EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4598
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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oBlade
United States6090 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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Godwrath
Spain10142 Posts
On July 31 2016 23:14 Thieving Magpie wrote: If only she didn't have a multi-decade track record of voting on progressive stances despite what she has to say at the time. If only 60% of the progressives didn't already agree with her stances. If only she didn't already have close ties with fellow progressives who also have been working to push their agendas. If only laws and government was decided not by one person but by hundreds of people working in conjunction keeping checks and balances on each other. If only it wasn't the local elections that helped dictate what gets passed and the president was just there to veto if crazy things comes to pass. The one person you want to be flexible is the person who isn't writing the laws, but is there to make sure the laws that pass are things acceptable to the public. And then you read the original post from me you quoted where i specifically say " I am not saying Hillary is flip flopping", and i am explaining the argument so people can stop talking over themselves and show the record where she had changed stances and show how she contributed to those, so you can convince them that she is trustworthy, instead of just telling them being flexible is good (which it isn't inherently true). And by you, i don't mean you specifically. And the "she didn't manage to push for it". You have her record on what and how she voted, or what she campaigned for and what she passed on. That's the only factual arguments you can make for her, otherwise if you are talking about a politician who is changing stances often, you are just talking about subjectivity and perception, not true statements, and certainly it doesn't allow you to make any judgement on anyone for feeling distrust towards that candidate. Anyways, Whitedog put it much better than i could earlier in the thread. You should address him instead. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22308 Posts
On August 01 2016 05:55 On_Slaught wrote: I hope Stewart issues a challenge. Stewart has probably forgotten more about the world than Trump knows. Those tweets are 3 years old. And Jon certainly doesn't feel like getting into a pissing contest with an emotional 3 year old. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On August 01 2016 05:49 oBlade wrote: https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/327076720425451523 https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/330360556362018816 Trump is a madman. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
posting 3 year old tweets is annoying. I'd rather stick to current tweets, or if using old ones, note clearly that they're old; otherwise some people don't notice that it's an old tweet which causes useless discussion. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On August 01 2016 05:53 Nyxisto wrote: Is this the Jewish version of "Barrack Hussein Obama?!" Basically, a lot of online republican commentators refer to him as Liebowitz and call him a self-hating jew, etc. It's pretty predictable. Those are 3 years old. On August 01 2016 06:02 Gorsameth wrote: Those tweets are 3 years old. And Jon certainly doesn't feel like getting into a pissing contest with an emotional 3 year old. He did come back for a sort of related thing on Colbert's show recently, criticizing Hannity for being a hypocrite about Trump, and he is making some sort of animated show for HBO currently, not sure when it comes out. I don't think he has any issues getting into pissing matches with Trump. Makes me really wish he hadn't left the daily show. | ||
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MasterCynical
505 Posts
Why? He is 100% right about the issues around the world and in America. $19trillion debt and awful trade deals. ISIS unleashed onto the world by terrible intervention in the middle eas. A lot of people coming from Syra are bad people. just look at this--900 syrians arrested in britain now. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1528756/hundreds-of-syrians-in-uk-arrested-over-string-of-offences-including-rape-and-child-abuse/ TPP is horrible. Not just for the US, but every country involved. The drugs and crime coming through the mexico-US border is incredible. you won't believe it. No one in US politics was even talking about this before he came onto the show. So yeah... Trump could walk on stage with a Nazi outfit for all I care. He has my support over the current establishment and Hilary. | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9204 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45765 Posts
On August 01 2016 07:02 MasterCynical wrote: Trump could spout as much hate, racism, bigotry, etc, etc as much as he wants, but I will support him to the end. Why? He is 100% right about the issues around the world and in America. $19trillion debt and awful trade deals. You trust someone who's declared bankruptcy several times in his private businesses, who wants the USA to default on its debt, and whose economic plans will add tens of trillions of dollars to the national debt? That's absolutely not the way to go financially. ISIS unleashed onto the world by terrible intervention in the middle eas. You make it sound like Hillary or other politicians don't really think ISIS is a big deal o.O TPP is horrible. Not just for the US, but every country involved. Hillary and Tim Kaine now both oppose the TPP. The drugs and crime coming through the mexico-US border is incredible. you won't believe it. No one in US politics was even talking about this before he came onto the show. Actually, the entire Republican party was overhyping that nonsense, but I'd love for you to post some statistics that defend your statement. | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
