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I'm a bit hesitant to step into this thread at all, but had a few comments/questions -
It sort of sounds like the current debate is about, in a way, the idea of splitting up the country by congressional district (or something similar) rather than by state - (difference between Eastern Washington and Western Washington already covered, presumably the same exists for New York) - I don't think it's the thought of secession so much as it is just trying to split sections of the country into smaller administrative units; like Northern NY and Southern NY in the same way that we have West Virginia and Virginia or something. I'm probably just missing the point entirely though ^_^;;
Also I was curious - GreenHorizons, I've tended to disagree with your opinions on the police but assumed that the primary difference was just our locations - (I had assumed you lived somewhere on the east side of the US, where most of the recent negative events have been), but your comments on WSU and the Gorge suddenly made me question that haha. Speaking as a resident of Eastern Washington, are the police here actually that bad, in your opinion? I've never had any troubles or heard anything negative about them (other than the reasonable advice to avoid speeding in or around small towns on the way to WSU, which is absolutely true).
Sorry if my phrasing is poor haha x_x
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On May 08 2015 06:08 JinDesu wrote:
I think what Militron is going for, correct me if I'm wrong, is that NY should be split into the red part and the blue part. The blue part can have the S.A.F.E. law and the red part can be as hick as they want.
And there is some merit to that argument if there is a large group of people being subjugated under the rule of a larger group of people, simply because they are all lumped together under the same government. But once we allow several districts to secede from their state because they disagree with the way the state is being run, where is the line drawn? Next individual districts will try the same when they feel they are being misrepresented.
So the population of NYC is 8.5 million but the population of NY State is 20 million. If this law was as controversial as he claims and only NYC was in favor, shouldn't it have failed anyways? I was under the impression that NYC made up the majority of New York's population, but that isn't the case. And yes, it is definitely possible that political corruption allowed something to be passed that the majority of the people did not want.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
upstate new york would be a shithole without the city's resources.
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On May 08 2015 04:53 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 04:21 hunts wrote:On May 08 2015 03:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 08 2015 03:10 zlefin wrote:On May 08 2015 02:23 Millitron wrote:On May 08 2015 02:17 zlefin wrote:
Sounds like you need to rewrite the state constitution to put in better safeguards. A big problem with that is that NYC is a totally different culture than the rest of the state. Upstate NY is much more rural, and mostly conservative. NYC is obviously urban, and is very liberal. We don't get along at all. There's no way to keep both groups happy under the same constitution. Take the SAFE act for example again. Only one district outside NYC voted in favor of it. And yet it still passed. Well, one solution would be to split into two states. Another would be to focus on making legislation that can have broad support, though that one is trickier. Also, I'm sure you can keep both happy under the same constitution, constitutions are broad enough to do that, unlike laws. The same fight comes up every election in Washington. Western Washington has all the people and the coastline though, so if Eastern Washington ever did leave they would wither on the vine shortly after. They practically fund their police from people traveling through to WSU or the Gorge. Which are both mainly constituted of visitors from outside eastern Washington. All I know is if you don't like your states laws (say the SAFE act) or legislators one is just supposed to move to another state or change it legislatively, not bitch and moan and wish it was different? Lol yeah basically. I'm gonna be moving to wsu from Seattle for fall semester so I'll basically have to go exactly the speed limit through all of eastern Washington to avoid having to give free money to some small hick town. I'm sure they were livid when they couldn't ticket and drag people to court over small cannabis possession. Admittedly not all of them are total dicks though. story time: + Show Spoiler + One time on a trip to the Gorge for an endfest in an old VW hippy van, Our driver didn't have a seatbelt so they pulled us over (they had an officer sitting on the offramp flagging people to keep going or pull over for no seatbelt). We convinced him the bus was made before seatbelts were required for the back seats (as we were sitting in beanbags and such) and that the smell he smelt was in fact what the officer referred to as "the lingering aroma of Tacoma" and not some illicit substance. He wrote the driver a ticket (which we pooled for since he did the most of the smooth talking) and sent us on our way. I have a dozen bad stories for every good one but that cop was cool (as cool as you can be farming seatbelt tickets anyway).
Damn, and yeah a lot of my friends have gotten tickets driving through eastern washington, especially my friend whos currently at WSU. I've ever driven there myself yet, is it actually true that you just have to go the exact speed limit through those hick towns? Or is there some anti asshole cop law that doesn't allow them to ticket you for speeding unless you're going 3+ over or something?
