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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 23 2017 23:48 GMT
#158641
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
June 23 2017 23:50 GMT
#158642
On June 24 2017 08:32 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2017 08:29 LuckyFool wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:25 GreenHorizons wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:22 Danglars wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:09 Doodsmack wrote:





I'm loving this new era of civility. Let's tiptoe right to the edge of calling the GOP murderers right after one almost got assassinated by a Berniebro.


Are you denying people will die as a result of the Republican "healthcare" bill? Because that would seem like a counterfactual claim.

Also "Berniebro" roflmao.


Darn those Republicans for not supporting healthcare that will let people live forever.


I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or just a piss-poor rejoinder.

Show nested quote +
On June 24 2017 08:31 zlefin wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:14 GreenHorizons wrote:
On June 24 2017 06:08 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:


This man should be fired for that terrible pun (?).

That said, I'd bet it is slightly more substantive without reporters thinking they can make the evening news by peppering Spicer with silly Russia questions.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

I know Trump is a terrible president by practically every measure, but I'm curious what supporters of Hillary think her first ~150 days would have looked like.

Would she have accomplished anything? If so, what? Presumably she would have done a better job at filling departments with cronies, but besides that, would she have been any more effective at passing her agenda than Trump? What parts?

Assuming congress otherwise had the composition it does now;
filling departments with competent people would be the main thing. the claim of them being filled with cronies is unfounded hate, not surprising coming from you though.
I'd assume no major legislative accomplishments, as lacking control of congress it's hard to get such through. I don't think it's enough time for her to do the kind of backroom wrangling she's better at it to get something done legislatively. I'd assume the republicans put forth a bunch fo dumb symbolic bills that she then vetoes.
Alot of her agenda would be continuing what Obama was doing, which is rather easier to do than changing laws.

most of the benefits wouldn't be highly apparent for some time; competent administration is good for a country, but the benefits are generally slow to accumulate and not very visible; much like decent preventative measures.

of course mostly the good part would not be not being the shitshow that is trump


Are you being intentionally dense? You know what the word crony means right? Or you think she would be filling positions with strangers of which she knew nothing of their loyalty?

This isn't even a crack on her, it's what every president has always done.

But the answer seems to be nothing. Considering Democrats are struggling despite having Trump and the walking shit-show the Republicans are in power I think it's fair to say that Democrats would be in even worse shape going into 18 and even less likely to change the house so essentially she wouldn't pass anything for 4 years (like I said during the primary).

Democrats strategy of running on damage mitigation is a loser and will continue to be a loser until they realize it's a loser and change strategies.

no, you're the one being intentionally dense. crony has clear negative connotations that are unjustified in this instance, as you full well know. it's also false that all presidents only fill positions with cronies, as you also full well know.
It's also pretty clear I didn't say nothing, so that's just you strawmanning. don't ask the question if you're going ot pretend the answer is something other than what it is; and lie about what people said.
you're not in a position to complain about strategy when you can't even get basic argumentation right.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
TheLordofAwesome
Profile Joined May 2014
Korea (South)2656 Posts
June 23 2017 23:50 GMT
#158643
On June 24 2017 08:48 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/AFLCIO/status/878228422652301312

See, that's how you effectively message about the bill if you are a Democrat.

You don't do what Bernie, Clinton, Warren did.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-23 23:51:08
June 23 2017 23:50 GMT
#158644
On June 24 2017 08:45 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Do we actually know what's in the Senate bill yet? Last I heard the contents were still secret from the general public.

Also, Clinton's, Bernie's, and Warren's tweets on the matter are really stupid. Danglars is absolutely correct when he says they are helping Trump's 2020 campaign. Their words are better advertising for Trump's style than anything that Trump could ever say.

The only effective Dem response about healthcare bill I've seen so far comes from Joe Biden. If Democrats want to win elections, they should look to him for guidance.


Bob Casey tweeted a bunch of lines from it if your interested.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
TheLordofAwesome
Profile Joined May 2014
Korea (South)2656 Posts
June 23 2017 23:51 GMT
#158645
On June 24 2017 08:50 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2017 08:45 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Do we actually know what's in the Senate bill yet? Last I heard the contents were still secret from the general public.

Also, Clinton's, Bernie's, and Warren's tweets on the matter are really stupid. Danglars is absolutely correct when he says they are helping Trump's 2020 campaign. Their words are better advertising for Trump's style than anything that Trump could ever say.

