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On November 01 2016 07:58 zlefin wrote: I'd have thought any regular thread follower by now could put together a list of solid weaknesses/flaws for Hillary; or valid criticisms against. Sure, there might not be many when you clear away the chaff, but there's certainly a few.
magpie, surely you can identify 1-2 issues with Hillary that you believe are sound?
More than 1-2
Tim Kaine nomination to me is her biggest as it tells me that she thinks she's the liberal candidate when she really is the centrist. This suggests she's either slightly out of touch, or is just super committed to pre-made plans that her and her advisors have already agreed on--neither are very good. Assuming she is the more positive of the two--which is that she is inflexible at shifting gears once a plan is in motion--this is very good for "pull the trigger" decisions/scenarios (like the oft touted Bin Laden humble brag), less so for softer touch long term engagements. Obama and Bill were super flexible and super good at re-translating shifts in their plans so it never seemed like they were comprising or out of touch, which is how Obama was able to get his drone programming running for years before anyone realized it. Bush Jr. was really bad at it and is the reason why he got a lot of support for Afghanistan but was unable to shift public sentiment when he found reason to go after Iraq. The nomination tells me she will be closer to Bush Jr. in this department which has its biggest problems when guiding the american people through times when plans go south; like if her touted education program does not get enough support for example. Things like this are important because of the nature of political support and public sentiment being super entwined with each other such that slip ups like that end up slowing down progress across the board.
I'm also fairly unhappy with her decision to isolate Russia as a target of interest. Not that I disagree with her assessment of the situation, but this is definitely something that her "supporters" should be vocal about while she herself should be silent about. She has been super far ahead of Trump and does not need to make foreign policy promises she might be forced to delay. Obama made a similar error during his Primary run with his emphasis of getting out of Iraq and shifting armed focus to Afghanistan. As such we got stuck with an "exit strategy" for Iraq that was not slow enough, despite it taking nearly half a decade to complete. The reason Obama did it however was because he was the underdog, as such he needed to show the people something about him that makes the risk of voting for him worth it. Hillary is not in the same position. Hillary went on defense when she didn't have to in this case and will force a policy decision before she has all the facts in place--that makes me nervous.
Another issue I have with Hillary is her wanting to both expand the ACA while making education free for certain demographics at the same time. For the education portion of her policy she is forced into it in order to gain Bernie's support, but putting together these policies at the same time before the Republican Party imploded tells me that she did not plan to get improvements to the ACA passed since it would have been easier to negotiate an education reform bill at the cost of expanding the ACA than the other way around. She might have gotten lucky with Trump causing a self destruct on the GOP allowing a possible switch in house and senate majority allowing her to get both her asks instead of just one of them--but its definitely a sticky point for me that she would use the ACA as leverage tool like that. Thankfully the implosion might prevent this from happening, but her sticking with Kaine makes me nervous about her being able to adapt to the new circumstance smoothly.
These are the kinds of issues I have with Hillary, and most candidates actually. I have more than a few more of these complaints, but for the most part I aim to keep my issues based on what she has said or did recently as opposed to what she did almost two to three decades ago.
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I'm seeing this slate article start to be referenced a lot
Was a Trump Server Communicating With Russia?
This spring, a group of computer scientists set out to determine whether hackers were interfering with the Trump campaign. They found something they weren’t expecting.
The greatest miracle of the internet is that it exists—the second greatest is that it persists. Every so often we’re reminded that bad actors wield great skill and have little conscience about the harm they inflict on the world’s digital nervous system. They invent viruses, botnets, and sundry species of malware. There’s good money to be made deflecting these incursions. But a small, tightly knit community of computer scientists who pursue such work—some at cybersecurity firms, some in academia, some with close ties to three-letter federal agencies—is also spurred by a sense of shared idealism and considers itself the benevolent posse that chases off the rogues and rogue states that try to purloin sensitive data and infect the internet with their bugs. “We’re the Union of Concerned Nerds,” in the wry formulation of the Indiana University computer scientist L. Jean Camp.
In late spring, this community of malware hunters placed itself in a high state of alarm. Word arrived that Russian hackers had infiltrated the servers of the Democratic National Committee, an attack persuasively detailed by the respected cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike. The computer scientists posited a logical hypothesis, which they set out to rigorously test: If the Russians were worming their way into the DNC, they might very well be attacking other entities central to the presidential campaign, including Donald Trump’s many servers. “We wanted to help defend both campaigns, because we wanted to preserve the integrity of the election,” says one of the academics, who works at a university that asked him not to speak with reporters because of the sensitive nature of his work.
