• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:38
CEST 22:38
KST 05:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
EWC 2025 - Replay Pack0Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced25BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19
StarCraft 2
General
EWC 2025 - Replay Pack #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 I offer completely free coaching services
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
UK Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 722 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 485

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 483 484 485 486 487 10093 Next
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
September 30 2013 20:14 GMT
#9681
On September 30 2013 22:25 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2013 22:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On September 30 2013 15:54 Falling wrote:
What was he supposed to compromise on? Beyond 'don't do ACA at all.' Maybe my memory is foggy, but I don't recall many strong arguments being made for tinkering with ACA or even making larger changes to it. I mostly remember the battleground being fought over the very existence of the bill. It's hard to compromise on a bill if the compromise is supposed to be 'throw the entire thing out.' More like capitulation. But again my memory might be faulty.

Just speculating but eliminating the employer mandate would alleviate a lot of the fears that Obamacare will kill jobs. The individual mandate could also be reworked so that it's no longer 'a tax for not doing something'.

I don't know if those changes would make the GOP fine with Obamacare, but those two mandates seem to be the things complained about the most.


How can you have a universal healthcare without an individual mandate? The fact that everyone has to pay into health care to spread costs is the very foundation of universal healthcare.

It's a difference in name only. You'd increase taxes (likely across the board), then provide tax credits based on income and insurance enrollment. It would effectively be the same.

The employer mandate is there to save the system that we have now. Dumping ~30 million people onto a market is hard but doable. Dumping ~300 million people onto a new market would likely crash everything and cost a LOT more upfront. Without the penalty/incentive for businesses to keep their coverage for employees, many more people would be thrown onto an unproven market.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 30 2013 20:19 GMT
#9682
Heads up Obama to speak in 15 minutes.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
September 30 2013 20:38 GMT
#9683
On October 01 2013 05:14 aksfjh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2013 22:25 Gorsameth wrote:
On September 30 2013 22:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On September 30 2013 15:54 Falling wrote:
What was he supposed to compromise on? Beyond 'don't do ACA at all.' Maybe my memory is foggy, but I don't recall many strong arguments being made for tinkering with ACA or even making larger changes to it. I mostly remember the battleground being fought over the very existence of the bill. It's hard to compromise on a bill if the compromise is supposed to be 'throw the entire thing out.' More like capitulation. But again my memory might be faulty.

Just speculating but eliminating the employer mandate would alleviate a lot of the fears that Obamacare will kill jobs. The individual mandate could also be reworked so that it's no longer 'a tax for not doing something'.

I don't know if those changes would make the GOP fine with Obamacare, but those two mandates seem to be the things complained about the most.


How can you have a universal healthcare without an individual mandate? The fact that everyone has to pay into health care to spread costs is the very foundation of universal healthcare.

It's a difference in name only. You'd increase taxes (likely across the board), then provide tax credits based on income and insurance enrollment. It would effectively be the same.

The employer mandate is there to save the system that we have now. Dumping ~30 million people onto a market is hard but doable. Dumping ~300 million people onto a new market would likely crash everything and cost a LOT more upfront. Without the penalty/incentive for businesses to keep their coverage for employees, many more people would be thrown onto an unproven market.

Why would employers stop offering insurance without the mandate when they already don't have the mandate?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 30 2013 21:01 GMT
#9684
Obama Speakingm Live Stream:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2013/09/president-to-speak-at-445-pm-et.html
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 30 2013 21:06 GMT
#9685
NASA with the exception of Mission Control will be closed entirely if shutdown occurs
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Saryph
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1955 Posts
September 30 2013 21:10 GMT
#9686
If President Gingrich was in charge it wouldn't have been put at risk! We'd already be on the moon again!
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 30 2013 21:11 GMT
#9687
National Parks, Museums will all be closed.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 30 2013 21:12 GMT
#9688
Obama: "You don't get to extract a ransom just for doing your job."
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
CannonsNCarriers
Profile Joined April 2010
United States638 Posts
September 30 2013 21:16 GMT
#9689
Boehner needs to let the clean bill have a floor vote. There are 232 Republicans and 200 Democrats in the house. In a floor vote, 200 Democrats will vote for the clean CR to avoid shutdown. If there are 32+ Republican defectors, then shutdown is avoided. There is good reason to believe that there would be 32+ Republican defectors. We can talk about "will of the people" all we want, but there is a majority in the congress for the clean CR that comes from all the Dems + some defector Republicans.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/boehner-s-dilemma-surrender-on-obamacare-or-shut-down-the-government

