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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Russian Federation4447 Posts
On March 04 2017 02:35 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 02:33 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 01:55 Doodsmack wrote:On March 04 2017 01:43 Introvert wrote:On March 04 2017 00:42 Doodsmack wrote:
Well there we see the uncertainty of which role he's playing when meeting with the ambassador. But I guess we could just take the Trump admin's word for it. I'll try one more time. He went to Cleveland for the RNC, as a prominent Trump backer. He even gave a speech. While he was there, he went to a Heritage Foundation event (not FP doves either), where he met multiple ambassadors briefly. But he should have used senate funds, because you would like him to be possibly be guilty of something. Not saying he necessarily should have used Senate funds, the point is that it shows he can potentially mix his roles as Senator and team Trump member. But the real issue is the unusually high number of contacts between team Trump and Russia. And the fact that Sessions himself admits he should have disclosed more. Which contacts between team Trump and Russia are worrisome? Flynn talking to ambassador National Security Advisor? Kushner talking to ambassadors during the transition? He is the unofficial backdoor liason for foreign countries around the world trying to get a message to Trump directly. Sessions talking to an ambassador in his office with other military personel? Whats everyone going crazy over again? We don't know. If we could see Trump's tax returns and have a better understanding of his business and long term relationship to Russia, it would be easier to say.
If you don't know anything about his relationship to Russia, and the entire intelligence committee report ordered by Obama said there was no connection, why do we assume there is a connection?
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
On March 04 2017 02:38 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 02:29 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:23 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 00:49 farvacola wrote:how familiar...... MOSCOW — From Russia’s point of view, the turmoil swirling around the Trump administration and its contacts with Russian officials is a “witch hunt” fueled by “fake news” instigated by leading Democrats looking to distract attention from their election defeat and carried out by their lap dogs in the U.S. media.
In other words, Moscow’s reaction pretty much mirrors that of President Trump after Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from any investigations into alleged Russian interference in the presidential election. Sessions made the move after The Washington Post revealed that he twice met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak last year while still serving as a senator but did not disclose that during his Senate confirmation hearing in January. Sessions was an early backer of Trump’s bid for the presidency and served as an adviser and surrogate for the campaign.
Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said Friday that “all this is very much reminiscent of a witch hunt and the McCarthyism era which we all thought was long gone.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, commenting on reports that Trump’s son-in-law met with Kislyak in December, agreed with Trump’s use of the phrase “witch hunt,” saying “we have nothing to add to President Trump's exhaustive definition.”
But there’s a fundamental difference in what Russia and Trump are reacting to.
In the United States, the suggestion that Sessions was not forthcoming with the Senate hearing was enough to force him to step aside from potential probes, regardless of what he and Kislyak discussed.
But Moscow has never copped to the accusation by the U.S. intelligence community that it interfered in the election, and it sees any and all questions about Trump’s ties to Russia as symptoms of what it considers rampant Russophobia in America’s establishment. Two prominent daily newspapers, Moskovsky Komsomolets and Nezavisimaya Gazeta, featured commentary that cited anti-Russian hysteria in the United States as a primary source of the drive to oust national security adviser Mike Flynn and force Sessions to recuse himself.
In Washington, Trump’s warm words for Russian President Vladimir Putin, his half-joking call for Russia to hack into Hillary Clinton’s emails, and the revelation that Flynn discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with Kislyak before Trump took office have raised concerns that something more sinister is going on. Trump and his administration has resisted accepting the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia was attempting to help him win the election; Sessions in an interview on Fox News Thursday refused to acknowledge that Russia favored Trump over Clinton. Moscow blames anti-Russian hysteria for Sessions’s plight Its complete hysteria. Talking to a Russian in the US politics today is like treason. The crime behind talking to an ambassador from Russia! This is McCarthyism fueled by anger from losing an election to try and find the next witch to hunt and prosecute a crime of talking to a Russian. No one cares if people talk to Russians. It is the ongoing trend of failing to be forthcoming about doing so when asked. Well it matters a little when you consider: 1. Russia hacked the election. 2. They did it to Trumps benefit. 3. There are more Russian ties to individuals in this campaign\administration than any in recent memory (probably ever). 4. This administration has gone out of its way to be friendly to Russia (see Chrimea addition to RNC platform or Trumps lawyer trying to get sanctions removed) 5. Multiple representatives have been coy\lied about their meetings with Russian officials. If you can look at those facts and not conclude that at the very least an investigation is warranted then YOU are the problem people are talking about when they mention hyperpartisanship getting out of control.
There was an investigation.
Obama ordered it and the entire intelligence community scrubbed everything they had and put a 100+ page report together.
They found nothing that connected Trump to Russia.
1 weeks ago, the FBI's 2nd in command McCabe (who was pro Clinton) went to Priebus and told him the entire story is overblown.
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On March 04 2017 02:36 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 02:29 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:23 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 00:49 farvacola wrote:how familiar...... MOSCOW — From Russia’s point of view, the turmoil swirling around the Trump administration and its contacts with Russian officials is a “witch hunt” fueled by “fake news” instigated by leading Democrats looking to distract attention from their election defeat and carried out by their lap dogs in the U.S. media.
In other words, Moscow’s reaction pretty much mirrors that of President Trump after Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from any investigations into alleged Russian interference in the presidential election. Sessions made the move after The Washington Post revealed that he twice met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak last year while still serving as a senator but did not disclose that during his Senate confirmation hearing in January. Sessions was an early backer of Trump’s bid for the presidency and served as an adviser and surrogate for the campaign.
Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said Friday that “all this is very much reminiscent of a witch hunt and the McCarthyism era which we all thought was long gone.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, commenting on reports that Trump’s son-in-law met with Kislyak in December, agreed with Trump’s use of the phrase “witch hunt,” saying “we have nothing to add to President Trump's exhaustive definition.”
But there’s a fundamental difference in what Russia and Trump are reacting to.
In the United States, the suggestion that Sessions was not forthcoming with the Senate hearing was enough to force him to step aside from potential probes, regardless of what he and Kislyak discussed.
But Moscow has never copped to the accusation by the U.S. intelligence community that it interfered in the election, and it sees any and all questions about Trump’s ties to Russia as symptoms of what it considers rampant Russophobia in America’s establishment. Two prominent daily newspapers, Moskovsky Komsomolets and Nezavisimaya Gazeta, featured commentary that cited anti-Russian hysteria in the United States as a primary source of the drive to oust national security adviser Mike Flynn and force Sessions to recuse himself.
In Washington, Trump’s warm words for Russian President Vladimir Putin, his half-joking call for Russia to hack into Hillary Clinton’s emails, and the revelation that Flynn discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with Kislyak before Trump took office have raised concerns that something more sinister is going on. Trump and his administration has resisted accepting the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia was attempting to help him win the election; Sessions in an interview on Fox News Thursday refused to acknowledge that Russia favored Trump over Clinton. Moscow blames anti-Russian hysteria for Sessions’s plight Its complete hysteria. Talking to a Russian in the US politics today is like treason. The crime behind talking to an ambassador from Russia! This is McCarthyism fueled by anger from losing an election to try and find the next witch to hunt and prosecute a crime of talking to a Russian. No one cares if people talk to Russians. It is the ongoing trend of failing to be forthcoming about doing so when asked. Then why did Senator Claire McCaskill lie about how she never met a Russian ambassador in 10 years? Why wasn't she forthcoming? Maybe its because in this political climate, acknowledging that you talk to a Russian turns into a witch hunt and you are called a traitor. Its like Hillary Clinton's emails divided by 100. A big bruhahaha over eventually nothing.
The issue with sessions is mainly about him lying about meeting them under oath. Would've raised eyebrows if he'd admitted it at the time, perhaps some muttering from conspiratorially minded people, but no big deal.
