EPTThe general election between two bullshitters, each from the opposite spectrum will be immensely entertaining, can't wait for the debates!
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3695
| Forum Index > Closed |
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
|
LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
The general election between two bullshitters, each from the opposite spectrum will be immensely entertaining, can't wait for the debates! | ||
|
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On April 28 2016 05:23 DickMcFanny wrote: Poll: Which Presidential Candidate is easiest to hate? Ted Cruz (23) 23 total votes Your vote: Which Presidential Candidate is easiest to hate? (Vote): Ted Cruz I wish I could find the most punchable face poll I did months ago that Cruz won unanimously | ||
|
Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On April 28 2016 08:18 ticklishmusic wrote: I wish I could find the most punchable face poll I did months ago that Cruz won unanimously Poll: Which Republican candidate has the most punchable face? Cruz (43) The Donald (1) iCarly (1) Chris Christie (1) Ron Paul Jr (1) Jeb! (0) Kasich (0) Rubio (0) Dr. Benjamin Carson (0) Scott Walker (0) Hiccup Huckabee (0) 47 total votes Your vote: Which Republican candidate has the most punchable face? (Vote): Jeb! source and somebody immediately ruins it by voting donald XD | ||
|
Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
| ||
|
Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
| ||
|
On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On April 28 2016 05:05 zeo wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 28 2016 04:30 On_Slaught wrote: I'm not sure who should be more embarrassed about that speech, the speechwriters or Trump himself. Even if you look beyond the jarring shifts between college-level rhetoric and fourth grade level rhetoric, the blatant hypocrisy throughout, combined with a lack of details is pathetic at best and dangerous at worst. There's literally so much wrong with it that it will take a paper to explain it all. Suffice to say that his core two points, That we need to have better relationships with our allies and also the fact that they have to treat us better "or else", is contradictory. On top of that, How do people continue to take Serious b******* arguments like "I will do it to the best trust me." You clearly have not watched the speech and are only parroting buzzwords, he gave a clear set of goals and explained how to get to the finish line. Pay attention, it regards your grievances: "After I’m elected president, I will also call for a summit with our NATO allies and a separate summit with our Asian allies. In these summits, we will not only discuss a rebalancing of financial commitments, but take a fresh look at how we can adopt new strategies for tackling our common challenges. For instance, we will discuss how we can upgrade NATO’s outdated mission and structure, grown out of the Cold War to confront our shared challenges, including migration and Islamic terrorism." Nowhere in his speech does he make threats to American satellite states, rather calls for more active participation in solving common problems. He doesn't have anyone write his speeches and he doesn't use a teleprompter like Obama. I think if he becomes president history will remember this speech by its defining sentence: ”We will no longer surrender out country or its people to the false song of globalism” This is a monumental shift in American foreign policy and you should be paying attention instead of listening to Reddit tier quasi-political commentators Let’s lay out Trump’s (or more likely the multiple scriptwriter/advisors) points made throughout the speech. Tried to avoid many of the baseless and vague statements he loves to throw out there. + Show Spoiler + 1. Main foreign policy direction a. America did great stuff back in the day (WW2/Cold War), but not anymore. b. Dangerous idea that we can make all countries a western democracy. c. Wars in the Middle East were a disaster. Money/Live/Vacuum for ISIS. d. TRUMPS SOLUTION: American Security and Interests first priority of all foreign policy. 2. Resources are overextended a. Obama did bad things to economy, which has hurt our defense. I’ll lower debt. b. TRUMPS SOLUTION: I’ll fix it because I understand best. Believe me. (He literally says this…) 3. Allies not paying their fair share a. NATO countries not paying enough. We spend a disproportionate amount. b. TRUMPS SOLUTION: Allies must contribute more money/people, otherwise we will let our allies defend themselves. 