EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2312
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10939 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 18 2015 13:20 GreenHorizons wrote: The majority of the Republican party thinks he is either foreign born or are not sure (same for the Muslim thing). It's not hyperbole, it's most of the modern Republican party. Is anyone really shocked that a sizable section of the US population believes totally fictitious reasons why the first black President shouldn’t be President? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 18 2015 21:57 Plansix wrote: Is anyone really shocked that a sizable section of the US population believes totally fictitious reasons why the first black President shouldn’t be President? I question the validity of the saying the "majority of Republicans" believe that. Maybe it's because I'm in New England, but is there a statistic that backs that claim up? (Question directed more at GH, I suppose) | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 18 2015 22:15 jcarlsoniv wrote: I question the validity of the saying the "majority of Republicans" believe that. Maybe it's because I'm in New England, but is there a statistic that backs that claim up? (Question directed more at GH, I suppose) I do as well. My father and grandfather were Republicans and there was no way. However, I do believe a lot of Republicans that vote in the primaries believe one of those two things. And if I limit the sample to Trump supporters, it in the 80-90% range. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 18 2015 22:23 Plansix wrote: I do as well. My father and grandfather were Republicans and there was no way. However, I do believe a lot of Republicans that vote in the primaries believe one of those two things. And if I limit the sample to Trump supporters, it in the 80-90% range. Again, I'm going to have to request a source for that statistic. It's a fairly easy logical jump to make, but it's a significant claim without data to pack it up. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On September 18 2015 16:29 Eliezar wrote: So many good answers to the American Woman...Maria Mayer, Rosa Parks(given), Helen Keller I wouldn't choose Susan B Anthony because she's already been on money. Abigail Adams was a reasonable answer, but I wouldn't choose her. Possibly someone from the abolition movement like Lucretia Mott. But to be fair...I think keeping the same people on money is fine, but it would be a bit more interesting if they just printed a full set of $1, $2, $5, $10, $20, $50, and $100 notes one year with all women and then returned to the norm. It would be a great opportunity to broaden the awareness of the contributions of a plethora of women. Fiorina's answer was by far the best, imo. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 18 2015 22:27 jcarlsoniv wrote: Again, I'm going to have to request a source for that statistic. It's a fairly easy logical jump to make, but it's a significant claim without data to pack it up. There was a reason I said "I believe" in my post. I don't think the stats on Republicans that think Obama is Muslim are really available. Or that a poll for that information could be taken accurately. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46279 Posts
On September 18 2015 22:39 Plansix wrote: There was a reason I said "I believe" in my post. I don't think the stats on Republicans that think Obama is Muslim are really available. Or that a poll for that information could be taken accurately. It's literally a Yes or No question though. 1. Do you identify as a Republican? YES NO 2. Do you think that President Obama is a Muslim? YES NO | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46279 Posts
On September 18 2015 22:31 Jibba wrote: Fiorina's answer was by far the best, imo. That was a good answer, but I think the Statue of Liberty is a good answer too. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 18 2015 22:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: It's literally a Yes or No question though. 1. Do you identify as a Republican? YES NO 2. Do you think that President Obama is a Muslim? YES NO Yes, but I question if people would answer that truthfully in a poll. It’s like tests if people have racial bias by asking them if they do. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46279 Posts