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On March 04 2017 02:36 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 02:29 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:23 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 00:49 farvacola wrote:how familiar...... MOSCOW — From Russia’s point of view, the turmoil swirling around the Trump administration and its contacts with Russian officials is a “witch hunt” fueled by “fake news” instigated by leading Democrats looking to distract attention from their election defeat and carried out by their lap dogs in the U.S. media.
In other words, Moscow’s reaction pretty much mirrors that of President Trump after Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from any investigations into alleged Russian interference in the presidential election. Sessions made the move after The Washington Post revealed that he twice met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak last year while still serving as a senator but did not disclose that during his Senate confirmation hearing in January. Sessions was an early backer of Trump’s bid for the presidency and served as an adviser and surrogate for the campaign.
Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said Friday that “all this is very much reminiscent of a witch hunt and the McCarthyism era which we all thought was long gone.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, commenting on reports that Trump’s son-in-law met with Kislyak in December, agreed with Trump’s use of the phrase “witch hunt,” saying “we have nothing to add to President Trump's exhaustive definition.”
But there’s a fundamental difference in what Russia and Trump are reacting to.
In the United States, the suggestion that Sessions was not forthcoming with the Senate hearing was enough to force him to step aside from potential probes, regardless of what he and Kislyak discussed.
But Moscow has never copped to the accusation by the U.S. intelligence community that it interfered in the election, and it sees any and all questions about Trump’s ties to Russia as symptoms of what it considers rampant Russophobia in America’s establishment. Two prominent daily newspapers, Moskovsky Komsomolets and Nezavisimaya Gazeta, featured commentary that cited anti-Russian hysteria in the United States as a primary source of the drive to oust national security adviser Mike Flynn and force Sessions to recuse himself.
In Washington, Trump’s warm words for Russian President Vladimir Putin, his half-joking call for Russia to hack into Hillary Clinton’s emails, and the revelation that Flynn discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with Kislyak before Trump took office have raised concerns that something more sinister is going on. Trump and his administration has resisted accepting the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia was attempting to help him win the election; Sessions in an interview on Fox News Thursday refused to acknowledge that Russia favored Trump over Clinton. Moscow blames anti-Russian hysteria for Sessions’s plight Its complete hysteria. Talking to a Russian in the US politics today is like treason. The crime behind talking to an ambassador from Russia! This is McCarthyism fueled by anger from losing an election to try and find the next witch to hunt and prosecute a crime of talking to a Russian. No one cares if people talk to Russians. It is the ongoing trend of failing to be forthcoming about doing so when asked. Then why did Senator Claire McCaskill lie about how she never met a Russian ambassador in 10 years? Why wasn't she forthcoming? Maybe its because in this political climate, acknowledging that you talk to a Russian turns into a witch hunt and you are called a traitor. Its like Hillary Clinton's emails divided by 100. A big bruhahaha over eventually nothing.
McCaskill wasn't under oath. And she sort of sucks too, but that is another story.
And yeah, it is a bit of a witch hunt. The Republicans started this practice and were very happy about how it turned out. The only way to stop them from using it again is to subject them to the same thing. Taking the high road on the subject gets Democrats nothing.
And there also could be some fire to go with all this smoke too.
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United States43568 Posts
On March 04 2017 02:33 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 01:55 Doodsmack wrote:On March 04 2017 01:43 Introvert wrote:On March 04 2017 00:42 Doodsmack wrote:
Well there we see the uncertainty of which role he's playing when meeting with the ambassador. But I guess we could just take the Trump admin's word for it. I'll try one more time. He went to Cleveland for the RNC, as a prominent Trump backer. He even gave a speech. While he was there, he went to a Heritage Foundation event (not FP doves either), where he met multiple ambassadors briefly. But he should have used senate funds, because you would like him to be possibly be guilty of something. Not saying he necessarily should have used Senate funds, the point is that it shows he can potentially mix his roles as Senator and team Trump member. But the real issue is the unusually high number of contacts between team Trump and Russia. And the fact that Sessions himself admits he should have disclosed more. Which contacts between team Trump and Russia are worrisome? Flynn talking to ambassador National Security Advisor? Kushner talking to ambassadors during the transition? He is the unofficial backdoor liason for foreign countries around the world trying to get a message to Trump directly. Sessions talking to an ambassador in his office with other military personel? Whats everyone going crazy over again?
So it's established as fact as this point that Russia intervened through selectively releasing hacked material to try and help Trump win.
Now Russia is an independent country with their own goals etc so that's not unreasonable. I mean sure, it fucking sucks for Americans to have their democracy fucked with, but it makes sense that Russia would try and get a candidate in who they think is better for them.
So the only really important question at the bottom of it all is "did the Trump campaign make an agreement to trade favours or did Putin choose to help Trump without a specific agreement but in the hope that favors would happen anyway?" The former case would be a huge scandal because it'd mean that the Trump campaign sold out American interests to foreign powers in exchange for help getting elected. The latter case wouldn't.
So right now it's incredibly important to find out who met with who, what they talked about and when it happened. The stakes couldn't be higher and while it's possible that there is nothing underneath it there is absolutely a need for the investigation into whether Trump sold out his country for a job title. And the whole affair is made much, much harder by the fact that the Trump campaigners insist upon lying about who they met with and what they discussed.
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On March 04 2017 02:38 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 02:35 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:33 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 01:55 Doodsmack wrote:On March 04 2017 01:43 Introvert wrote:On March 04 2017 00:42 Doodsmack wrote:
Well there we see the uncertainty of which role he's playing when meeting with the ambassador. But I guess we could just take the Trump admin's word for it. I'll try one more time. He went to Cleveland for the RNC, as a prominent Trump backer. He even gave a speech. While he was there, he went to a Heritage Foundation event (not FP doves either), where he met multiple ambassadors briefly. But he should have used senate funds, because you would like him to be possibly be guilty of something. Not saying he necessarily should have used Senate funds, the point is that it shows he can potentially mix his roles as Senator and team Trump member. But the real issue is the unusually high number of contacts between team Trump and Russia. And the fact that Sessions himself admits he should have disclosed more. Which contacts between team Trump and Russia are worrisome? Flynn talking to ambassador National Security Advisor? Kushner talking to ambassadors during the transition? He is the unofficial backdoor liason for foreign countries around the world trying to get a message to Trump directly. Sessions talking to an ambassador in his office with other military personel? Whats everyone going crazy over again? We don't know. If we could see Trump's tax returns and have a better understanding of his business and long term relationship to Russia, it would be easier to say. If you don't know anything about his relationship to Russia, and the entire intelligence committee report ordered by Obama said there was no connection, why do we assume there is a connection?
That investigation isn't complete and we do not have all the information. The FBI had not released its findings either. Your claim that we already have proof no connection exists is false.
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On March 04 2017 02:33 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 01:55 Doodsmack wrote:On March 04 2017 01:43 Introvert wrote:On March 04 2017 00:42 Doodsmack wrote:
Well there we see the uncertainty of which role he's playing when meeting with the ambassador. But I guess we could just take the Trump admin's word for it. I'll try one more time. He went to Cleveland for the RNC, as a prominent Trump backer. He even gave a speech. While he was there, he went to a Heritage Foundation event (not FP doves either), where he met multiple ambassadors briefly. But he should have used senate funds, because you would like him to be possibly be guilty of something. Not saying he necessarily should have used Senate funds, the point is that it shows he can potentially mix his roles as Senator and team Trump member. But the real issue is the unusually high number of contacts between team Trump and Russia. And the fact that Sessions himself admits he should have disclosed more. Which contacts between team Trump and Russia are worrisome? Flynn talking to ambassador National Security Advisor? Kushner talking to ambassadors during the transition? He is the unofficial backdoor liason for foreign countries around the world trying to get a message to Trump directly. Sessions talking to an ambassador in his office with other military personel? Whats everyone going crazy over again?
