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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Soap
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil1546 Posts
May 09 2016 20:51 GMT
#75501
On May 10 2016 05:31 Sbrubbles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2016 04:54 zlefin wrote:
In response to electing Trump to signify contempt of the current establishment: This is why I think there should be an option on ballots for None of the above; with real consequences if None of the above wins.
So that there's a way for people to express contempt/disagreement if they don't like any of the choices, and do so in a meaningful way.


In Brazil we have that option, but in practical terms it's never mattered because it requires too much social coordination for None of the above to actually win.

Oh, and the consequences are redoing the elections actually it's a grey area (conflicting legislation), nobody is 100% sure.


No, we don't. http://english.tse.jus.br/noticias-tse-en/2014/Agosto/2014-elections-elections-not-to-be-declared-null-and-void-even-if-more-than-50-of-votes-cast-are-deemed-invalid
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12583 Posts
May 09 2016 20:54 GMT
#75502
On May 10 2016 05:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On the cultural side, I deeply resent the current oppression that the left has imposed on political and societal discourse. We presently can't even have intelligent discussions about things like immigration policy for fear of getting pulled over by the PC police.


Must be hard out there for you, the oppression must be overwhelming. I admire your strength in the face of such adversity. I hope one day America can put an end to such oppression, surely no American deserves to live under such a yoke and no American can stand idle while others do.


It's good to know that even though you weren't able to get Bernie over Hillary in a democratic primary, you still unequivocally rule over what people are allowed to say in the entirety of America.
No will to live, no wish to die
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
May 09 2016 20:58 GMT
#75503
On May 10 2016 05:54 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2016 05:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
On the cultural side, I deeply resent the current oppression that the left has imposed on political and societal discourse. We presently can't even have intelligent discussions about things like immigration policy for fear of getting pulled over by the PC police.


Must be hard out there for you, the oppression must be overwhelming. I admire your strength in the face of such adversity. I hope one day America can put an end to such oppression, surely no American deserves to live under such a yoke and no American can stand idle while others do.


It's good to know that even though you weren't able to get Bernie over Hillary in a democratic primary, you still unequivocally rule over what people are allowed to say in the entirety of America.


There is a way to talk respectfully and that is required for an intellectual debate. Anyone can shout and yell platitudes from a perch but an actual intellectual conversation requires respect from both because conversations require one to able to both talk AND listen and if you are being loud and brash and disrespectful you give me zero reason to believe you are willing to listen.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24394 Posts
May 09 2016 20:59 GMT
#75504
On May 10 2016 05:54 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2016 05:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
On the cultural side, I deeply resent the current oppression that the left has imposed on political and societal discourse. We presently can't even have intelligent discussions about things like immigration policy for fear of getting pulled over by the PC police.


Must be hard out there for you, the oppression must be overwhelming. I admire your strength in the face of such adversity. I hope one day America can put an end to such oppression, surely no American deserves to live under such a yoke and no American can stand idle while others do.


It's good to know that even though you weren't able to get Bernie over Hillary in a democratic primary, you still unequivocally rule over what people are allowed to say in the entirety of America.


Haha, I'm thinking you misunderstand what I'm saying, not your fault though.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-09 21:10:09
May 09 2016 21:09 GMT
#75505
Oregon standoff leader Ammon Bundy was a peaceful protester advocating the constitutional beliefs of US supreme court justices Clarence Thomas and the late Antonin Scalia, according to the jailed activist’s formal defense filed on Monday.

Bundy’s motion to dismiss the federal charges that he led a violent conspiracy against the government with an armed occupation of a wildlife refuge lays the groundwork for a trial that could have a lasting impact on the controversial land-use movement in the west.

On 2 January, Bundy, 40, led a group of activists into the Malheur national wildlife refuge in eastern Oregon to protest the federal government’s treatment of local ranchers. The protesters, some of whom were heavily armed, took over a number of public buildings at the refuge headquarters, launching a standoff with federal authorities that dragged on for 41 days.

Bundy and two-dozen other activists were eventually arrested and now face serious felony charges for using “force” and “threats” to impede the government, which could lead some of them to spend decades behind bars.

“Contrasted with shallow and uninformed media portrayals and government hyperbole, Ammon is not an ‘extremist’ and is not a member of any militia, patriot group, or political land protest organization,” Bundy’s attorneys wrote in the filing. “Mr Bundy is not a ... so-called ‘sovereign citizen,’ and he does not hold anti-government views.”

The new motion claims that Bundy identifies as a “federalist” and an “originalist”, meaning he believes the federal government has overstepped its authority by owning vast swaths of land in the west and has strayed beyond its limited jurisdiction the founders intended.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
May 09 2016 21:14 GMT
#75506
On May 10 2016 05:51 Soap wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2016 05:31 Sbrubbles wrote:
On May 10 2016 04:54 zlefin wrote:
In response to electing Trump to signify contempt of the current establishment: This is why I think there should be an option on ballots for None of the above; with real consequences if None of the above wins.
So that there's a way for people to express contempt/disagreement if they don't like any of the choices, and do so in a meaningful way.


In Brazil we have that option, but in practical terms it's never mattered because it requires too much social coordination for None of the above to actually win.

Oh, and the consequences are redoing the elections actually it's a grey area (conflicting legislation), nobody is 100% sure.


No, we don't. http://english.tse.jus.br/noticias-tse-en/2014/Agosto/2014-elections-elections-not-to-be-declared-null-and-void-even-if-more-than-50-of-votes-cast-are-deemed-invalid

My mistake
Bora Pain minha porra!
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 09 2016 21:15 GMT
#75507
Now comes the next stage of the sovereign citizen/free stater opposition to the federal government. First comes the violent, armed protest. After that comes the endless, poorly drafted and pointless litigation opposing every single one of the government’s pleadings. Where they file appeals to the denial of appeals within the denial of a motion to dismiss, endlessly, until the judge forbids them to do so any more. And then they charge the judge with being biased.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 09 2016 21:28 GMT
#75508
On May 10 2016 05:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2016 04:44 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 03:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:41 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:39 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 09 2016 11:03 xDaunt wrote:
On May 09 2016 10:51 Introvert wrote:
On May 09 2016 10:38 xDaunt wrote:
On May 09 2016 10:34 Introvert wrote:
Only reason the dumb pledge was necessary was because of Trump's whining about being "treated fairly." And he was still hedging even after he signed it. Trump deserves no loyalty, and I assume most of the other 60% of GOP primary voters would agree. Paul Ryan isn't obliged to go along with every asinine comment Trump makes. Especially considering that his own district went against Trump like 2:1.