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On May 08 2015 06:54 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 04:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 08 2015 04:21 hunts wrote:On May 08 2015 03:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 08 2015 03:10 zlefin wrote:On May 08 2015 02:23 Millitron wrote:On May 08 2015 02:17 zlefin wrote:
Sounds like you need to rewrite the state constitution to put in better safeguards. A big problem with that is that NYC is a totally different culture than the rest of the state. Upstate NY is much more rural, and mostly conservative. NYC is obviously urban, and is very liberal. We don't get along at all. There's no way to keep both groups happy under the same constitution. Take the SAFE act for example again. Only one district outside NYC voted in favor of it. And yet it still passed. Well, one solution would be to split into two states. Another would be to focus on making legislation that can have broad support, though that one is trickier. Also, I'm sure you can keep both happy under the same constitution, constitutions are broad enough to do that, unlike laws. The same fight comes up every election in Washington. Western Washington has all the people and the coastline though, so if Eastern Washington ever did leave they would wither on the vine shortly after. They practically fund their police from people traveling through to WSU or the Gorge. Which are both mainly constituted of visitors from outside eastern Washington. All I know is if you don't like your states laws (say the SAFE act) or legislators one is just supposed to move to another state or change it legislatively, not bitch and moan and wish it was different? Lol yeah basically. I'm gonna be moving to wsu from Seattle for fall semester so I'll basically have to go exactly the speed limit through all of eastern Washington to avoid having to give free money to some small hick town. I'm sure they were livid when they couldn't ticket and drag people to court over small cannabis possession. Admittedly not all of them are total dicks though. story time: + Show Spoiler + One time on a trip to the Gorge for an endfest in an old VW hippy van, Our driver didn't have a seatbelt so they pulled us over (they had an officer sitting on the offramp flagging people to keep going or pull over for no seatbelt). We convinced him the bus was made before seatbelts were required for the back seats (as we were sitting in beanbags and such) and that the smell he smelt was in fact what the officer referred to as "the lingering aroma of Tacoma" and not some illicit substance. He wrote the driver a ticket (which we pooled for since he did the most of the smooth talking) and sent us on our way. I have a dozen bad stories for every good one but that cop was cool (as cool as you can be farming seatbelt tickets anyway). Damn, and yeah a lot of my friends have gotten tickets driving through eastern washington, especially my friend whos currently at WSU. I've ever driven there myself yet, is it actually true that you just have to go the exact speed limit through those hick towns? Or is there some anti asshole cop law that doesn't allow them to ticket you for speeding unless you're going 3+ over or something?
Obzy: I haven't been to eastern washington, but heard the cops are super anal about speeding and just about all things traffic, and that they basically just get their money by pulling over college kids and tourists.
edit: Meant to edit my post not make a new one, is there a way to delete?
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On May 08 2015 06:37 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 06:08 JinDesu wrote:
I think what Militron is going for, correct me if I'm wrong, is that NY should be split into the red part and the blue part. The blue part can have the S.A.F.E. law and the red part can be as hick as they want. And there is some merit to that argument if there is a large group of people being subjugated under the rule of a larger group of people, simply because they are all lumped together under the same government. But once we allow several districts to secede from their state because they disagree with the way the state is being run, where is the line drawn? Next individual districts will try the same when they feel they are being misrepresented. So the population of NYC is 8.5 million but the population of NY State is 20 million. If this law was as controversial as he claims and only NYC was in favor, shouldn't it have failed anyways? I was under the impression that NYC made up the majority of New York's population, but that isn't the case. And yes, it is definitely possible that political corruption allowed something to be passed that the majority of the people did not want.
Well, the first theory is the point of Federalism, which is gradually being eroded as the Federal government grows. The theory is that people are happier with more localized rule because it allows not only for people to more specifically tailor policies to local populations, but that freedom of movement also lets people relocate to places with policies that they favor.
So its not about seceding, its larger sized governments respecting minority populations within them, although I do agree with the general proposition that many states are too large right now: NY, Texas, Cali, Florida come to mind immediately.
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On May 08 2015 06:15 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 06:08 JinDesu wrote:
I think what Militron is going for, correct me if I'm wrong, is that NY should be split into the red part and the blue part. The blue part can have the S.A.F.E. law and the red part can be as hick as they want. That's called secession. I don't think it's popular in the US, there was some kind of war about it. In the UK however we're fine with letting Scotland choose if it wants to leave after years of rule by a government the Scots never voted for.
