EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 3448
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On March 24 2016 22:12 oneofthem wrote: counterpunch is horrible for fp lol. I will give you that that article seems fairly partisan and is not particularly charitable (in the sense of giving fair consideration) to Hillary. Yet none of the author's assertions about her actions are wrong or unfair. I will reiterate: you and other Hillary supporters here have done a remarkable job of giving her infinite leeway on her inadequacies while bashing the hell out of the other candidates. Perhaps you would like to support why she is actually good, instead of why every other candidate is full of flaws and why hers just don't matter. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 24 2016 22:09 Plansix wrote: As long as we assume the heat death of the universe will happen, he is 100% right. I don’t think buying silver will help, though. wait, isn't that super old and people think it's doing the exact opposite by now expanding way faster than it should resulting in stuff getting colder if anything as things stretch out more and more? Where are people who know their shit about this stuff when you need them~ | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On March 24 2016 22:20 LegalLord wrote: I will reiterate: you and other Hillary supporters here have done a remarkable job of giving her infinite leeway on her inadequacies while bashing the hell out of the other candidates. Perhaps you would like to support why she is actually good, instead of why every other candidate is full of flaws and why hers just don't matter. This is just not true. Perhaps you only started following the thread recently, but Hillary supporters have repeatedly acknowledged that she has shortcomings, and they have outlined differences in views that they have with her on various topics on many occasions. The point is that she remains the most competent, knowledgeable and pragmatic candidate, while also being progressive, driven, capable of getting things done and more honest than the other candidates about what can be achieved. She's also put forward her plans on a wide range of issues, plans that are more detailed and economically sound that those of her rivals. She's on the right side of most issues, and she's the right candidate to both safeguard the progress that has been achieved under Obama in various policy areas and further that progress. edit: there's also the added bonus of sticking it to the Republicans who have been dishonestly attacking her for 25 years. Their tears in November will be delicious. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On March 24 2016 22:09 LegalLord wrote: That is an unfortunate, yet very Baltic, take on things. Not that it really matters because in terms of FP understanding, the US lives in a whole different world than every other country. No real sense of viable long-term strategy and easily duped into creating stupid conflicts that won't end well for the US, but benefit other countries that want to have the US fight wars on their behalf (with grossly overpriced airplanes no less). I wonder if that has a lot to do with why you like Hillary? If I were to be a mouthpiece for the Estonian govt., I'd be singing the FP praises of Kasich who aligns best. There is a bit of bias I haven't mentioned because one of Hillary's promised policies would probably lead to my wife getting a raise, but I haven't even mentioned this policy as a positive in this thread. But what I really meant with my comment is that Hillary is the only candidate remaining who can pronounce those pesky long words in international relations. Case in point: | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
Seems like a good Foreign policy to me. To be fair he has said he will look at the Iran deal but I am not sure what that even means. It appears as though he wants to undo the Cuba/Iran relationships/deals or atleast renogotiate them(whatever that means). | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i've spoken in praise of the direction of some of bernie's policies and would want to see him push them instead of personally attacking hillary or the 'establishment'. but when i see the same old stuff from the sandernistas i don't really see the point of a reasonable discussion. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On March 24 2016 23:03 Ghanburighan wrote: If I were to be a mouthpiece for the Estonian govt., I'd be singing the FP praises of Kasich who aligns best. There is a bit of bias I haven't mentioned because one of Hillary's promised policies would probably lead to my wife getting a raise, but I haven't even mentioned this policy as a positive in this thread. But what I really meant with my comment is that Hillary is the only candidate remaining who can pronounce those pesky long words in international relations. Case in point: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/712969068396093440 I think that Trump is ahead of the curve on many issues, and his stance on NATO is the perfect example. NATO, as presently constituted, operated, and used, is obsolete. We are due to have a discussion on what NATO is and should be going into the future. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On March 24 2016 23:06 Kipsate wrote: Its probably along the lines of all we have to do is to hire the best people and the smartest people, I know some of the best people who know a lot of words and have good brain, the best brain. We are going to make so many deals its going to be great Seems like a good Foreign policy to me. To be fair he has said he will look at the Iran deal but I am not sure what that even means. It appears as though he wants to undo the Cuba/Iran relationships/deals or atleast renogotiate them(whatever that means). As long as Irana is sending a lot of its youth to the university, they should solve their problems themselves. Just let them access the market so they can also educate the countryside. Maybe calming down Israel would help too. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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KwarK
United States42682 Posts
On March 24 2016 13:14 xDaunt wrote: Of course he didn't write it. No presidential candidate writes their own speeches. And every presidential candidate relies upon advisers for guidance in forming policy. The point is that we're starting to see some policy depth to Trump's campaign. Trump said his biggest foreign policy adviser was himself because he thinks himself has a great mind and him's uncle was at MIT. That quote is pretty much verbatim. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On March 24 2016 14:15 GreenHorizons wrote: There are several responses there that touch on why that was an absurd (and rather late and obscure) response. We could start with totally ignoring that AZ isn't the first place this has happened or how Hillary surrogates were on television lauding the lines up until now. It rings as hollow as most of what comes out of her camp. Kudos for them eventually saying something though. A lot of the outrage is clearly from people who are very new to the process, thus those who have been around for awhile and are aware of the problems have trouble understanding that level of tension. First time you go to the DMV it sucks major ass-- you realize that the forms of ID you brought don't work because their website is outdated. Then you wait like 3 hours there, turns out the location doesn't have the forms you want so you have to go to another location. First couple times you do that, immensely irritating and you feel the full force of bureaucracy screwing you. The next times you know what to expect, prepare a little better and come in with much lower expectations, so it's not as bad. Difference here is the DMV, while important, isn't on quite the same level as voting-- so in this case, a lot of people don't make it a life goal to make the DMV better. Clinton and "the establishment" have been fighting shit like this for years across the entire US, not just Arizona. It's a problem that we've known about and struggled with for a long time. Welcome to the struggle. You guys are discovering something that's new to you, but very well known to us. So I guess it's okay for you to talk about. First time is special. Just keep some perspective about how special though, since a lot of people know how it is. We empathize cuz we know exactly how much it sucks, but we don't really sympathize I think. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On March 24 2016 23:14 xDaunt wrote: I think that Trump is ahead of the curve on many issues, and his stance on NATO is the perfect example. NATO, as presently constituted, operated, and used, is obsolete. We are due to have a discussion on what NATO is and should be going into the future. I do wonder where people get this idea from? NATO capabilities are at the heart of the military infrastructure of pretty much every country represented by a poster in this thread. As NATO has had decades to allow countries to specialize, no one country has unilateral defense capability anymore. Perhaps people think that NATO hasn't modernized, but as with most military matters, they do it without fanfare. NATO currently runs 6 missions, mostly peacekeeping (think Africa), but there's still Afghanistan and for those worried about terrorism and illegal immigration into Europe, that's mostly done by NATO maritime capabilities, especially on the coordination front. Recall that article five has been tapped only once in recent history, and that was by the US in response to 9/11. No government in NATO is calling for an overhaul, but there are plenty of those who call for reaffirming their commitment (Besides the US, even Germany is calling for countries to push up their defense spending to 2% of GDP and just launched a modernization plan that aims to push up German defense spending). Besides this, since Russia and China started their aggressive military modernization and started expanding their territories by questionable means (think Crimea and artificial islands in the South China Sea), most NATO countries see the need to bolster article five. In fact, that's driving countries that have historically been neutral into NATO (think Sweden and Finland) to join. Just as additional evidence for this, NATO just finished one of the largest article five exercises since the Cold War (link I could actually go into much more detail on this, as this is only skimming the surface of the issue, but as pretty much any foreign policy expert has said, Trump's position is ignorant and ludicrous. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
