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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
January 24 2014 02:29 GMT
#16301
On January 24 2014 10:50 Introvert wrote:
First of all, Mike Huckabee is irrelevant.

speaker at the RNC is irrelevant. like we didn't know already, but it sure is nice to get conservatives to agree too.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 24 2014 02:36 GMT
#16302
SAN ANTONIO — Gov. Rick Perry signaled Thursday that he's for the decriminalization of marijuana use — not legalization, but the softening of punishment for pot users in the border state.

“As governor, I have begun to implement policies that start us toward a decriminalization” by introducing alternative “drug courts” that provide treatment and softer penalties for minor offenses, Perry said during an international panel on drug legalization at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

It's the first time the governor, who's voiced support for drug courts in the past, took a position on decriminalization in Texas.

His spokeswoman confirmed that Perry is staunchly opposed to legalization of marijuana because of the dangers that have been associated with the drug but is committed to policies that would lower the punishment for its use to keep smokers out of jail.

“Legalization is no penalty at all, whereas decriminalization doesn't necessarily mean jail time (for minor possession offenses). It means more of a fine or counseling or some sort of program where you don't end up in jail but in a rehabilitative program,” said Lucy Nashed, a spokeswoman for Perry.

“The goal is to keep people out of jails and reduce recidivism, that kind of thing,” she said, adding that decriminalization would exclude violent offenders and dealers.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4773 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-24 02:49:51
January 24 2014 02:41 GMT
#16303
On January 24 2014 11:21 Doublemint wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2014 11:10 Introvert wrote:
On January 24 2014 11:02 Doublemint wrote:
On January 24 2014 10:50 Introvert wrote:
First of all, Mike Huckabee is irrelevant.

Second, I think he's got a point. What was one of the Democrats main talking points last election cycle? Not the coming Obamacare disaster, not the stagnant economy, not the weakening of American influence around the world...it was (A) how horrible Romney was as a person and (B) how the Republicans hated women because they insist that if women are going to partake in sexual activity of their own free will that they can pay for it, of their own free will.

It's ideologically consistent with the whole "small government thing." It's not necessarily a social issue like abortion or what have you. If it losses women voters than fine. Better that than to be a prostitute to political correctness.

But his comments are meaningless. I feel like by the time the election roles around some of our issues will be so big and glaring that diversions are going to work only so well.


How is this man irrelevant if his specific constituency, evangelical Christians, are consisting of a quite a lot of people. What he says HAS meaning to these people.

The largest concentration of Evangelicals can be found in the United States, with 28.9% of population or 91.76 million, less than a quarter of the world figure.


Wikipedia Link


Thanks for link, like I didn't know that this is a very Christian nation.

I'm saying he has no sway. When was the last time Huckabee said anything anyone cared about? Every once in a while he says something like this, and no one cares. he's certainly not treading new ground. The only reason this shows up is because lefty sites like TPM will post it and make a big deal about. I have not heard nor read anyone quote MH on ANYTHING in several years.

The only reason I've heard his name in the past month before this is because he said that we should stop using the term "RINO." Of course he said that because he's an establishment Repub.

Just because someone is somewhat of a national figure and happens to be part of the largest religious group doesn't make them relevant.

Edit: It was more pro-women than anti to me. Like I said, I think he actually has a point here. Giving out free stuff is not the same as being caring or compassionate, nor does opposing it make you a hater of a particular group.


Helping out wherever I can, especially helpful to people I feel miss critical points.

Huckabee has a show on Fox News. Fox News is an insanely profitable business, meaning they don't give him a show for shits and giggles - he is hardly irrelevant or he would be off the air.

And it's not giving out FREE stuff. It is being paid for by people pooling resources and the ones in need are going to get what their pay covers.

Only because you don't give two shits about him does not mean you are right.

Looking at this statement, what exactly is empowering?

Show nested quote +
"The fact is the Republicans don't have a war on women, they have a war for women, to empower them to be something other than victims of their gender," Huckabee said.


