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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2986

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23664 Posts
February 22 2016 11:20 GMT
#59701
So what do people think the offers are to Kasich to drop out before his Midwest strategy has a chance to kick in?

I have to imagine they are trying anything humanly possible. If they have 4 campaigns through the 15th of March states that pretty much ensures a Trump nomination, short of a meltdown.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19307 Posts
February 22 2016 14:00 GMT
#59702
On February 22 2016 17:48 Yoav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2016 16:05 trulojucreathrma.com wrote:
On February 22 2016 09:49 Nyxisto wrote:
Has anybody ever bothered to answer how you're supposed to tell me if someone is a 'muslim'? There isn't a central institution where every Muslim registers. Islam is a faith, there are no Muslim passports, are you just going to ban whole countries? Iranians can't enter the United States anymore? This is so fucking nuts


Make them drink pig's blood. If they refuse -> Muslim -> no entrance into the US.


That'll play well in Florida.

If my state votes for Trump I'm going to be so disappointed. I don't know anyone in my office or personal life who believes he is anything but a joke.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
February 22 2016 14:14 GMT
#59703
I don't think he's a joke.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-22 14:20:24
February 22 2016 14:18 GMT
#59704
On February 22 2016 13:52 Rebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2016 13:35 LegalLord wrote:
Anyone who thinks of Trump's garden variety xenophobia as fascism has never seen real fascism. We use that term way too liberally to accuse people we don't like of being mass murderers in the making.


And pray tell where you have observed this real fascism so that we can benefit from your onhand experience ?

Although I do agree, calling it fascism is rather severe.


The thing about fascism is it never looks like fascism when it starts out. It’s a slow burn that takes years until you get to that dark reality. I agree that a Trump isn’t there yet, but it still a good discussion to have. For the minorities that he keeps throwing shade on and threatening to ban, he is terrifying. And that should be enough to merit a discussion.

On February 22 2016 23:14 IgnE wrote:
I don't think he's a joke.

Well no one is perfect.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 22 2016 14:34 GMT
#59705
fascism as practiced heavily involves the military. the u.s. military isn't going to control the civilian government, and as much as people get paranoia about the security agencies they are pretty small and limited as well. a security state like russia is far closer to fascism than the u.s.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
puerk
Profile Joined February 2015
Germany855 Posts
February 22 2016 14:44 GMT
#59706
nobody said the US at present already resembles fascism....
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 22 2016 14:49 GMT
#59707
i'll say though this latest trump rant against apple is pretty fascist.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-22 14:55:33
February 22 2016 14:51 GMT
#59708
It is normally too late to discuss concerns about fascism once your country is in a police state.

Edit: The Apple, FBI show down is part of the democratic process. Apple is protesting what it sees as an overstep of government authority. The government is trying to enforce an order obtained through public due process to protect its citizens. Once both sides calm down a bit and start talking, a compromise will likely be reached. Trump railing against it shows he doesn’t really respect or understand protests.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 22 2016 14:56 GMT
#59709
Leading researchers have called on the world’s largest association of earth and space scientists to reject sponsorship from ExxonMobil, because of the oil company’s record of funding climate denial.

In a letter made available to the Guardian, climate scientists James Hansen (formerly of Nasa), Michael Mann (Penn State), Kerry Emanuel (MIT) and more than 100 other researchers said they were deeply troubled by the “well-documented complicity of ExxonMobil in climate denial and misinformation”.

The scientists urged the American Geophysical Union to reject funding from Exxon, as a matter of scientific integrity. The AGU’s annual meetings are among the largest of their kind, drawing about 25,000 scientists.

Exxon is under criminal investigation in New York and California for misleading investors and the public about the dangers of climate change.

The Guardian, Inside Climate News and the Los Angeles Times reported last year that the oil company knew about climate risks and factored them into planning as early as the 1970s – but continued to fund organisations rejecting established science well into the 2000s.

“In part [thanks] to Exxon, the American public remains confused and polarized about climate change,” the letter said. “And thanks in part to Exxon, climate science­-denying members of Congress and lobby groups operating at the state level remain a major obstacle to US efforts to mitigate climate change.”

The letter said that history should disqualify Exxon as a sponsor, because of AGU rules barring financial ties to scientific disinformation.

About 4,000 AGU members will gather in New Orleans on Monday for an oceans meeting.

The AGU said in a blogpost that it would review Exxon’s current activities, and take up the issue at a board meeting in April. Last year, the association decided there was no reason to cut financial connections with the oil company.