4. Our friends are beginning to think they can’t depend on us a. Iran can’t be allowed to have a Nuke (doesn’t say how he’d stop this of course) b. Must be willing to leave the negotiation table. c. Friends must know you will stick by agreements you have with them. “You made that agreement, you have to stand by it.” d. “We pick fights with our oldest friends, and now they are starting to look elsewhere for help. Remember that. Not good.” e. TRUMPS SOLUTION: Doesn’t give one. Except that he will stop Iran, somehow. Magic maybe? 5. Our rivals no longer respect us a. No leaders meet Obama when he lands places, can’t get the Olympics, etc. b. Allow NK to do whatever, and China to run over us economically/cyber attacks. c. TRUMPS SOLUTION: Use some form of leverage somehow to perhaps maybe get China to be nicer and to stop NK for us? 6. America no longer has a clear understanding of our foreign policy goals a. No consistent/coherent foreign policy – made ME more dangerous than ever. b. Our actions helped unleash ISIS. c. ISIS making money selling oil and we don’t do anything about it (blatant lie but w/e). d. “American will be a great and reliable ally again.” e. Getting out of the nation building business. Politics end at our borders! f. TRUMPS SOLUTION: Name the enemy. Followed by “we’ll be great again” and “we’ll win.” From this point on, everything he gives is basically a “Trump Solution.” 7. Long term plan to halt the spread and reach of radical Islam a. Work very closely with allies in Muslim world (something we are already doing) b. We will help, but “they must be good to us.” “They have to appreciate what we’ve done for them.” (sounds like a Mafioso) c. Stop importing extremism. (sure, but there is no way of doing this that is both pragmatic and legal) d. ISIS is done… I won’t say how though. They’ll be gone quickly. (lol) e. Must be unpredictable as a nation. (euphemism for I don’t know what I’m doing so I’ll make it up as I go) 8. Rebuild our military and our economy a. Military is shrinking in size. (yeah, technology does that) b. Global warning isn’t really a threat. (don’t mind the thousands of experts, on weather, military, and foreign policy who disagree) c. We will save money by spending on the military. (doesn’t pass the laugh test) d. Will have the greatest military in the world! (we already do, by a significant margin) e. Take the best care of our veterans (won’t say how you pay for this ofc) 9. In the ME our goals must be to defeat terrorist and promote stability, not radical change 10. Create a friendship with Russia and China. a. China respects strength, so force them to do shit! (I guess he thinks if you treat the horribly they will love you, like all of the woman Trump interacts with) 11. A summit with NATO and Asian allies to rebalance financial commitments and new strategies for tackling new challenges. (not like we don’t have meetings all the time with our allies) a. NATO is outdated. (tell that to the Ukranians and their neighbors) 12. Ready to use troops if needed, or economic leverage like sanctions. (things we already do ofc) a. We will use these on friends if “they don’t treat us fairly.” 13. Work with allies to reinvigorate Western values/institutions. Promote the west = inspires positive reforms around the world. (Sure, I like this. How do you do it?) 14. “Too many destructive weapons out there… Single biggest problem in the world.” 15. Surrender to the “false song of globalism.” (dat isolationism) 16. NAFTA bad. I will fix this by putting consequence (tariffs) on corporations who hurt us. (dat trade war and increased prices for US buyers!) 17. I’ll get the best experts there are! 18. “we will always help save lives, and indeed humanity itself” (unless you are unfair to us I guess) Honestly towards the end I was starting to get a migraine and started to zone out. The above ^^^^^ is a numbered outline of his speech and the main points he made. The problems are obvious and numerous. - 4d contradicts with 12a, 3b, and 4c - 6e, 9, and 1c are all incompatible - 14 and 8d contradict - 18 contradicts 7b and 3b - 6d contradicts with 3b and 7b - 7e and 4c don’t make sense - In fact, 7e contradicts pretty much every “specific” he has ever given - 16 will undermine 1d - 2a and 2b don’t jive with 8c - 10, 10a, and 5c are in conflict - 9 and 13 don’t line up - 17 and 8b… apparently not. - 8d doesn’t jive with his overall goal to make allies, not enemies - 5b and 5c contradict (they control us economically, but we have economic leverage!) - He said we should not help any country that is not our friend, but he wants to help Russia. (forgot where he said this, somewhere in 10 and like 5) I’m sure there I more in there, but I’m tired. Ofc this doesn’t even mention the blatant lies (some I pointed out), like that Iran is suddenly a “great great power,” or that we have screwed