|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On October 03 2016 12:13 zlefin wrote:
Why were they interested in the PoV of a crazy person?
I mean, there's plenty of people who support trump with fewer signs of clinical insanity; so it can't be about representative trump supporter-ness.
I think I remember a poll among GOP supporters and 40% or something believed that Obama is not an American citizen, the woman in that article is not that far away from the Trump base. How much crazier than Giuliani is she really?
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'?
|
On October 03 2016 09:16 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 08:58 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 08:52 biology]major wrote:On October 03 2016 08:23 KwarK wrote:
Out of curiousity bio, now you've heard about the incident in question, does that make you think he may be racist? there is a chance he may be racist. I hope since it was so long ago that he isn't now outside of the "implicit bias" that everyone already has. Do you not think that if he has definitely done really racist things in the past and has since made a string of highly questionable "that sounds racist but let's not make judgement yet" statements that might be seen as a pattern? Because sure, if he's spent the last 20 years being above reproach you could argue that we can't conclude anything from the fact that he discriminated against "colored" people in housing. But I think there is more evidence for the opposite, that it is just who he is and what he does. It's possible, but to definitively know if Trump is a racist, I'd have to say you either have to be a close friend of his or be his therapist/psychiatrist. We don't have access to that, and given he has had numerous people who know him completely reject that notion (even black people), I'm gonna put on my trump goggles and hope he isn't racist. This reminds me of how I tried to label Clinton a sociopath, it's possible, but you'd have to know her or be her shrink to really know. Question for you, when you follow the money on Clinton's past dealings, does nothing you see there worry you? Do you think Clinton sold favors to people using the state department and CF? Do you think there is an insignificant chance that DOJ will protect a democratic nominee in the most pivotal point of an election?
In other words nothing could ever prove he's a racist, no matter how blatant it might seem. Out of curiosity, have you heard this quote attributed to him by one of his former employees? Yeah, I never liked the guy. I don’t think he knows what the f––– he’s doing. My accountants up in New York are always complaining about him. He’s not responsive. And isn’t it funny, I’ve got black accountants at the Trump Castle and at Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. Those are the kind of people I want counting my money. No one else. Besides that, I’ve got to tell you something else. I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not something they can control. … Don’t you agree?
If so, do you take the "he didn't say that, and probably misspoke when he told Playboy that stuff O'Donnell wrote about him was true" line? Or do you figure someone saying only Jews should be accountants and "laziness is a trait in blacks" isn't enough to say they're racist without being close family or their shrink?
|
On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 12:13 zlefin wrote:
Why were they interested in the PoV of a crazy person?
I mean, there's plenty of people who support trump with fewer signs of clinical insanity; so it can't be about representative trump supporter-ness. I think I remember a poll among GOP supporters and 40% or something believed that Obama is not an American citizen, the woman in that article is not that far away from the Trump base. How much crazier than Giuliani is she really? Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'?
well, most people don't have doctor's notes at that level the article said she had notes.
As to giuliani, not sure; he used to be fine, he might have some early stage dementia.
as to second paragraph, I'm sure there's a term for it, but I'm not sure offhand what it is.
|
On October 03 2016 12:28 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 09:16 biology]major wrote:On October 03 2016 08:58 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 08:52 biology]major wrote:On October 03 2016 08:23 KwarK wrote:
Out of curiousity bio, now you've heard about the incident in question, does that make you think he may be racist? there is a chance he may be racist. I hope since it was so long ago that he isn't now outside of the "implicit bias" that everyone already has. Do you not think that if he has definitely done really racist things in the past and has since made a string of highly questionable "that sounds racist but let's not make judgement yet" statements that might be seen as a pattern? Because sure, if he's spent the last 20 years being above reproach you could argue that we can't conclude anything from the fact that he discriminated against "colored" people in housing. But I think there is more evidence for the opposite, that it is just who he is and what he does. It's possible, but to definitively know if Trump is a racist, I'd have to say you either have to be a close friend of his or be his therapist/psychiatrist. We don't have access to that, and given he has had numerous people who know him completely reject that notion (even black people), I'm gonna put on my trump goggles and hope he isn't racist. This reminds me of how I tried to label Clinton a sociopath, it's possible, but you'd have to know her or be her shrink to really know. Question for you, when you follow the money on Clinton's past dealings, does nothing you see there worry you? Do you think Clinton sold favors to people using the state department and CF? Do you think there is an insignificant chance that DOJ will protect a democratic nominee in the most pivotal point of an election? In other words nothing could ever prove he's a racist, no matter how blatant it might seem. Out of curiosity, have you heard this quote attributed to him by one of his former employees? Show nested quote +Yeah, I never liked the guy. I don’t think he knows what the f––– he’s doing. My accountants up in New York are always complaining about him. He’s not responsive. And isn’t it funny, I’ve got black accountants at the Trump Castle and at Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. Those are the kind of people I want counting my money. No one else. Besides that, I’ve got to tell you something else. I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not something they can control. … Don’t you agree? If so, do you take the "he didn't say that, and probably misspoke when he told Playboy that stuff O'Donnell wrote about him was true" line? Or do you figure someone saying only Jews should be accountants and "laziness is a trait in blacks" isn't enough to say they're racist without being close family or their shrink?