I have my own issues with Ryan, but his comments were 100% correct and appropriate. If Trump says he doesn't want certain people, then they are released to go elsewhere.

Majorities of republican voters are supporting Trump and his message. If the GOP isn't going to support Trump, then they will be flaunting the will of their voters. I don't think that such action will end well for the GOP.


He didn't have a majority in a single state until New York, if memory serves. He has like 40% of the popular vote. He's deeply polarizing, and chances are, quite toxic. So imo they are smart to stay away. Remember he only got close because of the various front-runner biased state rules.

He hasn't a majority of the vote in the early states because he has been running against a large field. Once the field shrank down to four candidate, he was reliably scoring majorities in the states that he ran. So yes, I think that it is fair to say that a majority of republicans are supporting him now. They may not find him to be their perfect candidate (myself included), but they are going to back him as the best option nonetheless.

You are going to vote for this lunatic?

Wow. Just wow.

Better him than Hillary, who is demonstrably incompetent.

Oh man... I don't even know what to say.

Well, someone (not Churchill) said that the best argument against democracy is a five minutes conversation with the average voter; I guess you are a pretty good illustration. That you can think that someone who didn't bother to utter anything true, that made one burlesque proposal after another, that fuels hatred and bigotry and whose main attributes are to be a vulgar, boastful, and a complete bully is a better choice than one of America's most experienced politician, I am pretty fucking sad for you.

The saddest thing is that you seem like a reasonably well informed person. And that's depressing; to see resentful and completely ignorant people voting for him is bad enough; but that someone able to have more or less a rational discussion is backing up this clown is just beyond me.

Anyway. Germans voted for Hitler, Italians Mussolini, French people are voting for Le Pen and English for Farage. If people decide to go full stupid, there is little to do. I guess that's the price to pay for democracy.

Seriously, voting is a responsibility. Get back to planet earth.

Why I (and many others) support Trump over Hillary really isn't that hard to understand. Those who purport to not understand it are either idiots or liars. Your post is fairly emblematic of the latter possibility. Trump's platform, such as it is, far more closely aligns with my personal views than Hillary's. For that reason alone, I'd rather roll the dice with Trump than vote for Hillary. Second, and to the extent that Trump has personality/character problems, Hillary has a whole freight train's worth of her own, which you are more than happy to overlook. She's a liar. She's crooked. Most importantly, she has a demonstrable record of failure from Hillarycare through her time as Secretary of State (which was particularly bad). It's not like people who support Trump are passing on some prodigy. Hillary is a middling politician at best.

Finally, I want Trump elected as a gigantic "fuck you" to the current political and cultural establishments, which are both rotten. I've railed plenty against the GOP recently, so I'll pass on elaborating there. On the cultural side, I deeply resent the current oppression that the left has imposed on political and societal discourse. We presently can't even have intelligent discussions about things like immigration policy for fear of getting pulled over by the PC police. Trump has already reopened lines of discourse, and his election will cement those gains and accelerate the acceptance of true free speech once again. That, in and of itself, is worth a ride on the Trump train.

Seriously, some of you leftists around here need to spend a good solid five minutes with your heads out of your asses and take the time to actually understand the opposing point of view rather than post drivel such as Biff's above. The level of discourse around here from most of you is fucking sad.

I don't think we have a whole lot to discuss, you and me, so I will politely leave that discussion.

I didn't have you pegged as one of those left wingers who is afflicted with retrograde illiberalism. Looks like I was wrong.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 09 2016 21:34 GMT
#75509
On May 10 2016 06:28 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2016 05:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 10 2016 04:44 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 03:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:41 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:39 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 09 2016 11:03 xDaunt wrote:
On May 09 2016 10:51 Introvert wrote:
On May 09 2016 10:38 xDaunt wrote:
On May 09 2016 10:34 Introvert wrote:
Only reason the dumb pledge was necessary was because of Trump's whining about being "treated fairly." And he was still hedging even after he signed it. Trump deserves no loyalty, and I assume most of the other 60% of GOP primary voters would agree. Paul Ryan isn't obliged to go along with every asinine comment Trump makes. Especially considering that his own district went against Trump like 2:1.

I have my own issues with Ryan, but his comments were 100% correct and appropriate. If Trump says he doesn't want certain people, then they are released to go elsewhere.

Majorities of republican voters are supporting Trump and his message. If the GOP isn't going to support Trump, then they will be flaunting the will of their voters. I don't think that such action will end well for the GOP.


He didn't have a majority in a single state until New York, if memory serves. He has like 40% of the popular vote. He's deeply polarizing, and chances are, quite toxic. So imo they are smart to stay away. Remember he only got close because of the various front-runner biased state rules.

He hasn't a majority of the vote in the early states because he has been running against a large field. Once the field shrank down to four candidate, he was reliably scoring majorities in the states that he ran. So yes, I think that it is fair to say that a majority of republicans are supporting him now. They may not find him to be their perfect candidate (myself included), but they are going to back him as the best option nonetheless.

You are going to vote for this lunatic?

Wow. Just wow.

Better him than Hillary, who is demonstrably incompetent.

Oh man... I don't even know what to say.

Well, someone (not Churchill) said that the best argument against democracy is a five minutes conversation with the average voter; I guess you are a pretty good illustration. That you can think that someone who didn't bother to utter anything true, that made one burlesque proposal after another, that fuels hatred and bigotry and whose main attributes are to be a vulgar, boastful, and a complete bully is a better choice than one of America's most experienced politician, I am pretty fucking sad for you.