Israel in the last 8 years. His statements about the military needing to grow ignore technological advances and the fact we were coming off the Cold War in 1991. The best point I can give him is the one Zeo mentioned, about getting together and talking with our allies. The problem is his tone/rhetoric. Instead of such a meeting coming off as roommates meeting to discuss renegotiating how much each pays, it comes off has a mob boss meeting with local store owners to ensure they pay him enough, otherwise he may not be there when the Italians come and wreck your store! His requirement that you "appreciate us (him)" comes off as narcissistic and dangerous. "Their president said bad things about me! He doesn't appreciate me! Therefore he doesn't love me! I'm not going to help out now." I’ll stick with pathetic as my interpretation of this speech. Beyond all of the logical problems, he mispronounces Tanzania and San Bernardino. I’ll also repeat that the constant switches between college and 4th grade rhetoric was jarring. Last, he heavily relied upon scriptwriters and a teleprompter, things he and his supporters have attacked others for using. | ||
|
Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On April 28 2016 08:29 Barrin wrote: Yeah. A lot of Bernie supporters know how similar Hillary's platform is to his and just don't trust her. The things that Bernie supporters "know" is always good for a smirk. | ||
|
Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
| ||
|
Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
| ||
|
Introvert
United States4999 Posts
On April 28 2016 08:24 Mohdoo wrote: I think the Donald vote was Introvert. I don't vote in these polls. Also, I don't look at people in terms of punch-able faces. But if I had to pick...  | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
| ||
|
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On April 28 2016 08:20 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Poll: Which Republican candidate has the most punchable face? Cruz (43) The Donald (1) iCarly (1) Chris Christie (1) Ron Paul Jr (1) Jeb! (0) Kasich (0) Rubio (0) Dr. Benjamin Carson (0) Scott Walker (0) Hiccup Huckabee (0) 47 total votes Your vote: Which Republican candidate has the most punchable face? (Vote): Jeb! source and somebody immediately ruins it by voting donald XD Ur a champ | ||
|
kwizach
3658 Posts
On April 28 2016 08:32 On_Slaught wrote: + Show Spoiler [long post] + Let’s lay out Trump’s (or more likely the multiple scriptwriter/advisors) points made throughout the speech. Tried to avoid many of the baseless and vague statements he loves to throw out there. + Show Spoiler + 1. Main foreign policy direction a. America did great stuff back in the day (WW2/Cold War), but not anymore. b. Dangerous idea that we can make all countries a western democracy. c. Wars in the Middle East were a disaster. Money/Live/Vacuum for ISIS. d. TRUMPS SOLUTION: American Security and Interests first priority of all foreign policy. 2. Resources are overextended a. Obama did bad things to economy, which has hurt our defense. I’ll lower debt. b. TRUMPS SOLUTION: I’ll fix it because I understand best. Believe me. (He literally says this…) 3. Allies not paying their fair share a. NATO countries not paying enough. We spend a disproportionate amount. b. TRUMPS SOLUTION: Allies must contribute more money/people, otherwise we will let our allies defend themselves. 4. Our friends are beginning to think they can’t depend on us a. Iran can’t be allowed to have a Nuke (doesn’t say how he’d stop this of course) b. Must be willing to leave the negotiation table. c. Friends must know you will stick by agreements you have with them. “You made that agreement, you have to stand by it.” d. “We pick fights with our oldest friends, and now they are starting to look elsewhere for help. Remember that. Not good.” e. TRUMPS SOLUTION: Doesn’t give one. Except that he will stop Iran, somehow. Magic maybe? 5. Our rivals no longer respect us a. No leaders meet Obama when he lands places, can’t get the Olympics, etc. b. Allow NK to do whatever, and China to run over us economically/cyber attacks. c. TRUMPS SOLUTION: Use some form of leverage somehow to perhaps maybe get China to be nicer and to stop NK for us? 6. America no longer has a clear understanding of our foreign policy goals a. No consistent/coherent foreign policy – made ME more dangerous than ever. b. Our actions helped unleash ISIS. c. ISIS making money selling oil and we don’t do anything about it (blatant lie but w/e). d. “American will be a great and reliable ally again.” e. Getting out of the nation building business. Politics end at our borders! f. TRUMPS SOLUTION: Name the enemy. Followed by “we’ll be great again” and “we’ll win.” From this point on, everything he gives is basically a “Trump Solution.” 