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On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Military service definitely doesn't mean "nothing". There's a lot of money, opportunities, and stability that's given up when you enter the service, particularly if you enter during a time of conflict.
That said, our society worships the military a little bit too much.
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Military service definitely doesn't mean "nothing". There's a lot of money, opportunities, and stability that's given up when you enter the service, particularly if you enter during a time of conflict.
That said, our society worships the military a little bit too much.
I don't how giving up those things makes someone more qualified to be president. Someone doing something selfless does not give them qualifications to be president. I could see how being a high ranking general or something would give you a lot of experience dealing with our countries and require an understanding of foreign policy. But being a marine? No.
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Military service definitely doesn't mean "nothing". There's a lot of money, opportunities, and stability that's given up when you enter the service, particularly if you enter during a time of conflict.
That said, our society worships the military a little bit too much.
I don't how giving up those things makes someone more qualified to be president. Someone doing something selfless does not give them qualifications to be president. I could see how being a high ranking general or something would give you a lot of experience dealing with our countries and require an understanding of foreign policy. But being a marine? No.
As a service member myself, I definitely value when the people making direct and concrete decisions about if I'm going to go to war or not or even what my standard of living will be like actually know what it's like to be in the service in the first place.
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Really means nothing? Tell that to PTSD victims and people who put their life on the line because of geopolitical nonsense. How can you demean what soldiers do so easily?
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Really means nothing? Tell that to PTSD victims and people who put their life on the line because of geopolitical nonsense. How can you demean what soldiers do so easily?
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Military service definitely doesn't mean "nothing". There's a lot of money, opportunities, and stability that's given up when you enter the service, particularly if you enter during a time of conflict.
That said, our society worships the military a little bit too much.
I don't how giving up those things makes someone more qualified to be president. Someone doing something selfless does not give them qualifications to be president. I could see how being a high ranking general or something would give you a lot of experience dealing with our countries and require an understanding of foreign policy. But being a marine? No.
As a service member myself, I definitely value when the people making direct and concrete decisions about if I'm going to go to war or not or even what my standard of living will be like actually know what it's like to be in the service in the first place.
Do you not think it is possible for people to understand the policy involved with service members (PTSD support, medical care, psychological care generally speaking, career placement and preparedness) without serving themselves? I know that for people who served, it's a really emotional thing. But I think its questionable that someone needs to serve themselves in order to be capable of grasping the issues facing the military.
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Really means nothing? Tell that to PTSD victims and people who put their life on the line because of geopolitical nonsense. How can you demean what soldiers do so easily?
I'm not demeaning anything. I'm saying that when I look at the list of job functions done by a president, being a marine offers little to check the boxes. There is a certain amount of bravery etc, but that is not something that increases someone's ability to be president.
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Really means nothing? Tell that to PTSD victims and people who put their life on the line because of geopolitical nonsense. How can you demean what soldiers do so easily?
He meant "as qualification for presidency".
Don't strawman him so much.
Yeah, thanks. Lazy wording on my part. It means nothing with respect to a president's job functions.
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Military service definitely doesn't mean "nothing". There's a lot of money, opportunities, and stability that's given up when you enter the service, particularly if you enter during a time of conflict.
That said, our society worships the military a little bit too much.
I don't how giving up those things makes someone more qualified to be president. Someone doing something selfless does not give them qualifications to be president. I could see how being a high ranking general or something would give you a lot of experience dealing with our countries and require an understanding of foreign policy. But being a marine? No.
As a service member myself, I definitely value when the people making direct and concrete decisions about if I'm going to go to war or not or even what my standard of living will be like actually know what it's like to be in the service in the first place.
Do you not think it is possible for people to understand the policy involved with service members (PTSD support, medical care, psychological care generally speaking, career placement and preparedness) without serving themselves? I know that for people who served, it's a really emotional thing. But I think its questionable that someone needs to serve themselves in order to be capable of grasping the issues facing the military.
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Really means nothing? Tell that to PTSD victims and people who put their life on the line because of geopolitical nonsense. How can you demean what soldiers do so easily?
I'm not demeaning anything. I'm saying that when I look at the list of job functions done by a president, being a marine offers little to check the boxes. There is a certain amount of bravery etc, but that is not something that increases someone's ability to be president.
