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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Sanya12364 Posts
CrowdStrike was the primary source and is still the only source of some possibly relevant and credible info DNC cyber-security. A couple things I learned from CrowdStrike in June.
Fancy Bear is the supposed culprit of a phishing attack in April 2016, where credentials were stolen. Cozy Bear attack appears much more sophisticated and was traced back to 2015 and may have been undetected for a long time. These Russia-based attackers act independently.
In theory, the most likely leaker is Fancy Bear.
The latest attack by "Fancy Bear" has unconvincing evidence to prove similarity.
alert tcp $HOME_NET any -> $EXTERNAL_NET $HTTP_PORTS (\ msg: “CrowdStrike FANCY BEAR X-Agent Android C2 Request”; \ flow: established,to_server; \ content: “lm=”; http_uri; \ pcre: “/^\/(watch|search|find|results|open|close)\/\?/U”; \ pcre: “/[\?\&](text|from|ags|oe|aq|btnG|oprnd)=/U”; \ classtype: trojan-activity; metadata: service http; \ sid: XXXX; rev: 20160815;)
The only thing in the snort rule is commentary by Crowdstrike that it's Fancy Bear otherwise it's a super generic homing message that any unsophisticated malware is doing. DNC & Ukraine malware's greatest similarity is effectiveness and lack of sophistication.
Again, there is no effort to establish the link between attack and Wikileak in any of this. Are we even trying or just making noise?
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
No, the Russia-Wikileaks link is pretty much assumed. Which is a reasonable assumption but it isn't proof - and it certainly makes the "we know why they did it" WaPo "anonymous source" leak a politicized head-scratcher.
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On January 01 2017 11:17 LegalLord wrote: No, the link is pretty much assumed. Which is a reasonable assumption but it isn't proof - and it certainly makes the "we know why they did it" a politicized head-scratcher.
Are you sure your post is long enough?
User was temp banned for this post.
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it's mostly people who don't know how to read and/or barely looked at the story. or heard about the story third-hand from other people who didn't read carefully. so they used poor sources and failed to filter properly. then started talking about it as if they knew what they were talking about when they didn't. so they just heard abotu russia "hacking" the elections, adn didn't read enough to know what it was actually about, and they thoguht it was vote-hacking rather than merely what actually happened.
also, idiots. lots of idiots in the world.
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Is Sarah Palin suggesting we (the US) quit the UN...
Her exact words seem to be "I called for our next president, Donald Trump, to call for the unshackling of the political bands tying us to the U.N." but even so I find that kind of baffling although I guess I really shouldn't.
Or am I missing something because I heard about this on Facebook and couldn't find a direct link to a typical news site so I dunno, I've had some rum but like yeah,
source + Show Spoiler +http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2016/12/29/palin-trump-call-unshackling-political-bands-tying-us-u-n/
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Estonia4504 Posts
On January 01 2017 11:05 TanGeng wrote:CrowdStrike was the primary source and is still the only source of some possibly relevant and credible info DNC cyber-security. A couple things I learned from CrowdStrike in June. Fancy Bear is the supposed culprit of a phishing attack in April 2016, where credentials were stolen. Cozy Bear attack appears much more sophisticated and was traced back to 2015 and may have been undetected for a long time. These Russia-based attackers act independently. In theory, the most likely leaker is Fancy Bear. The latest attack by "Fancy Bear" has unconvincing evidence to prove similarity. Show nested quote + alert tcp $HOME_NET any -> $EXTERNAL_NET $HTTP_PORTS (\ msg: “CrowdStrike FANCY BEAR X-Agent Android C2 Request”; \ flow: established,to_server; \ content: “lm=”; http_uri; \ pcre: “/^\/(watch|search|find|results|open|close)\/\?/U”; \ pcre: “/[\?\&](text|from|ags|oe|aq|btnG|oprnd)=/U”; \ classtype: trojan-activity; metadata: service http; \ sid: XXXX; rev: 20160815;)
The only thing in the snort rule is commentary by Crowdstrike that it's Fancy Bear otherwise it's a super generic homing message that any unsophisticated malware is doing. DNC & Ukraine malware's greatest similarity is effectiveness and lack of sophistication.