Dun tuch my cheezbrgr
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 30 2013 21:16 GMT
#9690
So now the ball is back in Boehner's court, if it ever left, after that speech by Obama. Now word is leaking out that the Speaker might not even have the votes for his Plan C after B was rejected by the Senate.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Vegetarian Wolf
Profile Joined May 2010
China434 Posts
September 30 2013 21:24 GMT
#9691
"The U.S. Labor Department won’t release its monthly employment report if the federal government is closed on Oct. 4, the day of the scheduled release, according to an Obama administration official. "

rofl
Awooo...
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21668 Posts
September 30 2013 21:35 GMT
#9692
On October 01 2013 06:24 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:
"The U.S. Labor Department won’t release its monthly employment report if the federal government is closed on Oct. 4, the day of the scheduled release, according to an Obama administration official. "

rofl

What? sounds perfectly logical. The Labor Department would be closed. No department that is effected will be doing anything.

And the ball is most definitely in the Republican court. The threatened a shutdown over Obamacare and the Democrats are calling there bluff.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
sc2superfan101
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
3583 Posts
September 30 2013 21:47 GMT
#9693
Meh, I disagree. Ball is still in Obama's court. Republicans have shown their willingness to negotiate, Obama hasn't.

Boehner has two choices: stand up with the Tea Partiers and stay in power as a figurehead, or cave in and lose everything. I'll put it at 50/50 that his spite at being overtaken is enough to make him cut off his own nose.
My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them.
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
September 30 2013 21:51 GMT
#9694
Boehner is in a lose-lose situation. If I were him I'd retire.
Writer
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
September 30 2013 21:53 GMT
#9695
On October 01 2013 05:38 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 05:14 aksfjh wrote:
On September 30 2013 22:25 Gorsameth wrote:
On September 30 2013 22:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On September 30 2013 15:54 Falling wrote:
What was he supposed to compromise on? Beyond 'don't do ACA at all.' Maybe my memory is foggy, but I don't recall many strong arguments being made for tinkering with ACA or even making larger changes to it. I mostly remember the battleground being fought over the very existence of the bill. It's hard to compromise on a bill if the compromise is supposed to be 'throw the entire thing out.' More like capitulation. But again my memory might be faulty.

Just speculating but eliminating the employer mandate would alleviate a lot of the fears that Obamacare will kill jobs. The individual mandate could also be reworked so that it's no longer 'a tax for not doing something'.

I don't know if those changes would make the GOP fine with Obamacare, but those two mandates seem to be the things complained about the most.


How can you have a universal healthcare without an individual mandate? The fact that everyone has to pay into health care to spread costs is the very foundation of universal healthcare.

It's a difference in name only. You'd increase taxes (likely across the board), then provide tax credits based on income and insurance enrollment. It would effectively be the same.

The employer mandate is there to save the system that we have now. Dumping ~30 million people onto a market is hard but doable. Dumping ~300 million people onto a new market would likely crash everything and cost a LOT more upfront. Without the penalty/incentive for businesses to keep their coverage for employees, many more people would be thrown onto an unproven market.

Why would employers stop offering insurance without the mandate when they already don't have the mandate?

Same reason many went from funded pension plans to 401k matching plans.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
September 30 2013 21:57 GMT
#9696
On October 01 2013 06:53 aksfjh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 05:38 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On October 01 2013 05:14 aksfjh wrote:
On September 30 2013 22:25 Gorsameth wrote:
On September 30 2013 22:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On September 30 2013 15:54 Falling wrote:
What was he supposed to compromise on? Beyond 'don't do ACA at all.' Maybe my memory is foggy, but I don't recall many strong arguments being made for tinkering with ACA or even making larger changes to it. I mostly remember the battleground being fought over the very existence of the bill. It's hard to compromise on a bill if the compromise is supposed to be 'throw the entire thing out.' More like capitulation. But again my memory might be faulty.

Just speculating but eliminating the employer mandate would alleviate a lot of the fears that Obamacare will kill jobs. The individual mandate could also be reworked so that it's no longer 'a tax for not doing something'.

I don't know if those changes would make the GOP fine with Obamacare, but those two mandates seem to be the things complained about the most.


How can you have a universal healthcare without an individual mandate? The fact that everyone has to pay into health care to spread costs is the very foundation of universal healthcare.

