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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
May 11 2017 00:11 GMT
#149941
Chuckie Schumer's live now. Usual tripe, but what stood out was he directly called on Deputy AG Rosentein to appoint and independent special prosecutor and that everything now rests on him.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
May 11 2017 00:24 GMT
#149942
Speaking of non-general Generals: do we actually have a Surgeon General nominee to replace the person who's been acting Surgeon General?

Apparently at the end of the Bush admin and the start of the Obama admin, we basically had nothing but actings, so it's not unusual and isn't an ultra-high priority agency, but it would be nice to know the future replacement. Especially given all the healthcare drama and Trump's failure to exclude public health from the direct language in his hiring freeze, despite past statements to the contrary.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
May 11 2017 00:35 GMT
#149943
Uhh I thought the Obama admin had one towards the middle of his second term that was just dismissed by Trump.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-11 00:39:47
May 11 2017 00:38 GMT
#149944
BTW my opinion on the Comey dealings.

The only thing comey did truly incorrectly was characterizing findings of his investigation in july as "careless" and "reckless". That was uneccessary and gave political ammo to the republicans. He also fucked up by throwing huma abedin under the bus in his last testimony by incorrectly characterizing her actions of "forwarding thousands of emails with classified information". That was not true. Other than these 2 points, the domino effect of the shitstorm we find ourselves in is caused fundamentally by having TWO presidential candidates both under FBI investigation. I mean what does that say about our system? Secondly, Lorreta Lynch and her DOJ were incapable of being fair. Comey testified that he felt far before the tarmac meeting of lynch and clinton that her doj was not capable of being fair in this matter (for reasons we do not know), and that meeting tipped his hand and then he did the press conferene. Honestly, he was in a bind, and a shit situation surrounded by two candidates who are corrupt/irresponsible enough to be under FBI investigation, and a DOJ that is incapable of even APPEARING to be impartial.

Question.?
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
May 11 2017 00:38 GMT
#149945
On May 11 2017 07:31 crms wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2017 23:38 Doodsmack wrote:
This clip is pretty amazing


the way he shakes his head and eye rolls as he leaves makes it seem like he's annoyed with how stupid that decision is in the context of what's going on with everything. I don't want to place too much thought on that analysis but it was certainly funny. He has to know how bad this looks regardless of any legitimately nefarious undertones.


Just look at Lavrov's eyes right around 20 seconds LOL
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-11 00:51:02
May 11 2017 00:47 GMT
#149946
On May 11 2017 09:38 biology]major wrote:
BTW my opinion on the Comey dealings.

The only thing comey did truly incorrectly was characterizing findings of his investigation in july as "careless" and "reckless". That was uneccessary and gave political ammo to the republicans. He also fucked up by throwing huma abedin under the bus in his last testimony by incorrectly characterizing her actions of "forwarding thousands of emails with classified information". That was not true. Other than these 2 points, the domino effect of the shitstorm we find ourselves in is caused fundamentally by having TWO presidential candidates both under FBI investigation. I mean what does that say about our system? Secondly, Lorreta Lynch and her DOJ were incapable of being fair. Comey testified that he felt far before the tarmac meeting of lynch and clinton that her doj was not capable of being fair in this matter (for reasons we do not know), and that meeting tipped his hand and then he did the press conferene. Honestly, he was in a bind, and a shit situation surrounded by two candidates who are corrupt/irresponsible enough to be under FBI investigation, and a DOJ that is incapable of even APPEARING to be impartial.



it says that the system needs improvement; and that most people are unable to favor the correct changes to actually fix the system, or it'd have been fixed already.
also that a lot of people are partisan hacks, and very incompetent at selecting politicians. and have no understanding how to run a governmental system.


not entirely sure which exact shitstorm you're referring to, as there are several, and might disagree about the classification of "caused fundamentally" (might say it's not a non-fundamental cause), but those don't really matter that much.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-11 00:52:22
May 11 2017 00:51 GMT
#149947
On May 11 2017 09:35 Danglars wrote:
Uhh I thought the Obama admin had one towards the middle of his second term that was just dismissed by Trump.