Again, there is no effort to establish the link between attack and Wikileak in any of this. Are we even trying or just making noise? I am sincerely curious, how one would go about proving a cyber attack or connection to Wikileaks beyond deniability. If there is a methodology in place for that, I would really like to know. To clarify, I am aware that all you posted was your argument about the proof not being conclusive. I'd also be extremely content with a PM if it would derail the thread too much.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On January 01 2017 12:11 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2017 11:05 TanGeng wrote:CrowdStrike was the primary source and is still the only source of some possibly relevant and credible info DNC cyber-security. A couple things I learned from CrowdStrike in June. Fancy Bear is the supposed culprit of a phishing attack in April 2016, where credentials were stolen. Cozy Bear attack appears much more sophisticated and was traced back to 2015 and may have been undetected for a long time. These Russia-based attackers act independently. In theory, the most likely leaker is Fancy Bear. The latest attack by "Fancy Bear" has unconvincing evidence to prove similarity. alert tcp $HOME_NET any -> $EXTERNAL_NET $HTTP_PORTS (\ msg: “CrowdStrike FANCY BEAR X-Agent Android C2 Request”; \ flow: established,to_server; \ content: “lm=”; http_uri; \ pcre: “/^\/(watch|search|find|results|open|close)\/\?/U”; \ pcre: “/[\?\&](text|from|ags|oe|aq|btnG|oprnd)=/U”; \ classtype: trojan-activity; metadata: service http; \ sid: XXXX; rev: 20160815;)
The only thing in the snort rule is commentary by Crowdstrike that it's Fancy Bear otherwise it's a super generic homing message that any unsophisticated malware is doing. DNC & Ukraine malware's greatest similarity is effectiveness and lack of sophistication.
Again, there is no effort to establish the link between attack and Wikileak in any of this. Are we even trying or just making noise? I am sincerely curious, how one would go about proving a cyber attack or connection to Wikileaks beyond deniability. If there is a methodology in place for that, I would really like to know. To clarify, I am aware that all you posted was your argument about the proof not being conclusive. I'd also be extremely content with a PM if it would derail the thread too much. It's not very easy to do. Which is why the degree of certainty associated with the conclusions requires some additional evidence to be believed. And whether or not you are simply content to say, "CIA said it, I believe it, that settles it!" as proof, depends on how much you trust them.
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On January 01 2017 12:09 Zambrah wrote:Is Sarah Palin suggesting we (the US) quit the UN... Her exact words seem to be "I called for our next president, Donald Trump, to call for the unshackling of the political bands tying us to the U.N." but even so I find that kind of baffling although I guess I really shouldn't. Or am I missing something because I heard about this on Facebook and couldn't find a direct link to a typical news site so I dunno, I've had some rum but like yeah, source + Show Spoiler +http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2016/12/29/palin-trump-call-unshackling-political-bands-tying-us-u-n/ sounds like palin saying dumb stuff, which is nothing new at all. since palin's only job now is saying dumb stuff for the crowd that eats it up, there's no need for her to actually understand the issues properly, not that she ever did. and even if she does, she can just say stuff like this.
your source looks to be accurate as it has a direct link to the audio.
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On January 01 2017 09:08 Gorsameth wrote:The sane people are not saying that Russia hacked the elections. They are saying that Russia hacked the DNC and used wikileaks to influence the narrative. Something many believe is not acceptable behaviour. Dumb/Insane people will believe anything anyway. Unacceptable but way blown out of proportion. Russia has tried to influence the election more than once in the past and it never had much of an influence. Clinton is just using it as an excuse for her loss and her being a terrible candidate.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Clinton may very well be the least self-aware presidential loser that I can remember in the US. Her inability to own up to the weaknesses that led to her defeat is mind-blowing.