Exxon said news reporting about it’s activities was “inaccurate and deliberately misleading”.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
February 22 2016 15:05 GMT
#59710
Y'all need to start thinking outside of the box a little bit when assessing Trump -- both in terms of his platform and his chances at winning the presidency.

And in case you missed it, Emerson is showing Trump getting 50% of the vote in the Massachusetts primary.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 22 2016 15:09 GMT
#59711
it is the way trump says what he says. his fearmongering and drawing of nationalism is pretty fascist
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
puerk
Profile Joined February 2015
Germany855 Posts
February 22 2016 15:09 GMT
#59712
On February 22 2016 23:51 Plansix wrote:
It is normally too late to discuss concerns about fascism once your country is in a police state.

Edit: The Apple, FBI show down is part of the democratic process. Apple is protesting what it sees as an overstep of government authority. The government is trying to enforce an order obtained through public due process to protect its citizens. Once both sides calm down a bit and start talking, a compromise will likely be reached. Trump railing against it shows he doesn’t really respect or understand protests.

is it clear already how the data on the one undestroyed and government owned work phone of the terrorist can protect citicens from anything?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 22 2016 15:11 GMT
#59713
I was unaware we had Republicans primaries in MA. But I guess winning over that tiny fraction of people would be easy for Trump. I know the exact section of the state he will win over too.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-22 15:11:57
February 22 2016 15:11 GMT
#59714
Muted Response to Bernie Sanders at South Carolina Church


WEST COLUMBIA, S.C. — The problem began as soon as Bernie Sanders walked into the dining room of the revered, and predominantly black, Brookland Baptist Church. Instead of flocking to him, as people do at his large college rallies, many of church’s 780 members looked up for a moment, then quietly went back to eating their Sunday feast — unmoved as Mr. Sanders, the Democratic senator from Vermont, tried to work the room.

He made remarks at a microphone next to a buffet table offering chicken, collard greens and dinner rolls. The line at the table kept moving as Mr. Sanders and Benjamin T. Jealous, a former N.A.A.C.P. president, spoke. The Brookland Baptist congregation proved to be a tough crowd.

“We have in America today a broken criminal justice system,” Mr. Sanders said, pausing briefly after this line from his stump speech, which is usually met with applause. Here it garnered very little.

His visit underscored Mr. Sanders’s difficulty in strengthening his support among black voters in South Carolina, who make up more than half of registered Democrats heading into the state primary this Saturday. While some applauded politely as he offered now-familiar lines about racial discrimination, the loudest claps came when he talked about President Obama.


Source

Video:
+ Show Spoiler +


To be fair, I probably would have gone back to eating too, but that was a pretty big failure to read the situation. When people are eating like that you should be working the room introducing yourself to tables and chatting with the audience. You give the speech when people are done eating. This was pretty 'please clap' worthy.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 22 2016 15:15 GMT
#59715
On February 23 2016 00:09 puerk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2016 23:51 Plansix wrote:
It is normally too late to discuss concerns about fascism once your country is in a police state.

Edit: The Apple, FBI show down is part of the democratic process. Apple is protesting what it sees as an overstep of government authority. The government is trying to enforce an order obtained through public due process to protect its citizens. Once both sides calm down a bit and start talking, a compromise will likely be reached. Trump railing against it shows he doesn’t really respect or understand protests.

is it clear already how the data on the one undestroyed and government owned work phone of the terrorist can protect citicens from anything?

Court orders are court orders. The judge decided the phone should be open for review, rather than assume nothing of value is on it. I am all for making informed decisions, rather than just assuming that Apples encryption is more valuable. The FBI and Apple need to work it out. One suggestion from NPR this morning was that Apple open the phone and provide the FBI with the data, but strip of information how they opened it. Let Apple protect its encryption as best it can.

At the end of the day, they are going to have to open an Iphone in the future. So its better for both sides to come up with a solution.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22103 Posts
February 22 2016 15:18 GMT
#59716
On February 22 2016 23:51 Plansix wrote:
It is normally too late to discuss concerns about fascism once your country is in a police state.

Edit: The Apple, FBI show down is part of the democratic process. Apple is protesting what it sees as an overstep of government authority. The government is trying to enforce an order obtained through public due process to protect its citizens. Once both sides calm down a bit and start talking, a compromise will likely be reached. Trump railing against it shows he doesn’t really respect or understand protests.

