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On October 03 2016 12:22 Plansix wrote:Because she is the type of person that Trump's style of populism and celebrity draws out. Trump believes some of the bullshit she believes. He bought into the birther non-sense and I doubt it really ends with that. Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 12:21 GoTuNk! wrote:On October 03 2016 12:13 zlefin wrote:
Why were they interested in the PoV of a crazy person?
I mean, there's plenty of people who support trump with fewer signs of clinical insanity; so it can't be about representative trump supporter-ness. So people like Plansix can say that is the average Trump supporter, and wallow further in their narrative. I've heard the audio from Trump rallies. I've seen the news. There are enough of them for me to be concerned. Trump's power is that he is a con-artist and tells people what they want to hear. To this woman, he is going to save her. To David Duke, he is taking back America for white people by deporting all the illegal immigrants. To the person who can't think of voting for Hilary, he is a guy who will hire good people to advise him and he won't be that bad.
She may be voting for Trump, but he didn't exactly draw her out. She was already politically active according to the first sentence j of your quote. Pointing at the crazy fringe people and acting as if they're mainstream doesn't do anyone any favours.
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That's right, but you do realize that the pages she uses, the facebook stories she reads, they are there and they have millions of visitors. She is probably one in thousands regarding how severe her delusions are, but there are still millions of Americans that believe Obama is a muslim African. That alone is worrying.
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On October 03 2016 18:49 Broetchenholer wrote:
That's right, but you do realize that the pages she uses, the facebook stories she reads, they are there and they have millions of visitors. She is probably one in thousands regarding how severe her delusions are, but there are still millions of Americans that believe Obama is a muslim African. That alone is worrying.
Sure, but the Obama is a muslim rumour was kicked into high gear by Hillary Clintons 2008 campaign when her team released a photo of obama in kenya in traditional dress.
Guardian here : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/feb/25/barackobama.hillaryclinton
Read the entire article you'll see a junior Clinton staffer resigned after sending out emails claiming Obama was muslim.
Whats that one about people in glass houses not throwing stones?
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On October 03 2016 19:09 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 18:49 Broetchenholer wrote:
That's right, but you do realize that the pages she uses, the facebook stories she reads, they are there and they have millions of visitors. She is probably one in thousands regarding how severe her delusions are, but there are still millions of Americans that believe Obama is a muslim African. That alone is worrying. Sure, but the Obama is a muslim rumour was kicked into high gear by Hillary Clintons 2008 campaign when her team released a photo of obama in kenya in traditional dress. Guardian here : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/feb/25/barackobama.hillaryclintonRead the entire article you'll see a junior Clinton staffer resigned after sending out emails claiming Obama was muslim. Whats that one about people in glass houses not throwing stones?
The person that was forced to resign (in December 2007) was a volunteer in one Iowa county, not a staffer on the campaign payroll. The campaign immediately shut it down when she forwarded the e-mail. Also, with regards to the photo of Obama in a traditional dress, it's Drudge that claimed it received it from the Clinton campaign, offering no evidence. And even if someone in the campaign did send it to them, if you don't see the difference between a lone staffer in a large campaign doing something like this and the presidential nominee himself engaging in a five-year campaign to cast doubt on Obama's citizenship, announcing that he intends to discriminate against Muslims and targeting them repeatedly with his hate speech, that means you're just not interested in reality but instead in fabricating false equivalences.
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On October 03 2016 19:42 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 19:09 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On October 03 2016 18:49 Broetchenholer wrote:
That's right, but you do realize that the pages she uses, the facebook stories she reads, they are there and they have millions of visitors. She is probably one in thousands regarding how severe her delusions are, but there are still millions of Americans that believe Obama is a muslim African. That alone is worrying. Sure, but the Obama is a muslim rumour was kicked into high gear by Hillary Clintons 2008 campaign when her team released a photo of obama in kenya in traditional dress. Guardian here : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/feb/25/barackobama.hillaryclintonRead the entire article you'll see a junior Clinton staffer resigned after sending out emails claiming Obama was muslim. Whats that one about people in glass houses not throwing stones? that means you're just not interested in reality but instead in fabricating false equivalences.
NettleS in a nutshell.