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The UN is like the bar we all agreed to attend together so we don't kill each other and some other people take way to seriously. There isn't a reason to quit it even if you don't like it.
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On January 01 2017 12:42 LegalLord wrote: Clinton may very well be the least self-aware presidential loser that I can remember in the US. Her inability to own up to the weaknesses that led to her defeat is mind-blowing. Are you going on an interview she gave or something? Because from what i can tell she had just shut the fuck up, which is what failed presidential candidates are supposed to do. Even if she said some non-descript criticism of her opponent and something about not messaging to voters well enough or something, who cares? Like I get that you guys really hate Clinton a lot and wanna piss on the corpse some, but it really is time to move on.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
"Moving on" requires some understanding of why exactly it is that your delectably electable candidate lost at the upper level and your party got mostly thrown out of government at every level. All the while, both the opposing party's president and its rank-and-file have utterly dismal approval ratings yet they still won.
Non-explanations: James Comey, the Russians, racists/sexists/deplorables, everyone is an idiot, etc.
Real explanations (remarkably sparse): policies and acts that were poorly conceived, groups which were not appealed to well, systematic faults in the organization.
The presidential loser should be among those who are looking into that, rather than the reality where the cover story is that James Comey conspired with Russia and the Legion of Doom to stop her from obtaining her birthright. Evidently little to no such self-reflection has occurred at the structural party level.
The big donors and special interests agree with me.
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On January 01 2017 17:40 LegalLord wrote:"Moving on" requires some understanding of why exactly it is that your delectably electable candidate lost at the upper level and your party got mostly thrown out of government at every level. All the while, both the opposing party's president and its rank-and-file have utterly dismal approval ratings yet they still won. Non-explanations: James Comey, the Russians, racists/sexists/deplorables, everyone is an idiot, etc. Real explanations (remarkably sparse): policies and acts that were poorly conceived, groups which were not appealed to well, systematic faults in the organization. The presidential loser should be among those who are looking into that, rather than the reality where the cover story is that James Comey conspired with Russia and the Legion of Doom to stop her from obtaining her birthright. Evidently little to no such self-reflection has occurred at the structural party level. The big donors and special interests agree with me. I remember just about this time four years ago, Romney was getting questions like that and just said something along the lines of "Look, I'm the last person you should be asking, I just lost." And that seemed perfectly appropriate to me. So insomuch as she hasn't really said anything since the election, you shitting on her is just as useless as whining about James Comey. The Democratic Party has to figure out how they lost and what to fix. Hillary Rodham Clinton does not.
It's worth drawing a distinction, by the way: James Comey, the Russians, deplorables, Electoral College, etc. are not non-explanations – if true, they do help explain the election result. The reason they're worthless is not because they're explanations, it's that they don't help us know where to go from here. I can completely coherently believe that James Comey, Russian intervention, and the Electoral College were all favoring DT this election, and minus any of these three factors he would have lost, while simultaneously believing that the Democratic Party needs some answers for how this election got that close in the first place and that they need to rethink their platform, their messaging, or both.
Racism isn't even a useless explanation in that sense. It's worth asking to what degree racism is becoming a bigger factor in US elections, and how Democrats can fight that. For instance, if it really is a big factor, they could get some dogwhistles of their own. Alternatively, if they really buy that Michelle Obama line, they can try to put focused messaging on pulling people back to anti-racist positions. Point is, if that's a true reason for the election outcome, that's a political reality that will affect political strategy in the future.
