US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4820
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On August 26 2016 05:37 ticklishmusic wrote: And lets stop bogeymanning the Clinton Foundation like some sort of nefarious illuminati hedge fund entity. It's one of the biggest charities in the world and does heck of a lot of good. That's exactly why its such a good cover for her. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 26 2016 05:37 ticklishmusic wrote: And lets stop bogeymanning the Clinton Foundation like some sort of nefarious illuminati hedge fund entity. It's one of the biggest charities in the world and does heck of a lot of good even if some of the dollars are coming from less than pure sources. Its also super transparent. If you want to know who donates, that info is out there and easy to find. That is why the press has found almost nothing worth writing about when it comes to the foundation. On August 26 2016 05:38 biology]major wrote: That's exactly why its such a good cover for her. Its how she funds the chem. trails and funnels money to the secret mind control drugs put in the drinking water. | ||
Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On August 26 2016 05:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i thought the 2nd amendment was an important topic in the USA thread? if its not and there is a specific thread about the 2nd amendment and gun control; sorry for posting here. Mostly just when presidential candidates say the 2nd amendment people can do certain things. | ||
Trainrunnef
United States599 Posts
On August 26 2016 04:54 oBlade wrote: I don't think anyone has ever teamed up with the media to deliver an entire prepared speech about insulting and delegitimizing the other side's voters before. The only time she insulted and deligitimized any voters of the "other side" was when she talked about the students in the highschool basketball game taunting players on the other team because of their race. The rest of the entire speech was specifically and directly aimed at Trump. If you feel in any way that she attacked the voters it means that those voters somehow identify with those beliefs she outlined as bigoted, and not that they were mislead by a charismatic and misguided candidate. So really it's you who is insulting the "other side's" voters, even if you were one of them. EDIT: and thinking back on it, the highschool kids arent even voters. | ||
LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Two questionable companies merging because one ran out of money. Sounds like an adventure. | ||
oBlade
United States5294 Posts
On August 26 2016 05:20 CannonsNCarriers wrote: This is Trump literally "insulting and delegitimizing the other side's voters". Word for word. He is saying their votes are not legitimate and will be fraudulent. "We're going to watch Pennsylvania. Go down to certain areas and watch and study and make sure other people don't come in and vote five times," he said at a rally in Altoona. "If you do that, we're not going to lose. The only way we can lose, in my opinion -- I really mean this, Pennsylvania -- is if cheating goes on." http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/12/politics/donald-trump-pennsylvania-cheating/ Voting five times is fraud. And that's a few lines from a rally. | ||
Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 26 2016 05:45 oBlade wrote: Voting five times is fraud. And that's a few lines from a rally. Yeah, but that isn’t going to happen. It also isn’t how voter fraud is committed if someone wants to rig an election. Just like voter impersonation isn’t really a crime anyone should be worried about because no one does that. | ||
biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On August 26 2016 05:39 Plansix wrote: Its also super transparent. If you want to know who donates, that info is out there and easy to find. That is why the press has found almost nothing worth writing about when it comes to the foundation. Its how she funds the chem. trails and funnels money to the secret mind control drugs put in the drinking water. She's so trustworthy that she wouldn't ever use her power as secretary of state to return favors for people who donated to the charity she created herself. She has a heart of gold really. | ||
Gorsameth
Netherlands21369 Posts
On August 26 2016 05:45 oBlade wrote: Voting five times is fraud. And that's a few lines from a rally. Where did anyone deny that? Calling out Joe Average to scope out polling stations is what people have problems with because its only a short step from that to voter intimidation. There are people for overseeing the integrity of polling stations. Use tho, some angry people off the street. | ||
GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16436 Posts
On August 26 2016 05:20 KwarK wrote: That'll show all those people who believed that humans could literally only die from guns. Do you have any familiarity with the actual arguments used by proponents of gun control? generally speaking, i believe in the 2nd amendment. i think the status quo in upstate New York is satisfactory. in general, i like how different local areas throughout New York state have their own gun laws so that local politicians are held to account. its a lot easier for democracy to work well at a local level than at a federal level. the larger the physical size of the area being governed.. the lower is the approximation of the will of the people a democracy offers. so i like how Buffalo and New York city have their own standards. i think the gun control laws where i live need to be loosened up. i also think people should be able to wear bullet proof vests and i think its total BS that is outlawed where i live. basically, you have to be available to be shot by the cops at any second of the day. or as we see by today's headlines someone with a crossbow. i can't say much about other states because i'm rarely in them. furthermore , all by USA friends live in New York state. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 26 2016 05:51 GGTeMpLaR wrote: It's getting old hearing 'we shouldn't worry about x crime because it rarely happens' Never happen*. *+ Show Spoiler + The instances of these things happening are so small that they have no substantive effect on any election in recent history. And they are not an effective way to rig an election. | ||