Eye of the beholder. You call it secession, I call it independence. You call them terrorists, I call them freedom fighters. Tomato, tomato, etc. etc. Abraham Lincoln was a rabid nationalist, so of course his view will be one of iron domination. Governments do not let their tax slaves easily go - lots of lost money and power in that, and as Governments go, that's their MO - to acquire money and power. In any event, empirically, city-states were much more conducive to modern values than large Nation-States and Empires. All the bitching about how 'hicks' and rural folk holding back this enlightened urban utopia's, yet it never crosses these peoples minds that they could have what they want without strong opposition by just letting them go politically. I mean, it isn't rocket science. However, it isn't about that - it's always about control and domination. A seething hatred for different ways of life and values than their own. In many regards the people so admonished, they're so much alike. Why can't folk just let folk govern themselves? God forbid such an idea should become popular!
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On May 08 2015 06:31 Obzy wrote:
I'm a bit hesitant to step into this thread at all, but had a few comments/questions -
Also I was curious - GreenHorizons, I've tended to disagree with your opinions on the police but assumed that the primary difference was just our locations - (I had assumed you lived somewhere on the east side of the US, where most of the recent negative events have been), but your comments on WSU and the Gorge suddenly made me question that haha. Speaking as a resident of Eastern Washington, are the police here actually that bad, in your opinion? I've never had any troubles or heard anything negative about them (other than the reasonable advice to avoid speeding in or around small towns on the way to WSU, which is absolutely true).
Sorry if my phrasing is poor haha x_x
I live in Western Washington. Admittedly the cops here are not nearly as bad as elsewhere in the country. Some places are worse than others, but I'm more inclined to accept the bad apple argument around here generally. Considering W. Washington is probably as diverse and integrated as it gets in the US it's not usually a systemic issue. Here the issues are more about the 'thin blue line' or whatever with them covering for each other when they do in fact screw up, or just a few assholes who have clear bias.
That being said, there was this incident Pasco police said that+ Show Spoiler + after “low-level force” failed to bring Zambrano-Montes under control and the deployment of a Taser had “no effect”, officers fired on the suspect after his “threatening behaviour” continued.
But footage of the incident uploaded to YouTube on Wednesday appears to show the final stages of Zambrano-Montes’ altercation with police. He can be seen running away from three officers before turning to face them as they fire.
The disturbing footage appears to show an officer first discharging a Taser and then three officers chasing Zambrano-Montes across the road before firing. Around 10 shots can be heard and it appears all three officers have their weapons raised, although it it is unclear if all fired.
Seconds before the shooting, it appears that Zanbrano-Montes momentarily raises his hands in the air.
Another video uploaded to YouTube on Wednesday captured the aftermath of the scene, in which a bystander can be heard calling “it was just a rock” to police officers standing over Zambrano-Montes’ body.
I posted about it when it happened but it didn't make many waves. There have been protests and such but it's mostly Hispanic people (and they haven't set anything on fire) so it's largely been ignored by both sides.
On May 08 2015 07:09 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 06:15 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2015 06:08 JinDesu wrote:
I think what Militron is going for, correct me if I'm wrong, is that NY should be split into the red part and the blue part. The blue part can have the S.A.F.E. law and the red part can be as hick as they want. That's called secession. I don't think it's popular in the US, there was some kind of war about it. In the UK however we're fine with letting Scotland choose if it wants to leave after years of rule by a government the Scots never voted for. Eye of the beholder. You call it secession, I call it independence. You call them terrorists, I call them freedom fighters. Tomato, tomato, etc. etc. Abraham Lincoln was a rabid nationalist, so of course his view will be one of iron domination. Governments do not let their tax slaves easily go - lots of lost money and power in that, and as Governments go, that's their MO - to acquire money and power. In any event, empirically, city-states were much more conducive to modern values than large Nation-States and Empires. All the bitching about how 'hicks' and rural folk holding back this enlightened urban utopia's, yet it never crosses these peoples minds that they could have what they want without strong opposition by just letting them go politically. I mean, it isn't rocket science. However, it isn't about that - it's always about control and domination. A seething hatred for different ways of life and values than their own. In many regards the people so admonished, they're so much alike. Why can't folk just let folk govern themselves? God forbid such an idea should become popular!
Well I think the issue of the people clamoring the loudest for their independence are dependent on either the Feds or the part of their state they don't like is a bit of a hurdle.