Is that a true description of why they lost? I don't know. But I don't really know that racism is a much less plausible explanation of Trump's victory than what you usually seem to be selling, some kind of grassroots opposition to free trade. I mean, yeah, people want their jobs back, like they have for the last 20 or more years, but trade policy is already a pretty dry policy discussion, and this was one the least informed, least policy-based elections in a long time. So did people vote for Donald Trump because they thought he could reverse globalization and automation? Or did they vote for him because he was going to make America American (wink) again? There's probably contributions from both, but for my money if Democrats started four years of messaging to try to convince the American people they're the real protectionists, and they can raise tariffs and prevent outsourcing way better than that orange guy, I think they'd find themselves scratching their heads for why all those white people still wouldn't come back and vote for them, and I think the answer is that people don't give a shit about tariffs because they don't know what they are. They just wanted to be whipped up into a frenzy about how all those coastal elites and foreigners are fucking up Their America, and we need to put Real Americans back in charge.
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This thread should really separate two issues: Hillary Clinton and the Russia hacking. Talking about the latter does not have to be tied to the former. If you believe US intelligence (not just the CIA) and the FBI that Russia conducted election related hacking (there supposedly is more evidence that has not yet been released), that in itself is something worthy of retaliation.
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Russian intelligence and security services have been waging a campaign of harassment and intimidation against U.S. diplomats, embassy staff and their families in Moscow and several other European capitals that has rattled ambassadors and prompted Secretary of State John F. Kerry to ask Vladimir Putin to put a stop to it.
At a recent meeting of U.S. ambassadors from Russia and Europe in Washington, U.S. ambassadors to several European countries complained that Russian intelligence officials were constantly perpetrating acts of harassment against their diplomatic staff that ranged from the weird to the downright scary. Some of the intimidation has been routine: following diplomats or their family members, showing up at their social events uninvited or paying reporters to write negative stories about them.
But many of the recent acts of intimidation by Russian security services have crossed the line into apparent criminality. In a series of secret memos sent back to Washington, described to me by several current and former U.S. officials who have written or read them, diplomats reported that Russian intruders had broken into their homes late at night, only to rearrange the furniture or turn on all the lights and televisions, and then leave. One diplomat reported that an intruder had defecated on his living room carpet.
In Moscow, where the harassment is most pervasive, diplomats reported slashed tires and regular harassment by traffic police. Former ambassador Michael McFaul was hounded by government-paid protesters, and intelligence personnel followed his children to school. The harassment is not new; in the first term of the Obama administration, Russian intelligence personnel broke into the house of the U.S. defense attache in Moscow and killed his dog, according to multiple former officials who read the intelligence reports.
But since the 2014 Russian intervention in Ukraine, which prompted a wide range of U.S. sanctions against Russian officials and businesses close to Putin, harassment and surveillance of U.S. diplomatic staff in Moscow by security personnel and traffic police have increased significantly, State Department press secretary John Kirby confirmed to me.
“Since the return of Putin, Russia has been engaged in an increasingly aggressive gray war across Europe. Now it’s in retaliation for Western sanctions because of Ukraine. The widely reported harassment is another front in the gray war,” said Norm Eisen, U.S. ambassador the Czech Republic from 2011 to 2014. “They are hitting American diplomats literally where they live.”
The State Department has taken several measures in response to the increased level of nefarious activity by the Russian government. All U.S. diplomats headed for Europe now receive increased training on how to handle Russian harassment, and the European affairs bureau run by Assistant Secretary Victoria Nuland has set up regular interagency meetings on tracking and responding to the incidents.
McFaul told me he and his family were regularly followed and the Russian intelligence services wanted his family to know they were being watched. Other embassy officials also suffered routine harassment that increased significantly after the Ukraine-related sanctions. Those diplomats who were trying to report on Russian activities faced the worst of it.
“It was part of a way to put pressure on government officials who were trying to do their reporting jobs. It definitely escalated when I was there. After the invasion of Ukraine, it got much, much worse,” McFaul said. “We were feeling embattled out there in the embassy.”
There was a debate inside the Obama administration about how to respond, and ultimately President Obama made the decision not to respond with similar measures against Russian diplomats, McFaul said.
