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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Shale oil is going to be a profitable and large industry for decades and there's nothing that can be done about it sorry haters You mean aside from a future successful vilification drive and outright banning from the heavy hand of government. Isn't that one of the big goals of the newspaper attack pieces, after all? They're trying hard, but without substantial success in that area yet. Gotta save the planet by slowing the extraction of fossil fuels from the ground. | ||
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Livelovedie
United States492 Posts
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
typical. | ||
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farvacola
United States18832 Posts
On September 13 2013 02:38 Livelovedie wrote: I am always amazed at how passionately people are against the estate tax. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/wal-marts-waltons-maintain-billionaire-040100941.html The yahoo comment section has a life of its own though I guess. That's because estate isn't too far from property, and Jesus fuck, keep yo big dirty government hands off mah propertay. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On September 13 2013 02:37 Danglars wrote: You mean aside from a future successful vilification drive and outright banning from the heavy hand of government. Isn't that one of the big goals of the newspaper attack pieces, after all? They're trying hard, but without substantial success in that area yet. Gotta save the planet by slowing the extraction of fossil fuels from the ground. too much money for the neo-luddites and the other greens and the ex-commies and the still-commies-but-they-dont-like-to-admit-it and the loud-and-proud-we're-still-commies to stop it shale oil is a wonderful example of the inertia of government being left in the dust by private industry, before the civilization haters could even try to stop it shale oil business exploded everywhere and it's too big to stop now yes because they are happy living in simulacrum land and nobody actually wants to be the ome holding the hot potato when reality starts entering the picture and you actually start doing things in the real world typical. generalized egotistical apocalyptic whining with a stale analogy and a weak hook in that exasperated tone only the narcissistic use towards other adults as it is generally considered very impolite when not reserved for scolding 4 year olds. one word ending that reinforces the attitude. | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On September 13 2013 02:30 sam!zdat wrote: liquidate their interests. that's what you do in a ponzi scheme also. If what igne is saying is true and it's simply overvalued, than what you say would also be true and so it proves nothing Drilling companies often sell productive wells to fund new drilling activity. If that sale is just overvalued it's not a big deal. The buyer will take a non cash charge and the | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
EDIT: Also, the typical Bakken spacing unit is being authorized for 8 wells, with some of the most productive tracts getting the okay to put in 12 wells. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On September 13 2013 02:47 JonnyBNoHo wrote: Drilling companies often sell productive wells to fund new drilling activity. If that sale is just overvalued it's not a big deal. The buyer will take a non cash charge and the Can you imagine the costs we'd have to absorb if "worms" existed in North Dakota? >_> Anyways, there isn't much of an industry-wide bubble because of shale drilling. You have a great technological breakthrough and adoption rate, mixed with huge amounts of capital flowing around the globe, and faltering economies that give that capital fewer places to go. On one hand, you can argue that continued economic weakness will spell disaster for these wells since the "growth" just won't come as EU/China spirals further downward, and we'll get even more gluts. Or you can take the popular view that growth is just over the horizon for the US, EU, China, Brazil, Russia, Australia, Africa, etc., which comes with a HUGE demand for petroleum and its products. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On September 13 2013 02:54 sam!zdat wrote: right. There's a lot of liquidity floating around with no lines of productive investment (crisis of overaccumulation). Something opens up and there's a bubble. Then the various factions of capital fight it out for whose assets have to be devalued. It will be the smaller interests who buy these wells who are left holding the bag I assume if there were no lines of productive investment wells would not be drilled for the sole purpose of being ready for a price rise it's really hard to have a bubble when prices are depressed because of a huge supply glut even though prices have gone up some in the last year they're still several times smaller than what they were before the boom really got going shale boom is really only in stage 1.5, the ceiling for domestic demand hasn't been hit yet and exporting either the oil or natural gas extracted is going to be the next big development it is just getting off the ground really now | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On September 13 2013 02:54 sam!zdat wrote: right. There's a lot of liquidity floating around with no lines of productive investment (crisis of overaccumulation). Something opens up and there's a bubble. Then the various factions of capital fight it out for whose assets have to be devalued. It will be the smaller interests who buy these wells who are left holding the bag I assume So far it's the big oil majors who have been over buying. That's normal - smaller firms often innovate and then bigger ones buy it out at a higher price. That high priced buyout creates the incentive for money to go into