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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10156 Posts
April 20 2017 11:07 GMT
#147241
I've met enough women who were abused or harassed when i was in the army. I can only imagine how fucking retarded the situation could get into a submarine.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 20 2017 11:14 GMT
#147242
If you filed for an extension on your taxes this week, you're right in step with the Trump administration and Republicans in Congress. They've put off voting on their promised tax overhaul until after they take another whack at repealing and replacing Obamacare.

That's got some Republicans concerned, including Stephen Moore, who was an economic adviser to the Trump campaign.

"You, know, you've got a period when you're first elected when you've got to rush to get things done," says Moore, "before that window slams shut."

But here we are in mid-April, Moore says, President Trump has no legislative victories, and his Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin says a tax cut will have to wait until the fall.

Moore believes Trump needs a win and should push a tax right now.

"Do something that's achievable," he says, pointing out that Trump ran on a corporate and business tax cut. "Get that done. This is taking too long and it gets harder to do as each week goes by."

Moore does have some skin in this game: He's co-author of the tax overhaul plan Donald Trump ran on during the election. But nearly 100 days into his administration, Trump hasn't sent Congress that or any other tax plan.

Moore thinks the lack of a tax bill already is having negative effects: Growth seems to be slowing, and the latest monthly jobs numbers for March were disappointing. When he talks to investors and businesses and asks why things seem to be slowing, they say they're getting nervous that Trump's tax cut may not happen.

Jon Traub, a former Republican staff director at the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, says the outlines of a Trump tax bill are still unclear. "We're still waiting to figure out what President Trump is going to embrace," says Traub, who's now at the consulting firm Deloitte.

The biggest question, he says, is whether Trump will get behind the controversial border adjustment tax. It's a key element of a dramatic plan supported by House Republican leaders to overhaul the tax code. The proposal, a 20 percent tax on all imports, is attractive because it would raise a huge amount of revenue. The plan simultaneously eliminates taxes on American exports.

The proposal has divided the U.S. business community. Not surprisingly, retailers like Walmart that import products they sell, hate it. On the other hand, exporters like Boeing love it.

"The president has given mixed signals on that issue," says Traub. "I think it's fair to say that without his active support, that proposal can probably not pass the House or the Senate."

If Trump doesn't support the border adjustment tax, he would need to find some other way to raise the hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue needed to cut tax rates without adding to federal budget deficits. The White House has floated several ideas for getting that revenue, including a carbon tax and a value-added tax (VAT); neither previously has had much Republican support.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LemOn
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United Kingdom8629 Posts
April 20 2017 13:10 GMT
#147243
O'Reilly is out
Say what you will about his views and agenda
He was a damned good entertainer, his interviews with Colbert and Stewart were legendary
I'm going to miss the guy
Much is the father figure that I miss in my life. Go Daddy! DoC.LemOn, LemOn[5thF]
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 20 2017 13:11 GMT
#147244
O'Reilly was an egomaniac hence why Stewart and Colbert could troll him so often that he thought he was outsmarting them.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LemOn
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United Kingdom8629 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-20 13:14:25
April 20 2017 13:12 GMT
#147245
Colbert really respected him though, and that should tell you something

And so much what he did was a front, watching them talk was seeing a beautifully orchestrated wrestling match.
With some sincerity thrown in later on with regards to e.g. the shootings
Much is the father figure that I miss in my life. Go Daddy! DoC.LemOn, LemOn[5thF]
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-20 13:26:56
April 20 2017 13:24 GMT
#147246
I know it's a rather minor topic amidst the current slew of events, but I find O'Reilly's story quite interesting. He is obviously a very intelligent person, eloquent and highly skilled - and even though he was mainly representing "the other camp" from my point of view, he was capable of some reflection and wasn't buying all of Trump's bullshit. Yet, he goes down in the most stereotypical way possible. Just what you would expect from a rich white republican in position of power, isn't it? As far as I understand, he was never really convinced of anything (it's all settlements) so it's a little tricky to say what he "did", but five sexual harassment lawsuits, really? Is it some inane part of the conservative view of the world, to be a sexist pig? Because it seems like there is a kind of a pattern emerging ...

edit: speaking of Colbert respecting him, his final address wasn't very ...respectful But their in-person interactions were always great.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18394 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-20 13:28:33
April 20 2017 13:27 GMT
#147247
On April 20 2017 22:24 opisska wrote:
I know it's a rather minor topic amidst the current slew of events, but I find O'Reilly's story quite interesting. He is obviously a very intelligent person, eloquent and highly skilled - and even though he was mainly representing "the other camp" from my point of view, he was capable of some reflection and wasn't buying all of Trump's bullshit. Yet, he goes down in the most stereotypical way possible. Just what you would expect from a rich white republican in position of power, isn't it? As far as I understand, he was never really convinced of anything (it's all settlements) so it's a little tricky to say what he "did", but five sexual harassment lawsuits, really? Is it some inane part of the conservative view of the world, to be a sexist pig? Because it seems like there is a kind of a pattern emerging ...