Hunting for malware requires highly specialized knowledge of the intricacies of the domain name system—the protocol that allows us to type email addresses and website names to initiate communication. DNS enables our words to set in motion a chain of connections between servers, which in turn delivers the results we desire. Before a mail server can deliver a message to another mail server, it has to look up its IP address using the DNS. Computer scientists have built a set of massive DNS databases, which provide fragmentary histories of communications flows, in part to create an archive of malware: a kind of catalog of the tricks bad actors have tried to pull, which often involve masquerading as legitimate actors. These databases can give a useful, though far from comprehensive, snapshot of traffic across the internet. Some of the most trusted DNS specialists—an elite group of malware hunters, who work for private contractors—have access to nearly comprehensive logs of communication between servers. They work in close concert with internet service providers, the networks through which most of us connect to the internet, and the ones that are most vulnerable to massive attacks. To extend the traffic metaphor, these scientists have cameras posted on the internet’s stoplights and overpasses. They are entrusted with something close to a complete record of all the servers of the world connecting with one another.
In late July, one of these scientists—who asked to be referred to as Tea Leaves, a pseudonym that would protect his relationship with the networks and banks that employ him to sift their data—found what looked like malware emanating from Russia. The destination domain had Trump in its name, which of course attracted Tea Leaves’ attention. But his discovery of the data was pure happenstance—a surprising needle in a large haystack of DNS lookups on his screen. “I have an outlier here that connects to Russia in a strange way,” he wrote in his notes. He couldn’t quite figure it out at first. But what he saw was a bank in Moscow that kept irregularly pinging a server registered to the Trump Organization on Fifth Avenue.
More data was needed, so he began carefully keeping logs of the Trump server’s DNS activity. As he collected the logs, he would circulate them in periodic batches to colleagues in the cybersecurity world. Six of them began scrutinizing them for clues.
Trump Tower. Trump Tower. Ullstein Bild/Getty Images
(I communicated extensively with Tea Leaves and two of his closest collaborators, who also spoke with me on the condition of anonymity, since they work for firms trusted by corporations and law enforcement to analyze sensitive data. They persuasively demonstrated some of their analytical methods to me—and showed me two white papers, which they had circulated so that colleagues could check their analysis. I also spoke with academics who vouched for Tea Leaves’ integrity and his unusual access to information. “This is someone I know well and is very well-known in the networking community,” said Camp. “When they say something about DNS, you believe them. This person has technical authority and access to data.”)
The researchers quickly dismissed their initial fear that the logs represented a malware attack. The communication wasn’t the work of bots. The irregular pattern of server lookups actually resembled the pattern of human conversation—conversations that began during office hours in New York and continued during office hours in Moscow. It dawned on the researchers that this wasn’t an attack, but a sustained relationship between a server registered to the Trump Organization and two servers registered to an entity called Alfa Bank.
The researchers had initially stumbled in their diagnosis because of the odd configuration of Trump’s server. “I’ve never seen a server set up like that,” says Christopher Davis, who runs the cybersecurity firm HYAS InfoSec Inc. and won a FBI Director Award for Excellence for his work tracking down the authors of one of the world’s nastiest botnet attacks. “It looked weird, and it didn’t pass the sniff test.” The server was first registered to Trump’s business in 2009 and was set up to run consumer marketing campaigns. It had a history of sending mass emails on behalf of Trump-branded properties and products. Researchers were ultimately convinced that the server indeed belonged to Trump. (Click here to see the server’s registration record.) But now this capacious server handled a strangely small load of traffic, such a small load that it would be hard for a company to justify the expense and trouble it would take to maintain it. “I get more mail in a day than the server handled,” Davis says.
“I’ve never seen a server set up like that.” Christopher Davis of the cybersecurity firm HYAS InfoSec Inc. That wasn’t the only oddity. When the researchers pinged the server, they received error messages. They concluded that the server was set to accept only incoming communication from a very small handful of IP addresses. A small portion of the logs showed communication with a server belonging to Michigan-based Spectrum Health. (The company said in a statement: “Spectrum Health does not have a relationship with Alfa Bank or any of the Trump organizations. We have concluded a rigorous investigation with both our internal IT security specialists and expert cyber security firms. Our experts have conducted a detailed analysis of the alleged internet traffic and did not find any evidence that it included any actual communications (no emails, chat, text, etc.) between Spectrum Health and Alfa Bank or any of the Trump organizations. While we did find a small number of incoming spam marketing emails, they originated from a digital marketing company, Cendyn, advertising Trump Hotels.”)
Spectrum accounted for a relatively trivial portion of the traffic. Eighty-seven percent of the DNS lookups involved the two Alfa Bank servers. “It’s pretty clear that it’s not an open mail server,” Camp told me. “These organizations are communicating in a way designed to block other people out.”
Earlier this month, the group of computer scientists passed the logs to Paul Vixie. In the world of DNS experts, there’s no higher authority. Vixie wrote central strands of the DNS code that makes the internet work. After studying the logs, he concluded, “The parties were communicating in a secretive fashion. The operative word is secretive. This is more akin to what criminal syndicates do if they are putting together a project.” Put differently, the logs suggested that Trump and Alfa had configured something like a digital hotline connecting the two entities, shutting out the rest of the world, and designed to obscure its own existence. Over the summer, the scientists observed the communications trail from a distance.
