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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On August 01 2016 08:10 Gorsameth wrote: Are you ok with Trump ordering you to commit war crimes? Would you purposefully seek to kill women and children if ordered to do so by your commander in chief Donald Trump? Let me ask you, because i'm actually interested. Did you serve, at all? | ||
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
Do you think trump cares about "how it works"? I can see him ordering soldiers to kill woman and children to hit the evil evil terrorists where it hurts most. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21937 Posts
The west actively benefits from the ISIS war. It keeps the terrorists busy and sends all the bad people there into a big meatgrinder. Hillary is unlikely to want to break up that situation by direct intervention, even if she is a warhawk. Trump on the other hand has openly advocated for fighting ISIS and commit war crimes by purposefully targeting civilians, and then double downed on it when confronted. He might have walked it back by now, hard to keep track of his ever shifting stances. I know which of the two sounds less likely to send you into a war. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21937 Posts
On August 01 2016 08:17 m4ini wrote: Let me ask you, because i'm actually interested. Did you serve, at all? We Dutch barely have a military to speak off, No i didn't serve. I also don't see how it is relevant to the point that Trump has stated he wishes to have the US army commit war crimes by targeting civilians. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On August 01 2016 08:21 Gorsameth wrote: We Dutch barely have a military to speak off, No i didn't serve. I also don't see how it is relevant to the point that Trump has stated he wishes to have the US army commit war crimes by targeting civilians. Because he can wish whatever he wants. It won't be done. Like, what do people like you actually think what soldiers do? Mindless drones? What if he orders every liberal soldier to commit suicide, you think suddenly they drop like flies? No soldier, and no commander, will run head first into being prosecuted as a war criminal. And that decision is not up to trump, but military courts. edit: And i don't think i'll lean myself too far out of the window if i tell you that Templar, as much as i constantly disagree with him, will not "hunt down women and children". Even if ordered. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
The deep waters off the coast of California could become home to the country’s largest offshore wind energy project and a test case for a technology that is still in its infancy. The 765-megawatt project, proposed by Seattle-based Trident Winds, would sit about 25 miles off California’s central coast, near the town of Cambria. If built, it will be larger than the 630-megawatt London Array off the coast of Kent, – the world’s largest working offshore wind farm that began operating in 2013. The Trident project, which could power more than 200,000 homes, reflects an interest by the US to embrace offshore wind energy as part of a broader strategy to develop low-carbon electricity sources. The country has no offshore wind farms, though a number of projects are in the research phase to determine their profitability. The very first project to come online in the US is under construction off the coast of Rhode Island: the 30-megawatt Block Island wind farm that is expected to begin operating later this year. Offshore wind development already has taken off in Europe and other parts of the world. The UK, for example, has installed more than 5 gigawatts of offshore wind power plants, meeting 10% of its total energy demand. “It’s just another very valuable resource that not only will be benefiting energy generation, but will create a new industry in the state of California,” says Alla Weinstein, CEO of Trident Winds. Trident is proposing an unprecedented project in a state that has frowned on coastal energy development ever since a 1969 blowout at an offshore oil drilling platform near Santa Barbara, which released more than 3m gallons of crude oil into the waters. The resulting images of soiled beaches and oily seabirds were splashed around the world and helped launch the modern environmental movement. Recent attempts to build machines to harness the power of ocean currents off the state’s coast also drowned in failure as they ran into technical and financial problems and protests from local communities. California has some of the world’s toughest coastal development regulations. The state’s first large seawater desalination project, for example, took more than six years to win government approval and survived 14 lawsuits before construction started. Source | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21937 Posts
On August 01 2016 08:23 m4ini wrote: Because he can wish whatever he wants. It won't be done. Like, what do people like you actually think what soldiers do? Mindless drones? What if he orders every liberal soldier to commit suicide, you think suddenly they drop like flies? No soldier, and no commander, will run head first into being prosecuted as a war criminal. And that decision is not up to trump, but military courts. edit: And i don't think i'll lean myself too far out of the window if i tell you that Templar, as much as i constantly disagree with him, will not "hunt down women and children". Even if ordered. My point was that Templar states he trusts Trump more as his boss then Hillary. I am indeed no soldier but I sure would not trust my commander if he has publicly advocated for war crimes, regardless of how likely he is to give that order (or have it followed). | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On August 01 2016 08:26 Gorsameth wrote: My point was that Templar states he trusts Trump more as his boss then Hillary. I am indeed no soldier but I sure would not trust my commander if he has publicly advocated for war crimes, regardless of how likely he is to give that order (or have it followed). No, that's correct. As a soldier, i wouldn't trust Trump either. Nor would i trust HRC, btw. As a soldier, you really don't trust any politician, from experience. That being said, i wouldn't actually be too sure that Trump is more likely to send me to war. Or put differently, i don't think HRC would be less likely. Because as you rather accurately described, Trump is a bullshitter. Hillary is a Warhawk. Although: there's not much that could happen for a deployment. If for example Iran would start and try to get a nuke, both would intervene in full force. HRC already announced that a year ago, and Trump, well.. He's trump, so i assume the exact same. edit: in regards to ISIS, neither will send "boots". That i'm pretty convinced about. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On August 01 2016 08:34 Nevuk wrote: I think HRC is probably more likely to start an excessive level of small-scale conflicts. I think Trump is more likely to launch a nuke randomly. Thank god that this is not how it works. He doesn't have "the red button" in his drawer labeled "launch nuke randomly". | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On August 01 2016 08:00 Plansix wrote: Why do you assume every comment about voting for Trump is about you? Trump is more isolationist that Clinton. So while I believe Trump is very likely to be the type of leader to over-respond to incidents, if no one bothers the US he won't actively leave it. Much like Sanders, I just don't believe Trump really cares all that much about brown people killing each other in that region. Lots to fear from Trump. Actively engaging in peace keeping missions and "law and order" missions on behalf of the UN will not be one of them. Saying that--I think it would take just one good terror strike on an something even seemingly American for Trump to want to do a vengeance invasion. | ||
