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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
as long as there's costs to be externalized, you'll be damned if you aint gonna externalize em also it's hilarious that you think the pipeline is opposed by special interests, but clearly the people pushing it are not special interests, nossir, no powerful special interests in the energy sector. Idiot | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On December 29 2013 05:55 JonnyBNoHo wrote: Those are fine concerns but is that the issue here? The opposition to the keystone pipeline comes from national special interest groups who have extra lobbying power due to the pipeline crossing the US boarder. My understanding was that most of the opposition was environmental, but I don't know enough about the issue to care to debate it. | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On December 29 2013 06:05 hypercube wrote: My understanding was that most of the opposition was environmental, but I don't know enough about the issue to care to debate it. It's mainly opposition to tar sand / fracking production. Opposition to the pipeline is being used as a proxy. | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On December 29 2013 06:04 sam!zdat wrote: you acknowledge the theoretical possibility, but you'd never actually admit that it applied to some concrete situation as long as there's costs to be externalized, you'll be damned if you aint gonna externalize em also it's hilarious that you think the pipeline is opposed by special interests, but clearly the people pushing it are not special interests, nossir, no powerful special interests in the energy sector. Idiot Opposing the pipeline will not stop the production. Instead it's pushing the production to use riskier transportation methods. So, congratulations for doing only harm. | ||
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
On December 29 2013 06:15 JonnyBNoHo wrote: Opposing the pipeline will not stop the production. Instead it's pushing the production to use riskier transportation methods. So, congratulations for doing only harm. That's nonsense, transportation and refinery access are an integral cost concern when it comes to tar sand production budgetary analysis. They most certainly have a dramatic impact on production scale decisions. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
it's precisely the idea that the production is inevitable that we oppose, because that is game over for global climatic disruption. Which I know you don't care about the future of the planet, but that's why I hate your idiot guts | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
hey guys, if you oppose factory farming, we are gonna use even more cruel methods. what kind of argumentation is this? | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On December 29 2013 06:22 farvacola wrote: That's nonsense, transportation and refinery access are an integral cost concern when it comes to tar sand production budgetary analysis. They most certainly have a dramatic impact on production scale decisions. Hasn't had a dramatic impact yet. Oil is expensive, a couple extra bucks per barrel isn't a tipping point. On December 29 2013 06:24 sam!zdat wrote: no no jonny you don't get the drug war argument here it's precisely the idea that the production is inevitable that we oppose, because that is game over for global climatic disruption. Which I know you don't care about the future of the planet, but that's why I hate your idiot guts And this is why I hate your idiot guts. Using the pipeline as a proxy for tar sand / fracking opposition is at best ineffective, and at worst counter productive. Why don't you care about that? Ignorance? Indifference? | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On December 29 2013 06:24 Paljas wrote: hey guys, if you oppose the pipeline, we are gonna use even more dangerous transportation methods. hey guys, if you oppose factory farming, we are gonna use even more cruel methods. what kind of argumentation is this? It's called argument by blackmail. Maybe samizdat knows the latin expression. | ||
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On December 29 2013 06:43 farvacola wrote: If it hasn't had a dramatic impact yet, then why are oil interests slobbering all over themselves via pushing the pipeline? This "oh they are going to use riskier methods, better give in" is nothing more than a ploy. They want the pipeline because it's a cheap and stable transportation method. If they don't build it through the US to Cushing they're considering building it to the west coast of Canada and exporting to Asia. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On December 29 2013 06:52 sam!zdat wrote: the tar sands are a bad idea. The pipeline is a bad idea. Shipping across the lake is a bad idea. You know what's a good idea? Ecology and renewable energy. Smash the false idols of consumption and the false god of limitless growth without consequences. In other words, go to hell bourgeois scum So impose worse economic conditions so you don't feel so guilty. Life's not just about you, sam. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
god you are an insufferable twat | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On December 29 2013 06:24 Paljas wrote: hey guys, if you oppose the pipeline, we are gonna use even more dangerous transportation methods. hey guys, if you oppose factory farming, we are gonna use even more cruel methods. what kind of argumentation is this? it's the argument from conservative bullies; don't change anything, or else we'll make things worse! | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
or about good economic conditions for that matter | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On December 29 2013 07:01 sam!zdat wrote: about ME? About ME?? god you are an insufferable twat Chances are very high you are not typing this on some kind of fair trade computer, so It's hypocritical to complain about the "god of growth" and corporate America while typing that on the internet using hardware that is build out of resources that are sold by some African warlord. If you're not living in the woods without any kind of technology or product of modern civilisation you're basically just another profiteer of the system, so it's a little ridiculous to always complain about the "bourgeois scum" while being an integral part of what makes the system work in the first place. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On December 29 2013 06:52 sam!zdat wrote: the tar sands are a bad idea. The pipeline is a bad idea. Shipping across the lake is a bad idea. You know what's a good idea? Ecology and renewable energy. Smash the false idols of consumption and the false god of limitless growth without consequences. In other words, go to hell bourgeois scum The former is just an excuse to get to the latter. I like wallowing in "excess," thank you very much. I don't want to be relegated to drinking scotch that isn't old enough for me to sleep with. | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On December 29 2013 07:20 Paljas wrote: life's isnt just about the oil lobby either or about good economic conditions for that matter Lol, of course. Don't be silly. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14128 Posts
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