4in or less is at 50/1 odds but 9in or less is at 3/1. I think the 3/1 is overvalued because if trump had a huge dick we would all know about it by now. But 50/1 is horribly undervalued IMO. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28665 Posts
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On March 24 2016 23:03 Ghanburighan wrote: If I were to be a mouthpiece for the Estonian govt., I'd be singing the FP praises of Kasich who aligns best. There is a bit of bias I haven't mentioned because one of Hillary's promised policies would probably lead to my wife getting a raise, but I haven't even mentioned this policy as a positive in this thread. But what I really meant with my comment is that Hillary is the only candidate remaining who can pronounce those pesky long words in international relations. Case in point: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/712969068396093440 Kasich isn't getting elected so it's a pretty moot point  .Yeah, I agree that she is well spoken enough on FP issues and that she's not the absolute worst choice. I agree with her on some issues of FP and think that most of the Republican flak she gets is unfounded (they don't attack her on her actual numerous blunders but on partisan BS like Benghazi). In light of the inability of Hillary supporters in here to acknowledge her weaknesses, though, I see no point in discussing her strengths. Maybe during the general we'll get a better chance to discuss those, since she probably isn't losing to Bernie right now. On March 24 2016 23:08 oneofthem wrote: most of the thread is about shitflinging because of ridiculous stuff by trump etc. if it's more of a serious discussion thread we might want to talk about healthcare reform and positive policies toward tackling inequality and so on. i've spoken in praise of the direction of some of bernie's policies and would want to see him push them instead of personally attacking hillary or the 'establishment'. but when i see the same old stuff from the sandernistas i don't really see the point of a reasonable discussion. Trump certainly has derailed the political discussion, that much we can agree on. It's the Republican Party's fault, really. The attacks on Sanders and his supporters, though, are not really well founded and are more ad hom than accurate. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15689 Posts
On March 24 2016 23:27 Ghanburighan wrote: I do wonder where people get this idea from? NATO capabilities are at the heart of the military infrastructure of pretty much every country represented by a poster in this thread. As NATO has had decades to allow countries to specialize, no one country has unilateral defense capability anymore. Perhaps people think that NATO hasn't modernized, but as with most military matters, they do it without fanfare. NATO currently runs 6 missions, mostly peacekeeping (think Africa), but there's still Afghanistan and for those worried about terrorism and illegal immigration into Europe, that's mostly done by NATO maritime capabilities, especially on the coordination front. Recall that article five has been tapped only once in recent history, and that was by the US in response to 9/11. No government in NATO is calling for an overhaul, but there are plenty of those who call for reaffirming their commitment (Besides the US, even Germany is calling for countries to push up their defense spending to 2% of GDP and just launched a modernization plan that aims to push up German defense spending). Besides this, since Russia and China started their aggressive military modernization and started expanding their territories by questionable means (think Crimea and artificial islands in the South China Sea), most NATO countries see the need to bolster article five. In fact, that's driving countries that have historically been neutral into NATO (think Sweden and Finland) to join. Just as additional evidence for this, NATO just finished one of the largest article five exercises since the Cold War (link I could actually go into much more detail on this, as this is only skimming the surface of the issue, but as pretty much any foreign policy expert has said, Trump's position is ignorant and ludicrous. It is interesting to see that a large part of Trump's strategy is to present issues as extremely basic or simple, pointing out obvious flaws that could clearly be fixed. By being the guy to relay this message, people come to have a lot of faith in him and see him as the guy with answers. And he's not only the guy with answers, he's the guy communicating issues in a clear, concise way that uneducated people can easily understand. They are gross oversimplifications which are usually also incorrect, but it gets the job done. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
On March 24 2016 23:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: If only 'we will never actually know' because I think even Trump is above posting a dick selfie as part of his presidential campaign was an option, I'd place a bet. Im prepared to wait until we find out after he forgets to zip his pants at the nursing home or something | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
he's certainly no stranger to that scene just going by the choice of wives. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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