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On February 22 2016 09:34 puerk wrote:seriously? you link the page where just one subpage away it is written www.donaldjtrump.com: Show nested quote +New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on. i never said something about trump wanting to place them in concentration camps, just deny them their rights and ban them it does not really matter if you consider the impurity in your country to be the pesky jews or the pesky muslims that ruin everything and have to be purged..
So muslims have a right to inmigrate to the US? They are not U.S. citizens.The last time I tried to travel there I was required to have a visa.
I'm not sure what he means by "muslims". I think the press release refers to bringing refugees in.
In any case, that is not even remotely close to Hitler, as you pointed out ("i never said something about trump wanting to place them in concentration camps, just deny them their rights and ban them")
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(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182
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Has anybody ever bothered to answer how you're supposed to tell me if someone is a 'muslim'? There isn't a central institution where every Muslim registers. Islam is a faith, there are no Muslim passports, are you just going to ban whole countries? Iranians can't enter the United States anymore? This is so fucking nuts
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On February 22 2016 09:40 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2016 09:34 puerk wrote:seriously? you link the page where just one subpage away it is written www.donaldjtrump.com: New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on. i never said something about trump wanting to place them in concentration camps, just deny them their rights and ban them it does not really matter if you consider the impurity in your country to be the pesky jews or the pesky muslims that ruin everything and have to be purged.. So muslims have a right to inmigrate to the US? They are not U.S. citizens.The last time I tried to travel there I was required to have a visa. I'm not sure what he means by "muslims". I think the press release refers to bringing refugees in. In any case, that is not even remotely close to Hitler, as you pointed out ("i never said something about trump wanting to place them in concentration camps, just deny them their rights and ban them")
total and complete ban for muslims, you know there are muslim us soldiers deployed oversees, there are muslim citicens working and traveling abroad?... you know that nothing about "muslim" means "foreign" its a stupid overwrought scapegoating generalization just like "the jews"
just because trump did not have the chance to put people in camps yet doesnt mean he doesnt like the idea... people from his campaign at least called the japanese internment camps in the us a good idea
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On February 22 2016 09:49 Nyxisto wrote:
Has anybody ever bothered to answer how you're supposed to tell me if someone is a 'muslim'? There isn't a central institution where every Muslim registers, are you just going to ban whole countries? Iranians can't enter the United States anymore? This is so fucking nuts
Well according to Jeb! you can just tell. You can just tell someone is Christian, so its follows you can just tell someone is Muslim.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ji1DkOF.png)
User was warned for this post
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I'm just gonna leave Umberto Eco's definition of fascism here... (and link conservative columnist Douthat's piece here):
"The Cult of Tradition", combining cultural syncretism with a rejection of modernism.
"The Cult of Action for Action's Sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself, and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science.
"Disagreement Is Treason" - fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action.
"Fear of Difference", which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants.
"Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class", fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups.
"Obsession with a Plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat; This often involves an appeal to xenophobia with an identification of their being an internal security threat
"Pacifism is Trafficking with the Enemy" because...
"Life is Permanent Warfare" - there must always be an enemy to fight
"Contempt for the Weak" - although a fascist society is elitist, everybody in the society is educated to become a hero
"Selective Populism" - the People have a common will, which is not delegated but directed by a dictator; This casts doubt upon a democratic institution, because the leader and government "no longer represent the Voice of the People".
"Newspeak" - fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning.
"Non-truths & Lying/Spread of Propaganda"
I mean, to be clear, Trump fits at least some definitions of fascism just fine...
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Trump is very reminiscent of FDR's style, just updated for the modern age. And its no coincidence that that same newspaper, over half a century ago, compared FDR and Mussolini. Along with many others including the Washington Post.
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I guess the most important feature of fascism is a preference for the organic and primitive society over 'artificial civilization' and Trump is certainly guilty of promoting that. Especially his huge following among the "anti-pc" crowd is basically the digital version of that idea.
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On February 22 2016 11:43 Yoav wrote:I'm just gonna leave Umberto Eco's definition of fascism here... (and link conservative columnist Douthat's piece here): " The Cult of Tradition", combining cultural syncretism with a rejection of modernism. " The Cult of Action for Action's Sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself, and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science. " Disagreement Is Treason" - fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action. " Fear of Difference", which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants. " Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class", fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups. " Obsession with a Plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat; This often involves an appeal to xenophobia with an identification of their being an internal security threat " Pacifism is Trafficking with the Enemy" because... " Life is Permanent Warfare" - there must always be an enemy to fight " Contempt for the Weak" - although a fascist society is elitist, everybody in the society is educated to become a hero " Selective Populism" - the People have a common will, which is not delegated but directed by a dictator; This casts doubt upon a democratic institution, because the leader and government "no longer represent the Voice of the People". " Newspeak" - fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning. " Non-truths & Lying/Spread of Propaganda" I mean, to be clear, Trump fits at least some definitions of fascism just fine...
That list put me more in the mind of the totalitarian Left.