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Really means nothing? Tell that to PTSD victims and people who put their life on the line because of geopolitical nonsense. How can you demean what soldiers do so easily?
He meant "as qualification for presidency".
Don't strawman him so much.
Yeah, thanks. Lazy wording on my part. It means nothing with respect to a president's job functions.
It's entirely possible that they can make good decisions for the military. This is often the case since only 1% of the population ever serves.
However, you just summarily dismissed any benefit that military service gives to being an elected official, when that seems pretty absurd. It doesn't automatically make someone qualified to be president, but it's one thing that can be a boon to an individual that is pursuing an elected position
You don't need on-the-job experience to necessarily qualify you for any job in the first place, but having that experience can definitely make you a better candidate for the job.
On October 10 2016 00:41 Mohdoo wrote: Do you not think it is possible for people to understand the policy involved with service members (PTSD support, medical care, psychological care generally speaking, career placement and preparedness) without serving themselves? I know that for people who served, it's a really emotional thing. But I think its questionable that someone needs to serve themselves in order to be capable of grasping the issues facing the military.
It's certainly possible yes, but I'd much rather have a boss who has the perspective and experience of serving than someone good at imagining it. That said, it wasn't a big enough difference to vote McCain over Obama for me.
Sad stuff, I look forward to the day when being openly atheist isn't political suicide in the US (or in Romania for that matter)
I mean, I knew being an atheist is political suicide but wow.
The bible belt is strong in this country.
I feel a lot of people on the internet fail to understand this aspect of politics. And why politicians like Tim Kaine are so important to the democrats because he represents the christian left. Far more secular and who can speak to the religious section of the country and work with them.
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Military service definitely doesn't mean "nothing". There's a lot of money, opportunities, and stability that's given up when you enter the service, particularly if you enter during a time of conflict.
That said, our society worships the military a little bit too much.
I don't how giving up those things makes someone more qualified to be president. Someone doing something selfless does not give them qualifications to be president. I could see how being a high ranking general or something would give you a lot of experience dealing with our countries and require an understanding of foreign policy. But being a marine? No.
I don't see these questions as 'What is most important for a candidate' but as a 'If the candidates were completely identical except for X'. In that case the candidate that served shows a different mentality. A willingness to 'sacrifice' for his country by risking his life to defend its interests. I can certainly see why people would consider that favorably compared to unfavorable or meaningless.
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Really means nothing? Tell that to PTSD victims and people who put their life on the line because of geopolitical nonsense. How can you demean what soldiers do so easily?
He meant "as qualification for presidency".
Don't strawman him so much.
It's a pretty good indicator of patriotism. If you were willing to die for your country, then its more likely that the motive to be president is out of love for country rather than fame or power. Does it speak to the competence of a future president? Of course not.
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Military service definitely doesn't mean "nothing". There's a lot of money, opportunities, and stability that's given up when you enter the service, particularly if you enter during a time of conflict.
That said, our society worships the military a little bit too much.
I don't how giving up those things makes someone more qualified to be president. Someone doing something selfless does not give them qualifications to be president. I could see how being a high ranking general or something would give you a lot of experience dealing with our countries and require an understanding of foreign policy. But being a marine? No.
As a service member myself, I definitely value when the people making direct and concrete decisions about if I'm going to go to war or not or even what my standard of living will be like actually know what it's like to be in the service in the first place.
Do you not think it is possible for people to understand the policy involved with service members (PTSD support, medical care, psychological care generally speaking, career placement and preparedness) without serving themselves? I know that for people who served, it's a really emotional thing. But I think its questionable that someone needs to serve themselves in order to be capable of grasping the issues facing the military.
On October 10 2016 00:37 Incognoto wrote:
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Really means nothing? Tell that to PTSD victims and people who put their life on the line because of geopolitical nonsense. How can you demean what soldiers do so easily?
I'm not demeaning anything. I'm saying that when I look at the list of job functions done by a president, being a marine offers little to check the boxes. There is a certain amount of bravery etc, but that is not something that increases someone's ability to be president.
On October 10 2016 00:41 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On October 10 2016 00:37 Incognoto wrote:
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Really means nothing? Tell that to PTSD victims and people who put their life on the line because of geopolitical nonsense. How can you demean what soldiers do so easily?