* * *
While the researchers went about their work, the conventional wisdom about Russian interference in the campaign began to shift. There were reports that the Trump campaign had ordered the Republican Party to rewrite its platform position on Ukraine, maneuvering the GOP toward a policy preferred by Russia, though the Trump campaign denied having a hand in the change. Then Trump announced in an interview with the New York Times his unwillingness to spring to the defense of NATO allies in the face of a Russian invasion. Trump even invited Russian hackers to go hunting for Clinton’s emails, then passed the comment off as a joke. (I wrote about Trump’s relationship with Russia in early July.)
In the face of accusations that he is somehow backed by Putin or in business with Russian investors, Trump has issued categorical statements. “I mean I have nothing to do with Russia,” he told one reporter, a flat denial that he repeated over and over. Of course, it’s possible that these statements are sincere and even correct. The sweeping nature of Trump’s claim, however, prodded the scientists to dig deeper. They were increasingly confident that they were observing data that contradicted Trump’s claims.
US Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump speaks at a rally at The Champions Center Expo in Springfield, Ohio, on October 27, 2016. Donald Trump speaks at a rally at in Springfield, Ohio, on Thursday. Paul Vernon/Getty Images
In the parlance that has become familiar since the Edward Snowden revelations, the DNS logs reside in the realm of metadata. We can see a trail of transmissions, but we can’t see the actual substance of the communications. And we can’t even say with complete certitude that the servers exchanged email. One scientist, who wasn’t involved in the effort to compile and analyze the logs, ticked off a list of other possibilities: an errant piece of spam caroming between servers, a misdirected email that kept trying to reach its destination, which created the impression of sustained communication. “I’m seeing a preponderance of the evidence, but not a smoking gun,” he said. Richard Clayton, a cybersecurity researcher at Cambridge University who was sent one of the white papers laying out the evidence, acknowledges those objections and the alternative theories but considers them improbable. “I think mail is more likely, because it’s going to a machine running a mail server and [the host] is called mail. Dr. Occam says you should rule out mail before pulling out the more exotic explanations.” After Tea Leaves posted his analysis on Reddit, a security blogger who goes by Krypt3ia expressed initial doubts—but his analysis was tarnished by several incorrect assumptions, and as he examined the matter, his skepticism of Tea Leaves softened somewhat.
I put the question of what kind of activity the logs recorded to the University of California’s Nicholas Weaver, another computer scientist not involved in compiling the logs. “I can't attest to the logs themselves,” he told me, “but assuming they are legitimate they do indicate effectively human-level communication.”
Weaver’s statement raises another uncertainty: Are the logs authentic? Computer scientists are careful about vouching for evidence that emerges from unknown sources—especially since the logs were pasted in a text file, where they could conceivably have been edited. I asked nine computer scientists—some who agreed to speak on the record, some who asked for anonymity—if the DNS logs that Tea Leaves and his collaborators discovered could be forged or manipulated. They considered it nearly impossible. It would be easy enough to fake one or maybe even a dozen records of DNS lookups. But in the aggregate, the logs contained thousands of records, with nuances and patterns that not even the most skilled programmers would be able to recreate on this scale. “The data has got the right kind of fuzz growing on it,” Vixie told me. “It’s the interpacket gap, the spacing between the conversations, the total volume. If you look at those time stamps, they are not simulated. This bears every indication that it was collected from a live link.” I asked him if there was a chance that he was wrong about their authenticity. “This passes the reasonable person test,” he told me. “No reasonable person would come to the conclusion other than the one I’ve come to.” Others were equally emphatic. “It would be really, really hard to fake these,” Davis said. According to Camp, “When the technical community examined the data, the conclusion was pretty obvious.”
It’s possible to impute political motives to the computer scientists, some of whom have criticized Trump on social media. But many of the scientists who talked to me for this story are Republicans. And almost all have strong incentives for steering clear of controversy. Some work at public institutions, where they are vulnerable to political pressure. Others work for firms that rely on government contracts—a relationship that tends to squash positions that could be misinterpreted as outspoken.
* * *
The researchers were seeing patterns in the data—and the Trump Organization’s potential interlocutor was itself suggestive. Alfa Bank emerged in the messy post-Soviet scramble to create a private Russian economy. Its founder was a Ukrainian called Mikhail Fridman. He erected his empire in a frenetic rush—in a matter of years, he rose from operating a window washing company to the purchase of the Bolshevik Biscuit Factory to the co-founding of his bank with some friends from university. Fridman could be charmingly open when describing this era. In 2003, he told the Financial Times, “Of course we benefitted from events in the country over the past 10 years. Of course we understand that the distribution of state property was not very objective. … I don’t want to lie and play this game. To say one can be completely clean and transparent is not realistic.”
To build out the bank, Fridman recruited a skilled economist and shrewd operator called Pyotr Aven. In the early ’90s, Aven worked with Vladimir Putin in the St. Petersburg government—and according to several accounts, helped Putin wiggle out of accusations of corruption that might have derailed his ascent. (Karen Dawisha recounts this history in her book Putin’s Kleptocracy.) Over time, Alfa built one of the world’s most lucrative enterprises. Fridman became the second richest man in Russia, valued by Forbes at $15.3 billion.