From a look at wiki Obama took office with an Acting (with three Actings since Bush's stepped down in July 2006) and appointed one in November 2009 that held the position until July 2013; then an Acting took over until December 2014, when Obama's new appointment who was just dismissed was confirmed.

Basically it seems like no one gives a crap about the position. Honestly we might be better off with Acting since they're drawn from within the Public Health Service.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
May 11 2017 01:04 GMT
#149948
Couldn't the Surgeon General be a key person in fighting the opioid epidemic?
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
May 11 2017 01:07 GMT
#149949
Don't think so, the last one said medical marijuana was important, and that didn't do much to help legalize federally at least. But the states because of the voters pushed for it.
Life?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 11 2017 01:07 GMT
#149950
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-11 02:33:29
May 11 2017 02:31 GMT
#149951




edit:
The current US ambassador to Qatar also has this oddly timed tweet :
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
May 11 2017 03:26 GMT
#149952
Every time FBI Director James B. Comey appeared in public, an ever-watchful President Trump grew increasingly agitated that the topic was the one that he was most desperate to avoid: Russia.

Trump had long questioned Comey’s loyalty and judgment, and was infuriated by what he viewed as the director’s lack of action in recent weeks on leaks from within the federal government. By last weekend, he had made up his mind: Comey had to go.

At his golf course in Bedminster, N.J., Trump groused over Comey’s latest congressional testimony, which he thought was “strange,” and grew impatient with what he viewed as his sanctimony, according to White House officials. Comey, Trump figured, was using the Russia probe to become a martyr.

Back at work Monday morning in Washington, Trump told Vice President Pence and several senior aides — Reince Priebus, Stephen K. Bannon and Donald McGahn, among others — that he was ready to move on Comey. First, though, he wanted to talk with Attorney General Jeff Sessions, his trusted confidant, and Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein, to whom Comey reported directly. Trump summoned the two of them to the White House for a meeting, according to a person close to the White House.

The president already had decided to fire Comey, according to this person. But in the meeting, several White House officials said Trump gave Sessions and Rosenstein a directive: to explain in writing the case against Comey.

The pair quickly fulfilled the boss’s orders, and the next day Trump fired Comey — a breathtaking move that thrust a White House already accustomed to chaos into a new level of tumult, one that has legal as well as political consequences.

Rosenstein threatened to resign after the narrative emerging from the White House on Tuesday evening cast him as a prime mover of the decision to fire Comey and that the president acted only on his recommendation, said the person close to the White House, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-trumps-anger-and-impatience-prompted-him-to-fire-the-fbi-director/2017/05/10/d9642334-359c-11e7-b373-418f6849a004_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.0d2a269dd240
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
May 11 2017 04:14 GMT
#149953
Ah, the golf course, the true office of the presidency. Guess it helps to own 50 of them.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-11 05:06:36
May 11 2017 05:05 GMT
#149954
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Vin{MBL}
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
5185 Posts
May 11 2017 05:47 GMT
#149955
On May 11 2017 09:38 biology]major wrote:
BTW my opinion on the Comey dealings.

The only thing comey did truly incorrectly was characterizing findings of his investigation in july as "careless" and "reckless". That was uneccessary and gave political ammo to the republicans. He also fucked up by throwing huma abedin under the bus in his last testimony by incorrectly characterizing her actions of "forwarding thousands of emails with classified information". That was not true. Other than these 2 points, the domino effect of the shitstorm we find ourselves in is caused fundamentally by having TWO presidential candidates both under FBI investigation. I mean what does that say about our system? Secondly, Lorreta Lynch and her DOJ were incapable of being fair. Comey testified that he felt far before the tarmac meeting of lynch and clinton that her doj was not capable of being fair in this matter (for reasons we do not know), and that meeting tipped his hand and then he did the press conferene. Honestly, he was in a bind, and a shit situation surrounded by two candidates who are corrupt/irresponsible enough to be under FBI investigation, and a DOJ that is incapable of even APPEARING to be impartial.



Agree completely. The political system is so corrupt that both candidates were under serious FBI investigates around the election.