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On October 03 2016 14:30 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'? You're talking about a group of people -- a large group -- who have been maligned and marginalized in pretty much every way imaginable: economically, culturally, and religiously. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that this group is now lashing out. On October 03 2016 15:00 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 14:43 Nyxisto wrote:On October 03 2016 14:30 xDaunt wrote:On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'? You're talking about a group of people -- a large group -- who have been maligned and marginalized in pretty much every way imaginable: economically, culturally, and religiously. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that this group is now lashing out. Imagine every group in America that has had it hard would lash out like this. You'd live in a permanent riot. And these people are 'only' facing economic hardship, much of it due to how they've run their states and communities themselves. And they've still got a black guy in the white house who gives a fuck about them although they don't even acknowledge that he's American. I don't think that's reasonable at all. Yeah, you clearly don't understand the magnitude of the problem at all.
man I had to doublecheck context and name to make sure it's not GH.
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I would like to see some statistics or research on this 'cultural marginalization' concept before I accept it is anything other than white people being annoyed at people of color getting closer to having equal rights and participation.
My brother is the type of person to vote for someone like Trump (Wilders) and his examples typically are that Polish and Turkish people dominate at the low-paying work he does -- which includes the annoyance of having to communicate in German or English with such colleagues, and an inability to find work because he has higher standards for wages and opportunities compared to people from Poland that are here as seasonal workers.
And he complains that at the places where he lives there are a lot of people of different ethnicity and so on.
But in my opinion the shared factor here is that my brother never finished his education because instead he would play video games and never really tried to succeed at finding work, so now that he is in his mid-twenties he suddenly finds himself in, say, a class of poor people somewhat at the margins of society which includes a lot of immigrants or Muslims etc. and I think he somehow blames them for his misfortune and he thinks that if they weren't there he would have more chances or so. He also is very prone to complain about "my tax money" going to people on welfare even though he himself was on welfare for ages. But he thinks the system was fair to him, but that some people abuse it, but the people that abuse it tend to always be these exaggerated examples of immigrants mooching off the system which I don't think is that rooted in reality or that relevant.
It reminds me of the US civil war idea that the existence of black people in slavery guarantees the superiority of even the lowest class white person.
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On May 14 2015 23:02 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2015 22:22 Mercy13 wrote:
Anyway, back to the racial issue. While it is hard to separate the effects of racism out from other causes of disparate results in the justice system, it is very easy to show that people tend to be racist. Is it so hard to believe that people with power and authority will act on these tendencies to the detriment of certain groups? Even if you don't think that racism is the primary cause of disparate results in the justice system, isn't it still worth talking about as a significant cause? Lastly, I seem to recall creating a giant shitstorm when I dared suggest that the black community has particular internal, cultural problems that need to be sorted out if it ever wanted to climb out of its current demographic abyss. The most common response was that the problems weren't cultural so much as they were socioeconomic. So I ask again here: do black people have the problems that they're having because they're buried in racism or because they're buried so low on the socioeconomic totem pole? If y'all want to be honest with yourselves, you have to say the latter, meaning that addressing the socioeconomic issues is far more important than focusing on the red herring of racism. The only way that you can plausibly argue that racism is the issue is if you adopt stupidly expansive definition of racism for the purpose of arguing that racism today is perpetuating black poverty. Good luck with that.
On August 21 2014 13:23 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2014 13:16 bookwyrm wrote:On August 21 2014 12:20 xDaunt wrote:On August 21 2014 11:28 bookwyrm wrote:
It's really not the same, xDaunt. It's not good, but the Atlantic slave trade is really a whole nother thing. Chinese laborers would go back and forth between China and the West Coast (even during the exclusion act). They maintained ties with their homes throughout the entire process (and the Chinese as a people have a long history of extended expatriate networks, it's sort of a specialty). There was no wholesale severing of cultural continuity, not even close. I've heard lots of explanations, and none of them has been satisfactory. This cultural tie with the homeland thing is a new one though. Why does it matter? More to the point, why does it matter two centuries after such ties were severed? Oh, it matters a ton. The slave populations underwent a period of forced de-culturation. They were imported singly with completely severed ties to the their families, were forcibly assimilated to a "black" population composed of completely different african ethnicities, forbidden from speaking their native languages, Christianized, forbidden from acquiring literacy... By contrast, the Chinese laborers who came here maintained ties with their ancestral villages, often returned to China one or more times, were not forcibly Christianized or prevented from speaking Chinese, practicing Chinese customs regarding family structure and so on... the situations are really not even remotely comparable. Being stripped of your cultural heritage is to lose an incredibly valuable resource, even leaving aside the fact that being a part of the Chinese diaspora is a valuable economic asset in itself (this is just how the Chinese have worked for centuries, consider the large expatriate Chinese communities in Southeast Asia, for example). Two centuries is not enough time to redevelop the kind of cultural assets which were violently stripped during middle passage, let alone under the kinds of conditions which blacks have endured in the Americas. There's absolutely nothing comparable about the situations. It's not to say that asian ethnicities haven't been the subject of bigotry or hardship in the US, but it's just on a different level and it's not fair to compare them in some sort of puerile gloating "haha, the asians can do it, so why can't you do it, stupid black people?" Also, China is not Africa. They're completely different places. Let's just presume that you're correct. Doesn't this mean that the black population's problems aren't due to racism -- ie they can't blame whitey for continuing to hold them down? Instead, wouldn't the root problem be the fucked up black culture as good folks such as Bill Cosby argue?