It's from that lefty link posted earlier.



Edit: I don't doubt that MH wants to (or think he is) relevant. But the fact that this is pretty much the first anyone has heard from him in so long ought to crush that idea.


I didn't miss the point, I'm debating it's importance.

Yes, he has a show on Fox News. But like I said, when was the last time you heard any conservative quote him, or use some original idea he had? Never, at least that I'm aware of. The mere fact that he's on Fox doesn't mean anything.

Obama sold birth control as free, and that the Republicans wanted to stop women from getting birth control. A horrendously stupid and factually incorrect argument, but nonetheless the one he presented. I know it is not LITERALLY free. When I say free, I mean it in the same sense that most people meant it (like this article.) It is now MANDATORY. This is the insanity that I refer to.

Just because TPM posts a story about him doesn't make him important. You still can't tell me one thing he's said that anyone cares about.

If you read his comment in its entirety, you see that he is saying that the women he knows are smart, independent people who aren't helpless without someone subsidizing their sexual activity.


speaker at the RNC is irrelevant. like we didn't know already, but it sure is nice to get conservatives to agree too.


Maybe the establishment cares? Conservatives don't care. Tea Party people don't care. Maybe John Boehner cares?

"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8541 Posts
January 24 2014 02:54 GMT
#16304
Huckabee is not one you would like to quote to win elections. About two steps behind Todd Akin in terms of "ass backwardness" regarding social policies.

Of course you are free to disagree with the healthcare law also known as ACA.

What about other women he doesn't know? Are they "victims of their gender", in need of him fighting a war for them?

The sad little truth is that Huckabee is relevant enough to be there for the Republican establishment to make sure evangelicals vote for them, yet not relevant enough to be taken seriously by more socially liberal Conservatives like you.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4773 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-24 03:24:50
January 24 2014 03:15 GMT
#16305
On January 24 2014 11:54 Doublemint wrote:
Huckabee is not one you would like to quote to win elections. About two steps behind Todd Akin in terms of "ass backwardness" regarding social policies.

Of course you are free to disagree with the healthcare law also known as ACA.

What about other women he doesn't know? Are they "victims of their gender", in need of him fighting a war for them?

The sad little truth is that Huckabee is relevant enough to be there for the Republican establishment to make sure evangelicals vote for them, yet not relevant enough to be taken seriously by more socially liberal Conservatives like you.


I'm not sure I get your third statement. I presume he would argue that no average woman is a victim, and thus they don't need to be lied to about it. He's fighting against fabricated victimhood- the kind the Democrats espouse.

I'm pretty socially conservative, if I dare say so (I'm not the most extreme, though, either. No, I'm not going to go any more in-depth on that one. ). I just don't care what Huckabee says. He doesn't strike me as particularly bright, interesting, or original. He's just kind of... there, never adding anything of value to the discussion.

Evangelicals won't vote for the GOP because of Huckabee, even if they agree on social issues. They voted that way before he came along, and they will after he's gone.

I think it's GOP's attempt and getting some of their disgusted base back. They are certainly trying to use him to get votes, I don't disagree. But social conservatives tend to be very right leaning on economic issues as well, so I think they need to address why they are the party of mush and don't provide any real opposition to Obama. But since they can't/won't address that, they'll do stuff like this.

That's not to say the topic isn't important- the Democrats have made it important by dragging it into the spotlight. It's just that the Republicans would rather do anything to get votes EXCEPT take on the Democrats.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 24 2014 04:08 GMT
#16306
Utah will expand Medicaid under Obamacare, its Republican governor said Thursday.

"Doing nothing ... I’ve taken off the table. Doing nothing is not an option," Gov. Gary Herbert said at his monthly news conference, according to the Salt Lake Tribune.

The state legislature has endorsed two plans for expanding Medicaid through private coverage, as Arkansas has already done. Under one plan, Medicaid dollars would pay for people up to 133 percent of the federal poverty level to purchase private insurance on HealthCare.gov. The alternative plan would use Medicaid dollars for people up to the poverty level to buy private coverage on HealthCare.gov; those above the poverty level would receive federal tax subsidies to help purchase insurance through the federal website.