Comey got caught in a shitstorm, specifically with regards to Lorreta Lynch and the DOJ favoring clinton in the investigation (which Comey did not give details on but highly alluded to).

People seem to be forgetting how much of a shitstorm the email scandal was before Comey even stepped into the spotlight. Can you imagine with the backlash would have been for Obama and Lynch if he said nothing and the outcome of the Clinton investigation was "no charges brought" with no further explanation (as the democrats wanted?). There would have been so many calls for the AG to resign etc and it would have tarnished the FBI's "independence". And it can be argued there would have been an even greater negative effect on Clinton voter turnout if that was the case.
HalcyonRain
Profile Joined March 2017
United States124 Posts
May 11 2017 06:41 GMT
#149956
NYT has an adorable little letter for AG Rosenstein.

TLDR; "Help me Obi-Wan, you're my only hope, you're such an honorable jedi you corrupt little bastard you better save me."
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
May 11 2017 08:41 GMT
#149957
On May 11 2017 05:27 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Wow, that got a lot of replies.

@all: When another election comes around, I will definitely take into account what I've learned from this one.

@Kwark
I have repeatedly said that you are a smart person but a terrible persuader and this is just more evidence of it.

@zlefin
I honestly heard almost nothing about Russia and Trump prior to the election. There was Michael Flynn, who I knew was highly suspect to say the least, but that was just one man, or so it appeared at the time. I thought once Trump assumed office, Flynn would be gone because of the vetting requirements. The appointment of him as NSA was when I lost all faith in Trump's administration. But that was all in the future at that time.

I heard a lot about the Access Hollywood tape and the Comey letter debacle. The overriding narrative about Trump before the election was that he was a racist/sexist/misogynist/ableist/transphobic/homophobic bigoted evil person but it didn't matter because Clinton was inevitably going to win.

Examination of Trump's Russian ties simply wasn't a very big deal back then, as hard as that may be to remember now.

@plansix
Show nested quote +
Agreed, but it wasn’t like the warnings were not there. Many of the core criticisms of Trump have played out. Complete disregard for the rule of law, systems and offices that exist in government. A dislike for hard work. Completely uneducated on how international relations work and why we provide weapons to our allies. And most importantly, a complete distrust of professionals in a field that don’t tell him exactly what he wants to here.

These are all very good points. The next election, I will be voting with this experience in mind.

@opisska
Show nested quote +
That's a rather hypocritical excuse, don't you think? What "platform they run on" can't be the only way to evaluate your candidates, unless you magically teleport into a world when everyone is honest and perfect.

Trump wasn't even secretive about how big of an idiot he is during the campaign, as evidence by the fact that he was willing to open his mouth in public. You can't ask to not be held accountable for not expecting him to actually act idiotically.

Platforms are the primary part of evaluating any candidate. I always thought Trump was ethically challenged (Trump University, stiffing contractors) and not very bright (as you said, every time he spoke). On the other hand, I agreed with him on the main issues (tax reform, wall, immigration reform, trade deals). My alternative was someone who I considered intelligent but just as crooked and whose platform I disagreed with in the extreme.


I know I am five pages late due to timezones, but ..
wait! You actually agreed on the wall? I was a little expecting that you could challenge the idiot part​ (glad you didn't) and started thinking what would be a good example - and the wall came up rather obviously. I mean even if you discarded his incoherent speech as a persona that some voters like for some reason, then the sole fact that a highly visible part of his platform was a childish, unrealistic, useless and even harmful (ecologically and to local people) penis compensation, speaks volumes about who he is ...

Anyway, good that you said that you are willing to learn from these elections. More people like that! I just thinm that all the information was there already, but what is the point of beating people over it, really ...
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
May 11 2017 09:41 GMT
#149958
On May 11 2017 12:26 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
Show nested quote +
Every time FBI Director James B. Comey appeared in public, an ever-watchful President Trump grew increasingly agitated that the topic was the one that he was most desperate to avoid: Russia.

Trump had long questioned Comey’s loyalty and judgment, and was infuriated by what he viewed as the director’s lack of action in recent weeks on leaks from within the federal government. By last weekend, he had made up his mind: Comey had to go.