On October 03 2016 14:30 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'? You're talking about a group of people -- a large group -- who have been maligned and marginalized in pretty much every way imaginable: economically, culturally, and religiously. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that this group is now lashing out.
lolol, the lack of self-reflection is startling.
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On October 03 2016 13:03 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 10:21 GoTuNk! wrote:On October 03 2016 10:17 ticklishmusic wrote:
colombian peace deal just failed to pass.
...this makes me worry about the election a bit more To put some context, the deal failed because it involved pardoning the terrorist group, granting them political power, funding and overriding the Colombian constitution. I believe FARC members unconditional surrender is the "peace deal" that should happen; they should face trial for their crimes. Colombia's last president cornered them close to full defeat, that's why they started these negotiations in the first place. Something tells me the CIA doesn't want FARC in a courtroom going into details about their operations and "assistance" in Columbia. Also we don't want our top cocaine supplier to stop supplying our cocaine, we just want it to be cheaper/consistent, so stability is important.
Las FARC is a Left-wing terrorist group that killed thousands of peoples and is currently funded by drug traffic. As I said, in my ideal world they would be hunted down and the only acceptable peace is an unconditional surrender where they are fully dismantled and face trial for their crimes.
Because I understand this has a cost in lives, I'm ok with some sort of agreement to reach peace sooner. But granting them pardon, funding and political power is too much, as the people in Colombia have spoken.
Wathever the CIA has or has not todo with anything is inmaterial. This people should be trialed for a long history of war or terrorist crimes, however you want to put it. And drugs should be decriminalized, but that's another debate.
Can't you simply condemn this categorically evil organization? Or you feel the need to put the blame on something else, like the CIA?
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On October 03 2016 20:50 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2015 23:02 xDaunt wrote:On May 14 2015 22:22 Mercy13 wrote:
Anyway, back to the racial issue. While it is hard to separate the effects of racism out from other causes of disparate results in the justice system, it is very easy to show that people tend to be racist. Is it so hard to believe that people with power and authority will act on these tendencies to the detriment of certain groups? Even if you don't think that racism is the primary cause of disparate results in the justice system, isn't it still worth talking about as a significant cause? Lastly, I seem to recall creating a giant shitstorm when I dared suggest that the black community has particular internal, cultural problems that need to be sorted out if it ever wanted to climb out of its current demographic abyss. The most common response was that the problems weren't cultural so much as they were socioeconomic. So I ask again here: do black people have the problems that they're having because they're buried in racism or because they're buried so low on the socioeconomic totem pole? If y'all want to be honest with yourselves, you have to say the latter, meaning that addressing the socioeconomic issues is far more important than focusing on the red herring of racism. The only way that you can plausibly argue that racism is the issue is if you adopt stupidly expansive definition of racism for the purpose of arguing that racism today is perpetuating black poverty. Good luck with that. Show nested quote +On August 21 2014 13:23 xDaunt wrote:On August 21 2014 13:16 bookwyrm wrote:On August 21 2014 12:20 xDaunt wrote:On August 21 2014 11:28 bookwyrm wrote:
It's really not the same, xDaunt. It's not good, but the Atlantic slave trade is really a whole nother thing. Chinese laborers would go back and forth between China and the West Coast (even during the exclusion act). They maintained ties with their homes throughout the entire process (and the Chinese as a people have a long history of extended expatriate networks, it's sort of a specialty). There was no wholesale severing of cultural continuity, not even close. I've heard lots of explanations, and none of them has been satisfactory. This cultural tie with the homeland thing is a new one though. Why does it matter? More to the point, why does it matter two centuries after such ties were severed? Oh, it matters a ton. The slave populations underwent a period of forced de-culturation. They were imported singly with completely severed ties to the their families, were forcibly assimilated to a "black" population composed of completely different african ethnicities, forbidden from speaking their native languages, Christianized, forbidden from acquiring literacy... By contrast, the Chinese laborers who came here maintained ties with their ancestral villages, often