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Chris1
44 Posts
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On August 01 2016 08:45 Nyxisto wrote: Trump's completely chaotic course on anything goes pretty much against the Washington dogma of being predictable above anything else as far as foreign policy is concerned. I remember the kind of criticism Obama received for not following through on his 'red line'. Compared to this Trump is pure entropy. There's not even any point to argue about what he's potentially going to do because it's all conjecture. Our foreign policy up to this point has been awful, and your country especially has seen the aftermath via refugee influx due to all of the power vacuums that the USA helped create. Isolationist conjecture is actually an improvement over what we have currently. On a side note the EU needs to restrict immigration completely from a lot of the high risk countries in the middle east for Trump's immigration ban to be effective. Otherwise they will just abuse the open border policy of the EU before infiltrating the US. Either way this vetting process needs to be improved, and I am curious on how we can accomplish that. Just like the wall, Trump's ban on immigration at the moment is going to be marginally effective and more symbolic than anything. However I'd say it's at least the right direction. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On August 01 2016 08:24 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: How are people complaining of an offshore site 40 miles out in the ocean? Source Because wind turbines in the ocean are a complete unknown in terms of environmental impact. We simply don't know how the sound effects the marine life and what long term effects it will have on that ecosystem. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On August 01 2016 08:57 biology]major wrote: Our foreign policy up to this point has been awful, and your country especially has seen the aftermath via refugee influx due to all of the power vacuums that the USA helped create. Isolationist conjecture is actually an improvement over what we have currently. On a side note the EU needs to restrict immigration completely from a lot of the high risk countries in the middle east for Trump's immigration ban to be effective. Otherwise they will just abuse the open border policy of the EU before infiltrating the US. Either way this vetting process needs to be improved, and I am curious on how we can accomplish that. Just like the wall, Trump's ban on immigration at the moment is going to be marginally effective and more symbolic than anything. However I'd say it's at least the right direction. Even if you'd assume that the whole ME mess is a result of US foreign policy (which probably isn't true) this doesn't say anything about the future. There's no reason to assume that the Democrats or Hillary would start more wars than Trump. There exists no political will in the US to be more active in the ME, especially with ground troops, and the current administration has been slowly withdrawing anyway. The relevant points are Eastern European defence and the pacific region. Regarding the former Trump's position is disastrous, especially for Europe and if you're upset about China a lot you should like the Obama administration because they've single-handedly started the pivot to Asia over the last eight years. What Trump's position on the pacific region is nobody knows because he just keeps saying "China" over and over This is also why Trump's TPP stance makes no sense. It's essentially a political tool to get ahead of China's efforts in the pacific region in regards to trade. If you're scared of China's economic development you should support a candidate that supports TPP. | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9135 Posts
On August 01 2016 07:58 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I'm currently deployed right now and believe I'm more likely to have to deploy again under Clinton than Trump. What makes you believe that? I'll have you recall that Trump said "we will rebuild our depleted military" less than 2 weeks ago in conjunction with the whole 'ISIS is winning' shtick. And there are 0 reasons for you to have more military at home. | ||
KwarK
United States43187 Posts
True, but Trump did say that that's how it works and that he would order the military to commit war crimes if he were commander in chief. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On August 01 2016 08:57 biology]major wrote: Our foreign policy up to this point has been awful, and your country especially has seen the aftermath via refugee influx due to all of the power vacuums that the USA helped create. Isolationist conjecture is actually an improvement over what we have currently. On a side note the EU needs to restrict immigration completely from a lot of the high risk countries in the middle east for Trump's immigration ban to be effective. Otherwise they will just abuse the open border policy of the EU before infiltrating the US. Either way this vetting process needs to be improved, and I am curious on how we can accomplish that. Just like the wall, Trump's ban on immigration at the moment is going to be marginally effective and more symbolic than anything. However I'd say it's at least the right direction. The vetting process is in fact very thorough, and doesn't really need any changes. The problem with Syria is that, due it being an unstable war zone, you can't do the usual kind of vetting. You can't go check up on their claims, check in with their friends/neighbours, look through town records. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On August 01 2016 08:56 Chris1 wrote: The lady with the same mind set as Hilary, she even spoke at the DNC convention and are apparently close friends. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE I think it a crying shame that for all the fucked up things she has done as SoS, she is most famous merely for being a woman in a position of high office. | ||
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