Alfa’s oligarchs occupied an unusual position in Putin’s firmament. They were insiders but not in the closest ring of power. “It’s like they were his judo pals,” one former U.S. government official who knows Fridman told me. “They were always worried about where they stood in the pecking order and always feared expropriation.” Fridman and Aven, however, are adept at staying close to power. As the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia once ruled, in the course of dismissing a libel suit the bankers filed, “Aven and Fridman have assumed an unforeseen level of prominence and influence in the economic and political affairs of their nation.” Unlike other Russian firms, Alfa has operated smoothly and effortlessly in the West. It has never been slapped with sanctions. Fridman and Aven have cultivated a reputation as beneficent philanthropists. They endowed a prestigious fellowship. The Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, the American-government funded think tank, gave Aven its award for “Corporate Citizenship” in 2015. To protect its interests in Washington, Alfa hired as its lobbyist former Reagan administration official Ed Rogers. Richard Burt, who helped Trump write the speech in which he first laid out his foreign policy, serves on Alfa’s senior advisory board. The branding campaign has worked well. During the first Obama term, Fridman and Aven met with officials in the White House on two occasions, according to visitor logs.
Fridman and Aven have significant business interests to promote in the West. One of their holding companies, LetterOne, has vowed to invest as much as $3 billion in U.S. health care. This year, it sank $200 million into Uber. This is, of course, money that might otherwise be invested in Russia. According to a former U.S. official, Putin tolerates this condition because Alfa advances Russian interests. It promotes itself as an avatar of Russian prowess. “It’s our moral duty to become a global player, to prove a Russian can transform into an international businessman,” Fridman told the Financial Times.
* * *
Tea Leaves and his colleagues plotted the data from the logs on a timeline. What it illustrated was suggestive: The conversation between the Trump and Alfa servers appeared to follow the contours of political happenings in the United States. “At election-related moments, the traffic peaked,” according to Camp. There were considerably more DNS lookups, for instance, during the two conventions.
Click to zoom Start: DNS lookup history start date.
RFC from Alfa-Bank: Alfa-Bank rep provided with 2 ips, hostname, count.
Errors: 4:11am UTC: DNS lookup errors Trump-Email.com.
Errors: 1:12am UTC: DNS lookup errors Trump-Email.com.
Taken down: 9:53am EST USA time: Trump-Email.com deleted from Trump authoritative name server zone.
In September, the scientists tried to get the public to pay attention to their data. One of them posted a link to the logs in a Reddit thread. Around the same time, the New York Times’ Eric Lichtblau and Steven Lee Myers began chasing the story.* (They are still pursuing it.) Lichtblau met with a Washington representative of Alfa Bank on Sept. 21, and the bank denied having any connection to Trump. (Lichtblau told me that Times policy prevents him from commenting on his reporting.)
The Times hadn’t yet been in touch with the Trump campaign—Lichtblau spoke with the campaign a week later—but shortly after it reached out to Alfa, the Trump domain name in question seemed to suddenly stop working. When the scientists looked up the host, the DNS server returned a fail message, evidence that it no longer functioned. Or as it is technically diagnosed, it had “SERVFAILed.” (On the timeline above, this is the moment at the end of the chronology when the traffic abruptly spikes, as servers frantically attempt to resend rejected messages.) The computer scientists believe there was one logical conclusion to be drawn: The Trump Organization shut down the server after Alfa was told that the Times might expose the connection. Weaver told me the Trump domain was “very sloppily removed.” Or as another of the researchers put it, it looked like “the knee was hit in Moscow, the leg kicked in New York.”
As one of the researchers put it, it looked like “the knee was hit in Moscow, the leg kicked in New York.” Four days later, on Sept. 27, the Trump Organization created a new host name, trump1.contact-client.com, which enabled communication to the very same server via a different route. When a new host name is created, the first communication with it is never random. To reach the server after the resetting of the host name, the sender of the first inbound mail has to first learn of the name somehow. It’s simply impossible to randomly reach a renamed server. “That party had to have some kind of outbound message through SMS, phone, or some noninternet channel they used to communicate [the new configuration],” Paul Vixie told me. The first attempt to look up the revised host name came from Alfa Bank. “If this was a public server, we would have seen other traces,” Vixie says. “The only look-ups came from this particular source.”
According to Vixie and others, the new host name may have represented an attempt to establish a new channel of communication. But media inquiries into the nature of Trump’s relationship with Alfa Bank, which suggested that their communications were being monitored, may have deterred the parties from using it. Soon after the New York Times began to ask questions, the traffic between the servers stopped cold.