Russia hacks the DNC and spreads the information gained via Wikileaks in an attempt to undermine Hillary.
The only change Trump wants to the Republican party program is to remove wording to provide aid to Ukraine against the Russian invasion
Flynn talks to a Russian ambassador as a citizens (because he has not been sworn in yet) and lies when trying to deny the meeting took place
Sessions has a 1 on 1 conversation with Russia's Ambassador/spy and tries to hide the meeting taking place.
+ several more instances of connections between Trump advisors and the Russian government.
People get worried that there is some manner of favor dealing/blackmailing going on and want an independent investigation.
(some) Republicans jump high and low that all the smoke means nothing and we should really stop looking for a potential fire.
People who wanted the investigation now get more worried that the Republicans(who are normally very against outside influence in the US) are trying to hide something going on.
Republicans yell even louder that we should stop looking for a fire.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
On March 04 2017 02:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 02:36 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 02:29 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:23 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 00:49 farvacola wrote:how familiar...... MOSCOW — From Russia’s point of view, the turmoil swirling around the Trump administration and its contacts with Russian officials is a “witch hunt” fueled by “fake news” instigated by leading Democrats looking to distract attention from their election defeat and carried out by their lap dogs in the U.S. media.
In other words, Moscow’s reaction pretty much mirrors that of President Trump after Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from any investigations into alleged Russian interference in the presidential election. Sessions made the move after The Washington Post revealed that he twice met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak last year while still serving as a senator but did not disclose that during his Senate confirmation hearing in January. Sessions was an early backer of Trump’s bid for the presidency and served as an adviser and surrogate for the campaign.
Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said Friday that “all this is very much reminiscent of a witch hunt and the McCarthyism era which we all thought was long gone.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, commenting on reports that Trump’s son-in-law met with Kislyak in December, agreed with Trump’s use of the phrase “witch hunt,” saying “we have nothing to add to President Trump's exhaustive definition.”
But there’s a fundamental difference in what Russia and Trump are reacting to.
In the United States, the suggestion that Sessions was not forthcoming with the Senate hearing was enough to force him to step aside from potential probes, regardless of what he and Kislyak discussed.
But Moscow has never copped to the accusation by the U.S. intelligence community that it interfered in the election, and it sees any and all questions about Trump’s ties to Russia as symptoms of what it considers rampant Russophobia in America’s establishment. Two prominent daily newspapers, Moskovsky Komsomolets and Nezavisimaya Gazeta, featured commentary that cited anti-Russian hysteria in the United States as a primary source of the drive to oust national security adviser Mike Flynn and force Sessions to recuse himself.
In Washington, Trump’s warm words for Russian President Vladimir Putin, his half-joking call for Russia to hack into Hillary Clinton’s emails, and the revelation that Flynn discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with Kislyak before Trump took office have raised concerns that something more sinister is going on. Trump and his administration has resisted accepting the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia was attempting to help him win the election; Sessions in an interview on Fox News Thursday refused to acknowledge that Russia favored Trump over Clinton. Moscow blames anti-Russian hysteria for Sessions’s plight Its complete hysteria. Talking to a Russian in the US politics today is like treason. The crime behind talking to an ambassador from Russia! This is McCarthyism fueled by anger from losing an election to try and find the next witch to hunt and prosecute a crime of talking to a Russian. No one cares if people talk to Russians. It is the ongoing trend of failing to be forthcoming about doing so when asked. Then why did Senator Claire McCaskill lie about how she never met a Russian ambassador in 10 years? Why wasn't she forthcoming? Maybe its because in this political climate, acknowledging that you talk to a Russian turns into a witch hunt and you are called a traitor. Its like Hillary Clinton's emails divided by 100. A big bruhahaha over eventually nothing. McCaskill wasn't under oath. And she sort of sucks too, but that is another story. And yeah, it is a bit of a witch hunt. The Republicans started this practice and were very happy about how it turned out. The only way to stop them from using it again is to subject them to the same thing. Taking the high road on the subject gets Democrats nothing. And there also could be some fire to go with all this smoke too.
Well if we cared about lies under oath, Sessions should go down with Clinton.
Its the "intent" in law that matters. Did Clinton "intend" to deceive and lie? The FBI determined no there was no intent.
Did Sessions "intend" to mislead or lie? If you look at the context of the question, which was about the campaign, and not as a member of Armed service committee, then you can give him the benefit of the doubt.
I agree with not taking the high road. The Republicans made a huge bruhahaha over Emails and Benghazi which went nowhere and everyone laughed at them for it. But now the same play card is going to work for Democrats?
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On March 04 2017 02:40 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 02:38 On_Slaught wrote:On March 04 2017 02:29 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:23 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 00:49 farvacola wrote:how familiar...... MOSCOW — From Russia’s point of view, the turmoil swirling around the Trump administration and its contacts with Russian officials is a “witch hunt” fueled by “fake news” instigated by leading Democrats looking to distract attention from their election defeat and carried out by their lap dogs in the U.S. media.
In other words, Moscow’s reaction pretty much mirrors that of President Trump after Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from any investigations into alleged Russian interference in the presidential election. Sessions made the move after The Washington Post revealed that he twice met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak last year while still serving as a senator but did not disclose that during his Senate confirmation hearing in January. Sessions was an early backer of Trump’s bid for the presidency and served as an adviser and surrogate for the campaign.
Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said Friday that “all this is very much reminiscent of a witch hunt and the McCarthyism era which we all thought was long gone.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, commenting on reports that Trump’s son-in-law met with Kislyak in December, agreed with Trump’s use of the phrase “witch hunt,” saying “we have nothing to add to President Trump's exhaustive definition.”
But there’s a fundamental difference in what Russia and Trump are reacting to.
In the United States, the suggestion that Sessions was not forthcoming with the Senate hearing was enough to force him to step aside from potential probes, regardless of what he and Kislyak discussed.
But Moscow has never copped to the accusation by the U.S. intelligence community that it interfered in the election, and it sees any and all questions about Trump’s ties to Russia as symptoms of what it considers rampant Russophobia in America’s establishment. Two prominent daily newspapers, Moskovsky Komsomolets and Nezavisimaya Gazeta, featured commentary that cited anti-Russian hysteria in the United States as a primary source of the drive to oust national security adviser Mike Flynn and force Sessions to recuse himself.
In Washington, Trump’s warm words for Russian President Vladimir Putin, his half-joking call for Russia to hack into Hillary Clinton’s emails, and the revelation that Flynn discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with Kislyak before Trump took office have raised concerns that something more sinister is going on. Trump and his administration has resisted accepting the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia was attempting to help him win the election; Sessions in an interview on Fox News Thursday refused to acknowledge that Russia favored Trump over Clinton. Moscow blames anti-Russian hysteria for Sessions’s plight Its complete hysteria. Talking to a Russian in the US politics today is like treason. The crime behind talking to an ambassador from Russia! This is McCarthyism fueled by anger from losing an election to try and find the next witch to hunt and prosecute a crime of talking to a Russian. No one cares if people talk to Russians. It is the ongoing trend of failing to be forthcoming about doing so when asked. Well it matters a little when you consider: 1. Russia hacked the election. 2. They did it to Trumps benefit. 3. There are more Russian ties to individuals in this campaign\administration than any in recent memory (probably ever). 4. This administration has gone out of its way to be friendly to Russia (see Chrimea addition to RNC platform or Trumps lawyer trying to get sanctions removed) 5. Multiple representatives have been coy\lied about their meetings with Russian officials. If you can look at those facts and not conclude that at the very least an investigation is warranted then YOU are the problem people are talking about when they mention hyperpartisanship getting out of control. ...the entire intelligence community scrubbed everything they had and put a 100+ page report together. They found nothing that connected Trump to Russia. 1 weeks ago, the FBI's 2nd in command McCabe (who was pro Clinton) went to Priebus and told him the entire story is overblown.