high risk startups (in this case wildcatters). Decoding Shell’s Shale Write-Down Shells write-down of around $2 billion on the value of “liquids-rich” shale assets in North America may seem like a startling development, given the current unbounded optimism about the U.S. oil boom. ... Link | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On September 13 2013 03:02 sam!zdat wrote: wells being drilled for prospect of price rise is precisel what you would expect in a crisis of accumulation when there is lots of liquidity and no lines of investment. Cf what askfj says above Well, not even most of it is in hopes of a huge future payout. Right now, the extra supply is bringing stability to a market that is largely tied to troubled countries (like those in the Middle East). It's not going to cause prices to crash down due to market saturation any time soon, and we would need sustained economic weakness to see many of these investments go into the red. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On September 13 2013 03:02 sam!zdat wrote: wells being drilled for prospect of price rise is precisel what you would expect in a crisis of accumulation when there is lots of liquidity and no lines of investment. Cf what askfj says above sadly no energy commodity producers do it all the time they've gotten burned in the past (talking about decades and decades ago) too often by not being able to take advantage of swiftly rising demand or production cuts abroad they have a long memory for such things future production capacity is a line of investment not talking about a steel mill it's an oil well, it's pretty cost-effective to build it and leave it sit until producing from that particular well makes sense according to the market demand and supply can swing wildly (more often than not demand rising swiftly but steadily and supply short or medium-term being cut because nigerian muslim terrorists attack a pipeline or iraqi ones do or whatever, something is always happening to put a strain on energy commodity supply capacity) and it makes more sense to be prepared to more or less instantly ramp up production than trying to do it from square one | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On September 13 2013 03:02 sam!zdat wrote: wells being drilled for prospect of price rise is precisel what you would expect in a crisis of accumulation when there is lots of liquidity and no lines of investment. Cf what askfj says above Expecting a price rise from developing an asset is normal, regardless of any 'crisis of accumulation' or not. On September 13 2013 02:57 aksfjh wrote: Can you imagine the costs we'd have to absorb if "worms" existed in North Dakota? >_> Anyways, there isn't much of an industry-wide bubble because of shale drilling. You have a great technological breakthrough and adoption rate, mixed with huge amounts of capital flowing around the globe, and faltering economies that give that capital fewer places to go. On one hand, you can argue that continued economic weakness will spell disaster for these wells since the "growth" just won't come as EU/China spirals further downward, and we'll get even more gluts. Or you can take the popular view that growth is just over the horizon for the US, EU, China, Brazil, Russia, Australia, Africa, etc., which comes with a HUGE demand for petroleum and its products. Sand worms would be terrible, but just imagine Sam riding one and declaring himself the Kwisatz Haderach XD I'm going to add to your second paragraph that there are also questions over supply. The US has been increasing supply, but other producers have been faltering. Is there currently an oil glut? I've heard of a gas glut (hence low prices) but not of an oil one. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
you don't understand what a crisis of overaccumulation is though and you won't, you may have noticed I've been trying to just ignore you because everything you say is just ugly and pointless haha yes the maud dib, I am class traitor and everything. Btw xdaunt I wonder if you know my dad, you just might. Maybe texas and colorado different worlds for oil and gas lawyers though, idk | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On September 13 2013 03:16 JonnyBNoHo wrote: Expecting a price rise from developing an asset is normal, regardless of any 'crisis of accumulation' or not. Sand worms would be terrible, but just imagine Sam riding one and declaring himself the Kwisatz Haderach XD I'm going to add to your second paragraph that there are also questions over supply. The US has been increasing supply, but other producers have been faltering. Is there currently an oil glut? I've heard of a gas glut (hence low prices) but not of an oil one. Oil is harder to have an over-abundance of, because a drop in prices makes certain goods/chemicals more viable to manufacture, as well as much easier to store and transport. The glut is far less devastating, but still has downward pressure on prices. Gas is a little harder to manipulate, transport, and store, so overproduction is easy to reach, and you can have companies that will literally burn off excess at a cost instead of attempting to sell it. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On September 13 2013 03:33 sam!zdat wrote: capitalism: the only economic system, ever, where having too much of something is a problem Is that true? If so I'll highlight it as one of capitalism's premier qualities. Why would you want to produce more of something than you want? | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On September 13 2013 03:33 sam!zdat wrote: capitalism: the only economic system, ever, where having too much of something is a problem Not true. Having too much of something in a communist system can also be a problem. It's a waste of resources, and the excess goods can't be allocated fast enough to prevent spoilage or destruction. | ||
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