* * *
Last week, I wrote to Alfa Bank asking if it could explain why its servers attempted to connect with the Trump Organization on such a regular basis. Its Washington representative, Jeffrey Birnbaum of the public relations firm BGR, provided me the following response:
Alfa hired Mandiant, one of the world's foremost cyber security experts, to investigate and it has found nothing to the allegations. I hope the below answers respond clearly to your questions. Neither Alfa Bank nor its principals, including Mikhail Fridman and Petr Aven, have or have had any contact with Mr. Trump or his organizations. Fridman and Aven have never met Mr. Trump nor have they or Alfa Bank had any business dealings with him. Neither Alfa nor its officers have sent Mr. Trump or his organizations any emails, information or money. Alfa Bank does not have and has never had any special or exclusive internet connection with Mr. Trump or his entities. The assertion of a special or private link is patently false. I asked Birnbaum if he would connect me with Mandiant to elaborate on its findings. He told me:
Mandiant is still doing its deep dive into the Alfa Bank systems. Its leading theory is that Alfa Bank's servers may have been responding with common DNS look ups to spam sent to it by a marketing server. But it doesn't want to speak on the record until it's finished its investigation. It’s hard to evaluate the findings of an investigation that hasn’t ended. And of course, even the most reputable firm in the world isn’t likely to loudly broadcast an opinion that bites the hand of its client.
I posed the same basic questions to the Trump campaign. Trump spokeswoman Hope Hicks sent me this in response to my questions by email:
The email server, set up for marketing purposes and operated by a third-party, has not been used since 2010. The current traffic on the server from Alphabank's [sic] IP address is regular DNS server traffic—not email traffic. To be clear, The Trump Organization is not sending or receiving any communications from this email server. The Trump Organization has no communication or relationship with this entity or any Russian entity. I asked Hicks to explain what caused the Trump Organization to rename its host after the New York Times called Alfa. I also asked how the Trump Organization arrived at its judgment that there was no email traffic. (Furthermore, there’s no such thing as “regular” DNS server traffic, at least not according to the computer scientists I consulted. The very reason DNS exists is to enable email and other means of communication.) She never provided me with a response.
What the scientists amassed wasn’t a smoking gun. It’s a suggestive body of evidence that doesn’t absolutely preclude alternative explanations. But this evidence arrives in the broader context of the campaign and everything else that has come to light: The efforts of Donald Trump’s former campaign manager to bring Ukraine into Vladimir Putin’s orbit; the other Trump adviser whose communications with senior Russian officials have worried intelligence officials; the Russian hacking of the DNC and John Podesta’s email.
We don’t yet know what this server was for, but it deserves further explanation.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/10/was_a_server_registered_to_the_trump_organization_communicating_with_russia.html
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On November 01 2016 08:40 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2016 08:28 ChristianS wrote:On November 01 2016 08:12 zlefin wrote:On November 01 2016 08:01 ChristianS wrote:On November 01 2016 07:58 zlefin wrote: I'd have thought any regular thread follower by now could put together a list of solid weaknesses/flaws for Hillary; or valid criticisms against. Sure, there might not be many when you clear away the chaff, but there's certainly a few. I mean this is what i was asking about the other day; it seems like 90% of people are perfectly content to repeat the refrain "Hillary is corrupt" but when you ask for details they just say "don't be dense, everybody knows it." it is a problem; mostly though it's that they present evidence which they consider to be adequate, and others do not. And it's well documented that most people have poor judgment in general, unsurprisingly of course, judging things well is hard. it's a bit harder of course here, because many issues have been gone over so thoroughly previously, that there's more of a presumption that the issue has been covered. I'm assuming you didn't have any more specific question of me christian. Nah, I'm mostly just confused by the fact that even the people in the thread most critical of Hillary aren't more eager to discuss the particulars of her various faults and scandals. Surely a discussion trying to pin down exactly how corrupt she is and exactly what she's guilty of would be a welcome conversation if you don't like her. I wonder if there would be a way to graph how approval rating of the candidates changes with information level of he person being polled. My guess would be that Trump's approval rating basically monotonically decreases with information level, while Hillary has something of an uncanny valley effect (i.e. on the surface she looks good, then she seems awful when you hear about a bunch of scandals, then when you actually learn the details of those scandals she doesn't look quite as bad anymore. But of course, my guess isn't worth much since I'm biased in one candidate's favor. well, based on your postings, style, assessments, and presentation; I'd say it's pretty clear that if one of the people who thinks hillary is corrupt went over everything with you in great detail, it wouldn't suffice to change your mind. By now, many of us also have a good sense of whether someone is convinceable or not, as we've seen enough new/intermittent people come into the thread and dealt with them. Is there someone you can think of that you'd describe as "convinceable"? I haven't been following the thread as long as a lot of you, but I don't remember ever seeing someone "convinced" by the discussion to start supporting the other candidate. If that's the measure of the usefulness of a discussion, I don't know there's virtually any point in discussing politics.
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I didn't follow any news today and just tried to catch up with things right now and I'm super confused here.
On Reddit there's people basically arguing that the FBI is with Russia?
What the hell is happening on Hillary's twitter account? It's gone completely crazy and there's a barrage of retarded messages. I'm worried those can't look good to people and I can't really see what strategy the PR guys had in mind when they composed those.
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FBI Director James Comey privately argued against having his bureau sign onto a statement saying the Russian government was meddling in the U.S. election, CNBC first reported on Monday, citing “a former FBI official.”