The saddest thing is that you seem like a reasonably well informed person. And that's depressing; to see resentful and completely ignorant people voting for him is bad enough; but that someone able to have more or less a rational discussion is backing up this clown is just beyond me.

Anyway. Germans voted for Hitler, Italians Mussolini, French people are voting for Le Pen and English for Farage. If people decide to go full stupid, there is little to do. I guess that's the price to pay for democracy.

Seriously, voting is a responsibility. Get back to planet earth.

Why I (and many others) support Trump over Hillary really isn't that hard to understand. Those who purport to not understand it are either idiots or liars. Your post is fairly emblematic of the latter possibility. Trump's platform, such as it is, far more closely aligns with my personal views than Hillary's. For that reason alone, I'd rather roll the dice with Trump than vote for Hillary. Second, and to the extent that Trump has personality/character problems, Hillary has a whole freight train's worth of her own, which you are more than happy to overlook. She's a liar. She's crooked. Most importantly, she has a demonstrable record of failure from Hillarycare through her time as Secretary of State (which was particularly bad). It's not like people who support Trump are passing on some prodigy. Hillary is a middling politician at best.

Finally, I want Trump elected as a gigantic "fuck you" to the current political and cultural establishments, which are both rotten. I've railed plenty against the GOP recently, so I'll pass on elaborating there. On the cultural side, I deeply resent the current oppression that the left has imposed on political and societal discourse. We presently can't even have intelligent discussions about things like immigration policy for fear of getting pulled over by the PC police. Trump has already reopened lines of discourse, and his election will cement those gains and accelerate the acceptance of true free speech once again. That, in and of itself, is worth a ride on the Trump train.

Seriously, some of you leftists around here need to spend a good solid five minutes with your heads out of your asses and take the time to actually understand the opposing point of view rather than post drivel such as Biff's above. The level of discourse around here from most of you is fucking sad.

I don't think we have a whole lot to discuss, you and me, so I will politely leave that discussion.

I didn't have you pegged as one of those left wingers who is afflicted with retrograde illiberalism. Looks like I was wrong.

Someone politely tells him that they don’t see a lot to be gained by the discussion, XDaunt calls them stupid. As I expected.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 09 2016 21:37 GMT
#75510
On May 10 2016 06:34 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2016 06:28 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 05:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 10 2016 04:44 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 03:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:41 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:39 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 09 2016 11:03 xDaunt wrote:
On May 09 2016 10:51 Introvert wrote:
On May 09 2016 10:38 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
Majorities of republican voters are supporting Trump and his message. If the GOP isn't going to support Trump, then they will be flaunting the will of their voters. I don't think that such action will end well for the GOP.


He didn't have a majority in a single state until New York, if memory serves. He has like 40% of the popular vote. He's deeply polarizing, and chances are, quite toxic. So imo they are smart to stay away. Remember he only got close because of the various front-runner biased state rules.

He hasn't a majority of the vote in the early states because he has been running against a large field. Once the field shrank down to four candidate, he was reliably scoring majorities in the states that he ran. So yes, I think that it is fair to say that a majority of republicans are supporting him now. They may not find him to be their perfect candidate (myself included), but they are going to back him as the best option nonetheless.

You are going to vote for this lunatic?

Wow. Just wow.

Better him than Hillary, who is demonstrably incompetent.

Oh man... I don't even know what to say.

Well, someone (not Churchill) said that the best argument against democracy is a five minutes conversation with the average voter; I guess you are a pretty good illustration. That you can think that someone who didn't bother to utter anything true, that made one burlesque proposal after another, that fuels hatred and bigotry and whose main attributes are to be a vulgar, boastful, and a complete bully is a better choice than one of America's most experienced politician, I am pretty fucking sad for you.

The saddest thing is that you seem like a reasonably well informed person. And that's depressing; to see resentful and completely ignorant people voting for him is bad enough; but that someone able to have more or less a rational discussion is backing up this clown is just beyond me.

Anyway. Germans voted for Hitler, Italians Mussolini, French people are voting for Le Pen and English for Farage. If people decide to go full stupid, there is little to do. I guess that's the price to pay for democracy.

Seriously, voting is a responsibility. Get back to planet earth.

Why I (and many others) support Trump over Hillary really isn't that hard to understand. Those who purport to not understand it are either idiots or liars. Your post is fairly emblematic of the latter possibility. Trump's platform, such as it is, far more closely aligns with my personal views than Hillary's. For that reason alone, I'd rather roll the dice with Trump than vote for Hillary. Second, and to the extent that Trump has personality/character problems, Hillary has a whole freight train's worth of her own, which you are more than happy to overlook. She's a liar. She's crooked. Most importantly, she has a demonstrable record of failure from Hillarycare through her time as Secretary of State (which was particularly bad). It's not like people who support Trump are passing on some prodigy. Hillary is a middling politician at best.

Finally, I want Trump elected as a gigantic "fuck you" to the current political and cultural establishments, which are both rotten. I've railed plenty against the GOP recently, so I'll pass on elaborating there. On the cultural side, I deeply resent the current oppression that the left has imposed on political and societal discourse. We presently can't even have intelligent discussions about things like immigration policy for fear of getting pulled over by the PC police. Trump has already reopened lines of discourse, and his election will cement those gains and accelerate the acceptance of true free speech once again. That, in and of itself, is worth a ride on the Trump train.

Seriously, some of you leftists around here need to spend a good solid five minutes with your heads out of your asses and take the time to actually understand the opposing point of view rather than post drivel such as Biff's above. The level of discourse around here from most of you is fucking sad.

I don't think we have a whole lot to discuss, you and me, so I will politely leave that discussion.

I didn't have you pegged as one of those left wingers who is afflicted with retrograde illiberalism. Looks like I was wrong.

Someone politely tells him that they don’t see a lot to be gained by the discussion, XDaunt calls them stupid. As I expected.

You may want to try reading what I wrote again. I did not call him stupid. My complaint is very different.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 09 2016 21:40 GMT
#75511
On Nov. 3, ExxonMobil dispatched its top lobbyists to Capitol Hill on an urgent mission — tamping down an escalating campaign aimed at making the country’s largest oil company pay a legal and political price for its role in warming the planet.