It's not just conservatives. It's rich white men.

Actually, let me clarify. Rich white men is too unnuanced. It's men in positions of power. They just happen to be rich white men more often than not.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
April 20 2017 13:39 GMT
#147248
I actually only watch Fox News if I'm watching cable news (which isn't often) and I watched O'Reilly a fair amount over the years for the entertainment value. But his treatment of women on air did always make me uneasy. If it weren't for that, I could have gotten behind him more, despite not agreeing with his politics (although he did have a claim to some independence as opposed to just being right wing).
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8150 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-20 14:03:58
April 20 2017 13:49 GMT
#147249
On April 20 2017 22:27 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2017 22:24 opisska wrote:
I know it's a rather minor topic amidst the current slew of events, but I find O'Reilly's story quite interesting. He is obviously a very intelligent person, eloquent and highly skilled - and even though he was mainly representing "the other camp" from my point of view, he was capable of some reflection and wasn't buying all of Trump's bullshit. Yet, he goes down in the most stereotypical way possible. Just what you would expect from a rich white republican in position of power, isn't it? As far as I understand, he was never really convinced of anything (it's all settlements) so it's a little tricky to say what he "did", but five sexual harassment lawsuits, really? Is it some inane part of the conservative view of the world, to be a sexist pig? Because it seems like there is a kind of a pattern emerging ...

It's not just conservatives. It's rich white men.

Actually, let me clarify. Rich white men is too unnuanced. It's men in positions of power. They just happen to be rich white men more often than not.

The problematic thing when they happen to be republican is that they more often than not have spent their life self righteously preaching "family values" and sexual moral. Just like priests abusing children while the catholic church pretends to incarnate some higher sexual moral and judges people all the time based on their sexuality, it's the hypocrisy that is the most disgusting.

I'm glad to see him go.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
April 20 2017 13:59 GMT
#147250
On April 20 2017 22:49 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2017 22:27 Acrofales wrote:
On April 20 2017 22:24 opisska wrote:
I know it's a rather minor topic amidst the current slew of events, but I find O'Reilly's story quite interesting. He is obviously a very intelligent person, eloquent and highly skilled - and even though he was mainly representing "the other camp" from my point of view, he was capable of some reflection and wasn't buying all of Trump's bullshit. Yet, he goes down in the most stereotypical way possible. Just what you would expect from a rich white republican in position of power, isn't it? As far as I understand, he was never really convinced of anything (it's all settlements) so it's a little tricky to say what he "did", but five sexual harassment lawsuits, really? Is it some inane part of the conservative view of the world, to be a sexist pig? Because it seems like there is a kind of a pattern emerging ...

It's not just conservatives. It's rich white men.

Actually, let me clarify. Rich white men is too unnuanced. It's men in positions of power. They just happen to be rich white men more often than not.

The problematic thing when they happen to be republican is that they more often than not have spent their life self righteously preaching "family values" and sexual moral. Just like priests abusing children while the catholic church pretends to incarnate some higher sexual moral and judges people all the time based on their sexuality, it's the hypocrisie that is the most disgusting.

I'm glad to see him go.


This is especially the case with Bill O'Reilly, "culture warrior".
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
April 20 2017 14:02 GMT
#147251
On April 20 2017 22:24 opisska wrote:
I know it's a rather minor topic amidst the current slew of events, but I find O'Reilly's story quite interesting. He is obviously a very intelligent person, eloquent and highly skilled - and even though he was mainly representing "the other camp" from my point of view, he was capable of some reflection and wasn't buying all of Trump's bullshit. Yet, he goes down in the most stereotypical way possible. Just what you would expect from a rich white republican in position of power, isn't it? As far as I understand, he was never really convinced of anything (it's all settlements) so it's a little tricky to say what he "did", but five sexual harassment lawsuits, really? Is it some inane part of the conservative view of the world, to be a sexist pig? Because it seems like there is a kind of a pattern emerging ...

edit: speaking of Colbert respecting him, his final address wasn't very ...respectful But their in-person interactions were always great.