The only effective Dem response about healthcare bill I've seen so far comes from Joe Biden. If Democrats want to win elections, they should look to him for guidance.


bob Casey tweeted a bunch of lines from it

Thanks, I'll go take a look.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
June 23 2017 23:52 GMT
#158646
I'm not sure it's unreasonable to suppose that thousands will die if they lose access to health care as a result of losing health insurance under Obamacare.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
June 23 2017 23:52 GMT
#158647
On June 24 2017 08:51 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2017 08:50 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:45 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Do we actually know what's in the Senate bill yet? Last I heard the contents were still secret from the general public.

Also, Clinton's, Bernie's, and Warren's tweets on the matter are really stupid. Danglars is absolutely correct when he says they are helping Trump's 2020 campaign. Their words are better advertising for Trump's style than anything that Trump could ever say.

The only effective Dem response about healthcare bill I've seen so far comes from Joe Biden. If Democrats want to win elections, they should look to him for guidance.


bob Casey tweeted a bunch of lines from it

Thanks, I'll go take a look.


now he's not a fan but it has pictures of the actual text so you can read it yourself and make out what the part he's talking about means.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
June 23 2017 23:52 GMT
#158648
On June 24 2017 08:45 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Do we actually know what's in the Senate bill yet? Last I heard the contents were still secret from the general public.

Also, Clinton's, Bernie's, and Warren's tweets on the matter are really stupid. Danglars is absolutely correct when he says they are helping Trump's 2020 campaign. Their words are better advertising for Trump's style than anything that Trump could ever say.

The only effective Dem response about healthcare bill I've seen so far comes from Joe Biden. If Democrats want to win elections, they should look to him for guidance.

I think we do, iirc someone posted a full text aways back in the thread; but maybe that was just a working copy.
those tweets do have some issues; but they're not counterfactual, which is something at least. they may not play well amongst republicans, but they do play well amongst the democrats, so they do so because it's in their individual interest to look like they're fighting trump.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 24 2017 00:04 GMT
#158649
When you fuck with nature it will find a way to fuck you right back.

Arkansas's pesticide regulators have stepped into the middle of an epic battle between weeds and chemicals, which has now morphed into a battle between farmers. Hundreds of farmers say their crops have been damaged by a weedkiller that was sprayed on neighboring fields. Today, the Arkansas Plant Board voted to impose an unprecedented ban on that chemical.

"It's fracturing the agricultural community. You either have to choose to be on the side of using the product, or on the side of being damaged by the product," says David Hundley, who manages grain production for Ozark Mountain Poultry in Bay, Arkansas.

The tension — which even led to a farmer's murder — is over a weedkiller called dicamba. The chemical only became a practical option for farmers a few years ago, when Monsanto created soybean and cotton plants that were genetically modified to survive it. Farmers who planted these new seeds could use dicamba to kill weeds without harming their crops.

Farmers, especially in the South, have been desperate for new weapons against a devastating weed called pigweed, or Palmer amaranth. And some farmers even jumped the gun and started spraying dicamba on their crops before they were legally allowed to do so. (Dicamba has long been used in other ways, such as for clearing vegetation from fields before planting.)

The problem is, dicamba is a menace to other crops nearby. It drifts easily in the wind, and traditional soybeans are incredibly sensitive to it. "Nobody was quite prepared, despite extensive training, for just how sensitive beans were to dicamba," says Bob Scott, a specialist on weeds with the University of Arkansas's agricultural extension service.

As soon as spraying started this spring, the complaints began arriving. By June 23, state regulators had received 242 complaints from farmers who say their crops have been damaged. "This has far eclipsed any previous number of complaints that we've gotten, and unfortunately, this number seems to just keep growing," says Scott. "Every day we get an update with eight or ten more complaints."

In his area, Hundley says, "any soybean that's not [resistant to dicamba] is exhibiting damage. I can name 15 farmers within three or four miles who have damage, and I can only name 3-4 farmers who have used the technology."

On June 20, the Arkansas Plant Board met to consider an emergency ban on further spraying of dicamba, and farmers crowded into the meeting to argue both sides.

"The individuals who were damaged were quite passionate. The growers who had invested money in the technology also were quite passionate," says Jason Norsworthy, a weed specialist at the University of Arkansas, who attended the meeting.

At that first meeting, a procedural mix-up prevented the board from holding a valid vote. On June 23, it reconvened and voted, 9-5, to ban any spraying of dicamba on any crops except for pasture land for 120 days. The ban will take effect immediately if the governor of Arkansas signs it.

The decision, assuming it goes into effect, is a hard blow for farmers who paid extra for dicamba-resistant seeds. They now won't be able to spray dicamba, which they were counting on doing. "A lot of those growers will not have a good option for pigweed," Scott says.