The meeting marked a striking shift in Exxon’s handling of the controversy. The notion of holding oil companies responsible for global warming, in the same way tobacco companies had to pay billions of dollars in damages over the health effects of cigarettes, had long been seen as a quixotic quest led by scruffy, oil-hating extremists. But POLITICO’s interviews with dozens of activists, industry officials and lawmakers suggest that support for a legal crusade against Exxon is growing far beyond the political fringe — and now poses the biggest existential threat the company has faced in decades.

Just five days before the meeting on Capitol Hill, Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton had urged the Justice Department to investigate whether the petroleum giant spent decades deceiving the public about the threat of climate change. State attorneys general had Exxon in their sights as well, preparing to issue subpoenas that would eventually rope in virtually all of Washington’s conservative policy apparatus. A four-year effort by green activists, scientists and lawyers to turn Big Oil’s biggest player into the poster child for climate change — deliberately patterned after the successful campaign to take down tobacco — was shaking the descendant of John D. Rockefeller’s Standard Oil empire to its core.

So the four Exxon executives arrived at the office of California Democrat Rep. Ted Lieu with one job: convincing four of their most vocal congressional critics that the company wasn’t the polluting villain its enemies were making it out to be.

Exxon supports “sound climate policy” and has tripled its greenhouse-gas cuts since 2008, the executives boasted to the lawmakers in a 10-page glossy presentation, later obtained by POLITICO. Exxon was even on record in favor of a tax on carbon emissions — a climate remedy more radical than anything President Barack Obama has proposed.

The company left empty-handed, though, after refusing to directly answer questions about whether it had suppressed internal research that underscored the threat of climate change while publicly sowing doubt about climate science, according to people in the room.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-09 21:42:24
May 09 2016 21:41 GMT
#75512
On May 10 2016 06:37 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2016 06:34 Plansix wrote:
On May 10 2016 06:28 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 05:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 10 2016 04:44 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 03:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:41 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:39 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 09 2016 11:03 xDaunt wrote:
On May 09 2016 10:51 Introvert wrote:
[quote]

He didn't have a majority in a single state until New York, if memory serves. He has like 40% of the popular vote. He's deeply polarizing, and chances are, quite toxic. So imo they are smart to stay away. Remember he only got close because of the various front-runner biased state rules.

He hasn't a majority of the vote in the early states because he has been running against a large field. Once the field shrank down to four candidate, he was reliably scoring majorities in the states that he ran. So yes, I think that it is fair to say that a majority of republicans are supporting him now. They may not find him to be their perfect candidate (myself included), but they are going to back him as the best option nonetheless.

You are going to vote for this lunatic?

Wow. Just wow.

Better him than Hillary, who is demonstrably incompetent.

Oh man... I don't even know what to say.

Well, someone (not Churchill) said that the best argument against democracy is a five minutes conversation with the average voter; I guess you are a pretty good illustration. That you can think that someone who didn't bother to utter anything true, that made one burlesque proposal after another, that fuels hatred and bigotry and whose main attributes are to be a vulgar, boastful, and a complete bully is a better choice than one of America's most experienced politician, I am pretty fucking sad for you.

The saddest thing is that you seem like a reasonably well informed person. And that's depressing; to see resentful and completely ignorant people voting for him is bad enough; but that someone able to have more or less a rational discussion is backing up this clown is just beyond me.

Anyway. Germans voted for Hitler, Italians Mussolini, French people are voting for Le Pen and English for Farage. If people decide to go full stupid, there is little to do. I guess that's the price to pay for democracy.

Seriously, voting is a responsibility. Get back to planet earth.

Why I (and many others) support Trump over Hillary really isn't that hard to understand. Those who purport to not understand it are either idiots or liars. Your post is fairly emblematic of the latter possibility. Trump's platform, such as it is, far more closely aligns with my personal views than Hillary's. For that reason alone, I'd rather roll the dice with Trump than vote for Hillary. Second, and to the extent that Trump has personality/character problems, Hillary has a whole freight train's worth of her own, which you are more than happy to overlook. She's a liar. She's crooked. Most importantly, she has a demonstrable record of failure from Hillarycare through her time as Secretary of State (which was particularly bad). It's not like people who support Trump are passing on some prodigy. Hillary is a middling politician at best.

Finally, I want Trump elected as a gigantic "fuck you" to the current political and cultural establishments, which are both rotten. I've railed plenty against the GOP recently, so I'll pass on elaborating there. On the cultural side, I deeply resent the current oppression that the left has imposed on political and societal discourse. We presently can't even have intelligent discussions about things like immigration policy for fear of getting pulled over by the PC police. Trump has already reopened lines of discourse, and his election will cement those gains and accelerate the acceptance of true free speech once again. That, in and of itself, is worth a ride on the Trump train.

Seriously, some of you leftists around here need to spend a good solid five minutes with your heads out of your asses and take the time to actually understand the opposing point of view rather than post drivel such as Biff's above. The level of discourse around here from most of you is fucking sad.

I don't think we have a whole lot to discuss, you and me, so I will politely leave that discussion.

I didn't have you pegged as one of those left wingers who is afflicted with retrograde illiberalism. Looks like I was wrong.

Someone politely tells him that they don’t see a lot to be gained by the discussion, XDaunt calls them stupid. As I expected.

You may want to try reading what I wrote again. I did not call him stupid. My complaint is very different.

I am sure I could perform a full breakdown of the specific wording and use of the world “afflicted” as opposed to “subscriber” or “believer” to prove that you meant to imply he has limited mental capacity due his views.