Are you aware that the FBI purposefully locked every other way of obtaining the data just so they could try to force apple to create a backdoor?
I would not really call that part of the democratic process but Tampering with evidence which is a crime.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-mega-thread?page=2982#59622
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11752 Posts
February 22 2016 15:20 GMT
#59717
I still like the safe maker analogy. I don't think a court order can force a safe maker to deliberately make their safes less safe by having a key for every single one of them at house somewhere.

The solution is simple. Either the FBI figure a way out to open encrypted phones, or they are out of luck. Because even if they manage to bully apple into corrupting their security (which is not going to be easy), there are ways to encrypt a phone that they simply can't find someone to bully into making a back door for them, like open source encryption. I am very much against the government forcing tech companies to make stuff less secure for everyone just so they can spy onto their population better.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 22 2016 15:34 GMT
#59718
On February 23 2016 00:20 Simberto wrote:
I still like the safe maker analogy. I don't think a court order can force a safe maker to deliberately make their safes less safe by having a key for every single one of them at house somewhere.

The solution is simple. Either the FBI figure a way out to open encrypted phones, or they are out of luck. Because even if they manage to bully apple into corrupting their security (which is not going to be easy), there are ways to encrypt a phone that they simply can't find someone to bully into making a back door for them, like open source encryption. I am very much against the government forcing tech companies to make stuff less secure for everyone just so they can spy onto their population better.

The safe maker analogy does have the flaw that the safe is physical and can be cut into or bypassed. If the safe were rigged to destroy its contents or dangerous if forced open, the government could order the creator to assist. Companies have opened up their encryption for email and other phones.

And the government developing its own anti-encryption software isn’t a great solution for privacy either. That is how we got into the data gathering and other back doors into our IPs. Because once they can do it, they might not go through the public facing process of obtaining a court order.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 22 2016 15:36 GMT
#59719
President Barack Obama said it best this week.

When it comes to who gets to appoint Supreme Court justices, the Constitution is pretty freaking clear.

"I'm amused when I hear people who claim to be strict interpreters of the Constitution suddenly reading into it a whole series of provisions that are not there," Obama said.

But in the blatant declaration that Obama should not even put forward a new Supreme Court nominee to fill the vacancy left by Justice Antonin Scalia's death, Republicans are continuing to delegitimize a president that they have long sought to undercut. Many observers view the Supreme Court emerging drama in the Senate as the pinnacle of the drawn out, deep-seated and racially tinged effort to block America's first black president from leaving a lasting legacy on the country that elected him twice.

Obama's presidency has been marked repeatedly by moments where opponents have sought to define him as "other." As recently as September 2015, 43 percent of Republican voters still believed Obama was Muslim despite Obama's strong and consistent public affirmations of his Christian faith. Twenty percent of Americans still thought Obama had been born outside of the United States despite the fact that the president has publicly turned over his birth certificate identifying that he was born in Hawaii.

"Clearly, you have an element in the Republican Party who is very uncomfortable with diversity in this country," says Cornell Belcher, the president of Brilliant Corners Research & Strategies and a former pollster for both the Democratic National Committee and the Obama campaign.

Some congressional actions against Obama have been blatantly demeaning and disrespectful, from the time Rep. Joe Wilson (R-S.C.) screamed "you lie" in a visceral outburst at Obama as he delivered a health care address before Congress in 2009 or the time Rep. Steve King said in 2008 before Obama was even elected that that if Barack "Hussein" Obama won the White House, terrorists "would be dancing in the streets in greater numbers than they did on Sept. 11."

Earlier this month, the Senate and House budget committees broke with decades-old tradition and decided not to invite the president's budget director to testify before their respective committees about the president's budget, a move that one senior staffer to a Congressional Black Caucus member concluded came "from a dark place."

The Supreme Court fight has resurfaced uncomfortable and troubling questions about the nature of the opposition to Obama and the willingness of his opponents to defy norms and conventions that previous presidents were accorded.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43609 Posts
February 22 2016 15:37 GMT
#59720
On February 22 2016 23:34 oneofthem wrote:
fascism as practiced heavily involves the military. the u.s. military isn't going to control the civilian government, and as much as people get paranoia about the security agencies they are pretty small and limited as well. a security state like russia is far closer to fascism than the u.s.

Not really. The military has always been a bulwark of the old establishment that the fascist popular movement has had to overcome and bring under its control through the use of paramilitary forces. Fascists want to use the military but the military has no desire to be used by the kind of plebs who become fascists.

The largest organized resistance to Hitler came from his own army, even after he appointed his own men to all the positions of power.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
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