Damn, that quote. Where is that from?
|
On October 03 2016 10:21 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 10:17 ticklishmusic wrote:
colombian peace deal just failed to pass.
...this makes me worry about the election a bit more To put some context, the deal failed because it involved pardoning the terrorist group, granting them political power, funding and overriding the Colombian constitution. I believe FARC members unconditional surrender is the "peace deal" that should happen; they should face trial for their crimes. Colombia's last president cornered them close to full defeat, that's why they started these negotiations in the first place.
Something tells me the CIA doesn't want FARC in a courtroom going into details about their operations and "assistance" in Columbia. Also we don't want our top cocaine supplier to stop supplying our cocaine, we just want it to be cheaper/consistent, so stability is important.
|
[/QUOTE]
For as troubling as I think the overall Trump support is, a profile of a disturbed women as representative of Trump supporters is fair to neither her nor other Trump supporters
|
On October 03 2016 12:01 Plansix wrote:
It is both sad and terrifying. You can see how government and the US has totally failed these people in the last 15 years and why they have turned to a man that is just going to let them down again. ]
If i posted exactly the same text about the "Obamaphone Lady" in 2012 would you have called me a racist?
|
On October 03 2016 12:36 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 12:28 ChristianS wrote:On October 03 2016 09:16 biology]major wrote:On October 03 2016 08:58 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 08:52 biology]major wrote:On October 03 2016 08:23 KwarK wrote:
Out of curiousity bio, now you've heard about the incident in question, does that make you think he may be racist? there is a chance he may be racist. I hope since it was so long ago that he isn't now outside of the "implicit bias" that everyone already has. Do you not think that if he has definitely done really racist things in the past and has since made a string of highly questionable "that sounds racist but let's not make judgement yet" statements that might be seen as a pattern? Because sure, if he's spent the last 20 years being above reproach you could argue that we can't conclude anything from the fact that he discriminated against "colored" people in housing. But I think there is more evidence for the opposite, that it is just who he is and what he does. It's possible, but to definitively know if Trump is a racist, I'd have to say you either have to be a close friend of his or be his therapist/psychiatrist. We don't have access to that, and given he has had numerous people who know him completely reject that notion (even black people), I'm gonna put on my trump goggles and hope he isn't racist. This reminds me of how I tried to label Clinton a sociopath, it's possible, but you'd have to know her or be her shrink to really know. Question for you, when you follow the money on Clinton's past dealings, does nothing you see there worry you? Do you think Clinton sold favors to people using the state department and CF? Do you think there is an insignificant chance that DOJ will protect a democratic nominee in the most pivotal point of an election? In other words nothing could ever prove he's a racist, no matter how blatant it might seem. Out of curiosity, have you heard this quote attributed to him by one of his former employees? Yeah, I never liked the guy. I don’t think he knows what the f––– he’s doing. My accountants up in New York are always complaining about him. He’s not responsive. And isn’t it funny, I’ve got black accountants at the Trump Castle and at Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. Those are the kind of people I want counting my money. No one else. Besides that, I’ve got to tell you something else. I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not something they can control. … Don’t you agree? If so, do you take the "he didn't say that, and probably misspoke when he told Playboy that stuff O'Donnell wrote about him was true" line? Or do you figure someone saying only Jews should be accountants and "laziness is a trait in blacks" isn't enough to say they're racist without being close family or their shrink? Damn, that quote. Where is that from?