Sources please.
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On March 04 2017 02:40 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 02:38 On_Slaught wrote:On March 04 2017 02:29 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:23 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 00:49 farvacola wrote:how familiar...... MOSCOW — From Russia’s point of view, the turmoil swirling around the Trump administration and its contacts with Russian officials is a “witch hunt” fueled by “fake news” instigated by leading Democrats looking to distract attention from their election defeat and carried out by their lap dogs in the U.S. media.
In other words, Moscow’s reaction pretty much mirrors that of President Trump after Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from any investigations into alleged Russian interference in the presidential election. Sessions made the move after The Washington Post revealed that he twice met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak last year while still serving as a senator but did not disclose that during his Senate confirmation hearing in January. Sessions was an early backer of Trump’s bid for the presidency and served as an adviser and surrogate for the campaign.
Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said Friday that “all this is very much reminiscent of a witch hunt and the McCarthyism era which we all thought was long gone.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, commenting on reports that Trump’s son-in-law met with Kislyak in December, agreed with Trump’s use of the phrase “witch hunt,” saying “we have nothing to add to President Trump's exhaustive definition.”
But there’s a fundamental difference in what Russia and Trump are reacting to.
In the United States, the suggestion that Sessions was not forthcoming with the Senate hearing was enough to force him to step aside from potential probes, regardless of what he and Kislyak discussed.
But Moscow has never copped to the accusation by the U.S. intelligence community that it interfered in the election, and it sees any and all questions about Trump’s ties to Russia as symptoms of what it considers rampant Russophobia in America’s establishment. Two prominent daily newspapers, Moskovsky Komsomolets and Nezavisimaya Gazeta, featured commentary that cited anti-Russian hysteria in the United States as a primary source of the drive to oust national security adviser Mike Flynn and force Sessions to recuse himself.
In Washington, Trump’s warm words for Russian President Vladimir Putin, his half-joking call for Russia to hack into Hillary Clinton’s emails, and the revelation that Flynn discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with Kislyak before Trump took office have raised concerns that something more sinister is going on. Trump and his administration has resisted accepting the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia was attempting to help him win the election; Sessions in an interview on Fox News Thursday refused to acknowledge that Russia favored Trump over Clinton. Moscow blames anti-Russian hysteria for Sessions’s plight Its complete hysteria. Talking to a Russian in the US politics today is like treason. The crime behind talking to an ambassador from Russia! This is McCarthyism fueled by anger from losing an election to try and find the next witch to hunt and prosecute a crime of talking to a Russian. No one cares if people talk to Russians. It is the ongoing trend of failing to be forthcoming about doing so when asked. Well it matters a little when you consider: 1. Russia hacked the election. 2. They did it to Trumps benefit. 3. There are more Russian ties to individuals in this campaign\administration than any in recent memory (probably ever). 4. This administration has gone out of its way to be friendly to Russia (see Chrimea addition to RNC platform or Trumps lawyer trying to get sanctions removed) 5. Multiple representatives have been coy\lied about their meetings with Russian officials. If you can look at those facts and not conclude that at the very least an investigation is warranted then YOU are the problem people are talking about when they mention hyperpartisanship getting out of control. There was an investigation. Obama ordered it and the entire intelligence community scrubbed everything they had and put a 100+ page report together. They found nothing that connected Trump to Russia. 1 weeks ago, the FBI's 2nd in command McCabe (who was pro Clinton) went to Priebus and told him the entire story is overblown.
There is not a concluded investigation.
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I wonder how much the FBI knows about Trump's tax returns\business records. I assume they'd need a warrant. We know if they know?
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On March 04 2017 02:46 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 02:41 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:36 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 02:29 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:23 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 00:49 farvacola wrote:how familiar...... MOSCOW — From Russia’s point of view, the turmoil swirling around the Trump administration and its contacts with Russian officials is a “witch hunt” fueled by “fake news” instigated by leading Democrats looking to distract attention from their election defeat and carried out by their lap dogs in the U.S. media.
In other words, Moscow’s reaction pretty much mirrors that of President Trump after Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from any investigations into alleged Russian interference in the presidential election. Sessions made the move after The Washington Post revealed that he twice met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak last year while still serving as a senator but did not disclose that during his Senate confirmation hearing in January. Sessions was an early backer of Trump’s bid for the presidency and served as an adviser and surrogate for the campaign.
Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said Friday that “all this is very much reminiscent of a witch hunt and the McCarthyism era which we all thought was long gone.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, commenting on reports that Trump’s son-in-law met with Kislyak in December, agreed with Trump’s use of the phrase “witch hunt,” saying “we have nothing to add to President Trump's exhaustive definition.”
But there’s a fundamental difference in what Russia and Trump are reacting to.
In the United States, the suggestion that Sessions was not forthcoming with the Senate hearing was enough to force him to step aside from potential probes, regardless of what he and Kislyak discussed.
But Moscow has never copped to the accusation by the U.S. intelligence community that it interfered in the election, and it sees any and all questions about Trump’s ties to Russia as symptoms of what it considers rampant Russophobia in America’s establishment. Two prominent daily newspapers, Moskovsky Komsomolets and Nezavisimaya Gazeta, featured commentary that cited anti-Russian hysteria in the United States as a primary source of the drive to oust national security adviser Mike Flynn and force Sessions to recuse himself.
In Washington, Trump’s warm words for Russian President Vladimir Putin, his half-joking call for Russia to hack into Hillary Clinton’s emails, and the revelation that Flynn discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with Kislyak before Trump took office have raised concerns that something more sinister is going on. Trump and his administration has resisted accepting the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia was attempting to help him win the election; Sessions in an interview on Fox News Thursday refused to acknowledge that Russia favored Trump over Clinton. Moscow blames anti-Russian hysteria for Sessions’s plight Its complete hysteria. Talking to a Russian in the US politics today is like treason. The crime behind talking to an ambassador from Russia! This is McCarthyism fueled by anger from losing an election to try and find the next witch to hunt and prosecute a crime of talking to a Russian. No one cares if people talk to Russians. It is the ongoing trend of failing to be forthcoming about doing so when asked. Then why did Senator Claire McCaskill lie about how she never met a Russian ambassador in 10 years? Why wasn't she forthcoming? Maybe its because in this political climate, acknowledging that you talk to a Russian turns into a witch hunt and you are called a traitor. Its like Hillary Clinton's emails divided by 100. A big bruhahaha over eventually nothing. McCaskill wasn't under oath. And she sort of sucks too, but that is another story. And yeah, it is a bit of a witch hunt. The Republicans started this practice and were very happy about how it turned out. The only way to stop them from using it again is to subject them to the same thing. Taking the high road on the subject gets Democrats nothing. And there also could be some fire to go with all this smoke too. Well if we cared about lies under oath, Sessions should go down with Clinton. Its the "intent" in law that matters. Did Clinton "intend" to deceive and lie? The FBI determined no there was no intent. Did Sessions "intend" to mislead or lie? If you look at the context of the question, which was about the campaign, and not as a member of Armed service committee, then you can give him the benefit of the doubt. I agree with not taking the high road. The Republicans made a huge bruhahaha over Emails and Benghazi which went nowhere and everyone laughed at them for it. But now the same play card is going to work for Democrats?
Clinton in jail in exchange for sessions in jail? I'd take that trade in a heartbeat.
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On March 04 2017 02:46 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 02:41 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:36 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 02:29 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:23 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 00:49 farvacola wrote:how familiar...... MOSCOW — From Russia’s point of view, the turmoil swirling around the Trump administration and its contacts with Russian officials is a “witch hunt” fueled by “fake news” instigated by leading Democrats looking to distract attention from their election defeat and carried out by their lap dogs in the U.S. media.