returned to China one or more times, were not forcibly Christianized or prevented from speaking Chinese, practicing Chinese customs regarding family structure and so on... the situations are really not even remotely comparable. Being stripped of your cultural heritage is to lose an incredibly valuable resource, even leaving aside the fact that being a part of the Chinese diaspora is a valuable economic asset in itself (this is just how the Chinese have worked for centuries, consider the large expatriate Chinese communities in Southeast Asia, for example). Two centuries is not enough time to redevelop the kind of cultural assets which were violently stripped during middle passage, let alone under the kinds of conditions which blacks have endured in the Americas. There's absolutely nothing comparable about the situations. It's not to say that asian ethnicities haven't been the subject of bigotry or hardship in the US, but it's just on a different level and it's not fair to compare them in some sort of puerile gloating "haha, the asians can do it, so why can't you do it, stupid black people?" Also, China is not Africa. They're completely different places. Let's just presume that you're correct. Doesn't this mean that the black population's problems aren't due to racism -- ie they can't blame whitey for continuing to hold them down? Instead, wouldn't the root problem be the fucked up black culture as good folks such as Bill Cosby argue? Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 14:30 xDaunt wrote:On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'? You're talking about a group of people -- a large group -- who have been maligned and marginalized in pretty much every way imaginable: economically, culturally, and religiously. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that this group is now lashing out. lolol, the lack of self-reflection is startling.
Not at all surprising, though.
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On October 03 2016 21:29 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 13:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 03 2016 10:21 GoTuNk! wrote:On October 03 2016 10:17 ticklishmusic wrote:
colombian peace deal just failed to pass.
...this makes me worry about the election a bit more To put some context, the deal failed because it involved pardoning the terrorist group, granting them political power, funding and overriding the Colombian constitution. I believe FARC members unconditional surrender is the "peace deal" that should happen; they should face trial for their crimes. Colombia's last president cornered them close to full defeat, that's why they started these negotiations in the first place. Something tells me the CIA doesn't want FARC in a courtroom going into details about their operations and "assistance" in Columbia. Also we don't want our top cocaine supplier to stop supplying our cocaine, we just want it to be cheaper/consistent, so stability is important. Las FARC is a Left-wing terrorist group that killed thousands of peoples and is currently funded by drug traffic. As I said, in my ideal world they would be hunted down and the only acceptable peace is an unconditional surrender where they are fully dismantled and face trial for their crimes. Because I understand this has a cost in lives, I'm ok with some sort of agreement to reach peace sooner. But granting them pardon, funding and political power is too much, as the people in Colombia have spoken. Wathever the CIA has or has not todo with anything is inmaterial. This people should be trialed for a long history of war or terrorist crimes, however you want to put it. And drugs should be decriminalized, but that's another debate. Can't you simply condemn this categorically evil organization? Or you feel the need to put the blame on something else, like the CIA?
Yeah. Dragging the CIA into this seems weird. But the referendum saying no to peace could turn out to be a pretty raw deal for the Colombians.
The problem with "being tough" is that the leadership of FARC has no incentive to agree. While the ceasefire is still in place right now (thank god), that will only last until the FARC leadership gets desperate that there is no way for further peace talks to succeed on their part. It's a really tough problem, because while I sympathize with the Colombian people wanting justice, rejecting the current peace treaty simply increases the chance of prolonged violence. If FARC starts a new offensive of terrorizing villages, hostage taking of tourists, and their other nasty practices, everybody loses.
It all depends on how desperate the FARC leadership is to end this conflict: will a renegotiation where the leaders have to face jail time be accepted? If so, then it's great, and the referendum actually allowed the government to bargain from a stronger position. But if full immunity is an absolute requirement from the FARC leadership and they prefer to retreat back into the jungle and restart the war, then this referendum had the worst possible outcome.
As for other examples where full immunity was granted to some pretty horrific people: IRA and the end of Apartheid are pretty famous examples.
