|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On May 03 2017 23:48 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2017 23:33 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:26 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 22:29 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2017 22:22 biology]major wrote:
If you're going to have preexisting coverage then the penalty for not having insurance needs to go up and there has to be a way for someone in Arizona to get insurance from a company in Wisconsin. Sigh this is why you don't give entitlements, can't take them away. Yeah man, why don't people with a chronic condition do the right thing and just kill themselves rather then be a burden on society. We have Medicare and Medicaid, the rest can just buy insurance like everyone else before getting sick. If they were born with an illness or develop in childhood, then they can get insurance through their parents (a great provision). It's the people who don't have insurance, get sick and try to get it after the fact that I don't like. My wife does not qualify for either of those and has a PEC. Without the ACA, no insurance would cover her at an affordable rate. Are we just supposed to go bankruptcy because of bad luck? Also my wife has no parents. What the fuck are people who don’t have families supposed to do in your system? What condition and why no insurance prior to it?
None of your business and it doesn’t matter. Your argument is that she doesn’t deserve affordable insurance because we were unlucky. You also don’t think my autistic nephew should be covered because my sister can’t get Medicaid or Medicare because she is also firmly middle class.
|
On May 03 2017 23:57 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2017 23:48 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:33 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:26 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 22:29 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2017 22:22 biology]major wrote:
If you're going to have preexisting coverage then the penalty for not having insurance needs to go up and there has to be a way for someone in Arizona to get insurance from a company in Wisconsin. Sigh this is why you don't give entitlements, can't take them away. Yeah man, why don't people with a chronic condition do the right thing and just kill themselves rather then be a burden on society. We have Medicare and Medicaid, the rest can just buy insurance like everyone else before getting sick. If they were born with an illness or develop in childhood, then they can get insurance through their parents (a great provision). It's the people who don't have insurance, get sick and try to get it after the fact that I don't like. My wife does not qualify for either of those and has a PEC. Without the ACA, no insurance would cover her at an affordable rate. Are we just supposed to go bankruptcy because of bad luck? Also my wife has no parents. What the fuck are people who don’t have families supposed to do in your system? What condition and why no insurance prior to it? None of your business and it doesn’t matter. Your argument is that she doesn’t deserve affordable insurance because we were unlucky. You also don’t think my autistic nephew should be covered because my sister can’t get Medicaid or Medicare because she is also firmly middle class.
Ok, well people buy insurance before getting sick. That's it's purpose. We have entitlement programs for those who need help. The government can protect people with PECs in special circumstances, like if you are born w/ a condition, have no supporting parents, fired from job and have a gap, etc.
|
On May 03 2017 23:56 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2017 23:48 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:33 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:26 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 22:29 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2017 22:22 biology]major wrote:
If you're going to have preexisting coverage then the penalty for not having insurance needs to go up and there has to be a way for someone in Arizona to get insurance from a company in Wisconsin. Sigh this is why you don't give entitlements, can't take them away. Yeah man, why don't people with a chronic condition do the right thing and just kill themselves rather then be a burden on society. We have Medicare and Medicaid, the rest can just buy insurance like everyone else before getting sick. If they were born with an illness or develop in childhood, then they can get insurance through their parents (a great provision). It's the people who don't have insurance, get sick and try to get it after the fact that I don't like. My wife does not qualify for either of those and has a PEC. Without the ACA, no insurance would cover her at an affordable rate. Are we just supposed to go bankruptcy because of bad luck? Also my wife has no parents. What the fuck are people who don’t have families supposed to do in your system? What condition and why no insurance prior to it? Why does it matter? If you have a chronic pre existing condition you are a loss for the insurer anyway. Why even deal with them? The whole system is just an inefficient way of spreading cost around.
Insurance is meant to be purchased before the major life event, before pre-existing conditions. So talking about lapses before plans became unaffordable is the direct question regarding insurance. We talk about plans for subsidized/voucher based catostrophic insurance because the rest might as well be called health care direct subsidy.