In other words, Moscow’s reaction pretty much mirrors that of President Trump after Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from any investigations into alleged Russian interference in the presidential election. Sessions made the move after The Washington Post revealed that he twice met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak last year while still serving as a senator but did not disclose that during his Senate confirmation hearing in January. Sessions was an early backer of Trump’s bid for the presidency and served as an adviser and surrogate for the campaign.
Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said Friday that “all this is very much reminiscent of a witch hunt and the McCarthyism era which we all thought was long gone.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, commenting on reports that Trump’s son-in-law met with Kislyak in December, agreed with Trump’s use of the phrase “witch hunt,” saying “we have nothing to add to President Trump's exhaustive definition.”
But there’s a fundamental difference in what Russia and Trump are reacting to.
In the United States, the suggestion that Sessions was not forthcoming with the Senate hearing was enough to force him to step aside from potential probes, regardless of what he and Kislyak discussed.
But Moscow has never copped to the accusation by the U.S. intelligence community that it interfered in the election, and it sees any and all questions about Trump’s ties to Russia as symptoms of what it considers rampant Russophobia in America’s establishment. Two prominent daily newspapers, Moskovsky Komsomolets and Nezavisimaya Gazeta, featured commentary that cited anti-Russian hysteria in the United States as a primary source of the drive to oust national security adviser Mike Flynn and force Sessions to recuse himself.
In Washington, Trump’s warm words for Russian President Vladimir Putin, his half-joking call for Russia to hack into Hillary Clinton’s emails, and the revelation that Flynn discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with Kislyak before Trump took office have raised concerns that something more sinister is going on. Trump and his administration has resisted accepting the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia was attempting to help him win the election; Sessions in an interview on Fox News Thursday refused to acknowledge that Russia favored Trump over Clinton. Moscow blames anti-Russian hysteria for Sessions’s plight Its complete hysteria. Talking to a Russian in the US politics today is like treason. The crime behind talking to an ambassador from Russia! This is McCarthyism fueled by anger from losing an election to try and find the next witch to hunt and prosecute a crime of talking to a Russian. No one cares if people talk to Russians. It is the ongoing trend of failing to be forthcoming about doing so when asked. Then why did Senator Claire McCaskill lie about how she never met a Russian ambassador in 10 years? Why wasn't she forthcoming? Maybe its because in this political climate, acknowledging that you talk to a Russian turns into a witch hunt and you are called a traitor. Its like Hillary Clinton's emails divided by 100. A big bruhahaha over eventually nothing. McCaskill wasn't under oath. And she sort of sucks too, but that is another story. And yeah, it is a bit of a witch hunt. The Republicans started this practice and were very happy about how it turned out. The only way to stop them from using it again is to subject them to the same thing. Taking the high road on the subject gets Democrats nothing. And there also could be some fire to go with all this smoke too. Well if we cared about lies under oath, Sessions should go down with Clinton. Its the "intent" in law that matters. Did Clinton "intend" to deceive and lie? The FBI determined no there was no intent. Did Sessions "intend" to mislead or lie? If you look at the context of the question, which was about the campaign, and not as a member of Armed service committee, then you can give him the benefit of the doubt. I agree with not taking the high road. The Republicans made a huge bruhahaha over Emails and Benghazi which went nowhere and everyone laughed at them for it. But now the same play card is going to work for Democrats?
Those 'cards' are why Trump is president.
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On March 04 2017 02:46 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 02:41 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:36 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 02:29 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:23 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 00:49 farvacola wrote:how familiar...... MOSCOW — From Russia’s point of view, the turmoil swirling around the Trump administration and its contacts with Russian officials is a “witch hunt” fueled by “fake news” instigated by leading Democrats looking to distract attention from their election defeat and carried out by their lap dogs in the U.S. media.
In other words, Moscow’s reaction pretty much mirrors that of President Trump after Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from any investigations into alleged Russian interference in the presidential election. Sessions made the move after The Washington Post revealed that he twice met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak last year while still serving as a senator but did not disclose that during his Senate confirmation hearing in January. Sessions was an early backer of Trump’s bid for the presidency and served as an adviser and surrogate for the campaign.
Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said Friday that “all this is very much reminiscent of a witch hunt and the McCarthyism era which we all thought was long gone.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, commenting on reports that Trump’s son-in-law met with Kislyak in December, agreed with Trump’s use of the phrase “witch hunt,” saying “we have nothing to add to President Trump's exhaustive definition.”
But there’s a fundamental difference in what Russia and Trump are reacting to.
In the United States, the suggestion that Sessions was not forthcoming with the Senate hearing was enough to force him to step aside from potential probes, regardless of what he and Kislyak discussed.
But Moscow has never copped to the accusation by the U.S. intelligence community that it interfered in the election, and it sees any and all questions about Trump’s ties to Russia as symptoms of what it considers rampant Russophobia in America’s establishment. Two prominent daily newspapers, Moskovsky Komsomolets and Nezavisimaya Gazeta, featured commentary that cited anti-Russian hysteria in the United States as a primary source of the drive to oust national security adviser Mike Flynn and force Sessions to recuse himself.
In Washington, Trump’s warm words for Russian President Vladimir Putin, his half-joking call for Russia to hack into Hillary Clinton’s emails, and the revelation that Flynn discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with Kislyak before Trump took office have raised concerns that something more sinister is going on. Trump and his administration has resisted accepting the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia was attempting to help him win the election; Sessions in an interview on Fox News Thursday refused to acknowledge that Russia favored Trump over Clinton. Moscow blames anti-Russian hysteria for Sessions’s plight Its complete hysteria. Talking to a Russian in the US politics today is like treason. The crime behind talking to an ambassador from Russia! This is McCarthyism fueled by anger from losing an election to try and find the next witch to hunt and prosecute a crime of talking to a Russian. No one cares if people talk to Russians. It is the ongoing trend of failing to be forthcoming about doing so when asked. Then why did Senator Claire McCaskill lie about how she never met a Russian ambassador in 10 years? Why wasn't she forthcoming? Maybe its because in this political climate, acknowledging that you talk to a Russian turns into a witch hunt and you are called a traitor. Its like Hillary Clinton's emails divided by 100. A big bruhahaha over eventually nothing. McCaskill wasn't under oath. And she sort of sucks too, but that is another story. And yeah, it is a bit of a witch hunt. The Republicans started this practice and were very happy about how it turned out. The only way to stop them from using it again is to subject them to the same thing. Taking the high road on the subject gets Democrats nothing. And there also could be some fire to go with all this smoke too. Well if we cared about lies under oath, Sessions should go down with Clinton. Its the "intent" in law that matters. Did Clinton "intend" to deceive and lie? The FBI determined no there was no intent. Did Sessions "intend" to mislead or lie? If you look at the context of the question, which was about the campaign, and not as a member of Armed service committee, then you can give him the benefit of the doubt. I agree with not taking the high road. The Republicans made a huge bruhahaha over Emails and Benghazi which went nowhere and everyone laughed at them for it. But now the same play card is going to work for Democrats?
None of that matters. What matters is that the Trump administration is being held to the same standard that Clinton was. Intent doesn't matter, only that they did something wrong(not matter how mild) and can be raked over the coals for it.
No one wants politics to be like this, but one party tried to "take the high road" for a very long time, with terrible results. So now we just fight.
Trump could solve all these problems by releasing his tax returns and demanding an independent investigator be appointed to look into the Russia issue.
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On March 04 2017 02:46 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 02:41 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:36 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 02:29 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:23 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 00:49 farvacola wrote:how familiar...... MOSCOW — From Russia’s point of view, the turmoil swirling around the Trump administration and its contacts with Russian officials is a “witch hunt” fueled by “fake news” instigated by leading Democrats looking to distract attention from their election defeat and carried out by their lap dogs in the U.S. media.