But I don’t have time for that and sometimes it’s nice to cut through the passive aggressive nerd bullshit and just call a spade and spade.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
May 09 2016 21:42 GMT
#75513
would be happy to address criticisms against hillary's platform if people present actual content rather than poorly grounded generalities.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22664 Posts
May 09 2016 21:48 GMT
#75514
On May 10 2016 05:24 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2016 05:03 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On May 10 2016 04:44 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 03:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:41 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:39 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 09 2016 11:03 xDaunt wrote:
On May 09 2016 10:51 Introvert wrote:
On May 09 2016 10:38 xDaunt wrote:
On May 09 2016 10:34 Introvert wrote:
Only reason the dumb pledge was necessary was because of Trump's whining about being "treated fairly." And he was still hedging even after he signed it. Trump deserves no loyalty, and I assume most of the other 60% of GOP primary voters would agree. Paul Ryan isn't obliged to go along with every asinine comment Trump makes. Especially considering that his own district went against Trump like 2:1.

I have my own issues with Ryan, but his comments were 100% correct and appropriate. If Trump says he doesn't want certain people, then they are released to go elsewhere.

Majorities of republican voters are supporting Trump and his message. If the GOP isn't going to support Trump, then they will be flaunting the will of their voters. I don't think that such action will end well for the GOP.


He didn't have a majority in a single state until New York, if memory serves. He has like 40% of the popular vote. He's deeply polarizing, and chances are, quite toxic. So imo they are smart to stay away. Remember he only got close because of the various front-runner biased state rules.

He hasn't a majority of the vote in the early states because he has been running against a large field. Once the field shrank down to four candidate, he was reliably scoring majorities in the states that he ran. So yes, I think that it is fair to say that a majority of republicans are supporting him now. They may not find him to be their perfect candidate (myself included), but they are going to back him as the best option nonetheless.

You are going to vote for this lunatic?

Wow. Just wow.

Better him than Hillary, who is demonstrably incompetent.

Oh man... I don't even know what to say.

Well, someone (not Churchill) said that the best argument against democracy is a five minutes conversation with the average voter; I guess you are a pretty good illustration. That you can think that someone who didn't bother to utter anything true, that made one burlesque proposal after another, that fuels hatred and bigotry and whose main attributes are to be a vulgar, boastful, and a complete bully is a better choice than one of America's most experienced politician, I am pretty fucking sad for you.

The saddest thing is that you seem like a reasonably well informed person. And that's depressing; to see resentful and completely ignorant people voting for him is bad enough; but that someone able to have more or less a rational discussion is backing up this clown is just beyond me.

Anyway. Germans voted for Hitler, Italians Mussolini, French people are voting for Le Pen and English for Farage. If people decide to go full stupid, there is little to do. I guess that's the price to pay for democracy.

Seriously, voting is a responsibility. Get back to planet earth.

Why I (and many others) support Trump over Hillary really isn't that hard to understand. Those who purport to not understand it are either idiots or liars. Your post is fairly emblematic of the latter possibility. Trump's platform, such as it is, far more closely aligns with my personal views than Hillary's. For that reason alone, I'd rather roll the dice with Trump than vote for Hillary. Second, and to the extent that Trump has personality/character problems, Hillary has a whole freight train's worth of her own, which you are more than happy to overlook. She's a liar. She's crooked. Most importantly, she has a demonstrable record of failure from Hillarycare through her time as Secretary of State (which was particularly bad). It's not like people who support Trump are passing on some prodigy. Hillary is a middling politician at best.

Finally, I want Trump elected as a gigantic "fuck you" to the current political and cultural establishments, which are both rotten. I've railed plenty against the GOP recently, so I'll pass on elaborating there. On the cultural side, I deeply resent the current oppression that the left has imposed on political and societal discourse. We presently can't even have intelligent discussions about things like immigration policy for fear of getting pulled over by the PC police. Trump has already reopened lines of discourse, and his election will cement those gains and accelerate the acceptance of true free speech once again. That, in and of itself, is worth a ride on the Trump train.

Seriously, some of you leftists around here need to spend a good solid five minutes with your heads out of your asses and take the time to actually understand the opposing point of view rather than post drivel such as Biff's above. The level of discourse around here from most of you is fucking sad.


If you want to burn up your vote to say "fuck you" to the establishment, then that's your right, but if you're going to do that, you also have to accept ethical responsibility if that "fuck you" ends up completely destroying the welfare of this country when you knowingly voted for someone just to cause political upheaval.

Fair enough. But we are about to wrap up eight years of Obama, and if his presidency tells us anything, it tells us that the political establishment and institutions are remarkably resilient to whatever the president may choose to do. In short, worrying about Trump wrecking the country is largely hyperbolic.

Your right but Obama got a fair bit done with executive orders when institutions did not cooperate. Unless congress unites against Trump this could be repeated.
But most of Trumps damage would be international where the opinion and influence of America would hit all time lows.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 09 2016 21:55 GMT
#75515
On May 10 2016 06:48 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2016 05:24 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 05:03 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On May 10 2016 04:44 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 03:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:41 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:39 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 09 2016 11:03 xDaunt wrote:
On May 09 2016 10:51 Introvert wrote:
On May 09 2016 10:38 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
Majorities of republican voters are supporting Trump and his message. If the GOP isn't going to support Trump, then they will be flaunting the will of their voters. I don't think that such action will end well for the GOP.


He didn't have a majority in a single state until New York, if memory serves. He has like 40% of the popular vote. He's deeply polarizing, and chances are, quite toxic. So imo they are smart to stay away. Remember he only got close because of the various front-runner biased state rules.

He hasn't a majority of the vote in the early states because he has been running against a large field. Once the field shrank down to four candidate, he was reliably scoring majorities in the states that he ran. So yes, I think that it is fair to say that a majority of republicans are supporting him now. They may not find him to be their perfect candidate (myself included), but they are going to back him as the best option nonetheless.

You are going to vote for this lunatic?

Wow. Just wow.

Better him than Hillary, who is demonstrably incompetent.

Oh man... I don't even know what to say.

Well, someone (not Churchill) said that the best argument against democracy is a five minutes conversation with the average voter; I guess you are a pretty good illustration. That you can think that someone who didn't bother to utter anything true, that made one burlesque proposal after another, that fuels hatred and bigotry and whose main attributes are to be a vulgar, boastful, and a complete bully is a better choice than one of America's most experienced politician, I am pretty fucking sad for you.