7. Long term plan to halt the spread and reach of radical Islam a. Work very closely with allies in Muslim world (something we are already doing) b. We will help, but “they must be good to us.” “They have to appreciate what we’ve done for them.” (sounds like a Mafioso) c. Stop importing extremism. (sure, but there is no way of doing this that is both pragmatic and legal) d. ISIS is done… I won’t say how though. They’ll be gone quickly. (lol) e. Must be unpredictable as a nation. (euphemism for I don’t know what I’m doing so I’ll make it up as I go) 8. Rebuild our military and our economy a. Military is shrinking in size. (yeah, technology does that) b. Global warning isn’t really a threat. (don’t mind the thousands of experts, on weather, military, and foreign policy who disagree) c. We will save money by spending on the military. (doesn’t pass the laugh test) d. Will have the greatest military in the world! (we already do, by a significant margin) e. Take the best care of our veterans (won’t say how you pay for this ofc) 9. In the ME our goals must be to defeat terrorist and promote stability, not radical change 10. Create a friendship with Russia and China. a. China respects strength, so force them to do shit! (I guess he thinks if you treat the horribly they will love you, like all of the woman Trump interacts with) 11. A summit with NATO and Asian allies to rebalance financial commitments and new strategies for tackling new challenges. (not like we don’t have meetings all the time with our allies) a. NATO is outdated. (tell that to the Ukranians and their neighbors) 12. Ready to use troops if needed, or economic leverage like sanctions. (things we already do ofc) a. We will use these on friends if “they don’t treat us fairly.” 13. Work with allies to reinvigorate Western values/institutions. Promote the west = inspires positive reforms around the world. (Sure, I like this. How do you do it?) 14. “Too many destructive weapons out there… Single biggest problem in the world.” 15. Surrender to the “false song of globalism.” (dat isolationism) 16. NAFTA bad. I will fix this by putting consequence (tariffs) on corporations who hurt us. (dat trade war and increased prices for US buyers!) 17. I’ll get the best experts there are! 18. “we will always help save lives, and indeed humanity itself” (unless you are unfair to us I guess) Honestly towards the end I was starting to get a migraine and started to zone out. The above ^^^^^ is a numbered outline of his speech and the main points he made. The problems are obvious and numerous. - 4d contradicts with 12a, 3b, and 4c - 6e, 9, and 1c are all incompatible - 14 and 8d contradict - 18 contradicts 7b and 3b - 6d contradicts with 3b and 7b - 7e and 4c don’t make sense - In fact, 7e contradicts pretty much every “specific” he has ever given - 16 will undermine 1d - 2a and 2b don’t jive with 8c - 10, 10a, and 5c are in conflict - 9 and 13 don’t line up - 17 and 8b… apparently not. - 8d doesn’t jive with his overall goal to make allies, not enemies - 5b and 5c contradict (they control us economically, but we have economic leverage!) - He said we should not help any country that is not our friend, but he wants to help Russia. (forgot where he said this, somewhere in 10 and like 5) I’m sure there I more in there, but I’m tired. Ofc this doesn’t even mention the blatant lies (some I pointed out), like that Iran is suddenly a “great great power,” or that we have screwed Israel in the last 8 years. His statements about the military needing to grow ignore technological advances and the fact we were coming off the Cold War in 1991. The best point I can give him is the one Zeo mentioned, about getting together and talking with our allies. The problem is his tone/rhetoric. Instead of such a meeting coming off as roommates meeting to discuss renegotiating how much each pays, it comes off has a mob boss meeting with local store owners to ensure they pay him enough, otherwise he may not be there when the Italians come and wreck your store! His requirement that you "appreciate us (him)" comes off as narcissistic and dangerous. "Their president said bad things about me! He doesn't appreciate me! Therefore he doesn't love me! I'm not going to help out now." I’ll stick with pathetic as my interpretation of this speech. Beyond all of the logical problems, he mispronounces Tanzania and San Bernardino. I’ll also repeat that the constant switches between college and 4th grade rhetoric was jarring. Last, he heavily relied upon scriptwriters and a teleprompter, things he and his supporters have attacked others for using. Nice work there | ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