He meant "as qualification for presidency".
Don't strawman him so much.
Yeah, thanks. Lazy wording on my part. It means nothing with respect to a president's job functions.
It's entirely possible that they can make good decisions for the military. This is often the case since only 1% of the population ever serves.
However, you just summarily dismissed any benefit that military service gives to being an elected official, when that seems pretty absurd. It doesn't automatically make someone qualified to be president, but it's one thing that can be a boon to an individual that is pursuing an elected position
You don't need on-the-job experience to necessarily qualify you for any job in the first place, but having that experience can definitely make you a better candidate for the job.
I think there is a benefit, but I am not convinced there is a *unique* benefit. I think someone can grow a lot stronger both in teams and as an individual, push yourself and all the other benefits of serving in the military. But I am more so talking about unique benefits that you don't get somewhere else. Secretary of state? Qualifies you for prison, for example. Joking aside, I just think the benefits are overstated for emotional reasons.
I have a lot of respect for the very few ex-military people who aren't warmongers. They can make for very good leaders.
That said, while experience can benefit you, it can also give you tunnel vision. As with many other qualifications, military service is respected, but neither strictly necessary nor strictly positive. I can't agree with Mohdoo's almost dismissive tone towards the military, but the general premise that military service isn't always what it is made out to be is correct.
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Really means nothing? Tell that to PTSD victims and people who put their life on the line because of geopolitical nonsense. How can you demean what soldiers do so easily?
He meant "as qualification for presidency".
Don't strawman him so much.
It's a pretty good indicator of patriotism. If you were willing to die for your country, then you can infer a motive to be president out of love for your country rather than fame or power. Does it speak to the competence of a future president? Of course not.
that leaves open the question of whether it's the good or bad kind of patriotism. overall though; i'm fine with considering it a very mild positive factor, as long as other equivalent forms of service also get the same boost.
On October 10 2016 00:16 Mohdoo wrote: It is depressing how much people value military service. It really means nothing. If someone was a high ranking military official, maybe.
Really means nothing? Tell that to PTSD victims and people who put their life on the line because of geopolitical nonsense. How can you demean what soldiers do so easily?
He meant "as qualification for presidency".
Don't strawman him so much.
It's a pretty good indicator of patriotism. If you were willing to die for your country, then you can infer a motive to be president out of love for your country rather than fame or power. Does it speak to the competence of a future president? Of course not.
Service doesn't automatically denote patriotism and a willingness to die for one's country.
Sure, it's a sacrifice, and it often means something to that effect, but there are plenty of instances where it doesn't.
I think there is a benefit, but I am not convinced there is a *unique* benefit. I think someone can grow a lot stronger both in teams and as an individual, push yourself and all the other benefits of serving in the military. But I am more so talking about unique benefits that you don't get somewhere else. Secretary of state? Qualifies you for prison, for example. Joking aside, I just think the benefits are overstated for emotional reasons.
This is what I entirely agree with. There are definite benefits for a would-be-politician having served in the military, but it's not a game changer. Our culture worships the military entirely too much, especially with how ethically questionable a lot of the actual institution is.
Also, just a reminder when people talk about a rigged system, remember is was the GOP that did this:
That is a map of voting districts for Ohio.
On October 10 2016 00:55 LegalLord wrote: I have a lot of respect for the very few ex-military people who aren't warmongers. They can make for very good leaders.
That said, while experience can benefit you, it can also give you tunnel vision. As with many other qualifications, military service is respected, but neither strictly necessary nor strictly positive. I can't agree with Mohdoo's almost dismissive tone towards the military, but the general premise that military service isn't always what it is made out to be is correct.
It is one of the reasons I liked McCain as a Republican. He always seemed to understand the need for strong foreign policy, but gave the impression that he pumped to go to war.
Ive still been waiting the past 30 pages (reading most every post) for someone to actually explain what makes Hilary corrupt. I mean I know all the scandals and have looked closely at them for both sides but the problem with hers is the closer you look the more it just looks like a whole bunch of nothing and no one has given me a scandal that did not turn out to be a whole bunch of nothing.
EPT![[image loading]](http://theparagraph.com/files/pics/ohioCongressionalMap.png)