Fox coughed up some serious cash because of these harassment claims. Avoiding an actual conviction is the *reason* for settling outside of court. Fox would not have had to offer so much money if the women didn't have compelling evidence. If fox paid $13M, it is pretty much set in stone he did it.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
April 20 2017 14:12 GMT
#147252
Personally I wouldn't equate a settlement with guilt, because it can just be a calculation of how much litigation would be expected to cost. The costs are high enough that settlement comes into play. But I have no doubt BillO is guilty.

Fox itself is pretty damn complicit in the sex harassment by powerful males culture. See: Roger Ailes, and the fact that these departures only happened once they got outed to the public.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-20 14:33:34
April 20 2017 14:33 GMT
#147253
I'll be surprised if the US isn't globally isolated because of this dipshit in 4 years.

South Korea’s government wants to know whether Chinese President Xi Jinping gave alternative facts on the nation’s history to Donald Trump.

In an interview with the Wall Street Journal last week, Trump said Xi told him during a recent summit that “Korea actually used to be a part of China.” The comments sparked outrage in Seoul and became an issue in South Korea’s presidential race, prompting the foreign ministry to seek to verify what Xi actually said.

“It’s a clear fact acknowledged by the international community that, for thousands of years in history, Korea has never been part of China,” foreign ministry spokesman Cho June-hyuck said at a briefing in Seoul on Thursday.

Trump has sought to get China -- North Korea’s main ally and benefactor -- to do more to persuade dictator Kim Jong Un to stop conducting nuclear and missile tests. Xi’s explanation of the historical relationship made Trump realize that it’s “not so easy” for China to influence North Korea to give up its nuclear program, the newspaper quoted the U.S. president as saying.

Candidates for South Korea’s May 9 presidential election weighed in on the issue, which comes as the nation’s relations with China are already strained over moves to deploy a U.S. missile defense system on its soil.

“This is clearly a distortion of history and an invasion of the Republic of Korea’s sovereignty," conservative Liberty Korea Party candidate Hong Joon-pyo said through a spokesman.

A representative for Democratic Party of Korea candidate Moon Jae-in demanded to find out the full context of Xi’s comment. Ahn Cheol-soo’s People’s Party said that, if true, it would be regrettable for China to distort history in an international diplomacy setting.

Chinese dynasties invaded the Korean Peninsula repeatedly over the centuries and demanded tributes, but South Koreans reject the idea that their ancestors were ever ruled by their neighbor.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
April 20 2017 14:35 GMT
#147254
Foreign leaders have learned that since they need to educate Trump, they can do so in a way favorable to themselves .
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
April 20 2017 14:40 GMT
#147255
On April 20 2017 23:33 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
I'll be surprised if the US isn't globally isolated because of this dipshit in 4 years.

Show nested quote +
South Korea’s government wants to know whether Chinese President Xi Jinping gave alternative facts on the nation’s history to Donald Trump.

In an interview with the Wall Street Journal last week, Trump said Xi told him during a recent summit that “Korea actually used to be a part of China.” The comments sparked outrage in Seoul and became an issue in South Korea’s presidential race, prompting the foreign ministry to seek to verify what Xi actually said.

“It’s a clear fact acknowledged by the international community that, for thousands of years in history, Korea has never been part of China,” foreign ministry spokesman Cho June-hyuck said at a briefing in Seoul on Thursday.

Trump has sought to get China -- North Korea’s main ally and benefactor -- to do more to persuade dictator Kim Jong Un to stop conducting nuclear and missile tests. Xi’s explanation of the historical relationship made Trump realize that it’s “not so easy” for China to influence North Korea to give up its nuclear program, the newspaper quoted the U.S. president as saying.

Candidates for South Korea’s May 9 presidential election weighed in on the issue, which comes as the nation’s relations with China are already strained over moves to deploy a U.S. missile defense system on its soil.

“This is clearly a distortion of history and an invasion of the Republic of Korea’s sovereignty," conservative Liberty Korea Party candidate Hong Joon-pyo said through a spokesman.

A representative for Democratic Party of Korea candidate Moon Jae-in demanded to find out the full context of Xi’s comment. Ahn Cheol-soo’s People’s Party said that, if true, it would be regrettable for China to distort history in an international diplomacy setting.

Chinese dynasties invaded the Korean Peninsula repeatedly over the centuries and demanded tributes, but South Koreans reject the idea that their ancestors were ever ruled by their neighbor.