For instance, E. Washington hates the laws and such that come out of Olympia but they sure like driving on the roads taxpayers in the West pay for. Same goes for several southern states. That's the whole reason alcohol age is 21 in the South. Not as if high school kids can't buy booze anyway though.
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On May 08 2015 07:02 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 06:54 hunts wrote:On May 08 2015 04:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 08 2015 04:21 hunts wrote:On May 08 2015 03:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 08 2015 03:10 zlefin wrote:On May 08 2015 02:23 Millitron wrote:On May 08 2015 02:17 zlefin wrote:
Sounds like you need to rewrite the state constitution to put in better safeguards. A big problem with that is that NYC is a totally different culture than the rest of the state. Upstate NY is much more rural, and mostly conservative. NYC is obviously urban, and is very liberal. We don't get along at all. There's no way to keep both groups happy under the same constitution. Take the SAFE act for example again. Only one district outside NYC voted in favor of it. And yet it still passed. Well, one solution would be to split into two states. Another would be to focus on making legislation that can have broad support, though that one is trickier. Also, I'm sure you can keep both happy under the same constitution, constitutions are broad enough to do that, unlike laws. The same fight comes up every election in Washington. Western Washington has all the people and the coastline though, so if Eastern Washington ever did leave they would wither on the vine shortly after. They practically fund their police from people traveling through to WSU or the Gorge. Which are both mainly constituted of visitors from outside eastern Washington. All I know is if you don't like your states laws (say the SAFE act) or legislators one is just supposed to move to another state or change it legislatively, not bitch and moan and wish it was different? Lol yeah basically. I'm gonna be moving to wsu from Seattle for fall semester so I'll basically have to go exactly the speed limit through all of eastern Washington to avoid having to give free money to some small hick town. I'm sure they were livid when they couldn't ticket and drag people to court over small cannabis possession. Admittedly not all of them are total dicks though. story time: + Show Spoiler + One time on a trip to the Gorge for an endfest in an old VW hippy van, Our driver didn't have a seatbelt so they pulled us over (they had an officer sitting on the offramp flagging people to keep going or pull over for no seatbelt). We convinced him the bus was made before seatbelts were required for the back seats (as we were sitting in beanbags and such) and that the smell he smelt was in fact what the officer referred to as "the lingering aroma of Tacoma" and not some illicit substance. He wrote the driver a ticket (which we pooled for since he did the most of the smooth talking) and sent us on our way. I have a dozen bad stories for every good one but that cop was cool (as cool as you can be farming seatbelt tickets anyway). Damn, and yeah a lot of my friends have gotten tickets driving through eastern washington, especially my friend whos currently at WSU. I've ever driven there myself yet, is it actually true that you just have to go the exact speed limit through those hick towns? Or is there some anti asshole cop law that doesn't allow them to ticket you for speeding unless you're going 3+ over or something? Obzy: I haven't been to eastern washington, but heard the cops are super anal about speeding and just about all things traffic, and that they basically just get their money by pulling over college kids and tourists. edit: Meant to edit my post not make a new one, is there a way to delete?
I wrote a post then a TLDR then started a PM then TLDR'd that too..
Whitman County
My recommendation would be to start taking speed limits literally once you enter that county. Up until then, my experience is that it's been the same as the rest of Washington. If you drive on highway 26, when you see Washtucna, start thinking about going exactly the speed limit. Plenty of people don't, but probably better safe than sorry haha.
also it would make sense that the tickets come from college students, given that there's a total population in that county of like 45k and there's like 20k students ^^;;
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United States42738 Posts
On May 08 2015 07:09 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 06:15 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2015 06:08 JinDesu wrote:
I think what Militron is going for, correct me if I'm wrong, is that NY should be split into the red part and the blue part. The blue part can have the S.A.F.E. law and the red part can be as hick as they want. That's called secession. I don't think it's popular in the US, there was some kind of war about it. In the UK however we're fine with letting Scotland choose if it wants to leave after years of rule by a government the Scots never voted for. Eye of the beholder. You call it secession, I call it independence. You call them terrorists, I call them freedom fighters. Tomato, tomato, etc. etc. Abraham Lincoln was a rabid nationalist, so of course his view will be one of iron domination. Governments do not let their tax slaves easily go - lots of lost money and power in that, and as Governments go, that's their MO - to acquire money and power. In any event, empirically, city-states were much more conducive to modern values than large Nation-States and Empires. All the bitching about how 'hicks' and rural folk holding back this enlightened urban utopia's, yet it never crosses these peoples minds that they could have what they want without strong opposition by just letting them go politically. I mean, it isn't rocket science. However, it isn't about that - it's always about control and domination. A seething hatred for different ways of life and values than their own. In many regards the people so admonished, they're so much alike. Why can't folk just let folk govern themselves? God forbid such an idea should become popular!