At his golf course in Bedminster, N.J., Trump groused over Comey’s latest congressional testimony, which he thought was “strange,” and grew impatient with what he viewed as his sanctimony, according to White House officials. Comey, Trump figured, was using the Russia probe to become a martyr.

Back at work Monday morning in Washington, Trump told Vice President Pence and several senior aides — Reince Priebus, Stephen K. Bannon and Donald McGahn, among others — that he was ready to move on Comey. First, though, he wanted to talk with Attorney General Jeff Sessions, his trusted confidant, and Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein, to whom Comey reported directly. Trump summoned the two of them to the White House for a meeting, according to a person close to the White House.

The president already had decided to fire Comey, according to this person. But in the meeting, several White House officials said Trump gave Sessions and Rosenstein a directive: to explain in writing the case against Comey.

The pair quickly fulfilled the boss’s orders, and the next day Trump fired Comey — a breathtaking move that thrust a White House already accustomed to chaos into a new level of tumult, one that has legal as well as political consequences.

Rosenstein threatened to resign after the narrative emerging from the White House on Tuesday evening cast him as a prime mover of the decision to fire Comey and that the president acted only on his recommendation, said the person close to the White House, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-trumps-anger-and-impatience-prompted-him-to-fire-the-fbi-director/2017/05/10/d9642334-359c-11e7-b373-418f6849a004_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.0d2a269dd240

Bombshell article. This is also a good part:


The stated rationale for Comey’s firing delivered Wednesday by principal deputy White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders was that he had committed “atrocities” in overseeing the FBI’s probe into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server as secretary of state, hurting morale in the bureau and compromising public trust.

“He wasn’t doing a good job,” Trump told reporters Wednesday. “Very simple. He wasn’t doing a good job.”

But the private accounts of more than 30 officials at the White House, the Justice Department, the FBI and on Capitol Hill, as well as Trump confidants and other senior Republicans, paint a conflicting narrative centered on the president’s brewing personal animus toward Comey. Many of those interviewed spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to candidly discuss internal deliberations.

Trump was angry that Comey would not support his baseless claim that President Barack Obama had his campaign offices wiretapped. Trump was frustrated when Comey revealed in Senate testimony the breadth of the counterintelligence investigation into Russia’s effort to sway the 2016 U.S. presidential election. And he fumed that Comey was giving too much attention to the Russia probe and not enough to investigating leaks to journalists.


Looks very much like a personal firing instead of a merit based firing
Neosteel Enthusiast
TheLordofAwesome
Profile Joined May 2014
Korea (South)2656 Posts
May 11 2017 09:45 GMT
#149959
On May 11 2017 17:41 opisska wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2017 05:27 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Wow, that got a lot of replies.

@all: When another election comes around, I will definitely take into account what I've learned from this one.

@Kwark
I have repeatedly said that you are a smart person but a terrible persuader and this is just more evidence of it.

@zlefin
I honestly heard almost nothing about Russia and Trump prior to the election. There was Michael Flynn, who I knew was highly suspect to say the least, but that was just one man, or so it appeared at the time. I thought once Trump assumed office, Flynn would be gone because of the vetting requirements. The appointment of him as NSA was when I lost all faith in Trump's administration. But that was all in the future at that time.

I heard a lot about the Access Hollywood tape and the Comey letter debacle. The overriding narrative about Trump before the election was that he was a racist/sexist/misogynist/ableist/transphobic/homophobic bigoted evil person but it didn't matter because Clinton was inevitably going to win.

Examination of Trump's Russian ties simply wasn't a very big deal back then, as hard as that may be to remember now.

@plansix
Agreed, but it wasn’t like the warnings were not there. Many of the core criticisms of Trump have played out. Complete disregard for the rule of law, systems and offices that exist in government. A dislike for hard work. Completely uneducated on how international relations work and why we provide weapons to our allies. And most importantly, a complete distrust of professionals in a field that don’t tell him exactly what he wants to here.

These are all very good points. The next election, I will be voting with this experience in mind.

@opisska
That's a rather hypocritical excuse, don't you think? What "platform they run on" can't be the only way to evaluate your candidates, unless you magically teleport into a world when everyone is honest and perfect.