|
United States44204 Posts
On May 04 2017 00:00 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2017 23:57 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:48 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:33 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:26 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 22:29 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2017 22:22 biology]major wrote:
If you're going to have preexisting coverage then the penalty for not having insurance needs to go up and there has to be a way for someone in Arizona to get insurance from a company in Wisconsin. Sigh this is why you don't give entitlements, can't take them away. Yeah man, why don't people with a chronic condition do the right thing and just kill themselves rather then be a burden on society. We have Medicare and Medicaid, the rest can just buy insurance like everyone else before getting sick. If they were born with an illness or develop in childhood, then they can get insurance through their parents (a great provision). It's the people who don't have insurance, get sick and try to get it after the fact that I don't like. My wife does not qualify for either of those and has a PEC. Without the ACA, no insurance would cover her at an affordable rate. Are we just supposed to go bankruptcy because of bad luck? Also my wife has no parents. What the fuck are people who don’t have families supposed to do in your system? What condition and why no insurance prior to it? None of your business and it doesn’t matter. Your argument is that she doesn’t deserve affordable insurance because we were unlucky. You also don’t think my autistic nephew should be covered because my sister can’t get Medicaid or Medicare because she is also firmly middle class. Ok, well people buy insurance before getting sick. That's it's purpose. We have entitlement programs for those who need help. The government can help people with PECs in special circumstances, like if you are born w/ a condition, have no supporting parents, fired from job and have a gap, etc.
Employment and insurance isn't for life. If we could take out a blind contract at birth where the insurer doesn't know anything about your conditions and charges you a statistically average amount which is pretty much the same for everyone then this could work. Not linked to employment and valid for as long as you keep making the payments with no medical reassessments for shit that happens after birth. But oddly enough that's exactly what single payer is, it's just the government runs the insurance company.
|
On May 04 2017 00:00 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2017 23:57 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:48 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:33 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:26 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 22:29 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2017 22:22 biology]major wrote:
If you're going to have preexisting coverage then the penalty for not having insurance needs to go up and there has to be a way for someone in Arizona to get insurance from a company in Wisconsin. Sigh this is why you don't give entitlements, can't take them away. Yeah man, why don't people with a chronic condition do the right thing and just kill themselves rather then be a burden on society. We have Medicare and Medicaid, the rest can just buy insurance like everyone else before getting sick. If they were born with an illness or develop in childhood, then they can get insurance through their parents (a great provision). It's the people who don't have insurance, get sick and try to get it after the fact that I don't like. My wife does not qualify for either of those and has a PEC. Without the ACA, no insurance would cover her at an affordable rate. Are we just supposed to go bankruptcy because of bad luck? Also my wife has no parents. What the fuck are people who don’t have families supposed to do in your system? What condition and why no insurance prior to it? None of your business and it doesn’t matter. Your argument is that she doesn’t deserve affordable insurance because we were unlucky. You also don’t think my autistic nephew should be covered because my sister can’t get Medicaid or Medicare because she is also firmly middle class. Ok, well people buy insurance before getting sick. That's it's purpose. We have entitlement programs for those who need help. The government can protect people with PECs in special circumstances, like if you are born w/ a condition, have no supporting parents, fired from job and have a gap, etc.
She had insurance when she found out she had this condition. She still has insurance. What you are talking about is depriving her of the ability to move, change jobs or do anything beyond stay where she is forever or risk losing coverage.
You seem to not understand the very basics of health insurance, PECs or why people want these protections. She is never going to get rid of this condition. Just like someone who had cancer and is in remission(also a PEC pre-ACA).
|
On May 04 2017 00:01 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2017 23:56 Sadist wrote:On May 03 2017 23:48 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:33 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:26 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 22:29 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2017 22:22 biology]major wrote:
If you're going to have preexisting coverage then the penalty for not having insurance needs to go up and there has to be a way for someone in Arizona to get insurance from a company in Wisconsin. Sigh this is why you don't give entitlements, can't take them away. Yeah man, why don't people with a chronic condition do the right thing and just kill themselves rather then be a burden on society. We have Medicare and Medicaid, the rest can just buy insurance like everyone else before getting sick. If they were born with an illness or develop in childhood, then they can get insurance through their parents (a great provision). It's the people who don't have insurance, get sick and try to get it after the fact that I don't like. My wife does not qualify for either of those and has a PEC. Without the ACA, no insurance would cover her at an affordable rate. Are we just supposed to go bankruptcy because of bad luck? Also my wife has no parents. What the fuck are people who don’t have families supposed to do in your system? What condition and why no insurance prior to it? Why does it matter? If you have a chronic pre existing condition you are a loss for the insurer anyway. Why even deal with them? The whole system is just an inefficient way of spreading cost around. Insurance is meant to be purchased before the major life event, before pre-existing conditions. So talking about lapses before plans became unaffordable is the direct question regarding insurance. We talk about plans for subsidized/voucher based catostrophic insurance because the rest might as well be called health care direct subsidy.