That quote is from a book by a former employee of Trump's, John O'Donnell (from a book O'Donnell wrote in 1991). When the book came out Trump denied everything, but then in 1997 in an interview with Playboy he said all that stuff O'Donnell wrote about him was probably true.
|
United States43618 Posts
For what it's worth in the Northern Irish Good Friday Agreement the British government had to swallow a very bitter pill to secure peace. The IRA agreed to disarm but refused to surrender their weapons to the authorities because they were British authorities and they didn't want to "surrender". They also wouldn't provide video proof of making their arms inoperable because they didn't want it to appear in Ulster Unionist propaganda. So we ended up with the equivalent of them stripping their guns down to parts and putting them in a closet. Also convicted terrorists who murdered innocent people got released, were able to run for public office and got elected to positions where people they were previously trying to kill were forced to work alongside them. Like I said, a very bitter pill. But on the other side, the IRA disavowed their crusade to fight until all of Ireland was independent, the bombings stopped, the army checkpoints and watchtowers ended, the killings and reprisals stopped.
Ultimately the freedom of the people of Northern Ireland was secured by the agreement. They were facing a hostile and imperialist insurgency from the south that wanted to force them into a country in which they'd be a minority, against their will. After 80 years of trying to end the insurgency failed a really shitty agreement succeeded. The IRA did, by and large, abandon their crusade and diplomacy succeeded where military force could not.
|
On October 03 2016 13:46 CatharsisUT wrote:
For as troubling as I think the overall Trump support is, a profile of a disturbed women as representative of Trump supporters is fair to neither her nor other Trump supporters[/QUOTE]
I definitely agree, but this is some serious Stephen King horror shit right here. To think that even one of my fellow Americans is this troubled and crazy is still really, really sad.
|
On October 03 2016 13:58 KwarK wrote:
For what it's worth in the Northern Irish Good Friday Agreement the British government had to swallow a very bitter pill to secure peace. The IRA agreed to disarm but refused to surrender their weapons to the authorities because they were British authorities and they didn't want to "surrender". They also wouldn't provide video proof of making their arms inoperable because they didn't want it to appear in Ulster Unionist propaganda. So we ended up with the equivalent of them stripping their guns down to parts and putting them in a closet. Also convicted terrorists who murdered innocent people got released, were able to run for public office and got elected to positions where people they were previously trying to kill were forced to work alongside them. Like I said, a very bitter pill. But on the other side, the IRA disavowed their crusade to fight until all of Ireland was independent, the bombings stopped, the army checkpoints and watchtowers ended, the killings and reprisals stopped.
Ultimately the freedom of the people of Northern Ireland was secured by the agreement. They were facing a hostile and imperialist insurgency from the south that wanted to force them into a country in which they'd be a minority, against their will. After 80 years of trying to end the insurgency failed a really shitty agreement succeeded. The IRA did, by and large, abandon their crusade and diplomacy succeeded where military force could not.
Dealing with dedicated guerrilla movements is an ugly thing. It's often either quite a few concessions, endless war, a magical state where other countries don't play war games in your country, or dirty war with substantial collateral damage. It's a hard and unpleasant business.
|
On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'?
You're talking about a group of people -- a large group -- who have been maligned and marginalized in pretty much every way imaginable: economically, culturally, and religiously. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that this group is now lashing out.
|
On October 03 2016 14:30 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'? You're talking about a group of people -- a large group -- who have been maligned and marginalized in pretty much every way imaginable: economically, culturally, and religiously. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that this group is now lashing out.
I'm not exactly surprised they're lashing out, although I'm a bit surprised at their choice of champion. The poor white people are having a hard time, quick! Elect the one man who's more of a plutocrat than Mitt Romney!
|
On October 03 2016 14:30 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'? You're talking about a group of people -- a large group -- who have been maligned and marginalized in pretty much every way imaginable: economically, culturally, and religiously. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that this group is now lashing out.
