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On December 08 2015 01:35 ticklishmusic wrote:
Hillary is dropping her financial regs platform today, so we'll see how it goes
The NYTimes summary seems like she's gonna go pretty hard on Wall Street.
The majority of my works comes from banks needing legal representation. They need regulation badly, simply to save themselves from themselves. Forget to big to fail, they are to big to function.
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United States43964 Posts
On December 08 2015 01:32 ticklishmusic wrote:
Trump has a huge advantage when it comes to the for the lulz voters, which is a very important demographic to win over
But can he get them to the ballot box?
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On December 08 2015 01:27 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 01:24 farvacola wrote:On December 08 2015 01:17 Mohdoo wrote:On December 08 2015 01:11 ElMeanYo wrote:
I think you guys are underestimating how much Trump could round up if he got into a competitive race and wanted to out-spend his opponent. I'm not even talking about his own assets. For all his craziness he's a pretty shrewd businessman. And a downright master of rhetoric. I honestly believe he could manage to appeal to democrats. Supports single payer as well as a slew of other "common sense" liberal policies. That's how amazing he is. He supports these things while also gathering the support of the hard right. He's a political genius. He's also an unpredictable sociopath who will say anything to gather support. He would 100% obliterate Sanders. He would find the perfect stuff to say to completely write off Sanders' policies. It wouldn't all be truthful, genuine, or even moral. But I guarantee you that with some people already being somewhat skeptical of Sanders' policies (even when people agree with him), Trump would be able to frame Sanders' overlying philosophy as misguided, unrealistic, unamerican and just...fringe. you're drinking too much primary kool-aid, dawg. The past two election cycles (hell, US presidential election cycles generally) have taught us that, crazy race to the ideological bottom notwithstanding, the general election plays out entirely differently than the primary. So yeah, claims of "political genius" are gonna have to wait until, at the very least, Trump gets the Republican nomination. I don't support him and I would never vote for him, but there is a reason he was laughed off as a joke for a long time. He's doing the impossible and I think people hate him too much to give him proper credit. My point is that I think Trump can manage to race to the ideological bottom and then turn around and sprint for the center as soon as a general election started. Or he could at least do so 100x better than Sanders. If Trump somehow snatches the nomination from Rubio, we better hope Clinton continues her dominance.
I think you attribute Trump far more competence than he actually possesses based upon his performance thus far. I haven't seen any 1v1 polls lately, but I have my doubts that he would beat Rubio or Cruz (and maybe even Carson) if they didn't all have to deal with each other. Once primaries actually start, I think his inexperience with actually managing a campaign (rather than the PR he has done his whole life) will throw this into stark relief.
And before you say it, managing a business and managing a campaign are not the same skills at all, or Romney wouldn't have lost to McCain in 2008 and in 2012 have ended up believing he was going to win the election (he had far more business acumen in his little finger than Trump has in his entire body).
We'll see though.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
simple questions trump could ask that would obliterate sanders:
are you gonna raise tax to pay for your programs?
rekt doubly hard because sanders would be going on about spending this and free that
while trump's image is bad right now, he's also not a true believer in anything. true believers are incredibly vulnerable in the general election to being hoisted by their own petard. the sanders base will be all optimistic and stuff about socialist america rising until the harsh reality hits and find themselves unable to adjust
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Gotcha politics don't work after the primary unless your name is John Kerry. It's almost as though you've never heard of Barry Goldwater lol.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
it's not even gotcha politics, it's about how realistic your platform actually is. nothing personal
you are honestly expecting america to be willing to try some MMT level voodoo if you think sanders' platform is electable.
the early season poll numbers are particularly illusory because of how little people know about the candidates. at this stage the candidates have to be evaluated on potential vulnerabilities along strategic rather than statistical thinking. and in this aspect sanders has huge vulnerabilities that a guy like trump would absolutely go in on.
goldwater is actually an example of how a true believer got rekt by his own belief being exposed in a particularly unflattering way. the tax and budget question would be bernie's nuclear war question.
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And therein lies the catch; you either don't understand or don't believe that entitlement reform and spending re-prioritization can cover the costs of Sanders' platform programs. Now I'll admit that effectively communicating those ideas is incumbent on Sanders and that doing so poses a pretty tough challenge, but those concerns are hardly the basis for an outright rejection of Sanders as a viable candidate.