It's not clear which strategy the state will adopt, and Herbert didn't express a preference. Medicaid expansion would cover 60,000 Utahans, according to the Tribune. Utah would be the 26th state, along with Washington, D.C., to accept expansion.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
January 24 2014 04:53 GMT
#16307
On January 24 2014 13:08 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Utah will expand Medicaid under Obamacare, its Republican governor said Thursday.

"Doing nothing ... I’ve taken off the table. Doing nothing is not an option," Gov. Gary Herbert said at his monthly news conference, according to the Salt Lake Tribune.

The state legislature has endorsed two plans for expanding Medicaid through private coverage, as Arkansas has already done. Under one plan, Medicaid dollars would pay for people up to 133 percent of the federal poverty level to purchase private insurance on HealthCare.gov. The alternative plan would use Medicaid dollars for people up to the poverty level to buy private coverage on HealthCare.gov; those above the poverty level would receive federal tax subsidies to help purchase insurance through the federal website.

It's not clear which strategy the state will adopt, and Herbert didn't express a preference. Medicaid expansion would cover 60,000 Utahans, according to the Tribune. Utah would be the 26th state, along with Washington, D.C., to accept expansion.


Source

I really hope more red states start heading this direction. The giant coverage gap for working adults with no kids, living below poverty is really quite bad.

Politically, I don't see it working out too well for Republicans at the state level if they continue to decline Medicaid expansion in every form. It's too easy to link that gap to them and their battle against Obamacare, linking them to policies that hurt the poor above all, even those that are working.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
January 24 2014 07:50 GMT
#16308
Mike Huckabee's status as a irrelevant figure might be the only point of agreement I'll get here with the liberal leaners. The guy will fool some social issues voters forever. If he enters into a primary, he might take a third through fifth, or even a second in a weak field. The guy's a worthless political figure; the only thing he brings to the table is Chuck Norris appearances in campaign ads.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4773 Posts
January 24 2014 09:50 GMT
#16309
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Sixty-five percent of Americans are dissatisfied with the nation's system of government and how well it works, the highest percentage in Gallup's trend since 2001. Dissatisfaction is up five points since last year, and has edged above the previous high from 2012 (64%).



One reason Americans are dissatisfied with how the government system is working is that they believe it is too big and powerful. Two-thirds of Americans (66%) are unhappy with the size and power of the federal government. These views potentially hamper President Barack Obama's ability to propose large-scale government solutions in his State of the Union speech next week. However, this problem is not a new one for the president. Roughly two-thirds of Americans have expressed this view consistently since at least 2011, after the measure jumped a full 10 points between 2008 and 2011.


[image loading]

Slowly, slowly people are starting to get it...


http://www.gallup.com/poll/166985/dissatisfied-gov-system-works.aspx
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
January 24 2014 10:00 GMT
#16310
If one were to shift some things from the federal level to the state and local level, how would one coordinate the necessary fund shifts on a political level?
i.e. if one were to reduce federal taxes (and programs) so that states could then add appropriate taxes (to cover programs deemed necessary), how could one set that up?
While the feds would get to lower taxes a lot, it would necessitate a large increase in state taxes, which would seem potentially difficult to do.

Yea, federal government is working poorly, especially the legislature. It could really use some rewriting.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
January 24 2014 10:10 GMT
#16311
On January 24 2014 19:00 zlefin wrote:
If one were to shift some things from the federal level to the state and local level, how would one coordinate the necessary fund shifts on a political level?
i.e. if one were to reduce federal taxes (and programs) so that states could then add appropriate taxes (to cover programs deemed necessary), how could one set that up?
While the feds would get to lower taxes a lot, it would necessitate a large increase in state taxes, which would seem potentially difficult to do.

