouldn't call them unstable. Just provocative.
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On September 04 2017 01:59 LegalLord wrote:
Trump was in charge when the NK matter finally turned into a gigantic disaster. But to be fair to him, he wasn't even in politics back when things were allowed to develop to this point. Something certainly needs to be said for his predecessors - Obama, Bush 1&2, Clinton, Reagan, possibly further back - that they let things develop to this point. It boils down to that none of them were really willing to stick their neck out for something that wasn't an immediate problem, but was about to be an international disaster in the making. What exactly did they think would happen?
I would be inclined to say that NK took over the title of "most dangerous country in the world" but... you know, Pakistan probably still deserves that title as of now. NK is a bit crazy but I wouldn't call them unstable. Just provocative.
That if they ratcheted up the pressure the regime would collapse on itself in revolution or they'd give in and come to the table. Would be my guess anyway. I'm by no means on Chinese politics, but supposedly they've been wishy washy in their agreements to reign in NK, which wouldn't help.
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NK kinda has Trump going for it though. One of the involved parties being crazy and provocative is one thing. Having both of them that way is a bit more scary for me than Pakistan which at least gets more or less ignored so shit doesn't go south from both involved parties needing to show strength in front of their followers.
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Great idea!
When the US economy crashes he can just blame Obama.
The man's a genius.
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It's just hot air at this point and Trump isn't doing himself any favours if he continues with the twitter threats
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It is worth pointing out that Trump is playing this the worst way he possibly could play it. We have only a few strong points over NK.
1) our conventional forces
2) our alliance with South Korea
3) unity among local partners
On (1), DJT has done nothing to increase our conventional forces in the area. And every time he makes a threat and doesn't follow through, their deterrent power is weakened. Don't think NK isn't counting up each threatening tweet and noting down how he doesn't do anything. If you want to talk big, you better be making the stick behind the big talk bigger. But we have seen nothing beyond normal rotations of bombers into Guam.
On (2), DJT is threatening our trade agreements with SK and his idiotic bluster got a soft-on-NK government elected back in April. If SK votes in a true appeasement government, they could vote to toss USA troops from the peninsula. SK voting for reunification is NK's only viable win condition and DJT is managing to do everything he can to make this happen.
On (3), DJT tossed TPP and gave away our ability to use the dollar to keep everyone in the area from falling deeper under China's influence. TPP was our last best chance to keep southeast asia dollarized.
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Stronger economy, backing out of awful deals with other countries, getting tougher on NK...
God I love my president.
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On September 04 2017 02:41 Bayaz90 wrote:
Stronger economy, backing out of awful deals with other countries, getting tougher on NK...
God I love my president.
that post doens't really make sense considernig the actual facts of the situations. unless you're being sarcastic or something; which it doens't sound like.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On September 04 2017 02:38 Wulfey_LA wrote:
On (3), DJT tossed TPP and gave away our ability to use the dollar to keep everyone in the area from falling deeper under China's influence. TPP was our last best chance to keep southeast asia dollarized.
TPP killed itself. DJT may have pulled the trigger but despite the "necessity" of the agreement (and I do agree that it ends up being really painful to withdraw from it) the TPP did not manage to keep itself politically viable. That it managed to draw truly daunting opposition from the populist/labor crowds all over the entire nation was not DJT's fault. Even two-faced Hillary had to pretend that she wasn't about to sign off on it the moment it reached her desk were she to become president, because the alternative would be politically awful.
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On September 03 2017 12:54 Plansix wrote:
Trump has charisma, no one claimed otherwise. He is also a racist, uncaring asshole. Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than selfies.
Yeah it's not clear to me what Danglars was trying to say posting that tweet. That DJT is charismatic and personable contradicts literally none of the criticisms his detractors levy against him.
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On September 04 2017 02:45 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2017 02:38 Wulfey_LA wrote:
On (3), DJT tossed TPP and gave away our ability to use the dollar to keep everyone in the area from falling deeper under China's influence. TPP was our last best chance to keep southeast asia dollarized. TPP killed itself. DJT may have pulled the trigger but despite the "necessity" of the agreement (and I do agree that it ends up being really painful to withdraw from it) the TPP did not manage to keep itself politically viable. That it managed to draw truly daunting opposition from the populist/labor crowds all over the entire nation was not DJT's fault. Even two-faced Hillary had to pretend that she wasn't about to sign off on it the moment it reached her desk were she to become president, because the alternative would be politically awful.
I am rereading the TPP Wikipedia. Compare and contrast the Geopolitics section and the Criticism section. It isn't close. The Criticism section is some out of date anti-trade junk. The Geopolitics section has some serious points about the value of keeping southeast asia under USA influence and actually bringing minimum wages, unions, and child labor laws to countries like Malaysia and Vietnma.
I get that the politics sucked. But can we please stick to the substance? Why must you make politics excuses for Trump here? Shouldn't he have done the right thing, even if it was hard? HRC was going to do the right thing here. Just because morons can't read and are fooled by populist nonsense, doesn't mean that we have to be fooled by it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership
EDIT: here, have a little more substance. Once the specter of TPP went away, Vietnam upped its crackdown on dissidents back in April 2017.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-vietnam-arrests/trump-factor-weighs-as-vietnam-intensifies-crackdown-on-dissidents-idUSKBN1AI0LF
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On September 04 2017 02:44 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2017 02:41 Bayaz90 wrote:
Stronger economy, backing out of awful deals with other countries, getting tougher on NK...
God I love my president. that post doens't really make sense considernig the actual facts of the situations. unless you're being sarcastic or something; which it doens't sound like.
The economy IS doing better than it did under Obama.
The trade deals and Paris climate agreement WERE deals that hurt the United States more than other countries. No need to assume someone with a different opinion than you is being sarcastic.
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EPT