The saddest thing is that you seem like a reasonably well informed person. And that's depressing; to see resentful and completely ignorant people voting for him is bad enough; but that someone able to have more or less a rational discussion is backing up this clown is just beyond me.

Anyway. Germans voted for Hitler, Italians Mussolini, French people are voting for Le Pen and English for Farage. If people decide to go full stupid, there is little to do. I guess that's the price to pay for democracy.

Seriously, voting is a responsibility. Get back to planet earth.

Why I (and many others) support Trump over Hillary really isn't that hard to understand. Those who purport to not understand it are either idiots or liars. Your post is fairly emblematic of the latter possibility. Trump's platform, such as it is, far more closely aligns with my personal views than Hillary's. For that reason alone, I'd rather roll the dice with Trump than vote for Hillary. Second, and to the extent that Trump has personality/character problems, Hillary has a whole freight train's worth of her own, which you are more than happy to overlook. She's a liar. She's crooked. Most importantly, she has a demonstrable record of failure from Hillarycare through her time as Secretary of State (which was particularly bad). It's not like people who support Trump are passing on some prodigy. Hillary is a middling politician at best.

Finally, I want Trump elected as a gigantic "fuck you" to the current political and cultural establishments, which are both rotten. I've railed plenty against the GOP recently, so I'll pass on elaborating there. On the cultural side, I deeply resent the current oppression that the left has imposed on political and societal discourse. We presently can't even have intelligent discussions about things like immigration policy for fear of getting pulled over by the PC police. Trump has already reopened lines of discourse, and his election will cement those gains and accelerate the acceptance of true free speech once again. That, in and of itself, is worth a ride on the Trump train.

Seriously, some of you leftists around here need to spend a good solid five minutes with your heads out of your asses and take the time to actually understand the opposing point of view rather than post drivel such as Biff's above. The level of discourse around here from most of you is fucking sad.


If you want to burn up your vote to say "fuck you" to the establishment, then that's your right, but if you're going to do that, you also have to accept ethical responsibility if that "fuck you" ends up completely destroying the welfare of this country when you knowingly voted for someone just to cause political upheaval.

Fair enough. But we are about to wrap up eight years of Obama, and if his presidency tells us anything, it tells us that the political establishment and institutions are remarkably resilient to whatever the president may choose to do. In short, worrying about Trump wrecking the country is largely hyperbolic.

Your right but Obama got a fair bit done with executive orders when institutions did not cooperate. Unless congress unites against Trump this could be repeated.
But most of Trumps damage would be international where the opinion and influence of America would hit all time lows.

Well, the US is at a pretty good low point right now internationally. Our global influence is about as low as it has been since WW2. And of course foreign countries are going to rail at Trump's "America first" platform. I'd expect nothing less when their interests in the American gravy train are so directly threatened. But we will have to see how things play out. Let's not forget all of the lofty expectations for Obama's foreign policy when he was elected. How utterly laughable does his Nobel Peace Prize look now?
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22664 Posts
May 09 2016 22:00 GMT
#75516
On May 10 2016 06:55 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2016 06:48 Gorsameth wrote:
On May 10 2016 05:24 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 05:03 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On May 10 2016 04:44 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 03:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:41 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:39 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 09 2016 11:03 xDaunt wrote:
On May 09 2016 10:51 Introvert wrote:
[quote]

He didn't have a majority in a single state until New York, if memory serves. He has like 40% of the popular vote. He's deeply polarizing, and chances are, quite toxic. So imo they are smart to stay away. Remember he only got close because of the various front-runner biased state rules.

He hasn't a majority of the vote in the early states because he has been running against a large field. Once the field shrank down to four candidate, he was reliably scoring majorities in the states that he ran. So yes, I think that it is fair to say that a majority of republicans are supporting him now. They may not find him to be their perfect candidate (myself included), but they are going to back him as the best option nonetheless.

You are going to vote for this lunatic?

Wow. Just wow.

Better him than Hillary, who is demonstrably incompetent.

Oh man... I don't even know what to say.

Well, someone (not Churchill) said that the best argument against democracy is a five minutes conversation with the average voter; I guess you are a pretty good illustration. That you can think that someone who didn't bother to utter anything true, that made one burlesque proposal after another, that fuels hatred and bigotry and whose main attributes are to be a vulgar, boastful, and a complete bully is a better choice than one of America's most experienced politician, I am pretty fucking sad for you.

The saddest thing is that you seem like a reasonably well informed person. And that's depressing; to see resentful and completely ignorant people voting for him is bad enough; but that someone able to have more or less a rational discussion is backing up this clown is just beyond me.

Anyway. Germans voted for Hitler, Italians Mussolini, French people are voting for Le Pen and English for Farage. If people decide to go full stupid, there is little to do. I guess that's the price to pay for democracy.

Seriously, voting is a responsibility. Get back to planet earth.

Why I (and many others) support Trump over Hillary really isn't that hard to understand. Those who purport to not understand it are either idiots or liars. Your post is fairly emblematic of the latter possibility. Trump's platform, such as it is, far more closely aligns with my personal views than Hillary's. For that reason alone, I'd rather roll the dice with Trump than vote for Hillary. Second, and to the extent that Trump has personality/character problems, Hillary has a whole freight train's worth of her own, which you are more than happy to overlook. She's a liar. She's crooked. Most importantly, she has a demonstrable record of failure from Hillarycare through her time as Secretary of State (which was particularly bad). It's not like people who support Trump are passing on some prodigy. Hillary is a middling politician at best.

Finally, I want Trump elected as a gigantic "fuck you" to the current political and cultural establishments, which are both rotten. I've railed plenty against the GOP recently, so I'll pass on elaborating there. On the cultural side, I deeply resent the current oppression that the left has imposed on political and societal discourse. We presently can't even have intelligent discussions about things like immigration policy for fear of getting pulled over by the PC police. Trump has already reopened lines of discourse, and his election will cement those gains and accelerate the acceptance of true free speech once again. That, in and of itself, is worth a ride on the Trump train.