Yea, federal government is working poorly, especially the legislature. It could really use some rewriting.

typically amorphous poll. You ask people line by line what they want to get rid of and they want to keep all the federal programs as is.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
January 24 2014 10:16 GMT
#16312
On January 24 2014 18:50 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Sixty-five percent of Americans are dissatisfied with the nation's system of government and how well it works, the highest percentage in Gallup's trend since 2001. Dissatisfaction is up five points since last year, and has edged above the previous high from 2012 (64%).



Show nested quote +
One reason Americans are dissatisfied with how the government system is working is that they believe it is too big and powerful. Two-thirds of Americans (66%) are unhappy with the size and power of the federal government. These views potentially hamper President Barack Obama's ability to propose large-scale government solutions in his State of the Union speech next week. However, this problem is not a new one for the president. Roughly two-thirds of Americans have expressed this view consistently since at least 2011, after the measure jumped a full 10 points between 2008 and 2011.


[image loading]

Slowly, slowly people are starting to get it...


http://www.gallup.com/poll/166985/dissatisfied-gov-system-works.aspx
Some of that has got to be the dissatisfaction with Republican's performance in government as well. Size AND Power could include those that believe the government shutdown spoke to government's power to screw up with veteran's, nat'l parks, etc.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10723 Posts
January 24 2014 10:20 GMT
#16313
While most of the world is making fun of your infrastructure (bad roads and so on) and compare some areas and programs of your country to 2nd or even 3d world countries your still arguing about goverment being to big and taking too much Money...


I might also start some polls:
"Do you think the goverment should work more efficient?" or "Do you like paying Taxes?"

That will Show them leftists whats up.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8541 Posts
January 24 2014 11:11 GMT
#16314
On January 24 2014 19:10 Sub40APM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2014 19:00 zlefin wrote:
If one were to shift some things from the federal level to the state and local level, how would one coordinate the necessary fund shifts on a political level?
i.e. if one were to reduce federal taxes (and programs) so that states could then add appropriate taxes (to cover programs deemed necessary), how could one set that up?
While the feds would get to lower taxes a lot, it would necessitate a large increase in state taxes, which would seem potentially difficult to do.

Yea, federal government is working poorly, especially the legislature. It could really use some rewriting.

typically amorphous poll. You ask people line by line what they want to get rid of and they want to keep all the federal programs as is.


I think you are right. Unfortunately that also includes the NSA spying like crazy and not giving a shit about anyone's privacy
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-24 13:37:35
January 24 2014 13:29 GMT
#16315
glory to the CEOs, who we recognize for their exceptional degree of holiness and whose unique, heavenly skillset laid waste to the wages of those filthy technicians.

maybe if the technicians instead through some divine intervention were imbued with the magical skills of an ace sales person, and worked really, really hard and good at... sales, they'd maybe, if they were really lucky, get to cup the balls of their CEO at lunch. maybe even work the shaft if the CEO so pleaseth.

why would you pay some guy hundreds of thousands of dollars to pick boogers out of your nose. i mean, come on.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6220 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-24 14:17:27
January 24 2014 13:52 GMT
#16316
On January 24 2014 19:20 Velr wrote:
While most of the world is making fun of your infrastructure (bad roads and so on) and compare some areas and programs of your country to 2nd or even 3d world countries your still arguing about goverment being to big and taking too much Money...


I might also start some polls:
"Do you think the goverment should work more efficient?" or "Do you like paying Taxes?"

That will Show them leftists whats up.

The army and things like the NSA are part of the government as well. So in left voters can find government too big as well when the question is phrased like it is, it just depends where your priorities lie.

edit: And the general economic situation will make people unhappy about everything anyway lol.

edit2: nevermind I couldn't open it before but it's mainly republicans who are dissatisfied.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
January 24 2014 14:54 GMT
#16317
On January 24 2014 22:29 nunez wrote:
glory to the CEOs, who we recognize for their exceptional degree of holiness and whose unique, heavenly skillset laid waste to the wages of those filthy technicians.

maybe if the technicians instead through some divine intervention were imbued with the magical skills of an ace sales person, and worked really, really hard and good at... sales, they'd maybe, if they were really lucky, get to cup the balls of their CEO at lunch. maybe even work the shaft if the CEO so pleaseth.

why would you pay some guy hundreds of thousands of dollars to pick boogers out of your nose. i mean, come on.