My point is a pre existing or chronic condition is by definition not something insursance would cover in any other situation. If you have to take pills every month and know you will for the rest of your life where is the insurance there? Its just spreading cost around inefficiently.
My dad had epilepsy and his pills were $800 a month. He was for sure a negative on his insurance company. Im sure his insurance cost less than his care. He had no lapses in coverage so they paid for it. Realistically hes a loss for them either way. Who cares about the lapses? The system sucks.
|
If Obamacare can be said to spread the costs of insuring everyone across the entire population, then perhaps we should focus on the other problem: that it doesn't do nearly enough to actually reduce those prices by reducing the overall average cost of healthcare. Which means it's a tough program to get rid of because it is a step in the direction of better healthcare but it's more of a stopgap than a long-term solution to shitty healthcare in the US.
|
On May 04 2017 00:04 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2017 00:00 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:57 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:48 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:33 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:26 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 22:29 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2017 22:22 biology]major wrote:
If you're going to have preexisting coverage then the penalty for not having insurance needs to go up and there has to be a way for someone in Arizona to get insurance from a company in Wisconsin. Sigh this is why you don't give entitlements, can't take them away. Yeah man, why don't people with a chronic condition do the right thing and just kill themselves rather then be a burden on society. We have Medicare and Medicaid, the rest can just buy insurance like everyone else before getting sick. If they were born with an illness or develop in childhood, then they can get insurance through their parents (a great provision). It's the people who don't have insurance, get sick and try to get it after the fact that I don't like. My wife does not qualify for either of those and has a PEC. Without the ACA, no insurance would cover her at an affordable rate. Are we just supposed to go bankruptcy because of bad luck? Also my wife has no parents. What the fuck are people who don’t have families supposed to do in your system? What condition and why no insurance prior to it? None of your business and it doesn’t matter. Your argument is that she doesn’t deserve affordable insurance because we were unlucky. You also don’t think my autistic nephew should be covered because my sister can’t get Medicaid or Medicare because she is also firmly middle class. Ok, well people buy insurance before getting sick. That's it's purpose. We have entitlement programs for those who need help. The government can protect people with PECs in special circumstances, like if you are born w/ a condition, have no supporting parents, fired from job and have a gap, etc. She had insurance when she found out she had this condition. She still has insurance. What you are talking about is depriving her of the ability to move, change jobs or do anything beyond stay where she is forever or risk losing coverage. You seem to not understand the very basics of health insurance, PECs or why people want these protections. She is never going to get rid of this condition. Just like someone who had cancer and is in remission(also a PEC pre-ACA).
aren't there rules that say if someone acquired a condition while under health insurance, and then move to a new health insurance plan, the new plan also has to cover it?
|
|
|
On May 04 2017 00:01 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2017 23:56 Sadist wrote:On May 03 2017 23:48 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:33 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:26 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 22:29 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2017 22:22 biology]major wrote:
If you're going to have preexisting coverage then the penalty for not having insurance needs to go up and there has to be a way for someone in Arizona to get insurance from a company in Wisconsin. Sigh this is why you don't give entitlements, can't take them away. Yeah man, why don't people with a chronic condition do the right thing and just kill themselves rather then be a burden on society. We have Medicare and Medicaid, the rest can just buy insurance like everyone else before getting sick. If they were born with an illness or develop in childhood, then they can get insurance through their parents (a great provision). It's the people who don't have insurance, get sick and try to get it after the fact that I don't like. My wife does not qualify for either of those and has a PEC. Without the ACA, no insurance would cover her at an affordable rate. Are we just supposed to go bankruptcy because of bad luck? Also my wife has no parents. What the fuck are people who don’t have families supposed to do in your system? What condition and why no insurance prior to it? Why does it matter? If you have a chronic pre existing condition you are a loss for the insurer anyway. Why even deal with them? The whole system is just an inefficient way of spreading cost around. Insurance is meant to be purchased before the major life event, before pre-existing conditions. So talking about lapses before plans became unaffordable is the direct question regarding insurance. We talk about plans for subsidized/voucher based catostrophic insurance because the rest might as well be called health care direct subsidy.
How do you purchase healthcare before you are born?
Why is someone who had cancer/diabetes whatever not allowed to ever switch insurers?
If they are insured is via their workplace, are they ever allowed to switch jobs? What if they get fired?