In other words, Moscow’s reaction pretty much mirrors that of President Trump after Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from any investigations into alleged Russian interference in the presidential election. Sessions made the move after The Washington Post revealed that he twice met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak last year while still serving as a senator but did not disclose that during his Senate confirmation hearing in January. Sessions was an early backer of Trump’s bid for the presidency and served as an adviser and surrogate for the campaign.
Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said Friday that “all this is very much reminiscent of a witch hunt and the McCarthyism era which we all thought was long gone.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, commenting on reports that Trump’s son-in-law met with Kislyak in December, agreed with Trump’s use of the phrase “witch hunt,” saying “we have nothing to add to President Trump's exhaustive definition.”
But there’s a fundamental difference in what Russia and Trump are reacting to.
In the United States, the suggestion that Sessions was not forthcoming with the Senate hearing was enough to force him to step aside from potential probes, regardless of what he and Kislyak discussed.
But Moscow has never copped to the accusation by the U.S. intelligence community that it interfered in the election, and it sees any and all questions about Trump’s ties to Russia as symptoms of what it considers rampant Russophobia in America’s establishment. Two prominent daily newspapers, Moskovsky Komsomolets and Nezavisimaya Gazeta, featured commentary that cited anti-Russian hysteria in the United States as a primary source of the drive to oust national security adviser Mike Flynn and force Sessions to recuse himself.
In Washington, Trump’s warm words for Russian President Vladimir Putin, his half-joking call for Russia to hack into Hillary Clinton’s emails, and the revelation that Flynn discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with Kislyak before Trump took office have raised concerns that something more sinister is going on. Trump and his administration has resisted accepting the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia was attempting to help him win the election; Sessions in an interview on Fox News Thursday refused to acknowledge that Russia favored Trump over Clinton. Moscow blames anti-Russian hysteria for Sessions’s plight Its complete hysteria. Talking to a Russian in the US politics today is like treason. The crime behind talking to an ambassador from Russia! This is McCarthyism fueled by anger from losing an election to try and find the next witch to hunt and prosecute a crime of talking to a Russian. No one cares if people talk to Russians. It is the ongoing trend of failing to be forthcoming about doing so when asked. Then why did Senator Claire McCaskill lie about how she never met a Russian ambassador in 10 years? Why wasn't she forthcoming? Maybe its because in this political climate, acknowledging that you talk to a Russian turns into a witch hunt and you are called a traitor. Its like Hillary Clinton's emails divided by 100. A big bruhahaha over eventually nothing. McCaskill wasn't under oath. And she sort of sucks too, but that is another story. And yeah, it is a bit of a witch hunt. The Republicans started this practice and were very happy about how it turned out. The only way to stop them from using it again is to subject them to the same thing. Taking the high road on the subject gets Democrats nothing. And there also could be some fire to go with all this smoke too. Well if we cared about lies under oath, Sessions should go down with Clinton. Its the "intent" in law that matters. Did Clinton "intend" to deceive and lie? The FBI determined no there was no intent. Did Sessions "intend" to mislead or lie? If you look at the context of the question, which was about the campaign, and not as a member of Armed service committee, then you can give him the benefit of the doubt. I agree with not taking the high road. The Republicans made a huge bruhahaha over Emails and Benghazi which went nowhere and everyone laughed at them for it. But now the same play card is going to work for Democrats?
The Republicans got laughed at for having 6 Benghazi hearing (and laughed is a big word when it probably won them to House, Senate and Presidency). An investigation when a US ambassador is killed in an attack on an embassy is entirely normal.
Same deal here. If an independent investigation finds nothing then fine, there is nothing. If the Democrats want to have 6 I will yell at them the same as the Republicans.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
On March 04 2017 02:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 02:46 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 02:41 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:36 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 02:29 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:23 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 00:49 farvacola wrote:how familiar...... MOSCOW — From Russia’s point of view, the turmoil swirling around the Trump administration and its contacts with Russian officials is a “witch hunt” fueled by “fake news” instigated by leading Democrats looking to distract attention from their election defeat and carried out by their lap dogs in the U.S. media.
In other words, Moscow’s reaction pretty much mirrors that of President Trump after Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from any investigations into alleged Russian interference in the presidential election. Sessions made the move after The Washington Post revealed that he twice met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak last year while still serving as a senator but did not disclose that during his Senate confirmation hearing in January. Sessions was an early backer of Trump’s bid for the presidency and served as an adviser and surrogate for the campaign.
Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said Friday that “all this is very much reminiscent of a witch hunt and the McCarthyism era which we all thought was long gone.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, commenting on reports that Trump’s son-in-law met with Kislyak in December, agreed with Trump’s use of the phrase “witch hunt,” saying “we have nothing to add to President Trump's exhaustive definition.”
But there’s a fundamental difference in what Russia and Trump are reacting to.
In the United States, the suggestion that Sessions was not forthcoming with the Senate hearing was enough to force him to step aside from potential probes, regardless of what he and Kislyak discussed.
But Moscow has never copped to the accusation by the U.S. intelligence community that it interfered in the election, and it sees any and all questions about Trump’s ties to Russia as symptoms of what it considers rampant Russophobia in America’s establishment. Two prominent daily newspapers, Moskovsky Komsomolets and Nezavisimaya Gazeta, featured commentary that cited anti-Russian hysteria in the United States as a primary source of the drive to oust national security adviser Mike Flynn and force Sessions to recuse himself.
In Washington, Trump’s warm words for Russian President Vladimir Putin, his half-joking call for Russia to hack into Hillary Clinton’s emails, and the revelation that Flynn discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with Kislyak before Trump took office have raised concerns that something more sinister is going on. Trump and his administration has resisted accepting the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia was attempting to help him win the election; Sessions in an interview on Fox News Thursday refused to acknowledge that Russia favored Trump over Clinton. Moscow blames anti-Russian hysteria for Sessions’s plight Its complete hysteria. Talking to a Russian in the US politics today is like treason. The crime behind talking to an ambassador from Russia! This is McCarthyism fueled by anger from losing an election to try and find the next witch to hunt and prosecute a crime of talking to a Russian. No one cares if people talk to Russians. It is the ongoing trend of failing to be forthcoming about doing so when asked. Then why did Senator Claire McCaskill lie about how she never met a Russian ambassador in 10 years? Why wasn't she forthcoming? Maybe its because in this political climate, acknowledging that you talk to a Russian turns into a witch hunt and you are called a traitor. Its like Hillary Clinton's emails divided by 100. A big bruhahaha over eventually nothing. McCaskill wasn't under oath. And she sort of sucks too, but that is another story. And yeah, it is a bit of a witch hunt. The Republicans started this practice and were very happy about how it turned out. The only way to stop them from using it again is to subject them to the same thing. Taking the high road on the subject gets Democrats nothing. And there also could be some fire to go with all this smoke too. Well if we cared about lies under oath, Sessions should go down with Clinton. Its the "intent" in law that matters. Did Clinton "intend" to deceive and lie? The FBI determined no there was no intent. Did Sessions "intend" to mislead or lie? If you look at the context of the question, which was about the campaign, and not as a member of Armed service committee, then you can give him the benefit of the doubt. I agree with not taking the high road. The Republicans made a huge bruhahaha over Emails and Benghazi which went nowhere and everyone laughed at them for it. But now the same play card is going to work for Democrats? None of that matters. What matters is that the Trump administration is being held to the same standard that Clinton was. Intent doesn't matter, only that they did something wrong(not matter how mild) and can be raked over the coals for it. No one wants politics to be like this, but one party tried to "take the high road" for a very long time, with terrible results. So now we just fight. Trump could solve all these problems by releasing his tax returns and demanding an independent investigator be appointed to look into the Russia issue.
I don't disagree with anything you said here.
