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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
August 02 2016 02:27 GMT
#92261
K-12 is too massive of a problem and it'll take too long to see what methodology (if there even is a one size fit all solution) works. There is greater ROI with university (no interest) because at least there is a well respected hierarchy that the business/academia/living people in the world community acknowledges. Trying to figure out results of all the thousands of no name elementary schools, middle schools, and high schools will take far too long and these kids will need to go to university anyway.

I agree with student loans as a tax. But it's more. It's punishment for people seeking higher education. It's literally punishment level at the moment. My best friends in medical and dental school won't even tell me their loan level. It's too traumatizing. It's a tragedy.
rip passion
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-02 02:40:36
August 02 2016 02:38 GMT
#92262
Free college is the worse idea ever. For starters there is no free anything, someone else is paying for it.
Secondly, it's just another step in the way to socialism.

All it does is create even more useless degrees and keep raising the prices of education because of the endless demand created by the state.

Surely the solution then will become that the mighty state will have to regulate courses available/and or prices. Later, this will not seem enough, and the government will acquire the universities all together.

Edit: This is how they are ruining my country atm, btw.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
August 02 2016 02:42 GMT
#92263
It is mind boggling to me that "socialism" is seen as something bad by some people.

Yeah, lets not be social about things. Lets not take care of each other. Lets be dicks and cunts instead. People seem to forget that the tribes of old have expanded into millions of people and now we must take care of each other instead of just our tiny little tribe of 100 people. You can't let the "they're not within my tribe so I don't need to give a shit about them" lead your way of thinking in this day and age.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
August 02 2016 02:47 GMT
#92264
Not to mention most colleges and universities in the US are public ones, already primarily funded through the state.
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
August 02 2016 02:48 GMT
#92265
On August 02 2016 11:42 a_flayer wrote:
It is mind boggling to me that "socialism" is seen as something bad by some people.

Yeah, lets not be social about things. Lets not take care of each other. Lets be dicks and cunts instead. People seem to forget that the tribes of old have expanded into millions of people and now we must take care of each other instead of just our tiny little tribe of 100 people. You can't let the "they're not within my tribe so I don't need to give a shit about them" lead your way of thinking in this day and age.


It seems you have not read any history or understand anything on how the world works, and simply like the word "social".

Capitalism is freely doing business with other people, and benefiting each other. Withing that context, charity is voluntarily giving to others. freely.

Socialism is a dictatorship of the state that confiscates from one group of people to give it to other group of people. It has nothing voluntary, or free. The nasty side effects of it can be seen on non-african countries where people starve to death, like North Korea or more recently, Venezuela.
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-02 02:52:48
August 02 2016 02:50 GMT
#92266
Any free university would have to require mass restructuring of how universities are. They are way too bloated to atm to make that work in the US.

On August 02 2016 11:38 GoTuNk! wrote:
Free college is the worse idea ever. For starters there is no free anything, someone else is paying for it.
Secondly, it's just another step in the way to socialism.

All it does is create even more useless degrees and keep raising the prices of education because of the endless demand created by the state.

Surely the solution then will become that the mighty state will have to regulate courses available/and or prices. Later, this will not seem enough, and the government will acquire the universities all together.

Edit: This is how they are ruining my country atm, btw.


Tell that to several successful countries in Europe. Just because your country failed to implement a system properly for whatever reason doesn't mean the system is evil.
Never Knows Best.
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-02 02:55:35
August 02 2016 02:54 GMT
#92267
On August 02 2016 11:50 Slaughter wrote:
Any free university would have to require mass restructuring of how universities are. They are way too bloated to atm to make that work in the US.

Show nested quote +
On August 02 2016 11:38 GoTuNk! wrote:
Free college is the worse idea ever. For starters there is no free anything, someone else is paying for it.
Secondly, it's just another step in the way to socialism.

All it does is create even more useless degrees and keep raising the prices of education because of the endless demand created by the state.

Surely the solution then will become that the mighty state will have to regulate courses available/and or prices. Later, this will not seem enough, and the government will acquire the universities all together.

Edit: This is how they are ruining my country atm, btw.