We have been over this so many times already....
|
On May 04 2017 00:04 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2017 00:00 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:57 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:48 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:33 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:26 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 22:29 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2017 22:22 biology]major wrote:
If you're going to have preexisting coverage then the penalty for not having insurance needs to go up and there has to be a way for someone in Arizona to get insurance from a company in Wisconsin. Sigh this is why you don't give entitlements, can't take them away. Yeah man, why don't people with a chronic condition do the right thing and just kill themselves rather then be a burden on society. We have Medicare and Medicaid, the rest can just buy insurance like everyone else before getting sick. If they were born with an illness or develop in childhood, then they can get insurance through their parents (a great provision). It's the people who don't have insurance, get sick and try to get it after the fact that I don't like. My wife does not qualify for either of those and has a PEC. Without the ACA, no insurance would cover her at an affordable rate. Are we just supposed to go bankruptcy because of bad luck? Also my wife has no parents. What the fuck are people who don’t have families supposed to do in your system? What condition and why no insurance prior to it? None of your business and it doesn’t matter. Your argument is that she doesn’t deserve affordable insurance because we were unlucky. You also don’t think my autistic nephew should be covered because my sister can’t get Medicaid or Medicare because she is also firmly middle class. Ok, well people buy insurance before getting sick. That's it's purpose. We have entitlement programs for those who need help. The government can protect people with PECs in special circumstances, like if you are born w/ a condition, have no supporting parents, fired from job and have a gap, etc. She had insurance when she found out she had this condition. She still has insurance. What you are talking about is depriving her of the ability to move, change jobs or do anything beyond stay where she is forever or risk losing coverage. You seem to not understand the very basics of health insurance, PECs or why people want these protections. She is never going to get rid of this condition. Just like someone who had cancer and is in remission(also a PEC pre-ACA).
Dont even get me started on the downsides of employer based insurance programsm. You get double fucked if you get laid off with high insurance premiums. Why should you have added out of pocket unknown expenses when you are already screwed when you lost your job? Not to mention i think it keeps wages down because people are less likely to switch jobs and lose coverage or get worse benefits.
|
On May 04 2017 00:04 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2017 00:00 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:57 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:48 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:33 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:26 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 22:29 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2017 22:22 biology]major wrote:
If you're going to have preexisting coverage then the penalty for not having insurance needs to go up and there has to be a way for someone in Arizona to get insurance from a company in Wisconsin. Sigh this is why you don't give entitlements, can't take them away. Yeah man, why don't people with a chronic condition do the right thing and just kill themselves rather then be a burden on society. We have Medicare and Medicaid, the rest can just buy insurance like everyone else before getting sick. If they were born with an illness or develop in childhood, then they can get insurance through their parents (a great provision). It's the people who don't have insurance, get sick and try to get it after the fact that I don't like. My wife does not qualify for either of those and has a PEC. Without the ACA, no insurance would cover her at an affordable rate. Are we just supposed to go bankruptcy because of bad luck? Also my wife has no parents. What the fuck are people who don’t have families supposed to do in your system? What condition and why no insurance prior to it? None of your business and it doesn’t matter. Your argument is that she doesn’t deserve affordable insurance because we were unlucky. You also don’t think my autistic nephew should be covered because my sister can’t get Medicaid or Medicare because she is also firmly middle class. Ok, well people buy insurance before getting sick. That's it's purpose. We have entitlement programs for those who need help. The government can protect people with PECs in special circumstances, like if you are born w/ a condition, have no supporting parents, fired from job and have a gap, etc. She had insurance when she found out she had this condition. She still has insurance. What you are talking about is depriving her of the ability to move, change jobs or do anything beyond stay where she is forever or risk losing coverage. You seem to not understand the very basics of health insurance, PECs or why people want these protections. She is never going to get rid of this condition. Just like someone who had cancer and is in remission(also a PEC pre-ACA).
The basics of health insurance make no sense, why is it tied to employer? Where is the free choice? That is what I'd like to see fixed, not these inefficient band aid systems in place that give blanket coverage and destroy the whole purpose of insurance.
|
On May 04 2017 00:08 LegalLord wrote:
If Obamacare can be said to spread the costs of insuring everyone across the entire population, then perhaps we should focus on the other problem: that it doesn't do nearly enough to actually reduce those prices by reducing the overall average cost of healthcare. Which means it's a tough program to get rid of because it is a step in the direction of better healthcare but it's more of a stopgap than a long-term solution to shitty healthcare in the US.
