US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3777

On May 10 2016 07:14 Gorsameth wrote:

A large problem with populists like Trump/Le Pen/Farage is that their voters tend to not really focus on actual content. So even if politicians were to listen to their concerns they are unlikely to then be listened to by the voters themselves unless they partake in the populist shouting match which has no regard for actual solutions.

An increasingly large voter group doesn't care about a candidates actual platform (because numbers are boring).

On May 10 2016 07:03 Ghostcom wrote:


Then let's cut through it: Do you really think it reasonable to denigrate someone and then "politely" excuse yourself from the discussion when your unsubstantiated claims meets reality? Because that was exactly what Biff did. He even managed to equate voting for Trump/Le Pen/Fahrad with Hitler and Mussolini and yet you still consider him polite?

People voting for Trump is not an argument against democracy - it is an argument against the current politicians and their deafness towards a large segment of the population. If you want people to vote for someone else, listen to their concerns instead of trying to silence them (for the vast majority their concerns aren't founded in neither bigotry nor racism), and then give them a better alternative.

It's almost as if the average politician forgot about the "representative" part in a representative democracy.

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending the best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems and they’re bringing those problems. They’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime. They’re rapists and some, I assume, are good people, but I speak to border guards and they’re telling us what we’re getting.”

— Trump, referring to Mexicans as rapists during a speech announcing his presidential candidacy in June 2015

On May 10 2016 07:14 Gorsameth wrote:

A large problem with populists like Trump/Le Pen/Farage is that their voters tend to not really focus on actual content. So even if politicians were to listen to their concerns they are unlikely to then be listened to by the voters themselves unless they partake in the populist shouting match which has no regard for actual solutions.

An increasingly large voter group doesn't care about a candidates actual platform (because numbers are boring).

The Mexican government drew fire from American advocates of tighter borders on Wednesday for publishing a pamphlet that instructs migrants how to safely enter the United States illegally and live there without being detected.

Officials here say the small booklet, illustrated in comic-book style, is not intended to encourage illegal immigration, but to reduce the loss of life. Last year, more than 300 migrants died while crossing rivers and deserts to reach the United States.

The guidebook also advises would-be migrants to avoid hiring professional immigrant-smugglers and to refuse to carry packages for others. It also instructs people never to lie to border officials, carry false documents or resist arrest.

But groups favoring stricter immigration controls said the pamphlet amounted to a how-to manual for illegal immigrants. The booklet gives advice on what clothes to wear when fording a river and how to cross a desert without getting dehydrated.

It also counsels migrants to keep a low profile once in the United States, telling them, for instance, to stay away from loud parties or discos that might be raided by the police and to stay out of domestic disputes, which might lead to an arrest. Finally, it lists what rights migrants have if caught, among them safe transport home, medical care, food and water.

On May 10 2016 07:52 LegalLord wrote:
A lot of what brings people to these candidates/parties that people here speak poorly of (Trump, FN, UKIP, etc) is the fact that the mainstream parties quite explicitly ignore the concerns of the groups that have a problem with something they would rather not address - immigration (e.g. Syrian refugee crisis), loss of jobs (e.g. continuing trade deals). It's been all too common recently to label people who have those concerns as evil racist bigots and sometimes even fascists (what a joke) and to ignore their rather genuine concerns. Merkel specifically has essentially decided to suicide her own party on the issue of immigration, saying "fuck you" to those who don't agree to the extent that it is possible.

Well, guess what? When a fringe group is the only one that addresses your concerns, people are willing to look past the flaws that made them a fringe group in the first place. At some point it doesn't really matter if they're racist bigots, or if they're perceived as such (this might have a lot to do with what xDaunt is talking about w.r.t. silencing discourse) if they're willing to actually address the issues while no one else is. It is true that their policies are often somewhat suck, but again, that doesn't always matter if the other side's policy is just straight up contrary to your own interest.

On May 10 2016 07:51 Naracs_Duc wrote:


Forgot to add Bernie to that list of populists.

On May 10 2016 07:26 Acrofales wrote:


1. Socioeconomic problems (white privilege eroding, economy not doing well, general instability of where people see themselves and their country down the road)
2. Unrest leads to scapegoating (Mexicans, Muslims)
3. Populist suggests policies targeting scapegoats

Trump's points to address point 1 directly are laughable, but we can at least have a sensible discussion about them. His main platform, however, is point number 3. I reject that position outright, and we SHOULD ignore people wanting to talk about policies regarding singling out muslims, or building walls for mexicans, because we should not take that type of stupid scapegoating seriously.