On August 01 2016 07:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: You trust someone who's declared bankruptcy several times in his private businesses, who wants the USA to default on its debt, and whose economic plans will add tens of trillions of dollars to the national debt? That's absolutely not the way to go financially. You make it sound like Hillary or other politicians don't really think ISIS is a big deal o.O Hillary and Tim Kaine now both oppose the TPP. Actually, the entire Republican party was overhyping that nonsense, but I'd love for you to post some statistics that defend your statement. On the drug issue + Show Spoiler +, though not Mexico's fault, much more an issue caused by the US. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The only way this isn't the case is if someone can condense their answer into a single sound bite like "build a wall". Unfortunately, the only answers that can be so condensed are ones that don't actually solve the problem because as it turns out, if a problem is complex enough that people spend their entire careers trying to come up with a solution to it, it's probably not that easy. The idea that nobody in Washington was thinking about these issues before Trump walked into the room is ludicrous. Politicians not campaigning about something doesn't mean they aren't working on it, Trump's just the only person giving answers that are dumb enough for people to understand. The reality is that most voters being stupid and uninformed on most issues means that complex, intelligent answers don't win you votes. It's easier to campaign on things that voters understand, which is why mainstream campaigns tend to overcentralize on certain issues where they can feed 5 second sound bites to the media (largely social ones). | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45765 Posts
On August 01 2016 07:18 Dark_Chill wrote: On the drug issue + Show Spoiler +, though not Mexico's fault, much more an issue caused by the US. Agreed. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10880 Posts
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MasterCynical
505 Posts
You trust someone who's declared bankruptcy several times in his private businesses, who wants the USA to default on its debt, and whose economic plans will add tens of trillions of dollars to the national debt? That's absolutely not the way to go financially. I 100% trust him. You can cherry pick his failures and dumb comments he doesn't think before saying, but he's more successful than most people. For every failure, he's had countless more success stories that the media never mentions. That's business. You have to win more than you lose. Most businesses or businessmen never wins 100% of the time. You make it sound like Hillary or other politicians don't really think ISIS is a big deal o.O They are the ones who created this whole mess in the first place with the horrible wars. I wouldn't trust her decisions anything related to the middle east Hillary and Tim Kaine now both oppose the TPP. Do you really believe that? Hillary is completely bought out by special interests and lobbyists who pushed tpp in the first place. She'll get TPP through one way or another. Actually, the entire Republican party was overhyping that nonsense, but I'd love for you to post some statistics that defend your statement. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/09/16/crime-wave-elusive-data-shows-frightening-toll-illegal-immigrant-criminals.html | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On August 01 2016 07:27 Velr wrote: If you support trump and your reason isn' "i want to see the world burn" or among these lines your either not thinking and just vote for the d/r or you are retarded. Good points. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45765 Posts
There has been no evidence to suggest that Trump understands the US economy and the national debt. On the contrary, things he does with his companies aren't perfectly transferrable to entire countries, and he doesn't understand the differences: Are Trump’s explanations coherent? For starters, experts gave Trump -- who has experience with corporate debt but not government debt -- poor marks for articulating his case. "Neither interview makes sense," said Neil Buchanan, a George Washington University law professor and author of The Debt Ceiling Disasters. "The statements are neither clear nor coherent," agreed Paolo Mauro, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics and a visiting professor at Johns Hopkins University Carey Business School. Charles W. Mooney Jr., a law professor at the University of Pennsylvania, said Trump "seems to confound concepts of ‘discount,’ ‘refinance,’ and ‘renegotiate’ just as he does with every other concept he has ever addressed." And Brad W. Setser, a senior fellow at the Council of Foreign Relations and the deputy assistant secretary for international economic analysis at the U.S. Treasury from 2011 to 2015, called Trump’s comments "lots of very loose talk on a subject where there shouldn't be loose talk." What’s renegotiation? Once they had studied the transcript, most of the experts we contacted said their impression was that he was ruling out "renegotiation" but opening the door to "refinancing." Confused yet? We were. Let’s discuss renegotiation first. Renegotiation (sometimes called "restructuring") would occur if a country had already defaulted on its debts, or was about to default, and then negotiated with its creditors so they would accept a percentage of the amount they were owed, rather than the full amount. Going this route would be considered a disaster for the U.S. economy, and ultimately for the international economy that depends on a strong United States. ~ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/may/16/closer-look-donald-trumps-comments-about-refinanci/ And what makes you think that Trump- who is the least diplomatic, most unprofessional, and most tactless candidate we've ever seen- would be able to get things done with other countries? He thinks that he can just bend other foreign leaders to his well; he's in for a rude awakening. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22308 Posts
On August 01 2016 07:29 MasterCynical wrote: Do you really believe that? Hillary is completely bought out by special interests and lobbyists who pushed tpp in the first place. She'll get TPP through one way or another. So instead of the person who you believe is bought, you vote for the person who is doing the buying. Smart. cut out the middleman. In 4 (or heaven forbid 8) years Trump is back to being a businessman. I'm sure you can trust him to totally not try to pass laws or treaties that are in his favor as a businessman. /s | ||
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