All in all, my point is that most of this boils down to fortune telling at this point; in the event that Hillary wins the primary, which is, of course, a likely outcome, none of this hubbub matters 
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If we're talking questions Trump could ask Sanders, there's quite a few simple questions a monkey could ask Trump that would humiliate him. The only reason the other candidates in the primary don't is because they're scared of him and/or they're saving them as haymakers when the field narrows.
"Have you found that video of Muslims in New Jersey cheering for 9/11 yet?"
"What is your economic policy, exactly? Would you change anything about Wall Street?"
"What is your foreign policy, exactly? What would you have done differently from Obama?"
"Do you actually read any of the bills you talk about?"
"Could you name five Secretaries of State?" alternately, "Do you know who Alexander Haig is?"
"Why do you disagree with the immigration platform on your own site?"
"Why exactly do you call people ugly so much?"
I'm sure there are more.
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Americans are willing to accept voodoo as tax policy all the time, see the Republican tax plan since 2000. Powered by black magic. If they ask Trump if he going to raise taxes and he says "no", Sanders can respond by simply saying Trump is lying and being unrealistic. Its not like the last two elections were decided on that question. Raising taxes polls poorly, but its not a deal breaker for most voters.
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Haven't you learned yet? Interviewrs asking actual question is not liked by the candidates (and, as that rep debate showed) by the viewers.
They rather live in their bubble.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On December 08 2015 02:33 farvacola wrote:And therein lies the catch; you either don't understand or don't believe that entitlement reform and spending re-prioritization can cover the costs of Sanders' platform programs. Now I'll admit that effectively communicating those ideas is incumbent on Sanders and that doing so poses a pretty tough challenge, but those concerns are hardly the basis for an outright rejection of Sanders as a viable candidate. All in all, my point is that most of this boils down to fortune telling at this point; in the event that Hillary wins the primary, which is, of course, a likely outcome, none of this hubbub matters
entitlement reform as a source of funding isn't realistic as either policy or rhetoric. the AARP will carry florida alone.
the way to push for necessary infrastructure and human investment is to emphasize the reform and problem targeting nature of specific spending proposals. merely saying we'll spend on this and that isn't going to fly in america, where the middle class is still feeling rather overtaxed.
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On December 08 2015 02:33 farvacola wrote:And therein lies the catch; you either don't understand or don't believe that entitlement reform and spending re-prioritization can cover the costs of Sanders' platform programs. Now I'll admit that effectively communicating those ideas is incumbent on Sanders and that doing so poses a pretty tough challenge, but those concerns are hardly the basis for an outright rejection of Sanders as a viable candidate. All in all, my point is that most of this boils down to fortune telling at this point; in the event that Hillary wins the primary, which is, of course, a likely outcome, none of this hubbub matters
b-b-b-b-but what would we talk about in this thread?
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On December 08 2015 02:34 TheTenthDoc wrote:
If we're talking questions Trump could ask Sanders, there's quite a few simple questions a monkey could ask Trump that would humiliate him. The only reason the other candidates in the primary don't is because they're scared of him and/or they're saving them as haymakers when the field narrows.
"Have you found that video of Muslims in New Jersey cheering for 9/11 yet?"
"What is your economic policy, exactly? Would you change anything about Wall Street?"
"What is your foreign policy, exactly? What would you have done differently from Obama?"
"Do you actually read any of the bills you talk about?"
"Could you name five Secretaries of State?" alternately, "Do you know who Alexander Haig is?"
"Why do you disagree with the immigration platform on your own site?"
"Why exactly do you call people ugly so much?"
I'm sure there are more.
those are questions trump would smash. would probably make interviewer look incredibly bad in the process.
it's a telling feature of the trump candidacy that his negatives are mostly the 'moral' sort. a lot of people though are simply tuned out from that. of course he'll get absolutely destroyed among white college educated liberal segment of the population, but those won't translate into electoral votes.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On December 08 2015 02:37 Plansix wrote:
Americans are willing to accept voodoo as tax policy all the time, see the Republican tax plan since 2000. Powered by black magic. If they ask Trump if he going to raise taxes and he says "no", Sanders can respond by simply saying Trump is lying and being unrealistic. Its not like the last two elections were decided on that question. Raising taxes polls poorly, but its not a deal breaker for most voters.
they are fine with voodoo in two directions, tax cut and spending cut.
increased spending AND tax raise is about as toxic as it comes in the fiscal policy.
sanders will likely be talking about raising taxes on the rich and such, but this makes him easily caricatured as a class warrior sort of dude. again, pretty bad.