Tell that to Europe. Just because your country failed to implement a system properly for whatever reason doesn't mean the system is evil.


Europe is not a country, please specify one. The price of free college, a minimum 40% income tax and 20% VAT is a ruined country in my opinion. Or a broke government, like Argentina.

Even if a country can afford free college, it does not mean it is necessary a positive thing.
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
August 02 2016 02:57 GMT
#92268
On August 02 2016 11:54 GoTuNk! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2016 11:50 Slaughter wrote:
Any free university would have to require mass restructuring of how universities are. They are way too bloated to atm to make that work in the US.

On August 02 2016 11:38 GoTuNk! wrote:
Free college is the worse idea ever. For starters there is no free anything, someone else is paying for it.
Secondly, it's just another step in the way to socialism.

All it does is create even more useless degrees and keep raising the prices of education because of the endless demand created by the state.

Surely the solution then will become that the mighty state will have to regulate courses available/and or prices. Later, this will not seem enough, and the government will acquire the universities all together.

Edit: This is how they are ruining my country atm, btw.


Tell that to Europe. Just because your country failed to implement a system properly for whatever reason doesn't mean the system is evil.


Europe is not a country, please specify one. The price of free college, a minimum 40% income tax and 20% VAT is a ruined country in my opinion. Or a broke government, like Argentina.

Even if a country can afford free college, it does not mean it is necessary a positive thing.


Doesn't mean its a bad thing either. The fact that you ignore the success stories and just declare something evil is silly.
Never Knows Best.
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
August 02 2016 02:58 GMT
#92269
On August 02 2016 11:57 Slaughter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2016 11:54 GoTuNk! wrote:
On August 02 2016 11:50 Slaughter wrote:
Any free university would have to require mass restructuring of how universities are. They are way too bloated to atm to make that work in the US.

On August 02 2016 11:38 GoTuNk! wrote:
Free college is the worse idea ever. For starters there is no free anything, someone else is paying for it.
Secondly, it's just another step in the way to socialism.

All it does is create even more useless degrees and keep raising the prices of education because of the endless demand created by the state.

Surely the solution then will become that the mighty state will have to regulate courses available/and or prices. Later, this will not seem enough, and the government will acquire the universities all together.

Edit: This is how they are ruining my country atm, btw.


Tell that to Europe. Just because your country failed to implement a system properly for whatever reason doesn't mean the system is evil.


Europe is not a country, please specify one. The price of free college, a minimum 40% income tax and 20% VAT is a ruined country in my opinion. Or a broke government, like Argentina.

Even if a country can afford free college, it does not mean it is necessary a positive thing.


Doesn't mean its a bad thing either. The fact that you ignore the success stories and just declare something evil is silly.


I've already provided some fail stories, and I'm still waiting for you to give me a success story.
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-02 03:03:24
August 02 2016 03:02 GMT
#92270
Norway, Sweden, Germany just from the top of my head have free or very low cost higher education.
Never Knows Best.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
August 02 2016 03:10 GMT
#92271
On August 02 2016 12:02 Slaughter wrote:
Norway, Sweden, Germany just from the top of my head have free or very low cost higher education.


Add Denmark, Finland, Iceland, the U.K., the Netherlands....
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 02 2016 03:13 GMT
#92272
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 02 2016 03:17 GMT
#92273
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-02 03:22:07
August 02 2016 03:19 GMT
#92274
Wooooo school prayer! Its the 90s all over again! Lets force kids to go to a place by law and then add prayer to the mix. Its voluntary, but you bet the kids that see you sit out the school prayer will ask why you did it.

Man, the GOP just loves that religion + state. Their slogan should be "Wish this was a theocracy!"

Seriously, I thought we were past this shit.

Edit: We honor him by pushing to ban all his family members abroad from visiting his parents.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
August 02 2016 03:23 GMT
#92275
On August 02 2016 12:17 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zw4R8P2jSg


It's so unfortunate for these republican veteran families. I can't see them going out to vote after slander after slander by Trump, who dodged the vietnam draft by feigning injury. Mike Pence on full janitorial duty this week.
rip passion
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 02 2016 03:28 GMT
#92276


Meanwhile, Biden continues to be majestic.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 02 2016 03:41 GMT
#92277
Back in 1968, at the age of 22, Donald J. Trump seemed the picture of health.