On September 18 2015 22:49 Plansix wrote: Yes, but I question if people would answer that truthfully in a poll. It’s like tests if people have racial bias by asking them if they do. I think anonymity can help remove social desirability bias though. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 18 2015 22:39 Plansix wrote: There was a reason I said "I believe" in my post. I don't think the stats on Republicans that think Obama is Muslim are really available. Or that a poll for that information could be taken accurately. Which, in my mind, lacks as much integrity as Trump saying "I believe that a huge number of vaccines in a short period of time causes autism." Neither his nor your statements are backed up with evidence, even if framed as an opinion. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On September 18 2015 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: That was a good answer, but I think the Statue of Liberty is a good answer too. Sadly, the idea of Lady Liberty holding a torch of peace/progress and a book of law and welcoming the tired poor huddled masses is about as far away from the ideas espoused at that Republican debate as you can get. On September 18 2015 22:49 Plansix wrote: Yes, but I question if people would answer that truthfully in a poll. It’s like tests if people have racial bias by asking them if they do. I think most people that think Obama is a Muslim would shout it from the rooftops. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46279 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Introductions… Rand Paul defends the Constitution AND the Bill of Rights? BOTH! Wow! Mike Huckabee… sigh. Marco Rubio… great drought joke there. Fail. Ted Cruz received no clapping, for good reason. Ben Carson has zero personality. Maybe he performed a lobotomy on himself? Wait, Donald Trump is rich? He also just listed off all his opinions and policies in 30 seconds, so he can go home now, right? Jeb Bush always looks like he’s dazedly reciting something. Nothing bad to say about Scott Walker yet. I have the feeling there will be plenty of opportunities for that later though. Carly Fiorina seems nice. A failed CEO and a failed mother, but nice. John Kasich already stumbling over his words… come on, you’re the guy I like! America is that shining city on a hill? Facepalm. That whole introduction literally made zero sense. Chris Christie. Cute video turnaround idea, but seriously, fuck this guy. #notmygovernor First question… about Trump. Here we go again. Carly should have slammed him. Too PC of an answer. Launch codes are kind of serious. Rand Paul used the word “non sequitur” correctly. Trump called him funny looking. What? Why is anyone talking about Bobby Jindal? Why is no one answering the question -.-‘ Scott Walker holding Trump’s feet to the fire! Bankruptcy! I like it! 15 minutes in and I’m liking Scott Walker most, so far. “Just because [Trump] says it doesn’t make it true.” Woot! No Kasich, people shouldn’t turn off the debate because of arguments. There need to be more arguments. Agree with the ad hominem statement though. Second question... politicians needing to play politics. Christie, please don’t use New Jersey as ammunition. A pretty good conservative response to the question though. Ben Carson must have learned his communication and social skills from Mitt Romney. Holy robot wtf. Botox? His face doesn’t move. I like iCarly’s answers so far. Jeb! vs. Trump on Florida casinos. How arbitrary. Wait, Trump(TM) is rich? Trump(TM) vs. Jeb! is pretty awesome. Carson you are sooooo boooooring. After 25 minutes, we’re already at Russia. As if the conservatives could even run their own country, let alone be a part of the global conversation. Trump thinks he’d get along well with the heads of China and Mexico and Russia. After his racist remarks. Lol. Jake Tapper is occasionally trying to hold candidates to actually answering the question, but Trump is too Trumpy. I’m not well-versed in foreign policy, but at least Rubio had a serious and well thought out response, unlike Trump. iCarly wants war sooo hard. Easy there, champ. Iran Deal. Cruuuuuuz shuuuut uuuuuuup. Kasich talking a little sense about how we can’t be the World Police on our own, and how we can actually hold Iran accountable if they break the deal. Rand Paul nailing the fact that we should still have communication with our enemies if possible, not isolate ourselves/ others if things are working out, etc. Nice answer there. Jeb Bush and Dumb Fuckabee talking about our commitment to Israel. It’d be nice if we weren’t committed to the Middle East. Rubio misinterpreting a pinprick attack for weakness, rather than a warning. Paul again recommending caution and intelligence when approaching Middle East conflict. Does he realize who he’s standing next to? Kasich is also speaking some sense about being smart, rather than brash. Huckabee and Kim Davis… oh god. The criminalization of Christianity is the biggest joke ever. I hate this man. Ninth grade civics? Oh fuck off. Jeb Bush should be harder on Huckabee and Davis, but he’s too much of a wuss. Defunding Planned Parenthood? This is suuuuch a non-issue x.x Government shutdown over this. lol. Does Cruz actually believe any of the stuff he’s saying? He belongs in an asylum. Oh goodie, Christie bragging about defunding PP in New Jersey. Who wants to start the Aaaaass-hooooole chant? Annnnd Carly wants more war. If she were president, we’d be bombing a country