Trump wasn't even secretive about how big of an idiot he is during the campaign, as evidence by the fact that he was willing to open his mouth in public. You can't ask to not be held accountable for not expecting him to actually act idiotically.

Platforms are the primary part of evaluating any candidate. I always thought Trump was ethically challenged (Trump University, stiffing contractors) and not very bright (as you said, every time he spoke). On the other hand, I agreed with him on the main issues (tax reform, wall, immigration reform, trade deals). My alternative was someone who I considered intelligent but just as crooked and whose platform I disagreed with in the extreme.


I know I am five pages late due to timezones, but ..
wait! You actually agreed on the wall? I was a little expecting that you could challenge the idiot part​ (glad you didn't) and started thinking what would be a good example - and the wall came up rather obviously. I mean even if you discarded his incoherent speech as a persona that some voters like for some reason, then the sole fact that a highly visible part of his platform was a childish, unrealistic, useless and even harmful (ecologically and to local people) penis compensation, speaks volumes about who he is ...

Anyway, good that you said that you are willing to learn from these elections. More people like that! I just thinm that all the information was there already, but what is the point of beating people over it, really ...

I've lived close to the US southern border almost my whole life. There were over a million and a half illegal immigrants in my state as of 2006, and that number has certainly gone up since then. This manifests itself in very real cultural change. Imagine seeing the communities you grew up in being overrun by foreigners who don't even speak the language, much less share the same cultural traditions as you. They don't assimilate. It is impossible to have immigrants assimilate into the US if they can't even speak English. The situation would not be such a problem if the more than ten million illegal Latin American immigrants were highly skilled workers, but instead most of them are only able to do manual labor.

Anchor babies are a real problem too. The current situation is one where pregnant women sneak over the border and try to evade Border Patrol until they can give birth on U.S. soil, thereby guaranteeing their child American citizenship. This also provides the mother with a pathway to citizenship herself, simply by having the child inside the borders of the United States. You might ask who voted for this ridiculous situation. In fact, Congress has never enacted any such law. I actually can't find any convincing legal basis online. I did find a couple of arguments that the justification stemmed from particular readings of the 14th amendment, but that was obviously bullshit, because Congress had to pass a special act in 1924 to explicitly grant US citizenship to Native Americans born in the United States. So if the citizenship status of Native American kids was in question in 1924, the 14th amendment clearly doesn't grant birthright citizenship to the children of foreign nationals who only have a temporary visa in the U.S. To sum up: the current anchor baby situation is totally nuts and I can't even figure out how it started / what the legal basis is.

The U.S. needs a much stricter immigration system. Copying Canada's merit based system would be a good start. To candidate Trump's credit, he was the only person in either primary even willing to raise these issues. The mass importation of the Third World has got to end. It is destroying the social fabric of this country.
TheLordofAwesome
Profile Joined May 2014
Korea (South)2656 Posts
May 11 2017 09:49 GMT
#149960
On May 11 2017 09:38 biology]major wrote:
BTW my opinion on the Comey dealings.

The only thing comey did truly incorrectly was characterizing findings of his investigation in july as "careless" and "reckless". That was uneccessary and gave political ammo to the republicans. He also fucked up by throwing huma abedin under the bus in his last testimony by incorrectly characterizing her actions of "forwarding thousands of emails with classified information". That was not true. Other than these 2 points, the domino effect of the shitstorm we find ourselves in is caused fundamentally by having TWO presidential candidates both under FBI investigation. I mean what does that say about our system? Secondly, Lorreta Lynch and her DOJ were incapable of being fair. Comey testified that he felt far before the tarmac meeting of lynch and clinton that her doj was not capable of being fair in this matter (for reasons we do not know), and that meeting tipped his hand and then he did the press conferene. Honestly, he was in a bind, and a shit situation surrounded by two candidates who are corrupt/irresponsible enough to be under FBI investigation, and a DOJ that is incapable of even APPEARING to be impartial.


This.

Also, a lot of people are forgetting is that we didn't know Trump was under FBI investigation until a while after the election was over.
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