Even Hundley, who was in favor of banning dicamba, doesn't feel that it's an optimal solution. "It's pitting Arkansas farmers against Arkansas farmers, and that's never good," he says.

Looking toward the future, Scott isn't sure whether dicamba ever will be a good tool for farmers, because it appears to be so difficult to control. "I have walked a lot of fields that leave you scratching your head, how did this happen? Because it seemed like they did everything right," he says.

He also doesn't think the problem will be limited to Arkansas. His state just happened to hit this problem first, because Arkansas's farmers adopted dicamba earlier than those in other states. "Arkansas may be ahead of the curve, but I anticipate other states also having this problem," he says.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10165 Posts
June 24 2017 00:05 GMT
#158650
On June 24 2017 08:35 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2017 08:25 GreenHorizons wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:22 Danglars wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:09 Doodsmack wrote:
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/878366918243233792

https://twitter.com/berniesanders/status/878353849093824514
https://twitter.com/senwarren/status/877995366049828866

I'm loving this new era of civility. Let's tiptoe right to the edge of calling the GOP murderers right after one almost got assassinated by a Berniebro.


Are you denying people will die as a result of the Republican "healthcare" bill? Because that would seem like a counterfactual claim.

Also "Berniebro" roflmao.

It might enrage another deranged killer you're right.

Otherwise, you're trying to prove a tenuous connection between health insurance and mortality risk which has been disproven (Kronick 2009). But back to the point, it seems that everybody's looking to imitate Trump's stupid tweets (Clinton, Sanders, Warren) as some form of flattery.

Trump 2020 campaign is in full swing. He should really be paying these guys, seriously.

Pardon my ignorance in the subject.

I am guessing you are pointing to this paper :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2739025/

While Bernie Sanders is probably alluding to the one referenced by this article (and i guess the IOM on 2002 previous, and probably more ?):

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/

Is this correct?

Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 24 2017 00:15 GMT
#158651
On June 24 2017 08:36 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
again

Show nested quote +
"Rep. Labrador is misinformed," Kronick said. "Common sense, as well as the accumulated weight of evidence is sufficient to convince any reasonable analyst that lack of health insurance results in excess morbidity (that is, sickness) and mortality."


He should really stick to the results of his study. He found a statistically insignificant health factor. Big deal guys, let's prattle on about party of death. Ludicrous.
+ Show Spoiler +

https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/878366918243233792
https://twitter.com/berniesanders/status/878353849093824514
https://twitter.com/senwarren/status/877995366049828866

Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 24 2017 00:17 GMT
#158652
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 24 2017 00:20 GMT
#158653


I want to see the same people accusing Trump of divulging classified info to the Russians argue WaPo is doing just great here. I'm sure Putin appreciates knowing precisely which tools are at the US's disposal + Show Spoiler +
but I'd have to ask LegaLord lol
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24354 Posts
June 24 2017 00:22 GMT
#158654
On June 24 2017 08:50 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2017 08:32 GreenHorizons wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:29 LuckyFool wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:25 GreenHorizons wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:22 Danglars wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:09 Doodsmack wrote:
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/878366918243233792

https://twitter.com/berniesanders/status/878353849093824514
https://twitter.com/senwarren/status/877995366049828866

I'm loving this new era of civility. Let's tiptoe right to the edge of calling the GOP murderers right after one almost got assassinated by a Berniebro.


Are you denying people will die as a result of the Republican "healthcare" bill? Because that would seem like a counterfactual claim.

Also "Berniebro" roflmao.


Darn those Republicans for not supporting healthcare that will let people live forever.


I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or just a piss-poor rejoinder.

On June 24 2017 08:31 zlefin wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:14 GreenHorizons wrote:
On June 24 2017 06:08 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/878353139551748096


This man should be fired for that terrible pun (?).

That said, I'd bet it is slightly more substantive without reporters thinking they can make the evening news by peppering Spicer with silly Russia questions.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

I know Trump is a terrible president by practically every measure, but I'm curious what supporters of Hillary think her first ~150 days would have looked like.

Would she have accomplished anything? If so, what? Presumably she would have done a better job at filling departments with cronies, but besides that, would she have been any more effective at passing her agenda than Trump? What parts?