Source


My favorite part is the fact that Trump didn't even need to say that. The entire comment was void of any value.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18394 Posts
April 20 2017 14:57 GMT
#147256
It's not even really an alternative fact. Whether Korea was a direct part of China under the Yuan dynasty or an independent client state is a historical quibble. But it seems tailor-made to piss the Koreans off to accept the former as truth. This is about at the same level of diplomatic idiocy as calling the Nazi death camps "Polish death camps". In the grand scheme of things, nobody should give a shit what you call it, but your own allies are (irrationally) sensitive about it, so just don't say stupid shit like that.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44203 Posts
April 20 2017 14:58 GMT
#147257
On April 20 2017 17:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2017 15:19 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 20 2017 14:56 a_flayer wrote:
On April 20 2017 10:48 KwarK wrote:
Any woman who can't keep her cool in the proximity of dicks, or man who can't keep his cool in the proximity of boobs, has absolutely no place working on a nuclear submarine.

Or anywhere else...


Not being able to keep it in their pants isn't something that just started happening when women started serving on ships.

A non insignificant number of people in the US and on this forum are likely products of soldiers/sailors not keeping it in their pants.

The big one, is before women on ships, no one could mysteriously get pregnant. But there's plenty of 1/2 American bastards around the ports of the world.

I never worked in the army and I'm a frenchman about to make a very french comment but I never quite understood why it's so terrible if two people have sex on a nuclear submarine, or actually anywhere else.

You ideally want a nuclear submarine to be as low drama as possible. 110% professional, people get up, do their jobs exactly as they're meant to, go back to sleep. No gossip, no interpersonal conflict, basically no Jersey Shore shit. I'm fine with people having sex, just not when they're meant to be working on world ending devices.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44203 Posts
April 20 2017 15:03 GMT
#147258
On April 20 2017 23:57 Acrofales wrote:
It's not even really an alternative fact. Whether Korea was a direct part of China under the Yuan dynasty or an independent client state is a historical quibble. But it seems tailor-made to piss the Koreans off to accept the former as truth. This is about at the same level of diplomatic idiocy as calling the Nazi death camps "Polish death camps". In the grand scheme of things, nobody should give a shit what you call it, but your own allies are (irrationally) sensitive about it, so just don't say stupid shit like that.

Also China's position on places that used to be, at one point, part of Greater China and are now not controlled by China is really established. It wants to take them over and implement ethnic cleansing. That's the state policy. When it can't do that immediately it doesn't mind playing a slow game, as it's doing with Taiwan, but when it can do it then you end up with Tibet. Trump just announced that Korea is a target on China's "ethnic cleanse these people" list and we're in the crazy position of Korea now having to ask China if China actually said that to Trump or if Trump got confused.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
April 20 2017 15:22 GMT
#147259
On April 20 2017 23:33 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
I'll be surprised if the US isn't globally isolated because of this dipshit in 4 years.

Show nested quote +
South Korea’s government wants to know whether Chinese President Xi Jinping gave alternative facts on the nation’s history to Donald Trump.

In an interview with the Wall Street Journal last week, Trump said Xi told him during a recent summit that “Korea actually used to be a part of China.” The comments sparked outrage in Seoul and became an issue in South Korea’s presidential race, prompting the foreign ministry to seek to verify what Xi actually said.

“It’s a clear fact acknowledged by the international community that, for thousands of years in history, Korea has never been part of China,” foreign ministry spokesman Cho June-hyuck said at a briefing in Seoul on Thursday.

Trump has sought to get China -- North Korea’s main ally and benefactor -- to do more to persuade dictator Kim Jong Un to stop conducting nuclear and missile tests. Xi’s explanation of the historical relationship made Trump realize that it’s “not so easy” for China to influence North Korea to give up its nuclear program, the newspaper quoted the U.S. president as saying.

Candidates for South Korea’s May 9 presidential election weighed in on the issue, which comes as the nation’s relations with China are already strained over moves to deploy a U.S. missile defense system on its soil.

“This is clearly a distortion of history and an invasion of the Republic of Korea’s sovereignty," conservative Liberty Korea Party candidate Hong Joon-pyo said through a spokesman.

A representative for Democratic Party of Korea candidate Moon Jae-in demanded to find out the full context of Xi’s comment. Ahn Cheol-soo’s People’s Party said that, if true, it would be regrettable for China to distort history in an international diplomacy setting.

Chinese dynasties invaded the Korean Peninsula repeatedly over the centuries and demanded tributes, but South Koreans reject the idea that their ancestors were ever ruled by their neighbor.


Source

I doubt it. Considering that Trump has gotten China on board with taking more aggressive action against North Korea, he clearly knows what he is doing when it comes to foreign policy and leveraging American might and influence.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18866 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-20 15:25:13
April 20 2017 15:24 GMT
#147260
For those unaware, lawyers signpost their value judgments with words like clearly, well-settled, and obvious. Clearly, if anything were unclear, it would be whether Trump "clearly knows what he is doing."
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
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