actually it's really over and i don't want to say too much | ||
|
hunts
United States2113 Posts
Unrelateldy, a Canadian couple was found guilty for letting their child die of bacterial meningitis by attempting to treat him with homeopathy for 2.5 weeks and only calling an ambulance once the kid stopped breathing. The naturopath doctor they went to with the kid is now being investigated also, and homeopathic nutjobs that are sympathetic with them, are blaming "ill equipped ambulance" on the death, and claiming the parents did nothing wrong by letting their 2? year old child be sick for 2.5 weeks without taking him to a real doctor. Unfortunately the max sentence they can face is only 5 years, and they probably won't get that. | ||
|
Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
Trump's speech is absolutely trash with no substance meriting review, and the only people who find it insightful are not informed about US foreign policy. Everything I hear from him regarding NATO is migraine inducing. | ||
|
zlefin
United States7689 Posts
Past that, it does feel like the bench is a bit thin on people who already have name recognition, though that's not uncommon with vp's. | ||
|
oBlade
United States6268 Posts
On April 28 2016 08:32 On_Slaught wrote: I’ll stick with pathetic as my interpretation of this speech. Beyond all of the logical problems, he mispronounces Tanzania and San Bernardino. I’ll also repeat that the constant switches between college and 4th grade rhetoric was jarring. Last, he heavily relied upon scriptwriters and a teleprompter, things he and his supporters have attacked others for using. I don't think you've got the context right. A goal probably on equal footing with broadly outlining his administration's philosophy is the goal of showing people, including the establishment, that he can perform the basic functions of an elected official (like delivering a prepared speech on a political subject) as he nears the end of the nominating process. Because his circumstances are different - he's not a career politician - things like this are important for him for additional reasons that wouldn't apply to Cruz or Kasich. When people praise him speaking off the cuff, it's in the context of a rally, debate, Q&A, something like that. Don't you remember what happened to Rubio? It's overly rehearsed performances that people make fun of. There's no hypocrisy in him reading a speech that was written beforehand. Just what do you think presidents do? | ||
|
Leporello
United States2845 Posts
Who the #$%^ looks at Russia's actions the past 10-12 years and thinks NATO "might not be necessary"? I have no doubt Trump voters, in their comic-book view of the world, think it'll be just great for America to selfishly refuse help and let Putin exercise his Napoleon-complex. I don't think they understand that the world abides us. If we're not helping these people, then we really are just an empire. And the world doesn't like empires. We need NATO -- not for financial reasons, but for goodwill. And that is important. The party of "tear down this wall" is now the party of "we don't care about you". On April 28 2016 08:53 Lord Tolkien wrote: Everything I hear from him regarding NATO is migraine inducing. It makes me ashamed, disgusted, and afraid. I honestly have to assume he gets foreign policy from his mail-order wives. | ||
|
On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On April 28 2016 09:10 oBlade wrote: I don't think you've got the context right. A goal probably on equal footing with broadly outlining his administration's philosophy is the goal of showing people, including the establishment, that he can perform the basic functions of an elected official (like delivering a prepared speech on a political subject) as he nears the end of the nominating process. Because his circumstances are different - he's not a career politician - things like this are important for him for additional reasons that wouldn't apply to Cruz or Kasich. When people praise him speaking off the cuff, it's in the context of a rally, debate, Q&A, something like that. Don't you remember what happened to Rubio? It's overly rehearsed performances that people make fun of. There's no hypocrisy in him reading a speech that was written beforehand. Just what do you think presidents do? I completely understand why he used the teleprompter. The point I was making in that paragraph is that it still makes him and his supporters hypocrites because of his past attacks on people for using a teleprompter and being scripted. Look no further than Zeos post quoted. Furthermore, the fact that a scripted speech could still be so incoherent isn't exactly confidence-inspiring. | ||
| ||