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On October 03 2016 20:50 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2015 23:02 xDaunt wrote:On May 14 2015 22:22 Mercy13 wrote:
Anyway, back to the racial issue. While it is hard to separate the effects of racism out from other causes of disparate results in the justice system, it is very easy to show that people tend to be racist. Is it so hard to believe that people with power and authority will act on these tendencies to the detriment of certain groups? Even if you don't think that racism is the primary cause of disparate results in the justice system, isn't it still worth talking about as a significant cause? Lastly, I seem to recall creating a giant shitstorm when I dared suggest that the black community has particular internal, cultural problems that need to be sorted out if it ever wanted to climb out of its current demographic abyss. The most common response was that the problems weren't cultural so much as they were socioeconomic. So I ask again here: do black people have the problems that they're having because they're buried in racism or because they're buried so low on the socioeconomic totem pole? If y'all want to be honest with yourselves, you have to say the latter, meaning that addressing the socioeconomic issues is far more important than focusing on the red herring of racism. The only way that you can plausibly argue that racism is the issue is if you adopt stupidly expansive definition of racism for the purpose of arguing that racism today is perpetuating black poverty. Good luck with that. Show nested quote +On August 21 2014 13:23 xDaunt wrote:On August 21 2014 13:16 bookwyrm wrote:On August 21 2014 12:20 xDaunt wrote:On August 21 2014 11:28 bookwyrm wrote:
It's really not the same, xDaunt. It's not good, but the Atlantic slave trade is really a whole nother thing. Chinese laborers would go back and forth between China and the West Coast (even during the exclusion act). They maintained ties with their homes throughout the entire process (and the Chinese as a people have a long history of extended expatriate networks, it's sort of a specialty). There was no wholesale severing of cultural continuity, not even close. I've heard lots of explanations, and none of them has been satisfactory. This cultural tie with the homeland thing is a new one though. Why does it matter? More to the point, why does it matter two centuries after such ties were severed? Oh, it matters a ton. The slave populations underwent a period of forced de-culturation. They were imported singly with completely severed ties to the their families, were forcibly assimilated to a "black" population composed of completely different african ethnicities, forbidden from speaking their native languages, Christianized, forbidden from acquiring literacy... By contrast, the Chinese laborers who came here maintained ties with their ancestral villages, often returned to China one or more times, were not forcibly Christianized or prevented from speaking Chinese, practicing Chinese customs regarding family structure and so on... the situations are really not even remotely comparable. Being stripped of your cultural heritage is to lose an incredibly valuable resource, even leaving aside the fact that being a part of the Chinese diaspora is a valuable economic asset in itself (this is just how the Chinese have worked for centuries, consider the large expatriate Chinese communities in Southeast Asia, for example). Two centuries is not enough time to redevelop the kind of cultural assets which were violently stripped during middle passage, let alone under the kinds of conditions which blacks have endured in the Americas. There's absolutely nothing comparable about the situations. It's not to say that asian ethnicities haven't been the subject of bigotry or hardship in the US, but it's just on a different level and it's not fair to compare them in some sort of puerile gloating "haha, the asians can do it, so why can't you do it, stupid black people?" Also, China is not Africa. They're completely different places. Let's just presume that you're correct. Doesn't this mean that the black population's problems aren't due to racism -- ie they can't blame whitey for continuing to hold them down? Instead, wouldn't the root problem be the fucked up black culture as good folks such as Bill Cosby argue? Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 14:30 xDaunt wrote:On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'? You're talking about a group of people -- a large group -- who have been maligned and marginalized in pretty much every way imaginable: economically, culturally, and religiously. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that this group is now lashing out. lolol, the lack of self-reflection is startling.
Good luck pointing out the contradiction in there.