A source familiar with the interagency discussions confirms to The Huffington Post that Comey declined to do so because, specifically, he was concerned the statement was coming too close to the election. The source who spoke to HuffPost is not a former FBI official and spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters.
The statement that Comey declined to sign off on ultimately went forward anyway. On Oct. 7, the Department of Homeland Security and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence stated: “The U.S. intelligence community is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of emails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations.”
But Comey’s decision to keep the FBI off the statement ― out of concern for the electoral impact it might have ― has taken on new significance in light of his handling of a separate matter involving Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.
Last Friday, the FBI director sent a letter to Congress alerting lawmakers to the discovery of a computer that has material that may or may not be pertinent to the investigation into Clinton’s use of private email. In a separate letter to FBI colleagues, Comey stressed that he understood the sensitivity in making such an announcement so close to the election, but felt it was in the public’s interest to hear about the potential breakthrough and worried the discovery would have leaked prior to Election Day.
Comey has been subsequently criticized ― by Democrats, ex-prosecutors and even some Republicans ― for violating protocol that says Department of Justice officials should generally avoid making these types of announcements so close to an election.
One difference between the Russia statement and the Clinton investigation is that Comey had previously kept Congress abreast about the latter while declining to discuss the former. Thus, he may have felt an obligation to continue to update lawmakers on the status of the investigation.
Comey and Attorney General Loretta Lynch said on Monday that they are working quickly to sift through the newly discovered emails, which were found on the laptop of Anthony Weiner, a former congressman and the estranged husband of longtime Clinton aide Huma Abedin. Weiner is under federal investigation for allegations that he traded sexually explicit messages with an underage girl.
In a hastily assembled conference call on Monday, the Clinton campaign attacked Comey forcefully for what it deemed a “double standard” when it came to disclosing information prior to an election.
Source
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On November 01 2016 08:28 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2016 08:08 CannonsNCarriers wrote:On November 01 2016 08:03 LegalLord wrote:On November 01 2016 07:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:On November 01 2016 07:38 LegalLord wrote: So... where is this elusive sexism in your long Hillary-defending diatribe? I feel that it is important to remind you that that is what we really were talking about here. You mean people getting mad at a successful woman candidate for trumped up reasons they can't prove is not sexism to you? Um... no? Even if that were a fair characterization the answer would still be no. What about her in-authenticity? How about how she just isn't charismatic enough? And why didn't she stand up to Bill when he was a cheater? (she probably couldn't please her man, just like Huma) What about her bizarrely close relationship with Huma? Why doesn't she smile enough? Have you ever laughed at one of her jokes? She doesn't look presidential to you, does she? Why is she so easily bought by donors? I can't tell if this is serious or in jest
That is because each of those lines has been earnestly said by some Trumpkin or FOX news commentator at some point during this election. I didn't make those up, I am recalling them from memory. If I had the patience I could find a cite for them all. To be clear, I think HRC is subject to sexist questions like these on a regular basis in a way that a man would never be subject to such questioning.
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On November 01 2016 09:05 Ropid wrote: I didn't follow any news today and just tried to catch up with things right now and I'm super confused here.
On Reddit there's people basically arguing that the FBI is with Russia?
What the hell is happening on Hillary's twitter account? It's gone completely crazy and there's a barrage of retarded messages. I'm worried those can't look good to people and I can't really see what strategy the PR guys had in mind when they composed those. the news today didn't enlighten much; those reddit people are crazy, as usual for reddit. I haven't heard about hillary's twitter account; people haven't discussed much today in here.
ChristianS -> I'm not sure I can name anyone offhand, though there are people who've moderated their position somewhat based on info. The big question of course is whether any lurkers changed their mind, can never tell about that. On occasion people do come in with a very enquiring aattitude who really don't seem aware of things, and when presented with new evidence they change their mind somewhat quite visibly.
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On November 01 2016 07:48 oneofthem wrote:+ Show Spoiler +a lasting impact of the bernie situation is the split between the activist left and the democratic party.
the left flank was sort of a cold war in more tranquil times, but the pressure's been building. going deeper into how the revolutionary left sees the world, it is not really about party politics but social change, specifically changing a system that is viewed as dominated by wealth and power. this sort of 'society is composed of adversarial groups at cross interests' view is classically revolutionary, not just marxist. on the left, more and more has been subjected to this transformation from politics to class struggle. this is a change from a policy centric view to a class centric view.
now, everyone has policy ideas and everyone thinks certain people are really bad. to give meaning to policy centric and class centric, i should refine the definitions so that the former focus on specific policy problems when trying to explain why bad things happen, while the latter blames someone. policy based thinking in politics is a functionalist sort, agents are effects of rules, even morally culpable 'bad actors' are a problem to be controlled. the more personal sort of view of this second group is that a group of evil force exists, and that is something the people should fight against. undeniably, behind every bad policy is a political opponent whom we might call bad, but this group is defined in terms of class based properties like wealth and line of work, the demonization is a bit too rough edged and deal in large groups like wall street, billionaires, politicians.