It's a difference in name only. You'd increase taxes (likely across the board), then provide tax credits based on income and insurance enrollment. It would effectively be the same.

The employer mandate is there to save the system that we have now. Dumping ~30 million people onto a market is hard but doable. Dumping ~300 million people onto a new market would likely crash everything and cost a LOT more upfront. Without the penalty/incentive for businesses to keep their coverage for employees, many more people would be thrown onto an unproven market.

Why would employers stop offering insurance without the mandate when they already don't have the mandate?

Same reason many went from funded pension plans to 401k matching plans.

Assuming you're correct that would be something that plays out over a period of decades, not a quick dump of ~300 million insured.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 30 2013 22:00 GMT
#9697
On October 01 2013 06:47 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Meh, I disagree. Ball is still in Obama's court. Republicans have shown their willingness to negotiate, Obama hasn't.

Boehner has two choices: stand up with the Tea Partiers and stay in power as a figurehead, or cave in and lose everything. I'll put it at 50/50 that his spite at being overtaken is enough to make him cut off his own nose.

Yeah, I don't have high hopes for him sticking it out for very long.

This could end up being a political boondoggle for the republicans, but I'd rather that republicans take that chance now. Regardless of the outcome, the party will be forced to unify after this. If it succeeds, the tea party republicans will be put on the fast track to ascension. If it fails, they'll be stamped out. Might as well get it over with.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21668 Posts
September 30 2013 22:02 GMT
#9698
On October 01 2013 06:47 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Meh, I disagree. Ball is still in Obama's court. Republicans have shown their willingness to negotiate, Obama hasn't.

Boehner has two choices: stand up with the Tea Partiers and stay in power as a figurehead, or cave in and lose everything. I'll put it at 50/50 that his spite at being overtaken is enough to make him cut off his own nose.


Have you seen there list of demand? Wanting every single political point you ever thought of isnt willingness to negotiate.
They dont even wanne negotiate on Obamacare. they want it gone and nothing else is an option. Have they proposed adjustments to Obamacare that would make it a better healthcare law? And i mean realistic proposals not "throw it all away"
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 30 2013 22:03 GMT
#9699
On October 01 2013 06:51 Souma wrote:
Boehner is in a lose-lose situation. If I were him I'd retire.

This is true. He's going to lose regardless of whether the republican party "wins."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 30 2013 22:04 GMT
#9700
On October 01 2013 07:02 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 06:47 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Meh, I disagree. Ball is still in Obama's court. Republicans have shown their willingness to negotiate, Obama hasn't.

Boehner has two choices: stand up with the Tea Partiers and stay in power as a figurehead, or cave in and lose everything. I'll put it at 50/50 that his spite at being overtaken is enough to make him cut off his own nose.


Have you seen there list of demand? Wanting every single political point you ever thought of isnt willingness to negotiate.
They dont even wanne negotiate on Obamacare. they want it gone and nothing else is an option. Have they proposed adjustments to Obamacare that would make it a better healthcare law? And i mean realistic proposals not "throw it all away"

I take it that you have never conducted a serious negotiation before. Your opening demand is never your bottom line or even where you expect the negotiation to end up.
Prev 1 483 484 485 486 487 10093 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18:00
RO8 Round Robin Group - Day 4
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
ZZZero.O236
LiquipediaDiscussion
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Clem vs LamboLIVE!
Reynor vs TBD
RotterdaM2864
ComeBackTV 2450
IndyStarCraft 721
WardiTV434
3DClanTV 201
CranKy Ducklings175
EnkiAlexander 138
Rex66
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2864
IndyStarCraft 721
Rex 66
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 236
NaDa 7
Dota 2
capcasts294
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 294
febbydoto15
Counter-Strike
fl0m3371
Fnx 2230
Stewie2K597
flusha422
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox2103
Mew2King1541
AZ_Axe297
Westballz14
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu569
Khaldor409
Other Games
Grubby2961
B2W.Neo1006
mouzStarbuck133
KnowMe113
Sick32
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3059
StarCraft 2
angryscii 22
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta30
• LUISG 21
• Adnapsc2 5
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki33
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22079
• WagamamaTV912
League of Legends
• Doublelift4549
Other Games
• imaqtpie1765
• Shiphtur510
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
14h 23m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 13h
WardiTV European League
1d 19h
Online Event
1d 20h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.