Assuming congress otherwise had the composition it does now;
filling departments with competent people would be the main thing. the claim of them being filled with cronies is unfounded hate, not surprising coming from you though.
I'd assume no major legislative accomplishments, as lacking control of congress it's hard to get such through. I don't think it's enough time for her to do the kind of backroom wrangling she's better at it to get something done legislatively. I'd assume the republicans put forth a bunch fo dumb symbolic bills that she then vetoes.
Alot of her agenda would be continuing what Obama was doing, which is rather easier to do than changing laws.

most of the benefits wouldn't be highly apparent for some time; competent administration is good for a country, but the benefits are generally slow to accumulate and not very visible; much like decent preventative measures.

of course mostly the good part would not be not being the shitshow that is trump


Are you being intentionally dense? You know what the word crony means right? Or you think she would be filling positions with strangers of which she knew nothing of their loyalty?

This isn't even a crack on her, it's what every president has always done.

But the answer seems to be nothing. Considering Democrats are struggling despite having Trump and the walking shit-show the Republicans are in power I think it's fair to say that Democrats would be in even worse shape going into 18 and even less likely to change the house so essentially she wouldn't pass anything for 4 years (like I said during the primary).

Democrats strategy of running on damage mitigation is a loser and will continue to be a loser until they realize it's a loser and change strategies.

no, you're the one being intentionally dense. crony has clear negative connotations that are unjustified in this instance, as you full well know. it's also false that all presidents only fill positions with cronies, as you also full well know.
It's also pretty clear I didn't say nothing, so that's just you strawmanning. don't ask the question if you're going ot pretend the answer is something other than what it is; and lie about what people said.
you're not in a position to complain about strategy when you can't even get basic argumentation right.


What negative connotations does crony have and in what way is it unjustified?

I didn't say she would only fill positions with cronies so that's an argument against one I never made. You did say nothing, you said the big thing would be essentially doing nothing.

I was wondering if there was some substantive progress she would have made and so far the answer is no, she had no plan to do anything and her supporters saying Bernie's inability to compromise would have inhibited his ability to make change was basically hot air as they never expected Hillary to get anything done.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 24 2017 00:24 GMT
#158655
They are a news paper. They don't work for the state.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 24 2017 00:26 GMT
#158656





I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22586 Posts
June 24 2017 00:26 GMT
#158657
On June 24 2017 09:20 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/gregpmiller/status/878219446267109377

I want to see the same people accusing Trump of divulging classified info to the Russians argue WaPo is doing just great here. I'm sure Putin appreciates knowing precisely which tools are at the US's disposal + Show Spoiler +
but I'd have to ask LegaLord lol

You must be new at this. Your supposed to bait us into saying that the article is fine. not outright state it would be hypocracy.

But since you asked. No I dont think the WaPo should be releasing such articles. Esp when I dont see what the point of release it us. Pressure Trump into making use of it?


It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
TheLordofAwesome
Profile Joined May 2014
Korea (South)2656 Posts
June 24 2017 00:29 GMT
#158658
On June 24 2017 08:52 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2017 08:45 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Do we actually know what's in the Senate bill yet? Last I heard the contents were still secret from the general public.

Also, Clinton's, Bernie's, and Warren's tweets on the matter are really stupid. Danglars is absolutely correct when he says they are helping Trump's 2020 campaign. Their words are better advertising for Trump's style than anything that Trump could ever say.

The only effective Dem response about healthcare bill I've seen so far comes from Joe Biden. If Democrats want to win elections, they should look to him for guidance.

I think we do, iirc someone posted a full text aways back in the thread; but maybe that was just a working copy.
those tweets do have some issues; but they're not counterfactual, which is something at least. they may not play well amongst republicans, but they do play well amongst the democrats, so they do so because it's in their individual interest to look like they're fighting trump.

Great point. "Look like." Therein lies the problem.

If they actually wanted to fight Trump, they could retweet the AFLCIO or Biden. Or write 140 characters expressing the same sentiments.

Instead, their actions are Trump's greatest asset. Why? Because I know a lot of Trump voters, and I don't know anyone who voted for Trump because they thought he was a genius. They voted for him because of this:

"The Outsider, Donald Trump, has arrived to clean house! You don’t have to agree with him! You don’t even have to like him! He is your personal Molotov cocktail to throw right into the center of the bastards who did this to you! SEND A MESSAGE! TRUMP IS YOUR MESSENGER!" - Michael Moore

And when those Trump voters see "death party" it just reinforces that they made the right choice.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
June 24 2017 00:31 GMT
#158659
On June 24 2017 09:20 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/gregpmiller/status/878219446267109377

I want to see the same people accusing Trump of divulging classified info to the Russians argue WaPo is doing just great here. I'm sure Putin appreciates knowing precisely which tools are at the US's disposal + Show Spoiler +
but I'd have to ask LegaLord lol

I'm on the line with Putin right now - he is grateful for the support he gets from the #resistance over the past five months.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
June 24 2017 00:31 GMT
#158660
On June 24 2017 09:22 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2017 08:50 zlefin wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:32 GreenHorizons wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:29 LuckyFool wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:25 GreenHorizons wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:22 Danglars wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:09 Doodsmack wrote:
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/878366918243233792

https://twitter.com/berniesanders/status/878353849093824514
https://twitter.com/senwarren/status/877995366049828866

I'm loving this new era of civility. Let's tiptoe right to the edge of calling the GOP murderers right after one almost got assassinated by a Berniebro.