We should have a sensible discussion about immigration policy reform. We should not have it on the assumption that mexicans are rapists and murderers. We should have a discussion about how to deal with radical Islam abroad, and foreign policy to deal with it. We should not have it on the basis of banning all muslims from entering the US.

On May 10 2016 08:17 LegalLord wrote:

That sort of dismissive attitude is exactly what drives people to populist candidates.

On May 10 2016 08:19 SK.Testie wrote:


"Illegals don't rape at a rate higher than the normal populace!" the left will cry. Actually, they do. By a lot.
Again, I need to post this again it seems. From an extremely leftist news source even. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/12/central-america-migrants-rape_n_5806972.html
So here is literal proof of saying, "Hey.. 4 out of 5 women are getting raped" and the left responds with righteous indignation, "omg how could you. They don't rape more than anyone else".
"Uhh.. but.. 4 out of 5.."
"You fucking racist bigot."
"No really.. this is a problem and I don't want this on our hands. This problem doesn't belong to us."
"RACISTTTTT."
Are we seriously to pretend that a country that doesn't solve 99% of its murders and is cartel country is really our loving, totally equal companion? Egalitarian fantasy much?

Also, it is the peoples country. And the polls suggest (even among democrats) that banning all Muslim entry temporarily is favorable. If the people of the country agree, how is that not acceptable? Poland is 100% against Muslim immigration and against Islam in general. That's their country, they are very free to do that. Germany and Sweden are not. Does anyone want to live in Malmo Sweden where grenades have gone off because they were top of the charts on tolerance? What did their tolerance get them?
Mexican government providing the manual. So yes, it's true for Trump to say, "When Mexico sends its people"
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/world/americas/a-mexican-manual-for-illegal-migrants-upsets-some-in-us.html

So answer this after reading those. When Trump says, "When Mexico sends their people, they're not sending their best etc." Is he wrong? Is he wrong on that statement? Does Islam integrate well with western nations?

How is building a wall a terrible idea when Mexico is proven to be actively sending their poorest people and trying to get rid of them. Mexico itself treats illegal immigrants very harshly. Why should the US treat them with such tender love and care when these same people did not respect the law? Countries aren't shelters for the needy and you cannot take in all of the worlds poor and somehow give them a better life in America.

These are two very popular positions in the US. Since when does anyone else in the world have a right to move into your country against your peoples wishes? If the USA said, "alright, no more Canadians for a while until they say the word about properly" even as silly as that is, they could make that distinction because it is their country. They are 100% ok to make the silliest fucking laws they want if that's their peoples wish.

I've found Europeans especially pretentious and overly liberal about Americas problems. Comparing tiny Scandinavian countries to America is ludicrous. Even comparing the UK and Germany to America is ludicrous. I myself used to be on that European side. The left Jon Stewart side. I still am in many ways, but right now I think America desperately needs Trump. They have real issues that have been ignored. But not just ignored, completely ridiculed and then they themselves are ostracized.

And don't dodge the question on Mexican illegals up there. Someone from the left had better answer to it. 4 out of 5 women raped, and the mexican government has been proven to be helping them along to break the law to enter America. The question is: Is Trump wrong to be saying that they aren't sending their bests and that a lot of rape, crime, and drugs comes with them? Considering that they've all broken the law to enter the country, the crime rate is literally 100%.

On May 10 2016 08:22 Nyxisto wrote:


Doesn't change anything about the fact that it's true. The populists don't have any solutions, no reason to advocate shitty policies just for the sake of doing so. And compared to the GOP the Democrats are in excellent shape lol

Quite ironic to make this comment right now as the Austrian PM has committed suicide by exactly doing what you're demanding which is giving in to the right-wing blackmail.

On May 10 2016 08:29 RenSC2 wrote:
Do you not understand the difference between a rape victim and a rapist? According to the article, 80% of the women have been raped while trying to get to the United States. That doesn't mean that 80% of them are rapists or anywhere close to it.

On May 10 2016 08:10 oneofthem wrote:
just a reminder that daunt is critical of Obama on loss of u.s. influence while supporting trump who would ditch global concerns in favor of protectionism at home while calling 'enforce your promises' Hillary incompetent. this is just another example of being wrong on the facts and substituting feels and partisanship for understanding

On May 10 2016 08:17 LegalLord wrote:

That sort of dismissive attitude is exactly what drives people to populist candidates.

On May 10 2016 09:06 Adreme wrote:
I tend to not trust sources that come from twitter especially when they link me a video without the true sources of it so I can not actually tell context especially in a foreign language where words mean multiple things.