we might call it populism, but it is really about a view of society as composed of adversarial and conflicting group level entities. this class based view is hungry for the rhetoric of class struggle constantly drummed up by sanders. his appeal is purely one of willingness to engage in this sort of crass, group conflict rhetoric that a lot of people believe in. this is also why people think bernie has all the policies, because their idea of policy is defined by their group conflict view of society, instead of how the process actually works. when sanders is talking about corporations, wall street, that to people are the issues and the policy.
this transformation from "fixing the system" to "revolution" is not captured by the general description of the sanders phenomenon, that of a dissatisfied electorate. the framing shift from an american sense of "politics" as collective decisionmaking to the revolutionary model of class conflict, more than behavioralist description of wellbeing, is more instructive.
this is why the democrats who look at politics as a collection of policy and rules are so caught off guard by the fever swamp hatred for HRC. policy-wise, she is certainly acutely aware of the problems that people have about inequality and stagnant wages. the focus on equality is there.
a lot of people have all identified why she is susceptible. the enthusiasm for war against the evil forces is underestimated. viewed as opportunistic and power hungry, traits that looks especially stark and vile on a woman, negative associations just stick better on HRC. but few have pointed out the continuity between the type of attack used against her in the primaries and by trump, ones invoking wall street, elites and insiderness. the clear commonality is that there is real bloodthirst for revolution in a large part of the country due to political radicalization on both sides, so that guilt by association is just a fact.
the center, defined as recognizing stability and sustainability in function as necessary conditions, is not something with a lot of advocates. certainly not on the activist left which is responsible for producing a lot of social media propagated propaganda material. that hose has been turned against HRC this cycle, hence her low positive rating, which is a combination between left and right radicals.
it's not a permanent thing of course. a lot of people harbor resentments and they pass when personal circumstances improve or their perception of how things are going improve. it's just that HRC is uniquely vulnerable to indulgence of this resentment, and the other side was extremely willing to exploit it while being naive about the harms, not only to general election but to general quality of politics.
why is the activist left important? because they produce a lot of influence content, and you need that stuff to generate enthusiasm. it is also important because political energy and the wielder of that energy need each other. blind revolutionary zeal will be disastrous, and inattentive leadership is also disastrous, mostly in producing the former. this relationship needs to function well, and it is the difference between ending up in a nordic system or in venezuela.
the dangerous thing that's changed is the media consumption. Usually the class war/race war/whatever war people are as loud as they are populous, nowadays they dominate the discourse and drown out everybody else. It completely distorts how politicians appeal to the population.
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On November 01 2016 09:09 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2016 09:05 Ropid wrote: I didn't follow any news today and just tried to catch up with things right now and I'm super confused here.
On Reddit there's people basically arguing that the FBI is with Russia?
What the hell is happening on Hillary's twitter account? It's gone completely crazy and there's a barrage of retarded messages. I'm worried those can't look good to people and I can't really see what strategy the PR guys had in mind when they composed those. the news today didn't enlighten much; those reddit people are crazy, as usual for reddit. I haven't heard about hillary's twitter account; people haven't discussed much today in here. ChristianS -> I'm not sure I can name anyone offhand, though there are people who've moderated their position somewhat based on info. The big question of course is whether any lurkers changed their mind, can never tell about that. On occasion people do come in with a very enquiring aattitude who really don't seem aware of things, and when presented with new evidence they change their mind somewhat quite visibly.
I was a Bernie supporter until the debates. I was not vocal until much later, but reading the discussions on this thread definitely swayed me away from Bernie almost as much as Bernie fucking up every chance he had to fix himself.
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Just a little light treason from Trump. Suddenly the emails don't seem like such a big issue.
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The sexism question re. attitudes to Clinton is a complicated one. I am almost certain that there will be people out there who are explicitly against Clinton as a president because she is a woman (though I suspect that most of them would vote Republican anyway). I am also almost certain that there will be people out there whose negative opinions of Clinton are tainted very little or not at all by her gender.
That being said... that isn't the point, really. A more interesting question is "is the average attitude, or the general trend, less favourable to Clinton because she is a woman", and I think that is a very difficult question to answer. I am not certain it is true, and if it is true I do not know to what degree, but I don't think that question is worth as much scorn as LegalLord in particular has poured on it.
To take a specific example where I would be surprised if Clinton's gender did not affect her chances, I think that her presentation and demeanour in the debates was viewed by most people through a far different lens than a man in the same position would be viewed. For instance I imagine that a man would find it much easier to convince people that his reactions and demeanour were genuine than Clinton (or any other woman) would, on average.
Then again, there's an argument to be made that for some voters Clinton's gender is actually an advantage.
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On November 01 2016 09:19 Jaaaaasper wrote: Just a little light treason from Trump. Suddenly the emails don't seem like such a big issue. nowhere near sufficient information to reach that conclusion imho.
also, much as it is fun, I try to avoid using "treason"
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On November 01 2016 09:05 Ropid wrote: I didn't follow any news today and just tried to catch up with things right now and I'm super confused here.