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On October 03 2016 21:57 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 20:50 farvacola wrote:On May 14 2015 23:02 xDaunt wrote:On May 14 2015 22:22 Mercy13 wrote:
Anyway, back to the racial issue. While it is hard to separate the effects of racism out from other causes of disparate results in the justice system, it is very easy to show that people tend to be racist. Is it so hard to believe that people with power and authority will act on these tendencies to the detriment of certain groups? Even if you don't think that racism is the primary cause of disparate results in the justice system, isn't it still worth talking about as a significant cause? Lastly, I seem to recall creating a giant shitstorm when I dared suggest that the black community has particular internal, cultural problems that need to be sorted out if it ever wanted to climb out of its current demographic abyss. The most common response was that the problems weren't cultural so much as they were socioeconomic. So I ask again here: do black people have the problems that they're having because they're buried in racism or because they're buried so low on the socioeconomic totem pole? If y'all want to be honest with yourselves, you have to say the latter, meaning that addressing the socioeconomic issues is far more important than focusing on the red herring of racism. The only way that you can plausibly argue that racism is the issue is if you adopt stupidly expansive definition of racism for the purpose of arguing that racism today is perpetuating black poverty. Good luck with that. On August 21 2014 13:23 xDaunt wrote:On August 21 2014 13:16 bookwyrm wrote:On August 21 2014 12:20 xDaunt wrote:On August 21 2014 11:28 bookwyrm wrote:
It's really not the same, xDaunt. It's not good, but the Atlantic slave trade is really a whole nother thing. Chinese laborers would go back and forth between China and the West Coast (even during the exclusion act). They maintained ties with their homes throughout the entire process (and the Chinese as a people have a long history of extended expatriate networks, it's sort of a specialty). There was no wholesale severing of cultural continuity, not even close. I've heard lots of explanations, and none of them has been satisfactory. This cultural tie with the homeland thing is a new one though. Why does it matter? More to the point, why does it matter two centuries after such ties were severed? Oh, it matters a ton. The slave populations underwent a period of forced de-culturation. They were imported singly with completely severed ties to the their families, were forcibly assimilated to a "black" population composed of completely different african ethnicities, forbidden from speaking their native languages, Christianized, forbidden from acquiring literacy... By contrast, the Chinese laborers who came here maintained ties with their ancestral villages, often returned to China one or more times, were not forcibly Christianized or prevented from speaking Chinese, practicing Chinese customs regarding family structure and so on... the situations are really not even remotely comparable. Being stripped of your cultural heritage is to lose an incredibly valuable resource, even leaving aside the fact that being a part of the Chinese diaspora is a valuable economic asset in itself (this is just how the Chinese have worked for centuries, consider the large expatriate Chinese communities in Southeast Asia, for example). Two centuries is not enough time to redevelop the kind of cultural assets which were violently stripped during middle passage, let alone under the kinds of conditions which blacks have endured in the Americas. There's absolutely nothing comparable about the situations. It's not to say that asian ethnicities haven't been the subject of bigotry or hardship in the US, but it's just on a different level and it's not fair to compare them in some sort of puerile gloating "haha, the asians can do it, so why can't you do it, stupid black people?" Also, China is not Africa. They're completely different places. Let's just presume that you're correct. Doesn't this mean that the black population's problems aren't due to racism -- ie they can't blame whitey for continuing to hold them down? Instead, wouldn't the root problem be the fucked up black culture as good folks such as Bill Cosby argue? On October 03 2016 14:30 xDaunt wrote:On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'? You're talking about a group of people -- a large group -- who have been maligned and marginalized in pretty much every way imaginable: economically, culturally, and religiously. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that this group is now lashing out. lolol, the lack of self-reflection is startling. Good luck pointing out the contradiction in there.
I'd use hypocrisy rather than contradiction, but don't care enough to get into another 50-page shitshow over whether you are racist or not.
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On October 03 2016 21:57 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 20:50 farvacola wrote:On May 14 2015 23:02 xDaunt wrote:On May 14 2015 22:22 Mercy13 wrote:
Anyway, back to the racial issue. While it is hard to separate the effects of racism out from other causes of disparate results in the justice system, it is very easy to show that people tend to be racist. Is it so hard to believe that people with power and authority will act on these tendencies to the detriment of certain groups? Even if you don't think that racism is the primary cause of disparate results in the justice system, isn't it still worth talking about as a significant cause? Lastly, I seem to recall creating a giant shitstorm when I dared suggest that the black community has particular internal, cultural problems that need to be sorted out if it ever wanted to climb out of its current demographic abyss. The most common response was that the problems weren't cultural so much as they were socioeconomic. So I ask again here: do black people have the problems that they're having because they're buried in racism or because they're buried so low on the socioeconomic totem pole? If y'all want to be honest with yourselves, you have to say the latter, meaning that addressing the socioeconomic issues is far more important than focusing on the red herring of racism. The only way that you can plausibly argue that racism is the issue is if you adopt stupidly expansive definition of racism for the purpose of arguing that racism today is perpetuating black poverty. Good luck with that. On August 21 2014 13:23 xDaunt wrote:On August 21 2014 13:16 bookwyrm wrote:On August 21 2014 12:20 xDaunt wrote:On August 21 2014 11:28 bookwyrm wrote:
It's really not the same, xDaunt. It's not good, but the Atlantic slave trade is really a whole nother thing. Chinese laborers would go back and forth between China and the West Coast (even during the exclusion act). They maintained ties with their homes throughout the entire process (and the Chinese as a people have a long history of extended expatriate networks, it's sort of a specialty). There was no wholesale severing of cultural continuity, not even close. I've heard lots of explanations, and none of them has been satisfactory. This cultural tie with the homeland thing is a new one though. Why does it matter? More to the point, why does it matter two centuries after such ties were severed? Oh, it matters a ton. The slave populations underwent a period of forced de-culturation. They were imported singly with completely severed ties to the their families, were forcibly assimilated to a "black" population composed of completely different african ethnicities, forbidden from speaking their native languages, Christianized, forbidden from acquiring literacy... By contrast, the Chinese laborers who came here maintained ties with their ancestral villages, often returned to China one or more times, were not forcibly Christianized or prevented from speaking Chinese, practicing Chinese customs regarding family structure and so on... the situations are really not even remotely comparable. Being stripped of your cultural heritage is to lose an incredibly valuable resource, even leaving aside the fact that being a part of the Chinese diaspora is a valuable economic asset in itself (this is just how the Chinese have worked for centuries, consider the large expatriate Chinese communities in Southeast Asia, for example). Two centuries is not enough time to redevelop the kind of cultural assets which were violently stripped during middle passage, let alone under the kinds of conditions which blacks have endured in the Americas. There's absolutely nothing comparable about the situations. It's not to say that asian ethnicities haven't been the subject of bigotry or hardship in the US, but it's just on a different level and it's not fair to compare them in some sort of puerile gloating "haha, the asians can do it, so why can't you do it, stupid black people?" Also, China is not Africa. They're completely different places. Let's just presume that you're correct. Doesn't this mean that the black population's problems aren't due to racism -- ie they can't blame whitey for continuing to hold them down? Instead, wouldn't the root problem be the fucked up black culture as good folks such as Bill Cosby argue? On October 03 2016 14:30 xDaunt wrote:On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'? You're talking about a group of people -- a large group -- who have been maligned and marginalized in pretty much every way imaginable: economically, culturally, and religiously. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that this group is now lashing out. lolol, the lack of self-reflection is startling. Good luck pointing out the contradiction in there.
Good luck moving the goal posts from hypocrisy to contradiction
e: ninja'd
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On October 03 2016 21:29 GoTuNk! wrote:
Can't you simply condemn this categorically evil organization? Or you feel the need to put the blame on something else, like the CIA?
Look at this Afghanistan chart.The massive drop in 2001 is when the taliban banned opium production.
Current production is around 40 times higher than 2001.
If you wanted to win the war on drugs wouldn't it make sense to cut supply at the source?
Especially if you've invaded said country that produces 97% of the worlds crop?
![[image loading]](http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Opium-Afghanistan-chart.jpg)
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On October 03 2016 22:05 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 21:57 xDaunt wrote:On October 03 2016 20:50 farvacola wrote:On May 14 2015 23:02 xDaunt wrote:On May 14 2015 22:22 Mercy13 wrote:
Anyway, back to the racial issue. While it is hard to separate the effects of racism out from other causes of disparate results in the justice system, it is very easy to show that people tend to be racist. Is it so hard to believe that people with power and authority will act on these tendencies to the detriment of certain groups? Even if you don't think that racism is the primary cause of disparate results in the justice system, isn't it still worth talking about as a significant cause? Lastly, I seem to recall creating a giant shitstorm when I dared suggest that the black community has particular internal, cultural problems that need to be sorted out if it ever wanted to climb out of its current demographic abyss. The most common response was that the problems weren't cultural so much as they were socioeconomic. So I ask again here: do black people have the problems that they're having because they're buried in racism or because they're buried so low on the socioeconomic totem pole? If y'all want to be honest with yourselves, you have to say the latter, meaning that addressing the socioeconomic issues is far more important than focusing on the red herring of racism. The only way that you can plausibly argue that racism is the issue is if you adopt stupidly expansive definition of racism for the purpose of arguing that racism today is perpetuating black poverty. Good luck with that. On August 21 2014 13:23 xDaunt wrote:On August 21 2014 13:16 bookwyrm wrote:On August 21 2014 12:20 xDaunt wrote:On August 21 2014 11:28 bookwyrm wrote:
It's really not the same, xDaunt. It's not good, but the Atlantic slave trade is really a whole nother thing. Chinese laborers would go back and forth between China and the West Coast (even during the exclusion act). They maintained ties with their homes throughout the entire process (and the Chinese as a people have a long history of extended expatriate networks, it's sort of a specialty). There was no wholesale severing of cultural continuity, not even close. I've heard lots of explanations, and none of them has been satisfactory. This cultural tie with the homeland thing is a new one though. Why does it matter? More to the point, why does it matter two centuries after such ties were severed? Oh, it matters a ton. The slave populations underwent a period of forced de-culturation. They were imported singly with completely severed ties to the their families, were forcibly assimilated to a "black" population composed of completely different african ethnicities, forbidden from speaking their native languages, Christianized, forbidden from acquiring literacy... By contrast, the Chinese laborers who came here maintained ties with their ancestral villages, often returned to China one or more times, were not forcibly Christianized or prevented from speaking Chinese, practicing Chinese customs regarding family structure and so on... the situations are really not even remotely comparable. Being stripped of your cultural heritage is to lose an incredibly valuable resource, even leaving aside the fact that being a part of the Chinese diaspora is a valuable economic asset in itself (this is just how the Chinese have worked for centuries, consider the large expatriate Chinese communities in Southeast Asia, for example). Two centuries is not enough time to redevelop the kind of cultural assets which were violently stripped during middle passage, let alone under the kinds of conditions which blacks have endured in the Americas. There's absolutely nothing comparable about the situations. It's not to say that asian ethnicities haven't been the subject of bigotry or hardship in the US, but it's just on a different level and it's not fair to compare them in some sort of puerile gloating "haha, the asians can do it, so why can't you do it, stupid black people?" Also, China is not Africa. They're completely different places. Let's just presume that you're correct. Doesn't this mean that the black population's problems aren't due to racism -- ie they can't blame whitey for continuing to hold them down? Instead, wouldn't the root problem be the fucked up black culture as good folks such as Bill Cosby argue? On October 03 2016 14:30 xDaunt wrote:On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'? You're talking about a group of people -- a large group -- who have been maligned and marginalized in pretty much every way imaginable: economically, culturally, and religiously. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that this group is now lashing out. lolol, the lack of self-reflection is startling. Good luck pointing out the contradiction in there. I'd use hypocrisy rather than contradiction, but don't care enough to get into another 50-page shitshow over whether you are racist or not.
There's nothing hypocritical about those statements. In fact, I'm not even really talking about the same thing in the quoted comments about the black community and my comments about the #deplorables.
On October 03 2016 22:06 Dan HH wrote:
Good luck moving the goal posts from hypocrisy to contradiction
e: ninja'd
You're welcome to join the "failures in reading comprehension bandwagon," too, if you want. There's plenty of room!
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On October 03 2016 22:06 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 21:29 GoTuNk! wrote:
Can't you simply condemn this categorically evil organization? Or you feel the need to put the blame on something else, like the CIA? Look at this Afghanistan chart.The massive drop in 2001 is when the taliban banned opium production. Current production is around 40 times higher than 2001. If you wanted to win the war on drugs wouldn't it make sense to cut supply at the source? Especially if you've invaded said country that produces 97% of the worlds crop?
What? You realize Afghanistan and Colombia have absolutely nothing to do with each other, right?!
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On October 03 2016 22:12 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 22:06 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On October 03 2016 21:29 GoTuNk! wrote:
Can't you simply condemn this categorically evil organization? Or you feel the need to put the blame on something else, like the CIA? Look at this Afghanistan chart.The massive drop in 2001 is when the taliban banned opium production. Current production is around 40 times higher than 2001. If you wanted to win the war on drugs wouldn't it make sense to cut supply at the source? Especially if you've invaded said country that produces 97% of the worlds crop? What? You realize Afghanistan and Colombia have absolutely nothing to do with each other, right?!
Thread was discussing the CIA running the drug trade.
Please keep up.
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On October 03 2016 22:12 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 22:06 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On October 03 2016 21:29 GoTuNk! wrote:
Can't you simply condemn this categorically evil organization? Or you feel the need to put the blame on something else, like the CIA? Look at this Afghanistan chart.The massive drop in 2001 is when the taliban banned opium production. Current production is around 40 times higher than 2001. If you wanted to win the war on drugs wouldn't it make sense to cut supply at the source? Especially if you've invaded said country that produces 97% of the worlds crop? What? You realize Afghanistan and Colombia have absolutely nothing to do with each other, right?!
Also, cocaine (EDIT: and its derivatives) is not opium in case that was also being conflated.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct1wSv6WEAAtX6X.jpg)