every 28 days. Christ. Trump: “I respect women.” Facepalm. Trump: “North Career” = North Korea? Carly SMACKED Trump down with that short and sweet “Women all over the country heard what he said.” Immigration. You get deported! And YOU get deported! Everyone gets deported! Trump: First of all, I want to build a wall… Oh for fuck’s sake. Christie wants to use drones to secure our border. Jeb’s wife is apparently the talk of the town. I like Jeb’s defense of speaking Spanish and showing respect. Trump’s got epic Resting Bitch Face, but I’d much rather call it Donald Duck Face. Cruz sucking Trump’s dick so hard, presumably because Trump will win the nomination and he’s said that he would consider taking Cruz on board. Rubio: “40% of people who come here illegally, come here illegally.” Wtf? I love how Trump not only accuses Mexican immigrants of not contributing to society, but Asians too. Wow. Carly had a pretty good response to her HP CEO situation. Trump’s rebuttal was less impressive imo. Carly smacked Trump again with the fact that Trump filed for bankruptcy 4 times. Nice comment from Christie, telling the two CEOs to stfu about their one-percenter stories. Don’t know how Obama is screwing over the middle class though. Ben Carson promoting a Biblical flat tax. Omg. Relative tax increases = Socialism??? Lol Christie going to prosecute Hillary Clinton. Gtfo. Trump doesn’t know Muslim leaders because Arab names are confusing? Ahahahahaha. I really like Rubio’s statements that the next president needs to really know his shit, implying that Trump doesn’t. He’s a firecracker tonight. Cuba. The answer to the question you were looking for, Jeb!, is Cuba. We have better relations with Cuba now than we did before Obama came to office. Cuba. Even I know that one. And quite frankly, probably a lot of other nations, since GWB was a putz. GWB kept us safe? Really, Jeb? Meh. Trump is still clearly full of shit though, and Paul wants to respond to Trump’s 9/11 jabs sooo badly. I’m glad he’s finally getting to respond. No one, including Trump, should be hijacking Paul’s platform of peace and restraint. Christie thinks that 9/11 is a justification for prosecuting people before they commit crimes. Minority Report much? Huckabee just used the word Intelligence. I feel like that should disqualify him from breathing. I wish the candidates would stop saying our military is weak and needs more funding. It’s tiring. (2 hours in.) Mike Huckabee, do you believe that the unborn child is a false dichotomy, or a false dichotomy? Rand Paul laying the smackdown on anti-pot hypocrites, and the inconsistency between “Conservatives = states rights, small federal government” and “…Except pot! And abortion! And religion!” Great point on medical marijuana, Paul! Is there actually an “epidemic” of heroin in New Hampshire? Jeb! just said there was. Christie stating that being pro-life is more than just being anti-abortion, but also relating it to people getting treatment (rather than straight to jail) for non-violent drug offenses. Very good point there. Carly suggesting that marijuana is more dangerous than alcohol. Goooooo awayyyyyy. She probably earned some pity points on burying her child though. Guns, guns, guns. While it’s true that guns don’t kill people, they make it a hell of a lot easier to kill a hell of a lot more people. They still think Obama is taking away everyone’s guns. Lol. Trump with a pretty good answer to Social Security not needing to go to the rich, including himself. It makes me sad that the references to the left have been 50% Hillary, 50% Obama, and 0% Bernie. I like how Tapper positioned the climate change question in the context of “Reagan took it seriously, the scientists are right about climate change, now what are you gonna do about it?”, rather than making its reality sound like a controversial issue. Rubio: “America is not a planet.” Not a false statement. (In context, it made sense to say that, but it’s still a funny statement imo.) Suddenly, the whole stage is no longer “skeptical” of climate change? They’re no longer climate change deniers? When the hell did that happen? Before the debate, did they all agree to not bring up that huge black mark on their anti-science agenda? Okay vaccines. Here we go. Why is everyone so careful not to step on anyone else’s toes? “Ben Carson, should Trump stop saying that vaccines cause autism?” “Well, let me put it this way…” God dammit! Just. Say. YES HE SHOULD STOP SAYING IT. IT’S A BIG DEAL. Trump says autism is out of control now, because more people nowadays are correctly diagnosed than 20-30 years ago. Obviously, it’s because we have more knowledge of the disorder, but his “medical take” is ludicrous. Huckabee asking why we don’t try to cure cancer. Are you fucking kidding me. “Name a historical American woman to put on the $10 bill.” And half the candidates can’t name a single historical American woman. We must construct