Imagine every group in America that has had it hard would lash out like this. You'd live in a permanent riot. And these people are 'only' facing economic hardship, much of it due to how they've run their states and communities themselves. And they've still got a black guy in the white house who gives a fuck about them although they don't even acknowledge that he's American. I don't think that's reasonable at all.
|
On October 03 2016 14:43 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 14:30 xDaunt wrote:On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'? You're talking about a group of people -- a large group -- who have been maligned and marginalized in pretty much every way imaginable: economically, culturally, and religiously. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that this group is now lashing out. Imagine every group in America that has had it hard would lash out like this. You'd live in a permanent riot. And these people are 'only' facing economic hardship, much of it due to how they've run their states and communities themselves. And they've still got a black guy in the white house who gives a fuck about them although they don't even acknowledge that he's American. I don't think that's reasonable at all.
Yeah, you clearly don't understand the magnitude of the problem at all.
|
On October 03 2016 14:43 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 14:30 xDaunt wrote:On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'? You're talking about a group of people -- a large group -- who have been maligned and marginalized in pretty much every way imaginable: economically, culturally, and religiously. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that this group is now lashing out. Imagine every group in America that has had it hard would lash out like this. You'd live in a permanent riot. And these people are 'only' facing economic hardship, much of it due to how they've run their states and communities themselves. And they've still got a black guy in the white house who gives a fuck about them although they don't even acknowledge that he's American. I don't think that's reasonable at all.
The dems doesn't care about those people.
They're "deplorable" right?
Globalism hasn't helped them any more than it's helped the poor bastards in Detroit.
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On October 03 2016 14:30 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'? You're talking about a group of people -- a large group -- who have been maligned and marginalized in pretty much every way imaginable: economically, culturally, and religiously. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that this group is now lashing out.
Genuine question: in what way have they been marginalised religiously? I assume their religion is Christianity, so what did I miss? Gay marriage?
(This isn't an attempt at making fun of anyone, I'm really honestly curious, I don't follow american politics or american life much)
Also curious about culturally but I think I can see that angle better at least.
|
On October 03 2016 15:12 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 14:30 xDaunt wrote:On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'? You're talking about a group of people -- a large group -- who have been maligned and marginalized in pretty much every way imaginable: economically, culturally, and religiously. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that this group is now lashing out. Genuine question: in what way have they been marginalised religiously? I assume their religion is Christianity, so what did I miss? Gay marriage? (This isn't an attempt at making fun of anyone, I'm really honestly curious, I don't follow american politics or american life much) Also curious about culturally but I think I can see that angle better at least.
Speaking as someone from a pretty religious family with 3 Lutheran pastors in it, it does seem that there is a decline in membership/participation (from what I hear from them). However, the war on Christianity that Fox likes to talk about is a myth. It is more or less people looking elsewhere for the things that the previous generation got from religious communities (that and the advancements of science). Christianity still holds a special and privileged place in the US though. Once again imo its one of those "when equality for more minorities start to make advancements the majority feels threatened"/ I have no doubt that older christians feel that they are being rejected, especially since they have been on the losing side of many cultural things like gay marriage. Combine that with decreasing numbers of engaged younger people and media liking to blow things out of proportion and boom Christians feel like they are under siege.
What I find interesting is that in my family the older ones are the ones calling for the younger ones to chill out with how far they are going to the right.
|
United States43618 Posts
On October 03 2016 15:12 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 14:30 xDaunt wrote:On October 03 2016 12:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Also genuine question, why do these people act like America constantly owes them something given that they feel nothing but contempt for everybody who isn't living in 'real America'? You're talking about a group of people -- a large group -- who have been maligned and marginalized in pretty much every way imaginable: economically, culturally, and religiously. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that this group is now lashing out. Genuine question: in what way have they been marginalised religiously? I assume their religion is Christianity, so what did I miss? Gay marriage? (This isn't an attempt at making fun of anyone, I'm really honestly curious, I don't follow american politics or american life much) Also curious about culturally but I think I can see that angle better at least.
The war on Christmas. Donald Trump has a long and public supporter of the fight to remove Happy Holidays from our lexicon and replace it with Merry Christmas, all year round.
|
According to @wikileaks Julian Assange will appear via video link at Berlin press conference, Tuesday AM.
Could it be his much talked about October surprise?
Hang tight Hillary, we will find out soon enough!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