The bidding war over tech workers is part of the inequality problem in and around Silicon Valley.
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
January 24 2014 15:06 GMT
#16318
On January 24 2014 23:54 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2014 22:29 nunez wrote:
glory to the CEOs, who we recognize for their exceptional degree of holiness and whose unique, heavenly skillset laid waste to the wages of those filthy technicians.

maybe if the technicians instead through some divine intervention were imbued with the magical skills of an ace sales person, and worked really, really hard and good at... sales, they'd maybe, if they were really lucky, get to cup the balls of their CEO at lunch. maybe even work the shaft if the CEO so pleaseth.

why would you pay some guy hundreds of thousands of dollars to pick boogers out of your nose. i mean, come on.

The bidding war over tech workers is part of the inequality problem in and around Silicon Valley.


prostitutes getting paid puts them at an unfair advantage over victims of rape.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
January 24 2014 15:38 GMT
#16319
On January 25 2014 00:06 nunez wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2014 23:54 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On January 24 2014 22:29 nunez wrote:
glory to the CEOs, who we recognize for their exceptional degree of holiness and whose unique, heavenly skillset laid waste to the wages of those filthy technicians.

maybe if the technicians instead through some divine intervention were imbued with the magical skills of an ace sales person, and worked really, really hard and good at... sales, they'd maybe, if they were really lucky, get to cup the balls of their CEO at lunch. maybe even work the shaft if the CEO so pleaseth.

why would you pay some guy hundreds of thousands of dollars to pick boogers out of your nose. i mean, come on.

The bidding war over tech workers is part of the inequality problem in and around Silicon Valley.


prostitutes getting paid puts them at an unfair advantage over victims of rape.

wtf?
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
January 24 2014 15:38 GMT
#16320
On January 24 2014 00:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:
So like, hypothetical for xDaunt and Jonny. Is there a breaking point for where salaries become so uneven that it's just downright bad for society and requires political change? I mean, let's base ourselves on some graphs indicating that average ceo:worker pay basically went from 20:1 in 1980 to 200:1 in 2010. Then lets say it increases to 2000:1 in 2040 and 20000:1 in 2070. is that still okay or good? Or is it irrelevant until it gets that far, is it impossible for the market to ever actually screw up? Basically, I can understand that we have different ideas of where a just distribution is - I think even 20:1 is too much and makes no real motivational difference from 10:1, anything beyond that is just wasteful imo, but that's irrelevant. What is relevant is if you can actually envision a roof, a level of income/wealth disparity which is "too much"?

Like what if every low level worker in america requires government benefits in addition to their paycheck to survive, is that good? Or is it bad, but interfering with the market is worse, or is it "neutral"?

Personally I think it's really bad when people who actually work need additional government benefits because there's something emancipating about simply managing on your own. Quality of life is much higher if your salary is $40k and that's that, than if your salary is $20k and you get $20k government benefits (and you're doing the same job in both scenarios), and I think it's thus much wiser to have the redistribution happen through the paycheck than through food stamps and other programs that make you politically dependent and make you feel incapable of managing on your own without government assistance..

Yeah, there is a point where income inequality becomes bad for society. I don't know where it is, but it is not hard to see where some of the stresses are starting to surface. Silicon Valley is just one example, though the real issue there is that the area has become unaffordable for people with blue collar jobs or who otherwise have low paying careers.

That said, I'm not going to begrudge workers who contribute immense value to their employers and reap immense compensation as a result. Simply put, capping someone's pay at 10:1 or even 20:1 as you suggest can be gross underpayment for the true value of an individual's service.
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