Seriously, some of you leftists around here need to spend a good solid five minutes with your heads out of your asses and take the time to actually understand the opposing point of view rather than post drivel such as Biff's above. The level of discourse around here from most of you is fucking sad.


If you want to burn up your vote to say "fuck you" to the establishment, then that's your right, but if you're going to do that, you also have to accept ethical responsibility if that "fuck you" ends up completely destroying the welfare of this country when you knowingly voted for someone just to cause political upheaval.

Fair enough. But we are about to wrap up eight years of Obama, and if his presidency tells us anything, it tells us that the political establishment and institutions are remarkably resilient to whatever the president may choose to do. In short, worrying about Trump wrecking the country is largely hyperbolic.

Your right but Obama got a fair bit done with executive orders when institutions did not cooperate. Unless congress unites against Trump this could be repeated.
But most of Trumps damage would be international where the opinion and influence of America would hit all time lows.

Well, the US is at a pretty good low point right now internationally. Our global influence is about as low as it has been since WW2. And of course foreign countries are going to rail at Trump's "America first" platform. I'd expect nothing less when their interests in the American gravy train are so directly threatened. But we will have to see how things play out. Let's not forget all of the lofty expectations for Obama's foreign policy when he was elected. How utterly laughable does his Nobel Peace Prize look now?

The Nobel prize was complete BS from the start, but then again, most of them are.
I think your Republican bias tho is distorting how much good Obama did to repair America's standing with its allies after the failure that was Bush.
Tho a lot of that has been already pissed away by the circus show that is election season(years) and the laughing stock called congress.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-09 22:06:34
May 09 2016 22:03 GMT
#75517
On May 10 2016 06:41 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2016 06:37 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 06:34 Plansix wrote:
On May 10 2016 06:28 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 05:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 10 2016 04:44 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 03:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:41 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:39 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 09 2016 11:03 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
He hasn't a majority of the vote in the early states because he has been running against a large field. Once the field shrank down to four candidate, he was reliably scoring majorities in the states that he ran. So yes, I think that it is fair to say that a majority of republicans are supporting him now. They may not find him to be their perfect candidate (myself included), but they are going to back him as the best option nonetheless.

You are going to vote for this lunatic?

Wow. Just wow.

Better him than Hillary, who is demonstrably incompetent.

Oh man... I don't even know what to say.

Well, someone (not Churchill) said that the best argument against democracy is a five minutes conversation with the average voter; I guess you are a pretty good illustration. That you can think that someone who didn't bother to utter anything true, that made one burlesque proposal after another, that fuels hatred and bigotry and whose main attributes are to be a vulgar, boastful, and a complete bully is a better choice than one of America's most experienced politician, I am pretty fucking sad for you.

The saddest thing is that you seem like a reasonably well informed person. And that's depressing; to see resentful and completely ignorant people voting for him is bad enough; but that someone able to have more or less a rational discussion is backing up this clown is just beyond me.

Anyway. Germans voted for Hitler, Italians Mussolini, French people are voting for Le Pen and English for Farage. If people decide to go full stupid, there is little to do. I guess that's the price to pay for democracy.

Seriously, voting is a responsibility. Get back to planet earth.

Why I (and many others) support Trump over Hillary really isn't that hard to understand. Those who purport to not understand it are either idiots or liars. Your post is fairly emblematic of the latter possibility. Trump's platform, such as it is, far more closely aligns with my personal views than Hillary's. For that reason alone, I'd rather roll the dice with Trump than vote for Hillary. Second, and to the extent that Trump has personality/character problems, Hillary has a whole freight train's worth of her own, which you are more than happy to overlook. She's a liar. She's crooked. Most importantly, she has a demonstrable record of failure from Hillarycare through her time as Secretary of State (which was particularly bad). It's not like people who support Trump are passing on some prodigy. Hillary is a middling politician at best.

Finally, I want Trump elected as a gigantic "fuck you" to the current political and cultural establishments, which are both rotten. I've railed plenty against the GOP recently, so I'll pass on elaborating there. On the cultural side, I deeply resent the current oppression that the left has imposed on political and societal discourse. We presently can't even have intelligent discussions about things like immigration policy for fear of getting pulled over by the PC police. Trump has already reopened lines of discourse, and his election will cement those gains and accelerate the acceptance of true free speech once again. That, in and of itself, is worth a ride on the Trump train.

Seriously, some of you leftists around here need to spend a good solid five minutes with your heads out of your asses and take the time to actually understand the opposing point of view rather than post drivel such as Biff's above. The level of discourse around here from most of you is fucking sad.

I don't think we have a whole lot to discuss, you and me, so I will politely leave that discussion.

I didn't have you pegged as one of those left wingers who is afflicted with retrograde illiberalism. Looks like I was wrong.

Someone politely tells him that they don’t see a lot to be gained by the discussion, XDaunt calls them stupid. As I expected.

You may want to try reading what I wrote again. I did not call him stupid. My complaint is very different.

I am sure I could perform a full breakdown of the specific wording and use of the world “afflicted” as opposed to “subscriber” or “believer” to prove that you meant to imply he has limited mental capacity due his views.

But I don’t have time for that and sometimes it’s nice to cut through the passive aggressive nerd bullshit and just call a spade and spade.


Then let's cut through it: Do you really think it reasonable to denigrate someone and then "politely" excuse yourself from the discussion when your unsubstantiated claims meets reality? Because that was exactly what Biff did. He even managed to equate voting for Trump/Le Pen/Fahrad with Hitler and Mussolini and yet you still consider him polite?

People voting for Trump is not an argument against democracy - it is an argument against the current politicians and their deafness towards a large segment of the population. If you want people to vote for someone else, listen to their concerns instead of trying to silence them (for the vast majority their concerns aren't founded in neither bigotry nor racism), and then give them a better alternative.