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On December 08 2015 02:43 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 02:37 Plansix wrote:
Americans are willing to accept voodoo as tax policy all the time, see the Republican tax plan since 2000. Powered by black magic. If they ask Trump if he going to raise taxes and he says "no", Sanders can respond by simply saying Trump is lying and being unrealistic. Its not like the last two elections were decided on that question. Raising taxes polls poorly, but its not a deal breaker for most voters. they are fine with voodoo in two directions, tax cut and spending cut. increased spending AND tax raise is about as toxic as it comes in the fiscal policy. sanders will likely be talking about raising taxes on the rich and such, but this makes him easily caricatured as a class warrior sort of dude. again, pretty bad.
The voting public tends not like the rich, especially if they are not paying taxes. Politics on the internet are not reflective of real life politics. Obama ran on a very similar platform to what Sanders is running on, raises taxes on the rich and large business, close loop holes. I think you are underestimating the desire in the US to have these issues addressed.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
obama was tasked with answering the question of how to address the deficit, while bernie wants to increase it. the deficit fairy is the stuff of nightmares for old folks.
but really the most incredible problem is the true believer's lack of the sense of danger.
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On December 08 2015 02:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 02:43 oneofthem wrote:On December 08 2015 02:37 Plansix wrote:
Americans are willing to accept voodoo as tax policy all the time, see the Republican tax plan since 2000. Powered by black magic. If they ask Trump if he going to raise taxes and he says "no", Sanders can respond by simply saying Trump is lying and being unrealistic. Its not like the last two elections were decided on that question. Raising taxes polls poorly, but its not a deal breaker for most voters. they are fine with voodoo in two directions, tax cut and spending cut. increased spending AND tax raise is about as toxic as it comes in the fiscal policy. sanders will likely be talking about raising taxes on the rich and such, but this makes him easily caricatured as a class warrior sort of dude. again, pretty bad. The voting public tends not like the rich, especially if they are not paying taxes. Politics on the internet are not reflective of real life politics. Obama ran on a very similar platform to what Sanders is running on, raises taxes on the rich and large business, close loop holes. I think you are underestimating the desire in the US to have these issues addressed.
Free college is the one thing that I have seen basically no one agreeing with Sanders on irl. It has allowed many people I know to just write him off as a loon
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On December 08 2015 01:45 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 01:35 ticklishmusic wrote:
Hillary is dropping her financial regs platform today, so we'll see how it goes
The NYTimes summary seems like she's gonna go pretty hard on Wall Street. The majority of my works comes from banks needing legal representation. They need regulation badly, simply to save themselves from themselves. Forget to big to fail, they are to big to function.
Actually, larger banks tend to be more stable iirc. It's an inherently tricky industry to manage too. Any new regs need to be very well thought out.
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On December 08 2015 03:07 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 02:48 Plansix wrote:On December 08 2015 02:43 oneofthem wrote:On December 08 2015 02:37 Plansix wrote:
Americans are willing to accept voodoo as tax policy all the time, see the Republican tax plan since 2000. Powered by black magic. If they ask Trump if he going to raise taxes and he says "no", Sanders can respond by simply saying Trump is lying and being unrealistic. Its not like the last two elections were decided on that question. Raising taxes polls poorly, but its not a deal breaker for most voters. they are fine with voodoo in two directions, tax cut and spending cut. increased spending AND tax raise is about as toxic as it comes in the fiscal policy. sanders will likely be talking about raising taxes on the rich and such, but this makes him easily caricatured as a class warrior sort of dude. again, pretty bad. The voting public tends not like the rich, especially if they are not paying taxes. Politics on the internet are not reflective of real life politics. Obama ran on a very similar platform to what Sanders is running on, raises taxes on the rich and large business, close loop holes. I think you are underestimating the desire in the US to have these issues addressed. Free college is the one thing that I have seen basically no one agreeing with Sanders on irl. It has allowed many people I know to just write him off as a loon
Just another thing where Americans cant believe it would ever work while it tends to work reasonably well for many other nations.
(their not necessarily all free but the cost of college in the US is retarded and should be addressed)
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Please. The fact that our universities cost so much is ridiculous, same with healthcare. The reason prices are allowed to get so high is because they are allowed to charge whatever the hell they want for things and people will pay it. Even shitty online degrees can set people back tens of thousands of dollars, its such a joke. And lets hope no one gets seriously ill, your entire family will be forced into bankruptcy to keep you from losing your life or limbs.
Some things just shouldn't be purely profit driven.
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EPT