You're the one who treated secession as a dirty word. The British just gave the Scots the right to secede ffs.
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On May 08 2015 07:25 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 07:09 Wegandi wrote:On May 08 2015 06:15 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2015 06:08 JinDesu wrote:
I think what Militron is going for, correct me if I'm wrong, is that NY should be split into the red part and the blue part. The blue part can have the S.A.F.E. law and the red part can be as hick as they want. That's called secession. I don't think it's popular in the US, there was some kind of war about it. In the UK however we're fine with letting Scotland choose if it wants to leave after years of rule by a government the Scots never voted for. Eye of the beholder. You call it secession, I call it independence. You call them terrorists, I call them freedom fighters. Tomato, tomato, etc. etc. Abraham Lincoln was a rabid nationalist, so of course his view will be one of iron domination. Governments do not let their tax slaves easily go - lots of lost money and power in that, and as Governments go, that's their MO - to acquire money and power. In any event, empirically, city-states were much more conducive to modern values than large Nation-States and Empires. All the bitching about how 'hicks' and rural folk holding back this enlightened urban utopia's, yet it never crosses these peoples minds that they could have what they want without strong opposition by just letting them go politically. I mean, it isn't rocket science. However, it isn't about that - it's always about control and domination. A seething hatred for different ways of life and values than their own. In many regards the people so admonished, they're so much alike. Why can't folk just let folk govern themselves? God forbid such an idea should become popular! You're the one who treated secession as a dirty word. The British just gave the Scots the right to secede ffs.
On May 08 2015 07:04 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 06:48 darkness wrote:On May 08 2015 06:46 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2015 06:44 darkness wrote:
As long as UKIP has no chance to do anything, and if EU referendum is discarded, then I guess I'm happy as a foreigner in the UK. EU referendum pretty much has to happen but I think the chance of voting to leave is pretty low. Well, hopefully because the EU really helps people like me to actually feel more or less on par with British citizens' rights in the UK. I know some of British nationalists wouldn't like that but no one chooses their citizenship anyway. Edit: I haven't used the welfare system at all despite what UKIP likes to tell about Bulgarians and Romanians.  You're welcome to it if you need it, friend. The idea that you could simply leave the EU, or unilaterally negotiate your own special snowflake membership terms, is kind of silly honestly. The threat of a referendum has been used as a stick to beat the other parties with by UKIP and their success pushed it into popular politics but there has yet to be a plan for what would actually be done if the UK voted no. I don't think a referendum would be held by any party who didn't expect to win it (with win being a stay vote), the clusterfuck resulting from having to actually do anything would deter a party from risking it.
You're okay with Scotland leaving the UK, but not the UK leaving the EU. I don't know if the UK is the best example.
On May 08 2015 05:48 always_winter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 04:42 mordek wrote:On May 08 2015 03:16 always_winter wrote:
Lol I had initially read the plausible bit as agreement with my conclusion, when in fact it seems you're suggesting the finding of this survey is plausible. Might be time to step out of that bubble. If you're suggesting a majority of Americans would prefer a gay president over an overly religious one, I'm afraid you're disconnected from reality.
If you're expecting me to back that up with empirical data (was this a joke or....?), I'm definitely not going to. Feel like that kinda goes without saying. Could just be me. I like to have context. Much love. Anecdotally, I'm an evangelical Christian from Indiana who is comfortable with a gay president so there's that. But yes, all of us are the same over hurr in the sticks  Realistically, truthfully, unequivocally, non-anecdotally, the study posited Americans are MORE comfortable with a gay president than an evangelical. If you're actually telling me that you'd be more comfortable with a gay president than one who shares your faith and likely maintains a similar worldview, then you're either lying to dispute a straw man's argument or are are truly one in a million. I'm done derailing this thread with such nonsense. One love. Not everybody's a single issue voter. Keep that in mind even with your comical attribution of "overly religious" people. Both sides have voters with issues where one stance is where they stop reading.
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Republican legislators in Colorado will not authorize funding for a program that gives free IUDs to low-income women — an effort that many believe was responsible for hugely driving down teen births.