He stood 6 feet 2 inches with an athletic build; had played football, tennis and squash; and was taking up golf. His medical history was unblemished, aside from a routine appendectomy when he was 10.

But after he graduated from college in the spring of 1968, making him eligible to be drafted and sent to Vietnam, he received a diagnosis that would change his path: bone spurs in his heels.

The diagnosis resulted in a coveted 1-Y medical deferment that fall, exempting him from military service as the United States was undertaking huge troop deployments to Southeast Asia, inducting about 300,000 men into the military that year.

The deferment was one of five Mr. Trump received during Vietnam. The others were for education.

His experience during the era is drawing new scrutiny after the Muslim American parents of a soldier who was killed in Iraq publicly questioned whether Mr. Trump had ever sacrificed for his country. In an emotional speech at the Democratic National Convention last week, the soldier’s father, Khizr Khan, directly addressed Mr. Trump, the Republican presidential nominee, saying, “You have sacrificed nothing and no one.”

Mr. Trump’s public statements about his draft experience sometimes conflict with his Selective Service records, and he is often hazy in recalling details.

In an interview with The New York Times last month, Mr. Trump said the bone spurs had been “temporary” — a “minor” malady that had not had a meaningful impact on him. He said he had visited a doctor who provided him a letter for draft officials, who granted him the medical exemption. He could not remember the doctor’s name.

“I had a doctor that gave me a letter — a very strong letter on the heels,” Mr. Trump said in the interview.

Asked to provide The Times with a copy of the letter, which he had obtained after his fourth student deferment, Mr. Trump said he would have to look for it. A spokeswoman later did not respond to repeated requests for copies of it.

The Selective Service records that remain in the National Archives — many have been discarded — do not specify what medical condition exempted Mr. Trump from military service.

Mr. Trump has described the condition as heel spurs, which are protrusions caused by calcium built up on the heel bone, treated through stretching, orthotics or sometimes surgery.

Mr. Trump said that he could not recall exactly when he was no longer bothered by the spurs, but that he had not had an operation for the problem.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46112 Posts
August 02 2016 04:02 GMT
#92278
On August 02 2016 12:17 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zw4R8P2jSg


Pence is soooo boring but I really feel bad for him that his job is to do damage control for Trump x.x
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46112 Posts
August 02 2016 04:03 GMT
#92279
On August 02 2016 12:28 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/vp/status/760250205191012352

Meanwhile, Biden continues to be majestic.


If he were running instead of Hillary, this election would already be over in favor of the Democrats. What a guy.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Kyadytim
Profile Joined March 2009
United States886 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-02 04:15:18
August 02 2016 04:12 GMT
#92280
On August 02 2016 11:48 GoTuNk! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2016 11:42 a_flayer wrote:
It is mind boggling to me that "socialism" is seen as something bad by some people.

Yeah, lets not be social about things. Lets not take care of each other. Lets be dicks and cunts instead. People seem to forget that the tribes of old have expanded into millions of people and now we must take care of each other instead of just our tiny little tribe of 100 people. You can't let the "they're not within my tribe so I don't need to give a shit about them" lead your way of thinking in this day and age.


It seems you have not read any history or understand anything on how the world works, and simply like the word "social".

Capitalism is freely doing business with other people, and benefiting each other. Withing that context, charity is voluntarily giving to others. freely.

Socialism is a dictatorship of the state that confiscates from one group of people to give it to other group of people. It has nothing voluntary, or free. The nasty side effects of it can be seen on non-african countries where people starve to death, like North Korea or more recently, Venezuela.

Capitalism is a system under which (most) people who have capital can leverage that to extract further capital from society to the detriment of those without capital and society at large. It's been that way from the very start, and before workers pushed for reforms with the power of numbers against the less numerous capital holders via democratic government, they worked in factories that had no little to regard for their safety for 16 hours a day, 6 days a week.
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