additional Palins? Christie loves Morticia  Secret Service Codenames hahahaha. Christie’s is sooo lame. True Heart? Wtf. Edit: They’re all lame. Huckabee wants to be called Duck Hunter? Like the video game? Okay then, Mike Duckabee. Paul’s statement that war should be the last resort, not the first resort, really resonates with me. Props to the candidates for lasting almost 3 hours. Damn. Final thoughts on the overall debate: -Personally, Rand Paul resonated with me the most. That makes sense, as he’s libertarian and not nearly as conservative as the others. -I think for any common sense conservatives looking for a candidate who wasn’t on auto-pilot or a fool, Rubio was really, really impressive in his eloquence. He had some actual answers and really fleshed out thoughts that I think he portrayed quite nicely, even if I don’t necessarily agree with his positions. -Trump wasn’t nearly as Trump-like tonight. He wasn’t in charge of the whole debate, he wasn’t quite as smug and douchey, and he got slapped around a bit because of some of his stupid remarks and ideas. He’s still using the same cop-out quotes that he’s been touting for months now, magically building walls and magically creating jobs and magically making America great again. I think he might have peaked, and this might be the point where people who voted for him as an entertaining idea might start to think twice because he doesn’t actually know anything. -Carly came out swinging and strong, which was impressive. -Everyone else was relatively forgettable for me. Except Cruz, because his face is still punchable. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46279 Posts
On September 18 2015 22:55 TheTenthDoc wrote: Sadly, the idea of Lady Liberty holding a torch of peace/progress and a book of law and welcoming the tired poor huddled masses is about as far away from the ideas espoused at that Republican debate as you can get. I agree, but I think it'd be a clever answer ^^ | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 18 2015 22:54 jcarlsoniv wrote: Which, in my mind, lacks as much integrity as Trump saying "I believe that a huge number of vaccines in a short period of time causes autism." Neither his nor your statements are backed up with evidence. Well thank god the standards for posting your opinion on an internet forum and stating something as fact during a televised presidential debate are the same. I don’t know how I will live with your disapproval. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 18 2015 22:59 Plansix wrote: Well thank god the standards for posting your opinion on an internet forum and stating something as fact during a televised presidential debate are the same. I don’t know how I will live with your disapproval. Hah, point acknowledged.  Obviously Trump should be held to a higher standard (not that he will ever meet it). I just find it hypocritical to rail against someone for not meeting that standard when you contradict it yourself. @DPB: Rubio: “40% of people who come here illegally, come here illegally.” Wtf? I'm pretty sure he said "40% of people who are here illegally come here legally". Meaning that they went through the correct process initially, but then stayed and didn't follow through? I'm not sure - I'll admit I don't know a lot about immigration policy/procedures. -Personally, Rand Paul resonated with me the most. I agree wholeheartedly. I wish he could get more time/support from the right - he's someone who I could have a conversation with and then not want to tear my hair out afterwards. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On September 18 2015 22:59 Plansix wrote: Well thank god the standards for posting your opinion on an internet forum and stating something as fact during a televised presidential debate are the same. I don’t know how I will live with your disapproval. as a practical matter I must note that I think the standards on this forum are higher than they were in the debate. edit: re: jcarlson unsureness on immigration in second section in post above: yeah, it's around 40%; they come in on some other visa (like a tourist visa, or a student visa) then just don't go back to their country. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11951 Posts
On September 18 2015 23:18 jcarlsoniv wrote: Hah, point acknowledged. Obviously Trump should be held to a higher standard (not that he will ever meet it). I just find it hypocritical to rail against someone for not meeting that standard when you contradict it yourself. @DPB: I'm pretty sure he said "40% of people who are here illegally come here legally". Meaning that they went through the correct process initially, but then stayed and didn't follow through? I'm not sure - I'll admit I don't know a lot about immigration policy/procedures. They probably mean something like entering on a tourist visa and simply never leaving again. | ||
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