Well go ask the Republicans why they are not trying to have a slam dunk win by offering a healthcare system that improves on the ACA by keeping coverage but drives down costs...
Instead they are trying to ... I don't know... make everything worse with both higher costs and less coverage.
|
On May 04 2017 00:09 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2017 00:04 Plansix wrote:On May 04 2017 00:00 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:57 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:48 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:33 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:26 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 22:29 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2017 22:22 biology]major wrote:
If you're going to have preexisting coverage then the penalty for not having insurance needs to go up and there has to be a way for someone in Arizona to get insurance from a company in Wisconsin. Sigh this is why you don't give entitlements, can't take them away. Yeah man, why don't people with a chronic condition do the right thing and just kill themselves rather then be a burden on society. We have Medicare and Medicaid, the rest can just buy insurance like everyone else before getting sick. If they were born with an illness or develop in childhood, then they can get insurance through their parents (a great provision). It's the people who don't have insurance, get sick and try to get it after the fact that I don't like. My wife does not qualify for either of those and has a PEC. Without the ACA, no insurance would cover her at an affordable rate. Are we just supposed to go bankruptcy because of bad luck? Also my wife has no parents. What the fuck are people who don’t have families supposed to do in your system? What condition and why no insurance prior to it? None of your business and it doesn’t matter. Your argument is that she doesn’t deserve affordable insurance because we were unlucky. You also don’t think my autistic nephew should be covered because my sister can’t get Medicaid or Medicare because she is also firmly middle class. Ok, well people buy insurance before getting sick. That's it's purpose. We have entitlement programs for those who need help. The government can protect people with PECs in special circumstances, like if you are born w/ a condition, have no supporting parents, fired from job and have a gap, etc. She had insurance when she found out she had this condition. She still has insurance. What you are talking about is depriving her of the ability to move, change jobs or do anything beyond stay where she is forever or risk losing coverage. You seem to not understand the very basics of health insurance, PECs or why people want these protections. She is never going to get rid of this condition. Just like someone who had cancer and is in remission(also a PEC pre-ACA). aren't there rules that say if someone acquired a condition while under health insurance, and then move to a new health insurance plan, the new plan also has to cover it?
Not before the ACA in every state. And I don’t want to have to become an expert on state healthcare laws every time we decide to move to a new state or before accepting/applying for new jobs.
Man, there is this great job for us. Better check to make sure this state’s healthcare laws are not from the 1930s and see how they apply my wife’s specific condition. I’m sure that will be spelled out in clear language in the laws, because that is how law works.
|
On May 04 2017 00:07 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2017 00:01 Danglars wrote:On May 03 2017 23:56 Sadist wrote:On May 03 2017 23:48 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:33 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:26 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 22:29 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2017 22:22 biology]major wrote:
If you're going to have preexisting coverage then the penalty for not having insurance needs to go up and there has to be a way for someone in Arizona to get insurance from a company in Wisconsin. Sigh this is why you don't give entitlements, can't take them away. Yeah man, why don't people with a chronic condition do the right thing and just kill themselves rather then be a burden on society. We have Medicare and Medicaid, the rest can just buy insurance like everyone else before getting sick. If they were born with an illness or develop in childhood, then they can get insurance through their parents (a great provision). It's the people who don't have insurance, get sick and try to get it after the fact that I don't like. My wife does not qualify for either of those and has a PEC. Without the ACA, no insurance would cover her at an affordable rate. Are we just supposed to go bankruptcy because of bad luck? Also my wife has no parents. What the fuck are people who don’t have families supposed to do in your system? What condition and why no insurance prior to it? Why does it matter? If you have a chronic pre existing condition you are a loss for the insurer anyway. Why even deal with them? The whole system is just an inefficient way of spreading cost around. Insurance is meant to be purchased before the major life event, before pre-existing conditions. So talking about lapses before plans became unaffordable is the direct question regarding insurance. We talk about plans for subsidized/voucher based catostrophic insurance because the rest might as well be called health care direct subsidy. My point is a pre existing or chronic condition is by definition not something insursance would cover in any other situation. If you have to take pills every month and know you will for the rest of your life where is the insurance there? Its just spreading cost around inefficiently. My dad had epilepsy and his pills were $800 a month. He was for sure a negative on his insurance company. Im sure his insurance cost less than his care. He had no lapses in coverage so they paid for it. Realistically hes a loss for them either way. Who cares about the lapses? The system sucks.