Are you denying people will die as a result of the Republican "healthcare" bill? Because that would seem like a counterfactual claim.

Also "Berniebro" roflmao.


Darn those Republicans for not supporting healthcare that will let people live forever.


I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or just a piss-poor rejoinder.

On June 24 2017 08:31 zlefin wrote:
On June 24 2017 08:14 GreenHorizons wrote:
On June 24 2017 06:08 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/878353139551748096


This man should be fired for that terrible pun (?).

That said, I'd bet it is slightly more substantive without reporters thinking they can make the evening news by peppering Spicer with silly Russia questions.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

I know Trump is a terrible president by practically every measure, but I'm curious what supporters of Hillary think her first ~150 days would have looked like.

Would she have accomplished anything? If so, what? Presumably she would have done a better job at filling departments with cronies, but besides that, would she have been any more effective at passing her agenda than Trump? What parts?

Assuming congress otherwise had the composition it does now;
filling departments with competent people would be the main thing. the claim of them being filled with cronies is unfounded hate, not surprising coming from you though.
I'd assume no major legislative accomplishments, as lacking control of congress it's hard to get such through. I don't think it's enough time for her to do the kind of backroom wrangling she's better at it to get something done legislatively. I'd assume the republicans put forth a bunch fo dumb symbolic bills that she then vetoes.
Alot of her agenda would be continuing what Obama was doing, which is rather easier to do than changing laws.

most of the benefits wouldn't be highly apparent for some time; competent administration is good for a country, but the benefits are generally slow to accumulate and not very visible; much like decent preventative measures.

of course mostly the good part would not be not being the shitshow that is trump


Are you being intentionally dense? You know what the word crony means right? Or you think she would be filling positions with strangers of which she knew nothing of their loyalty?

This isn't even a crack on her, it's what every president has always done.

But the answer seems to be nothing. Considering Democrats are struggling despite having Trump and the walking shit-show the Republicans are in power I think it's fair to say that Democrats would be in even worse shape going into 18 and even less likely to change the house so essentially she wouldn't pass anything for 4 years (like I said during the primary).

Democrats strategy of running on damage mitigation is a loser and will continue to be a loser until they realize it's a loser and change strategies.

no, you're the one being intentionally dense. crony has clear negative connotations that are unjustified in this instance, as you full well know. it's also false that all presidents only fill positions with cronies, as you also full well know.
It's also pretty clear I didn't say nothing, so that's just you strawmanning. don't ask the question if you're going ot pretend the answer is something other than what it is; and lie about what people said.
you're not in a position to complain about strategy when you can't even get basic argumentation right.


What negative connotations does crony have and in what way is it unjustified?

I didn't say she would only fill positions with cronies so that's an argument against one I never made. You did say nothing, you said the big thing would be essentially doing nothing.

I was wondering if there was some substantive progress she would have made and so far the answer is no, she had no plan to do anything and her supporters saying Bernie's inability to compromise would have inhibited his ability to make change was basically hot air as they never expected Hillary to get anything done.

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/25165/does-using-the-word-crony-necessitate-a-negative-connotation
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/crony
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/crony
in modern American english, crony has significant negative connotations.

Not making negative progress is a pretty good thing; and the point of comparison here was to Trump, not to Bernie. So you don't get to randomly bring in Bernie, cuz that wasn't the choice presented for the discussion.
She had TONS of plans to do things, as you darn well konw, and saying otherwise is just you lying again.

I'd expect Hillary to get things done positively if the Dems position in congress was stronger, as it turns out it isn't; and my entire statement you just responded to was SPECIFICALY premised on IF the congressional situation was the same as it is now.
Bernie may've had issues even with Dem control of Congress; but Bernie still isn't that relevant for the comparison here anyways.

Saynig that what I said was essentially nothign is a flat out lie, I reread my statement quite exactingly, and it's not at all close to "nothing" So you're strawmanning again, if you're gonna lie, shitpost, and strawman, just don't post at all.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
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