A spokesman for the Russian Embassy in Washington sent me a long statement both tacitly admitting to the harassment and defending it as a response to what he called U.S. provocations and mistreatment of Russian diplomats in the United States.
Russia is harassing U.S. diplomats all over Europe
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On January 01 2017 12:42 LegalLord wrote: Clinton may very well be the least self-aware presidential loser that I can remember in the US. Her inability to own up to the weaknesses that led to her defeat is mind-blowing.
Who cares? I mean, she's done in US politics now, so what does it matter?
I am confused about why you seem more upset about Hillary's lack of introspection than any of the demonstrably nuts things the actual President-elect continues to do. Edited to add, this isn't a unique view. There appear to be a group that are so angry that the Democrats nominated HRC and that she failed to beat Trump that they have swung 180 degrees and become apologists for anything and anyone that stands in opposition to her. I don't really get it (and this is from someone who doesn't like HRC at all as a person but found her infinitely more appropriate as a choice for President compared to Trump).
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On January 02 2017 00:18 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +Russian intelligence and security services have been waging a campaign of harassment and intimidation against U.S. diplomats, embassy staff and their families in Moscow and several other European capitals that has rattled ambassadors and prompted Secretary of State John F. Kerry to ask Vladimir Putin to put a stop to it.
At a recent meeting of U.S. ambassadors from Russia and Europe in Washington, U.S. ambassadors to several European countries complained that Russian intelligence officials were constantly perpetrating acts of harassment against their diplomatic staff that ranged from the weird to the downright scary. Some of the intimidation has been routine: following diplomats or their family members, showing up at their social events uninvited or paying reporters to write negative stories about them.
But many of the recent acts of intimidation by Russian security services have crossed the line into apparent criminality. In a series of secret memos sent back to Washington, described to me by several current and former U.S. officials who have written or read them, diplomats reported that Russian intruders had broken into their homes late at night, only to rearrange the furniture or turn on all the lights and televisions, and then leave. One diplomat reported that an intruder had defecated on his living room carpet.
In Moscow, where the harassment is most pervasive, diplomats reported slashed tires and regular harassment by traffic police. Former ambassador Michael McFaul was hounded by government-paid protesters, and intelligence personnel followed his children to school. The harassment is not new; in the first term of the Obama administration, Russian intelligence personnel broke into the house of the U.S. defense attache in Moscow and killed his dog, according to multiple former officials who read the intelligence reports.
But since the 2014 Russian intervention in Ukraine, which prompted a wide range of U.S. sanctions against Russian officials and businesses close to Putin, harassment and surveillance of U.S. diplomatic staff in Moscow by security personnel and traffic police have increased significantly, State Department press secretary John Kirby confirmed to me.
“Since the return of Putin, Russia has been engaged in an increasingly aggressive gray war across Europe. Now it’s in retaliation for Western sanctions because of Ukraine. The widely reported harassment is another front in the gray war,” said Norm Eisen, U.S. ambassador the Czech Republic from 2011 to 2014. “They are hitting American diplomats literally where they live.”
The State Department has taken several measures in response to the increased level of nefarious activity by the Russian government. All U.S. diplomats headed for Europe now receive increased training on how to handle Russian harassment, and the European affairs bureau run by Assistant Secretary Victoria Nuland has set up regular interagency meetings on tracking and responding to the incidents.
McFaul told me he and his family were regularly followed and the Russian intelligence services wanted his family to know they were being watched. Other embassy officials also suffered routine harassment that increased significantly after the Ukraine-related sanctions. Those diplomats who were trying to report on Russian activities faced the worst of it.
“It was part of a way to put pressure on government officials who were trying to do their reporting jobs. It definitely escalated when I was there. After the invasion of Ukraine, it got much, much worse,” McFaul said. “We were feeling embattled out there in the embassy.”
There was a debate inside the Obama administration about how to respond, and ultimately President Obama made the decision not to respond with similar measures against Russian diplomats, McFaul said.