It's almost as if the average politician forgot about the "representative" part in a representative democracy.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22664 Posts
May 09 2016 22:14 GMT
#75518
On May 10 2016 07:03 Ghostcom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2016 06:41 Plansix wrote:
On May 10 2016 06:37 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 06:34 Plansix wrote:
On May 10 2016 06:28 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 05:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 10 2016 04:44 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 03:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:41 xDaunt wrote:
On May 10 2016 02:39 Biff The Understudy wrote:
[quote]
You are going to vote for this lunatic?

Wow. Just wow.

Better him than Hillary, who is demonstrably incompetent.

Oh man... I don't even know what to say.

Well, someone (not Churchill) said that the best argument against democracy is a five minutes conversation with the average voter; I guess you are a pretty good illustration. That you can think that someone who didn't bother to utter anything true, that made one burlesque proposal after another, that fuels hatred and bigotry and whose main attributes are to be a vulgar, boastful, and a complete bully is a better choice than one of America's most experienced politician, I am pretty fucking sad for you.

The saddest thing is that you seem like a reasonably well informed person. And that's depressing; to see resentful and completely ignorant people voting for him is bad enough; but that someone able to have more or less a rational discussion is backing up this clown is just beyond me.

Anyway. Germans voted for Hitler, Italians Mussolini, French people are voting for Le Pen and English for Farage. If people decide to go full stupid, there is little to do. I guess that's the price to pay for democracy.

Seriously, voting is a responsibility. Get back to planet earth.

Why I (and many others) support Trump over Hillary really isn't that hard to understand. Those who purport to not understand it are either idiots or liars. Your post is fairly emblematic of the latter possibility. Trump's platform, such as it is, far more closely aligns with my personal views than Hillary's. For that reason alone, I'd rather roll the dice with Trump than vote for Hillary. Second, and to the extent that Trump has personality/character problems, Hillary has a whole freight train's worth of her own, which you are more than happy to overlook. She's a liar. She's crooked. Most importantly, she has a demonstrable record of failure from Hillarycare through her time as Secretary of State (which was particularly bad). It's not like people who support Trump are passing on some prodigy. Hillary is a middling politician at best.

Finally, I want Trump elected as a gigantic "fuck you" to the current political and cultural establishments, which are both rotten. I've railed plenty against the GOP recently, so I'll pass on elaborating there. On the cultural side, I deeply resent the current oppression that the left has imposed on political and societal discourse. We presently can't even have intelligent discussions about things like immigration policy for fear of getting pulled over by the PC police. Trump has already reopened lines of discourse, and his election will cement those gains and accelerate the acceptance of true free speech once again. That, in and of itself, is worth a ride on the Trump train.

Seriously, some of you leftists around here need to spend a good solid five minutes with your heads out of your asses and take the time to actually understand the opposing point of view rather than post drivel such as Biff's above. The level of discourse around here from most of you is fucking sad.

I don't think we have a whole lot to discuss, you and me, so I will politely leave that discussion.

I didn't have you pegged as one of those left wingers who is afflicted with retrograde illiberalism. Looks like I was wrong.

Someone politely tells him that they don’t see a lot to be gained by the discussion, XDaunt calls them stupid. As I expected.

You may want to try reading what I wrote again. I did not call him stupid. My complaint is very different.

I am sure I could perform a full breakdown of the specific wording and use of the world “afflicted” as opposed to “subscriber” or “believer” to prove that you meant to imply he has limited mental capacity due his views.

But I don’t have time for that and sometimes it’s nice to cut through the passive aggressive nerd bullshit and just call a spade and spade.


Then let's cut through it: Do you really think it possible to denigrate someone and then "politely" excuse yourself from the discussion when your unsubstantiated claims meets reality? Because that was exactly what Biff did. He even managed to equate voting for Trump/Le Pen/Fahrad with Hitler and Mussolini and yet you still consider him polite?

People voting for Trump is not an argument against democracy - it is an argument against the current politicians and their deafness towards a large segment of the population. If you want people to vote for someone else, listen to their concerns instead of trying to silence them (for the vast majority their concerns aren't founded in neither bigotry nor racism), and then give them a better alternative.

It's almost as if the average politician forgot about the "representative" part in a representative democracy.

A large problem with populists like Trump/Le Pen/Farage is that their voters tend to not really focus on actual content. So even if politicians were to listen to their concerns they are unlikely to then be listened to by the voters themselves unless they partake in the populist shouting match which has no regard for actual solutions.

An increasingly large voter group doesn't care about a candidates actual platform (because numbers are boring).
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 09 2016 22:16 GMT
#75519
As someone who has never been part of a political party, I see no value in throwing my vote to someone I think is terrible as a show of protest. I find it to be irresponsible and slightly shitty. And its cold comfort for the people who stand to be harmed by Trump and his potential administration. I don't think Trump is Hitler at all. I think he more like McCarthy, who did a lot of damage to people before the rest of congress got their shit together to deal with him.

But of course, XDaunt is unlikely to be substantively harmed by Trump's administration, which I believe is what Biff is calling out. And that is a point of discussion that a most people voting for Trump in protest like to avoid.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 09 2016 22:21 GMT
#75520
A Democratic candidate for the West Virginia state Senate was brutally attacked at a political cookout just two days before the state’s primary in an attack his family believes was politically motivated, WSAZ reported.

Richard Ojeda suffered eight facial fractures, severe swelling, and a concussion after suspect Jonathan Porter allegedly showed up to a Sunday cookout uninvited, according to the report.

Porter allegedly asked Ojeda, a military veteran, for help putting a bumper sticker on his car and started beating him with brass knuckles when he bent down to help, the local station reported. Witnesses told police the suspect also tried to run Ojeda over with his car while trying to flee the scene.

Porter turned himself into police about six hours later and was charged with felony destruction of property, malicious assault and attempt to commit a felony, according to WSAZ.

After the attack, Ojeda posted a photo of his battered face from the hospital on Facebook, and said he believes the attack was planned.

“Make no mistake....I am now even more dedicated to the cause. This doesn't scare me and I don't quit! This was premeditated and there was a reason the guy did this,” he wrote.

Ojeda’s opponent in the race, incumbent state Sen. Art Kirkendoll, strongly condemned the attack in a statement.


Source
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