As long as everyone knows this Russian thing is just a bruhaha.
If Trump did order Putin to hack the DNC, thats impeachable. But thats a huuuuuuge reach. Like it was a reach that Clinton used her email server to secretly send classified info intentionally around the world nefariously.
This focus on Russia basically takes American politics from both sides of the aisle right into the gutter trash. So be it I guess, I don't think Democrats will come out of the other side victorious in gutter trash politics. Trump mastered gutter trash politics.
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On March 04 2017 02:57 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 02:50 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:46 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 02:41 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:36 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 02:29 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:23 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 00:49 farvacola wrote:how familiar...... MOSCOW — From Russia’s point of view, the turmoil swirling around the Trump administration and its contacts with Russian officials is a “witch hunt” fueled by “fake news” instigated by leading Democrats looking to distract attention from their election defeat and carried out by their lap dogs in the U.S. media.
In other words, Moscow’s reaction pretty much mirrors that of President Trump after Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from any investigations into alleged Russian interference in the presidential election. Sessions made the move after The Washington Post revealed that he twice met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak last year while still serving as a senator but did not disclose that during his Senate confirmation hearing in January. Sessions was an early backer of Trump’s bid for the presidency and served as an adviser and surrogate for the campaign.
Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said Friday that “all this is very much reminiscent of a witch hunt and the McCarthyism era which we all thought was long gone.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, commenting on reports that Trump’s son-in-law met with Kislyak in December, agreed with Trump’s use of the phrase “witch hunt,” saying “we have nothing to add to President Trump's exhaustive definition.”
But there’s a fundamental difference in what Russia and Trump are reacting to.
In the United States, the suggestion that Sessions was not forthcoming with the Senate hearing was enough to force him to step aside from potential probes, regardless of what he and Kislyak discussed.
But Moscow has never copped to the accusation by the U.S. intelligence community that it interfered in the election, and it sees any and all questions about Trump’s ties to Russia as symptoms of what it considers rampant Russophobia in America’s establishment. Two prominent daily newspapers, Moskovsky Komsomolets and Nezavisimaya Gazeta, featured commentary that cited anti-Russian hysteria in the United States as a primary source of the drive to oust national security adviser Mike Flynn and force Sessions to recuse himself.
In Washington, Trump’s warm words for Russian President Vladimir Putin, his half-joking call for Russia to hack into Hillary Clinton’s emails, and the revelation that Flynn discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with Kislyak before Trump took office have raised concerns that something more sinister is going on. Trump and his administration has resisted accepting the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia was attempting to help him win the election; Sessions in an interview on Fox News Thursday refused to acknowledge that Russia favored Trump over Clinton. Moscow blames anti-Russian hysteria for Sessions’s plight Its complete hysteria. Talking to a Russian in the US politics today is like treason. The crime behind talking to an ambassador from Russia! This is McCarthyism fueled by anger from losing an election to try and find the next witch to hunt and prosecute a crime of talking to a Russian. No one cares if people talk to Russians. It is the ongoing trend of failing to be forthcoming about doing so when asked. Then why did Senator Claire McCaskill lie about how she never met a Russian ambassador in 10 years? Why wasn't she forthcoming? Maybe its because in this political climate, acknowledging that you talk to a Russian turns into a witch hunt and you are called a traitor. Its like Hillary Clinton's emails divided by 100. A big bruhahaha over eventually nothing. McCaskill wasn't under oath. And she sort of sucks too, but that is another story. And yeah, it is a bit of a witch hunt. The Republicans started this practice and were very happy about how it turned out. The only way to stop them from using it again is to subject them to the same thing. Taking the high road on the subject gets Democrats nothing. And there also could be some fire to go with all this smoke too. Well if we cared about lies under oath, Sessions should go down with Clinton. Its the "intent" in law that matters. Did Clinton "intend" to deceive and lie? The FBI determined no there was no intent. Did Sessions "intend" to mislead or lie? If you look at the context of the question, which was about the campaign, and not as a member of Armed service committee, then you can give him the benefit of the doubt. I agree with not taking the high road. The Republicans made a huge bruhahaha over Emails and Benghazi which went nowhere and everyone laughed at them for it. But now the same play card is going to work for Democrats? None of that matters. What matters is that the Trump administration is being held to the same standard that Clinton was. Intent doesn't matter, only that they did something wrong(not matter how mild) and can be raked over the coals for it. No one wants politics to be like this, but one party tried to "take the high road" for a very long time, with terrible results. So now we just fight. Trump could solve all these problems by releasing his tax returns and demanding an independent investigator be appointed to look into the Russia issue. I don't disagree with anything you said here. As long as everyone knows this Russian thing is just a bruhaha. If Trump did order Putin to hack the DNC, thats impeachable. But thats a huuuuuuge reach. Like it was a reach that Clinton used her email server to secretly send classified info intentionally around the world nefariously.
And what if one of Trumps advisors (possible on orders from Trump) made a deal with Russia to lift the sanctions and not interfere in Ukraine in exchange for the information released through wikileaks?
Or that Putin has compromising information and is blackmailing Trump?
Both possibilities are atleast plausible.
No one here thinks that Trump ordered Putin to hack the DNC. But that does not mean that the signals coming forward do not point to a possible agreement having been made.
That's why people want an investigation.
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On March 04 2017 02:57 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 02:50 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:46 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 02:41 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:36 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 02:29 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:23 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 00:49 farvacola wrote:how familiar...... MOSCOW — From Russia’s point of view, the turmoil swirling around the Trump administration and its contacts with Russian officials is a “witch hunt” fueled by “fake news” instigated by leading Democrats looking to distract attention from their election defeat and carried out by their lap dogs in the U.S. media.
In other words, Moscow’s reaction pretty much mirrors that of President Trump after Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from any investigations into alleged Russian interference in the presidential election. Sessions made the move after The Washington Post revealed that he twice met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak last year while still serving as a senator but did not disclose that during his Senate confirmation hearing in January. Sessions was an early backer of Trump’s bid for the presidency and served as an adviser and surrogate for the campaign.
Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said Friday that “all this is very much reminiscent of a witch hunt and the McCarthyism era which we all thought was long gone.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, commenting on reports that Trump’s son-in-law met with Kislyak in December, agreed with Trump’s use of the phrase “witch hunt,” saying “we have nothing to add to President Trump's exhaustive definition.”
But there’s a fundamental difference in what Russia and Trump are reacting to.
In the United States, the suggestion that Sessions was not forthcoming with the Senate hearing was enough to force him to step aside from potential probes, regardless of what he and Kislyak discussed.
But Moscow has never copped to the accusation by the U.S. intelligence community that it interfered in the election, and it sees any and all questions about Trump’s ties to Russia as symptoms of what it considers rampant Russophobia in America’s establishment. Two prominent daily newspapers, Moskovsky Komsomolets and Nezavisimaya Gazeta, featured commentary that cited anti-Russian hysteria in the United States as a primary source of the drive to oust national security adviser Mike Flynn and force Sessions to recuse himself.