Which is why you purchase insurance against the risk that happens in the future. Pay no attention to the burning house, tell me why I can't buy fire insurance!! Call it subsidized medical care if you want, but the reasons for non-purchase matters when they're conditions, not pre-existing conditions. Decentering the plans from employers, allowing you to keep them between jobs as new employers pay in, and other subsidies aimed at small gaps between jobs, or education, also incorporates the structure of insurance-as-such.
|
So you are obviously for making healthcare insurence mandatory for everyone so that this problem cannot happen anymore. If i understand your system correctly, people chose to not be insured because it is so expensive as non-social capitalism sees no need to be cheap when it's a sellers market. And health is a sellers market. So people don't buy insurence get sick and then die because they could either get health insurence for even higher costs or pay medical bills for tens of thousands dollars. Or the insurance company could simply deny coverage.
So, let me get this into perspective. I am paying around 300€ per month for insurance and i have not taken out anything but dental care. If i lived in the States, i suppose they would do a medical examination and get background info on me to know the risks and then tell me how much i would need to pay based on that. So what would a reasonably fit 34 year old man in the states pay without government subsidies? And then i would have to check what services are in my insurance? And it could be cancer is not covered, or dental, or whatever?
And what exactly does Medicaid and Medicare do, is the government simply subsidizing a part of the payment you make with a company or are these preset policies you can get for a fixed price?
|
On May 04 2017 00:13 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2017 00:09 zlefin wrote:On May 04 2017 00:04 Plansix wrote:On May 04 2017 00:00 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:57 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:48 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:33 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:26 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 22:29 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2017 22:22 biology]major wrote:
If you're going to have preexisting coverage then the penalty for not having insurance needs to go up and there has to be a way for someone in Arizona to get insurance from a company in Wisconsin. Sigh this is why you don't give entitlements, can't take them away. Yeah man, why don't people with a chronic condition do the right thing and just kill themselves rather then be a burden on society. We have Medicare and Medicaid, the rest can just buy insurance like everyone else before getting sick. If they were born with an illness or develop in childhood, then they can get insurance through their parents (a great provision). It's the people who don't have insurance, get sick and try to get it after the fact that I don't like. My wife does not qualify for either of those and has a PEC. Without the ACA, no insurance would cover her at an affordable rate. Are we just supposed to go bankruptcy because of bad luck? Also my wife has no parents. What the fuck are people who don’t have families supposed to do in your system? What condition and why no insurance prior to it? None of your business and it doesn’t matter. Your argument is that she doesn’t deserve affordable insurance because we were unlucky. You also don’t think my autistic nephew should be covered because my sister can’t get Medicaid or Medicare because she is also firmly middle class. Ok, well people buy insurance before getting sick. That's it's purpose. We have entitlement programs for those who need help. The government can protect people with PECs in special circumstances, like if you are born w/ a condition, have no supporting parents, fired from job and have a gap, etc. She had insurance when she found out she had this condition. She still has insurance. What you are talking about is depriving her of the ability to move, change jobs or do anything beyond stay where she is forever or risk losing coverage. You seem to not understand the very basics of health insurance, PECs or why people want these protections. She is never going to get rid of this condition. Just like someone who had cancer and is in remission(also a PEC pre-ACA). aren't there rules that say if someone acquired a condition while under health insurance, and then move to a new health insurance plan, the new plan also has to cover it? Not before the ACA in every state. And I don’t want to have to become an expert on state healthcare laws every time we decide to move to a new state or before accepting/applying for new jobs. Man, there is this great job for us. Better check to make sure this state’s healthcare laws are not from the 1930s and see how they apply my wife’s specific condition. I’m sure that will be spelled out in clear language in the laws, because that is how law works.
ah, ok, musta just been my state then.