oBlade
United States5294 Posts
On August 26 2016 05:41 Trainrunnef wrote: The only time she insulted and deligitimized any voters of the "other side" was when she talked about the students in the highschool basketball game taunting players on the other team because of their race. The rest of the entire speech was specifically and directly aimed at Trump. If you feel in any way that she attacked the voters it means that those voters somehow identify with those beliefs she outlined as bigoted, and not that they were mislead by a charismatic and misguided candidate. So really it's you who is insulting the "other side's" voters, even if you were one of them. EDIT: and thinking back on it, the highschool kids arent even voters. I'm not the one really calling the "right-wing" racist. + Show Spoiler + The latest shake-up was designed to – quote – "Let Trump be Trump." To do that, he hired Stephen Bannon, the head of a right-wing website called Breitbart.com, as campaign CEO. To give you a flavor of his work, here are a few headlines they’ve published: "Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy." "Would You Rather Your Child Had Feminism or Cancer?" "Gabby Giffords: The Gun Control Movement’s Human Shield" "Hoist It High And Proud: The Confederate Flag Proclaims A Glorious Heritage." That one came shortly after the Charleston massacre, when Democrats and Republicans alike were doing everything they could to heal racial divides. Breitbart tried to enflame them further. Just imagine – Donald Trump reading that and thinking: "this is what I need more of in my campaign." Bannon has nasty things to say about pretty much everyone. This spring, he railed against Paul Ryan for, quote "rubbing his social-justice Catholicism in my nose every second." No wonder he’s gone to work for Trump – the only Presidential candidate ever to get into a public feud with the Pope. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups, Breitbart embraces "ideas on the extremist fringe of the conservative right. Racist ideas. Race-baiting ideas. Anti-Muslim and anti-Immigrant ideas –– all key tenets making up an emerging racist ideology known as the ‘Alt-Right.’" Alt-Right is short for "Alternative Right." The Wall Street Journal describes it as a loosely organized movement, mostly online, that "rejects mainstream conservatism, promotes nationalism and views immigration and multiculturalism as threats to white identity." The de facto merger between Breitbart and the Trump Campaign represents a landmark achievement for the "Alt-Right." A fringe element has effectively taken over the Republican Party. This is part of a broader story -- the rising tide of hardline, right-wing nationalism around the world. Just yesterday, one of Britain’s most prominent right-wing leaders, Nigel Farage, who stoked anti-immigrant sentiments to win the referendum on leaving the European Union, campaigned with Donald Trump in Mississippi. Farage has called for a ban on the children of legal immigrants from public schools and health services, has said women are quote "worth less" than men, and supports scrapping laws that prevent employers from discriminating based on race -- that’s who Trump wants by his side The godfather of this global brand of extreme nationalism is Russian President Vladimir Putin. In fact, Farage has appeared regularly on Russian propaganda programs. Now he’s standing on the same stage as the Republican nominee. Trump himself heaps praise on Putin and embrace pro-Russian policies. He talks casually of abandoning our NATO allies, recognizing Russia’s annexation of Crimea, and of giving the Kremlin a free hand in Eastern Europe more generally. American presidents from Truman to Reagan have rejected the kind of approach Trump is taking on Russia. We should, too. All of this adds up to something we’ve never seen before. Of course there’s always been a paranoid fringe in our politics, steeped in racial resentment. But it’s never had the nominee of a major party stoking it, encouraging it, and giving it a national megaphone. Until now. On David Duke’s radio show the other day, the mood was jubilant. "We appear to have taken over the Republican Party," one white supremacist said. Duke laughed. There’s still more work to do, he said. No one should have any illusions about what’s really going on here. The names may have changed… Racists now call themselves "racialists." White supremacists now call themselves "white nationalists." The paranoid fringe now calls itself "alt-right." But the hate burns just as bright. It'd be like Trump giving a speech about how Buzzfeed's readers are satanist fascists who hate freedom just like those commies in Sweden whose politicians by the way support Clinton. I haven't even addressed whether she's right or wrong. What I'm saying is this kind of address hasn't happened in presidential politics in recent memory. | ||
GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On August 26 2016 05:54 Plansix wrote: Never happen*. *+ Show Spoiler + The instances of these things happening are so small that they have no substantive effect on any election in recent history. And they are not an effective way to rig an election. I think you're confused about the definition of never. I re-iterate On August 26 2016 05:51 GGTeMpLaR wrote: It's getting old hearing 'we shouldn't worry about x crime because it rarely happens' | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 26 2016 05:51 GGTeMpLaR wrote: It's getting old hearing 'we shouldn't worry about x crime because it rarely happens' With voter fraud it's not so much that it never happens, but that it never impacts outcomes even if it does happen. Individual votes matter so little to the actual outcomes of the election that the scale on which voter fraud has to happen to have any impact at all is basically impossible through individuals voting more than once. I wouldn't go so far as to say "we shouldn't worry about it", but arguing that not doing anything about it is going to somehow poison the results like Trump seems to think is stupid. It would be better to do something about it than not, but not doing anything about it isn't going to delegitimize the election outcome. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 26 2016 05:57 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I think you're confused about the definition of never. “Never” in the context of: Should we be worried about this happening based on how often it happens? The answer is: It never happens on a level that would require a response. When you should worry about it? Never. Trump is asking his supporters to look out for fraud in one of the least likely ways fraud is going to take place. If the election is rigged, it is never going to be because people voted 5 times. | ||
GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On August 26 2016 06:00 TheYango wrote: With voter fraud it's not so much that it never happens, but that it never impacts outcomes even if it does happen. Individual votes matter so little to the actual outcomes of the election that the scale on which voter fraud has to happen to have any impact at all is basically impossible through individuals voting more than once. I'll rephrase it "We shouldn't worry about x crime because it rarely happens or when it does happen it has no 'significant' impact" is a poor argument | ||
Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On August 26 2016 05:57 oBlade wrote: I'm not the one really calling the "right-wing" racist. + Show Spoiler + The latest shake-up was designed to – quote – "Let Trump be Trump." To do that, he hired Stephen Bannon, the head of a right-wing website called Breitbart.com, as campaign CEO. To give you a flavor of his work, here are a few headlines they’ve published: "Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy." "Would You Rather Your Child Had Feminism or Cancer?" "Gabby Giffords: The Gun Control Movement’s Human Shield" "Hoist It High And Proud: The Confederate Flag Proclaims A Glorious Heritage." That one came shortly after the Charleston massacre, when Democrats and Republicans alike were doing everything they could to heal racial divides. Breitbart tried to enflame them further. Just imagine – Donald Trump reading that and thinking: "this is what I need more of in my campaign." Bannon has nasty things to say about pretty much everyone. This spring, he railed against Paul Ryan for, quote "rubbing his social-justice Catholicism in my nose every second." No wonder he’s gone to work for Trump – the only Presidential candidate ever to get into a public feud with the Pope. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups, Breitbart embraces "ideas on the extremist fringe of the conservative right. Racist ideas. Race-baiting ideas. Anti-Muslim and anti-Immigrant ideas –– all key tenets making up an emerging racist ideology known as the ‘Alt-Right.’" Alt-Right is short for "Alternative Right." The Wall Street Journal describes it as a loosely organized movement, mostly online, that "rejects mainstream conservatism, promotes nationalism and views immigration and multiculturalism as threats to white identity." The de facto merger between Breitbart and the Trump Campaign represents a landmark achievement for the "Alt-Right." A fringe element has effectively taken over the Republican Party. This is part of a broader story -- the rising tide of hardline, right-wing nationalism around the world. Just yesterday, one of Britain’s most prominent right-wing leaders, Nigel Farage, who stoked anti-immigrant sentiments to win the referendum on leaving the European Union, campaigned with Donald Trump in Mississippi. Farage has called for a ban on the children of legal immigrants from public schools and health services, has said women are quote "worth less" than men, and supports scrapping laws that prevent employers from discriminating based on race -- that’s who Trump wants by his side The godfather of this global brand of extreme nationalism is Russian President Vladimir Putin. In fact, Farage has appeared regularly on Russian propaganda programs. Now he’s standing on the same stage as the Republican nominee. Trump himself heaps praise on Putin and embrace pro-Russian policies. He talks casually of abandoning our NATO allies, recognizing Russia’s annexation of Crimea, and of giving the Kremlin a free hand in Eastern Europe more generally. American presidents from Truman to Reagan have rejected the kind of approach Trump is taking on Russia. We should, too. All of this adds up to something we’ve never seen before. Of course there’s always been a paranoid fringe in our politics, steeped in racial resentment. But it’s never had the nominee of a major party stoking it, encouraging it, and giving it a national megaphone. Until now. On David Duke’s radio show the other day, the mood was jubilant. "We appear to have taken over the Republican Party," one white supremacist said. Duke laughed. There’s still more work to do, he said. No one should have any illusions about what’s really going on here. The names may have changed… Racists now call themselves "racialists." White supremacists now call themselves "white nationalists." The paranoid fringe now calls itself "alt-right." But the hate burns just as bright. It'd be like Trump giving a speech about how Buzzfeed's readers are satanist fascists who hate freedom just like those commies in Sweden whose politicians by the way support Clinton. Ah yes, false equivalencies to try to make Trump's shortcomings a wash. Because Buzzfeed's leader is now Hillary's campaign CEO, and commies in Sweden are appearing on stage with her. | ||
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