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On February 22 2016 12:53 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2016 11:43 Yoav wrote:I'm just gonna leave Umberto Eco's definition of fascism here... (and link conservative columnist Douthat's piece here): " The Cult of Tradition", combining cultural syncretism with a rejection of modernism. " The Cult of Action for Action's Sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself, and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science. " Disagreement Is Treason" - fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action. " Fear of Difference", which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants. " Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class", fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups. " Obsession with a Plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat; This often involves an appeal to xenophobia with an identification of their being an internal security threat " Pacifism is Trafficking with the Enemy" because... " Life is Permanent Warfare" - there must always be an enemy to fight " Contempt for the Weak" - although a fascist society is elitist, everybody in the society is educated to become a hero " Selective Populism" - the People have a common will, which is not delegated but directed by a dictator; This casts doubt upon a democratic institution, because the leader and government "no longer represent the Voice of the People". " Newspeak" - fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning. " Non-truths & Lying/Spread of Propaganda" I mean, to be clear, Trump fits at least some definitions of fascism just fine... That list put me more in the mind of the totalitarian Left.
well it's about the totalitarian right so obviously there's overlapping with the totalitarian left in points. There's more to the spectrum than just left and right.
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I mean moreso than it sounding like Trump.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Anyone who thinks of Trump's garden variety xenophobia as fascism has never seen real fascism. We use that term way too liberally to accuse people we don't like of being mass murderers in the making.
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On February 22 2016 13:35 LegalLord wrote:
Anyone who thinks of Trump's garden variety xenophobia as fascism has never seen real fascism. We use that term way too liberally to accuse people we don't like of being mass murderers in the making.
And pray tell where you have observed this real fascism so that we can benefit from your onhand experience ?
Although I do agree, calling it fascism is rather severe.
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On February 22 2016 11:43 Yoav wrote:I'm just gonna leave Umberto Eco's definition of fascism here... (and link conservative columnist Douthat's piece here): " The Cult of Tradition", combining cultural syncretism with a rejection of modernism. " The Cult of Action for Action's Sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself, and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science. " Disagreement Is Treason" - fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action. " Fear of Difference", which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants. " Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class", fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups. " Obsession with a Plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat; This often involves an appeal to xenophobia with an identification of their being an internal security threat " Pacifism is Trafficking with the Enemy" because... " Life is Permanent Warfare" - there must always be an enemy to fight " Contempt for the Weak" - although a fascist society is elitist, everybody in the society is educated to become a hero " Selective Populism" - the People have a common will, which is not delegated but directed by a dictator; This casts doubt upon a democratic institution, because the leader and government "no longer represent the Voice of the People". " Newspeak" - fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning. " Non-truths & Lying/Spread of Propaganda" I mean, to be clear, Trump fits at least some definitions of fascism just fine...
lol this has been the gameplan of the modern Democrat left for how long now?
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On February 22 2016 13:52 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2016 13:35 LegalLord wrote:
Anyone who thinks of Trump's garden variety xenophobia as fascism has never seen real fascism. We use that term way too liberally to accuse people we don't like of being mass murderers in the making. And pray tell where you have observed this real fascism so that we can benefit from your onhand experience ?
East Europe in the republics of the USSR/Warsaw Pact. It's been there for close to a century (its rise came about the same time as the Nazi party in Germany and there were often co-conspirators), and it still exists to an extent that it does not in Germany itself. The Banderovtsy (a group whose hero is a Ukrainian who is also a Nazi co-conspirator) is a pretty good example, and they wear pretty explicit Nazi-esque symbolism. There are more in multiple countries but going into detail would be a pretty annoying derail. These elements have always existed but they were suppressed pretty strongly by the USSR - personally I expect we'll see more of fascism at some point in the future.
These are the kind of fascists that pretty explicitly advocate ethnic cleansing. Trump's populist anti-Muslim/Mexican rhetoric? Not even close.
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On February 22 2016 09:49 Nyxisto wrote:
Has anybody ever bothered to answer how you're supposed to tell me if someone is a 'muslim'? There isn't a central institution where every Muslim registers. Islam is a faith, there are no Muslim passports, are you just going to ban whole countries? Iranians can't enter the United States anymore? This is so fucking nuts
Make them drink pig's blood. If they refuse -> Muslim -> no entrance into the US.
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On February 22 2016 16:05 trulojucreathrma.com wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2016 09:49 Nyxisto wrote:
Has anybody ever bothered to answer how you're supposed to tell me if someone is a 'muslim'? There isn't a central institution where every Muslim registers. Islam is a faith, there are no Muslim passports, are you just going to ban whole countries? Iranians can't enter the United States anymore? This is so fucking nuts Make them drink pig's blood. If they refuse -> Muslim -> no entrance into the US.
That'll play well in Florida.
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Just ask them if Jesus Christ is their lord and savior. If not --> muslim.
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has the added benefit of not having to make up some other story to get rid of all those people who aren't religious or those who are but aren't muslim nor christian
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EPT