A spokesman for the Russian Embassy in Washington sent me a long statement both tacitly admitting to the harassment and defending it as a response to what he called U.S. provocations and mistreatment of Russian diplomats in the United States. Russia is harassing U.S. diplomats all over Europe
So fucking embarrassing amd infuriating. Why let them play games like this?
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On January 02 2017 05:29 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2017 00:18 farvacola wrote:Russian intelligence and security services have been waging a campaign of harassment and intimidation against U.S. diplomats, embassy staff and their families in Moscow and several other European capitals that has rattled ambassadors and prompted Secretary of State John F. Kerry to ask Vladimir Putin to put a stop to it.
At a recent meeting of U.S. ambassadors from Russia and Europe in Washington, U.S. ambassadors to several European countries complained that Russian intelligence officials were constantly perpetrating acts of harassment against their diplomatic staff that ranged from the weird to the downright scary. Some of the intimidation has been routine: following diplomats or their family members, showing up at their social events uninvited or paying reporters to write negative stories about them.
But many of the recent acts of intimidation by Russian security services have crossed the line into apparent criminality. In a series of secret memos sent back to Washington, described to me by several current and former U.S. officials who have written or read them, diplomats reported that Russian intruders had broken into their homes late at night, only to rearrange the furniture or turn on all the lights and televisions, and then leave. One diplomat reported that an intruder had defecated on his living room carpet.
In Moscow, where the harassment is most pervasive, diplomats reported slashed tires and regular harassment by traffic police. Former ambassador Michael McFaul was hounded by government-paid protesters, and intelligence personnel followed his children to school. The harassment is not new; in the first term of the Obama administration, Russian intelligence personnel broke into the house of the U.S. defense attache in Moscow and killed his dog, according to multiple former officials who read the intelligence reports.
But since the 2014 Russian intervention in Ukraine, which prompted a wide range of U.S. sanctions against Russian officials and businesses close to Putin, harassment and surveillance of U.S. diplomatic staff in Moscow by security personnel and traffic police have increased significantly, State Department press secretary John Kirby confirmed to me.
“Since the return of Putin, Russia has been engaged in an increasingly aggressive gray war across Europe. Now it’s in retaliation for Western sanctions because of Ukraine. The widely reported harassment is another front in the gray war,” said Norm Eisen, U.S. ambassador the Czech Republic from 2011 to 2014. “They are hitting American diplomats literally where they live.”
The State Department has taken several measures in response to the increased level of nefarious activity by the Russian government. All U.S. diplomats headed for Europe now receive increased training on how to handle Russian harassment, and the European affairs bureau run by Assistant Secretary Victoria Nuland has set up regular interagency meetings on tracking and responding to the incidents.
McFaul told me he and his family were regularly followed and the Russian intelligence services wanted his family to know they were being watched. Other embassy officials also suffered routine harassment that increased significantly after the Ukraine-related sanctions. Those diplomats who were trying to report on Russian activities faced the worst of it.
“It was part of a way to put pressure on government officials who were trying to do their reporting jobs. It definitely escalated when I was there. After the invasion of Ukraine, it got much, much worse,” McFaul said. “We were feeling embattled out there in the embassy.”
There was a debate inside the Obama administration about how to respond, and ultimately President Obama made the decision not to respond with similar measures against Russian diplomats, McFaul said.
A spokesman for the Russian Embassy in Washington sent me a long statement both tacitly admitting to the harassment and defending it as a response to what he called U.S. provocations and mistreatment of Russian diplomats in the United States. Russia is harassing U.S. diplomats all over Europe So fucking embarrassing amd infuriating. Why let them play games like this?
Yeah, this is literally trolling U.S. diplomats IRL, not sure what a correct response would be.
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I'm not sure either, but shit like killing the dog? When we KNOW this is Russian sanctioned since nothing happens in Moscow without the Kremlin knowing, then doing nothing, if that is what we are doing, seems inappropriate.
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