|
On May 04 2017 00:12 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2017 00:04 Plansix wrote:On May 04 2017 00:00 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:57 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:48 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:33 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:26 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 22:29 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2017 22:22 biology]major wrote:
If you're going to have preexisting coverage then the penalty for not having insurance needs to go up and there has to be a way for someone in Arizona to get insurance from a company in Wisconsin. Sigh this is why you don't give entitlements, can't take them away. Yeah man, why don't people with a chronic condition do the right thing and just kill themselves rather then be a burden on society. We have Medicare and Medicaid, the rest can just buy insurance like everyone else before getting sick. If they were born with an illness or develop in childhood, then they can get insurance through their parents (a great provision). It's the people who don't have insurance, get sick and try to get it after the fact that I don't like. My wife does not qualify for either of those and has a PEC. Without the ACA, no insurance would cover her at an affordable rate. Are we just supposed to go bankruptcy because of bad luck? Also my wife has no parents. What the fuck are people who don’t have families supposed to do in your system? What condition and why no insurance prior to it? None of your business and it doesn’t matter. Your argument is that she doesn’t deserve affordable insurance because we were unlucky. You also don’t think my autistic nephew should be covered because my sister can’t get Medicaid or Medicare because she is also firmly middle class. Ok, well people buy insurance before getting sick. That's it's purpose. We have entitlement programs for those who need help. The government can protect people with PECs in special circumstances, like if you are born w/ a condition, have no supporting parents, fired from job and have a gap, etc. She had insurance when she found out she had this condition. She still has insurance. What you are talking about is depriving her of the ability to move, change jobs or do anything beyond stay where she is forever or risk losing coverage. You seem to not understand the very basics of health insurance, PECs or why people want these protections. She is never going to get rid of this condition. Just like someone who had cancer and is in remission(also a PEC pre-ACA). The basics of health insurance make no sense, why is it tied to employer? Where is the free choice? That is what I'd like to see fixed, not these inefficient band aid systems in place that give blanket coverage and destroy the whole purpose of insurance.
Because employers are the only ones that can afford the system by pooling all their employees together. It doesn’t make sense because it is a system that operates on a free market and doesn’t work like providing people with food or transportation. Once we decided we didn’t want people to die from preventable things just because they couldn’t afford the ER, it was just a question of how we are all going to pay for it.
|
On May 04 2017 00:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2017 00:12 biology]major wrote:On May 04 2017 00:04 Plansix wrote:On May 04 2017 00:00 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:57 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:48 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 23:33 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 23:26 biology]major wrote:On May 03 2017 22:29 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2017 22:22 biology]major wrote:
If you're going to have preexisting coverage then the penalty for not having insurance needs to go up and there has to be a way for someone in Arizona to get insurance from a company in Wisconsin. Sigh this is why you don't give entitlements, can't take them away. Yeah man, why don't people with a chronic condition do the right thing and just kill themselves rather then be a burden on society. We have Medicare and Medicaid, the rest can just buy insurance like everyone else before getting sick. If they were born with an illness or develop in childhood, then they can get insurance through their parents (a great provision). It's the people who don't have insurance, get sick and try to get it after the fact that I don't like. My wife does not qualify for either of those and has a PEC. Without the ACA, no insurance would cover her at an affordable rate. Are we just supposed to go bankruptcy because of bad luck? Also my wife has no parents. What the fuck are people who don’t have families supposed to do in your system? What condition and why no insurance prior to it? None of your business and it doesn’t matter. Your argument is that she doesn’t deserve affordable insurance because we were unlucky. You also don’t think my autistic nephew should be covered because my sister can’t get Medicaid or Medicare because she is also firmly middle class. Ok, well people buy insurance before getting sick. That's it's purpose. We have entitlement programs for those who need help. The government can protect people with PECs in special circumstances, like if you are born w/ a condition, have no supporting parents, fired from job and have a gap, etc. She had insurance when she found out she had this condition. She still has insurance. What you are talking about is depriving her of the ability to move, change jobs or do anything beyond stay where she is forever or risk losing coverage. You seem to not understand the very basics of health insurance, PECs or why people want these protections. She is never going to get rid of this condition. Just like someone who had cancer and is in remission(also a PEC pre-ACA). The basics of health insurance make no sense, why is it tied to employer? Where is the free choice? That is what I'd like to see fixed, not these inefficient band aid systems in place that give blanket coverage and destroy the whole purpose of insurance. Because employers are the only ones that can afford the system by pooling all their employees together. It doesn’t make sense because it is a system that operates on a free market and doesn’t work like providing people with food or transportation. Once we decided we didn’t want people to die from preventable things just because they couldn’t afford the ER, it was just a question of how we are all going to pay for it.
Exactly. Then people complain about risk pools and the lot. The biggest most efficient risk pool for spreading cost around is the entire fucking country!
|
The consistent nature of need for healthcare makes "insurance" a pretty shitty model for covering healthcare cost. Contrast to, perhaps, something like your house burning down.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