On Reddit there's people basically arguing that the FBI is with Russia?
What the hell is happening on Hillary's twitter account? It's gone completely crazy and there's a barrage of retarded messages. I'm worried those can't look good to people and I can't really see what strategy the PR guys had in mind when they composed those. I noticed the tweet storm also. It doesn't really matter because that twitter account gets less attention (Trump is much more engaging on social media than her) and it doesn't end up in the news because almost no tweets come from her personally. But it's just about staying in control in the wake of the email update, reminding people of the campaign's greatest hits.
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If this salon story about a private Trump server communicating with a Putin prop-up Russian bank at times of political news ends up getting post-scooped by NYT-which it might be-and gets some juicy FBI leaks to bulk it up, I think this might actually be a big deal. Or at least something for the news to bloop around rather than the non-news we'll get about the Huma laptop.
Tinfoil hat says Comey wrote the letter specifically so that others under him would leak info about ongoing Trump/Russia ties. 72D Mah-jong.
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On November 01 2016 09:21 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2016 09:19 Jaaaaasper wrote: Just a little light treason from Trump. Suddenly the emails don't seem like such a big issue. nowhere near sufficient information to reach that conclusion imho. also, much as it is fun, I try to avoid using "treason" Technically working with a foreign power we aren't at war against is sedition, but the AD refference is too much fun to not make.
Also the FBI is completely losing all control of itself at this point. Leaks are flying all over the place, Comey has to get canned for this.
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On November 01 2016 09:21 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2016 09:19 Jaaaaasper wrote: Just a little light treason from Trump. Suddenly the emails don't seem like such a big issue. nowhere near sufficient information to reach that conclusion imho. also, much as it is fun, I try to avoid using "treason"
Treason is a super touchy word that changes in meaning depending on how close to losing a war a nation is.
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On November 01 2016 09:24 TheTenthDoc wrote: If this salon story about a private Trump server communicating with a Putin prop-up Russian bank at times of political news ends up getting post-scooped by NYT-which it might be-and gets some juicy FBI leaks to bulk it up, I think this might actually be a big deal. Or at least something for the news to bloop around rather than the non-news we'll get about the Huma laptop.
Tinfoil hat says Comey wrote the letter specifically so that others under him would leak info about ongoing Trump/Russia ties. 72D Mah-jong. That's less tinfoil hat-ty than it seems at first glance, I think. Comey seemed far too competent prior to these past few days to get pulled into the storm like this.
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I feel really bad for comey though. For all the shit hes going to get for releasing the info about reopening the investigation 11 days before the election he'd be much worse off for releasing that after the election.
And all this started with the conversation between bill clinton and the AG at the airport. He wanted to provide transparency about the process with the impropriety implied by the AG. But he couldn't just go back on that now that more information has come to light after the weiner investigation found more emails. By saying that he wouldn't recommend charges back then he was forced to say that he was reopening the investigation when the new information came no matter how asinine it is.
Crazy election would end with a crazy set of circumstances.
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On November 01 2016 09:33 Sermokala wrote: I feel really bad for comey though. For all the shit hes going to get for releasing the info about reopening the investigation 11 days before the election he'd be much worse off for releasing that after the election.
And all this started with the conversation between bill clinton and the AG at the airport. He wanted to provide transparency about the process with the impropriety implied by the AG. But he couldn't just go back on that now that more information has come to light after the weiner investigation found more emails. By saying that he wouldn't recommend charges back then he was forced to say that he was reopening the investigation when the new information came no matter how asinine it is.
Crazy election would end with a crazy set of circumstances. Comey has lost credibility and lost control of the FBI. He fucked up hard with his handling of all of this
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On November 01 2016 09:30 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2016 09:24 TheTenthDoc wrote: If this salon story about a private Trump server communicating with a Putin prop-up Russian bank at times of political news ends up getting post-scooped by NYT-which it might be-and gets some juicy FBI leaks to bulk it up, I think this might actually be a big deal. Or at least something for the news to bloop around rather than the non-news we'll get about the Huma laptop.
Tinfoil hat says Comey wrote the letter specifically so that others under him would leak info about ongoing Trump/Russia ties. 72D Mah-jong. That's less tinfoil hat-ty than it seems at first glance, I think. Comey seemed far too competent prior to these past few days to get pulled into the storm like this.
Comey's reasoning is quite simple and doesn't require such conspiracy theories. Agents from the FBI notified him about emails on Huma/Weiner's laptop. What they found and what they told Comey is complete speculation, but it must have been something. Comey can now either notify congress or risk a leak and get flamed later on. He gets slammed in both instances, but when he notifies congress he fulfills his own requirements for integrity and transparency. He has shown throughout his entire career that integrity is his top priority, and transparency is a unique element in this situation because of Lynch's fuck ups. Honestly I feel bad for him, Lynch's incompetence has brought us here, she is a partisan hack.
As far as the russian investigation, why would Comey notify anyone about that until it is complete? He never testified under oath that there is even an investigation there to begin with, so he can follow standard protocol for that one, if it exists.
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