In Washington, Trump’s warm words for Russian President Vladimir Putin, his half-joking call for Russia to hack into Hillary Clinton’s emails, and the revelation that Flynn discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with Kislyak before Trump took office have raised concerns that something more sinister is going on. Trump and his administration has resisted accepting the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia was attempting to help him win the election; Sessions in an interview on Fox News Thursday refused to acknowledge that Russia favored Trump over Clinton. Moscow blames anti-Russian hysteria for Sessions’s plight Its complete hysteria. Talking to a Russian in the US politics today is like treason. The crime behind talking to an ambassador from Russia! This is McCarthyism fueled by anger from losing an election to try and find the next witch to hunt and prosecute a crime of talking to a Russian. No one cares if people talk to Russians. It is the ongoing trend of failing to be forthcoming about doing so when asked. Then why did Senator Claire McCaskill lie about how she never met a Russian ambassador in 10 years? Why wasn't she forthcoming? Maybe its because in this political climate, acknowledging that you talk to a Russian turns into a witch hunt and you are called a traitor. Its like Hillary Clinton's emails divided by 100. A big bruhahaha over eventually nothing. McCaskill wasn't under oath. And she sort of sucks too, but that is another story. And yeah, it is a bit of a witch hunt. The Republicans started this practice and were very happy about how it turned out. The only way to stop them from using it again is to subject them to the same thing. Taking the high road on the subject gets Democrats nothing. And there also could be some fire to go with all this smoke too. Well if we cared about lies under oath, Sessions should go down with Clinton. Its the "intent" in law that matters. Did Clinton "intend" to deceive and lie? The FBI determined no there was no intent. Did Sessions "intend" to mislead or lie? If you look at the context of the question, which was about the campaign, and not as a member of Armed service committee, then you can give him the benefit of the doubt. I agree with not taking the high road. The Republicans made a huge bruhahaha over Emails and Benghazi which went nowhere and everyone laughed at them for it. But now the same play card is going to work for Democrats? None of that matters. What matters is that the Trump administration is being held to the same standard that Clinton was. Intent doesn't matter, only that they did something wrong(not matter how mild) and can be raked over the coals for it. No one wants politics to be like this, but one party tried to "take the high road" for a very long time, with terrible results. So now we just fight. Trump could solve all these problems by releasing his tax returns and demanding an independent investigator be appointed to look into the Russia issue. I don't disagree with anything you said here. As long as everyone knows this Russian thing is just a bruhaha. If Trump did order Putin to hack the DNC, thats impeachable. But thats a huuuuuuge reach. Like it was a reach that Clinton used her email server to secretly send classified info intentionally around the world nefariously. This focus on Russia basically takes American politics from both sides of the aisle right into the gutter trash. So be it I guess, I don't think Democrats will come out of the other side victorious in gutter trash politics. Trump mastered gutter trash politics.
You are not wrong, but we have no choice now. Civility and leading by example left the building 16 years ago. Maybe earlier. It just taken one side longer to realize it. Congress was not designed to be a weapon against an opposing parties president. It erodes the system if used that way.
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On March 04 2017 02:57 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2017 02:50 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:46 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 02:41 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:36 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 02:29 Plansix wrote:On March 04 2017 02:23 Tien wrote:On March 04 2017 00:49 farvacola wrote:how familiar...... MOSCOW — From Russia’s point of view, the turmoil swirling around the Trump administration and its contacts with Russian officials is a “witch hunt” fueled by “fake news” instigated by leading Democrats looking to distract attention from their election defeat and carried out by their lap dogs in the U.S. media.
In other words, Moscow’s reaction pretty much mirrors that of President Trump after Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from any investigations into alleged Russian interference in the presidential election. Sessions made the move after The Washington Post revealed that he twice met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak last year while still serving as a senator but did not disclose that during his Senate confirmation hearing in January. Sessions was an early backer of Trump’s bid for the presidency and served as an adviser and surrogate for the campaign.
Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said Friday that “all this is very much reminiscent of a witch hunt and the McCarthyism era which we all thought was long gone.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, commenting on reports that Trump’s son-in-law met with Kislyak in December, agreed with Trump’s use of the phrase “witch hunt,” saying “we have nothing to add to President Trump's exhaustive definition.”
But there’s a fundamental difference in what Russia and Trump are reacting to.
In the United States, the suggestion that Sessions was not forthcoming with the Senate hearing was enough to force him to step aside from potential probes, regardless of what he and Kislyak discussed.
But Moscow has never copped to the accusation by the U.S. intelligence community that it interfered in the election, and it sees any and all questions about Trump’s ties to Russia as symptoms of what it considers rampant Russophobia in America’s establishment. Two prominent daily newspapers, Moskovsky Komsomolets and Nezavisimaya Gazeta, featured commentary that cited anti-Russian hysteria in the United States as a primary source of the drive to oust national security adviser Mike Flynn and force Sessions to recuse himself.
In Washington, Trump’s warm words for Russian President Vladimir Putin, his half-joking call for Russia to hack into Hillary Clinton’s emails, and the revelation that Flynn discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with Kislyak before Trump took office have raised concerns that something more sinister is going on. Trump and his administration has resisted accepting the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia was attempting to help him win the election; Sessions in an interview on Fox News Thursday refused to acknowledge that Russia favored Trump over Clinton. Moscow blames anti-Russian hysteria for Sessions’s plight Its complete hysteria. Talking to a Russian in the US politics today is like treason. The crime behind talking to an ambassador from Russia! This is McCarthyism fueled by anger from losing an election to try and find the next witch to hunt and prosecute a crime of talking to a Russian. No one cares if people talk to Russians. It is the ongoing trend of failing to be forthcoming about doing so when asked. Then why did Senator Claire McCaskill lie about how she never met a Russian ambassador in 10 years? Why wasn't she forthcoming? Maybe its because in this political climate, acknowledging that you talk to a Russian turns into a witch hunt and you are called a traitor. Its like Hillary Clinton's emails divided by 100. A big bruhahaha over eventually nothing. McCaskill wasn't under oath. And she sort of sucks too, but that is another story. And yeah, it is a bit of a witch hunt. The Republicans started this practice and were very happy about how it turned out. The only way to stop them from using it again is to subject them to the same thing. Taking the high road on the subject gets Democrats nothing. And there also could be some fire to go with all this smoke too. Well if we cared about lies under oath, Sessions should go down with Clinton. Its the "intent" in law that matters. Did Clinton "intend" to deceive and lie? The FBI determined no there was no intent. Did Sessions "intend" to mislead or lie? If you look at the context of the question, which was about the campaign, and not as a member of Armed service committee, then you can give him the benefit of the doubt. I agree with not taking the high road. The Republicans made a huge bruhahaha over Emails and Benghazi which went nowhere and everyone laughed at them for it. But now the same play card is going to work for Democrats? None of that matters. What matters is that the Trump administration is being held to the same standard that Clinton was. Intent doesn't matter, only that they did something wrong(not matter how mild) and can be raked over the coals for it. No one wants politics to be like this, but one party tried to "take the high road" for a very long time, with terrible results. So now we just fight. Trump could solve all these problems by releasing his tax returns and demanding an independent investigator be appointed to look into the Russia issue. I don't disagree with anything you said here. As long as everyone knows this Russian thing is just a bruhaha. If Trump did order* Putin to hack the DNC, thats impeachable. But thats a huuuuuuge reach. Like it was a reach that Clinton used her email server to secretly send classified info intentionally around the world nefariously. This focus on Russia basically takes American politics from both sides of the aisle right into the gutter trash. So be it I guess, I don't think Democrats will come out of the other side victorious in gutter trash politics. Trump mastered gutter trash politics.
*request
No one orders Putin around )))
But yeah, this whole thing just seems like its lending to more extreme polarization. Where is this going to lead to? Will it just spontaneously end somehow, or will parties eventually begin to fracture? It's been an extremely weird 8 years under Obama who had quite a mild tone, and somehow I don't see Trump being the reconciliatory type.
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So apparently Euorpean Parliment has had enough of US stalling on the issue: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/europe-visa-free-travel-americans-european-parliament-vote-a7609406.html
The European Parliament has voted to end visa-free travel for Americans within the EU.
+ Show Spoiler +
It comes after the US failed to agree visa-free travel for citizens of five EU countries – Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland and Romania – as part of a reciprocity agreement. US citizens can normally travel to all countries in the bloc without a visa.
The vote urges the revocation of the scheme within two months, meaning Americans will have to apply for extra documents for 12 months after the European Commission implements a “delegated act” to bring the change into effect.
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EPT