Colorado has recently experienced a stunning decline in its teen birth rate. Between 2007 and 2012, federal data shows that births declined 40 percent — faster than any other state in the country.
State officials attributed part of this success to the Colorado Family Planning Initiative, which provided free IUDs to low-income women seen at 68 family planning clinics across the state. Last year, state officials estimated that young women served by those family planning clinics accounted for about three-fourths of the overall decline in Colorado's teen birth rate.
An anonymous donor had previously funded the program, but Democrats in the Colorado Senate added $5 million to the state budget to keep the program going in the future. That effort died in a Republican-controlled state Senate committee late last week, putting the program in peril.
As the Denver Post reported, the IUD program in Colorado "faced resistance from fiscal hawks who consider the spending redundant and social conservatives who believe IUDs cause abortions, a point rejected by the medical community."
Colorado officials, meanwhile, have vowed to keep moving forward with the program regardless of the roadblock.
Source
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On May 08 2015 08:57 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +Republican legislators in Colorado will not authorize funding for a program that gives free IUDs to low-income women — an effort that many believe was responsible for hugely driving down teen births.
Colorado has recently experienced a stunning decline in its teen birth rate. Between 2007 and 2012, federal data shows that births declined 40 percent — faster than any other state in the country.
State officials attributed part of this success to the Colorado Family Planning Initiative, which provided free IUDs to low-income women seen at 68 family planning clinics across the state. Last year, state officials estimated that young women served by those family planning clinics accounted for about three-fourths of the overall decline in Colorado's teen birth rate.
An anonymous donor had previously funded the program, but Democrats in the Colorado Senate added $5 million to the state budget to keep the program going in the future. That effort died in a Republican-controlled state Senate committee late last week, putting the program in peril.
As the Denver Post reported, the IUD program in Colorado "faced resistance from fiscal hawks who consider the spending redundant and social conservatives who believe IUDs cause abortions, a point rejected by the medical community."
Colorado officials, meanwhile, have vowed to keep moving forward with the program regardless of the roadblock. Source
All you ever need is abstinence right?
right?
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On May 08 2015 06:38 oneofthem wrote:
upstate new york would be a shithole without the city's resources.
It already is. I don't believe we see all that much money from the city. If we did, our roads wouldn't be falling apart, our schools wouldn't be broke, and Buffalo wouldn't be one of the most crime-ridden cities in the country.
I don't even really care that much about government financial support, because I've never really seen it help. Areas rise or fall because of market forces, not because some nearby city subsidized them. Western NY is dirt poor because manufacturing packed up and moved overseas. It will continue to be dirt poor until it, or some equally-large source of income moves in. So if we're doomed to be poor either way, I at least want to be led by a government that actually shares my interests.
I'm also not totally sure there is a line where government can't get any more localized. You will reach true representation before you reach the limit of how localized government can get. Cultures are pretty big after all.
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On May 08 2015 09:01 Gorsameth wrote:
All you ever need is abstinence right?
right?
What becomes of our world when we can not even trust our teenagers to always do the responsible most counterinstinctual thing?
@Millitron
why would you think that?
cultures and people can be very varied even at close proximity. i guess you advocate some "if you don't like it here and are the minority leave"-attitude?
and more to the general point: why do you think larger than family sized political organisations ever evolved? people saw value in them. just because you do not see it, doesnt mean it is absent for everyone. i agree that historically grown political entities sometimes feel very ill fitted and slow to adapt, because they hardly ever change. so they could be improved upon by redistricting.
i am still not sure if you are categorically against involuntary wealth transfers or if you see that there might be a general good possible with structurally stronger regions helping out weaker ones?
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On May 08 2015 09:01 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 08:57 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Republican legislators in Colorado will not authorize funding for a program that gives free IUDs to low-income women — an effort that many believe was responsible for hugely driving down teen births.
Colorado has recently experienced a stunning decline in its teen birth rate. Between 2007 and 2012, federal data shows that births declined 40 percent — faster than any other state in the country.
State officials attributed part of this success to the Colorado Family Planning Initiative, which provided free IUDs to low-income women seen at 68 family planning clinics across the state. Last year, state officials estimated that young women served by those family planning clinics accounted for about three-fourths of the overall decline in Colorado's teen birth rate.
An anonymous donor had previously funded the program, but Democrats in the Colorado Senate added $5 million to the state budget to keep the program going in the future. That effort died in a Republican-controlled state Senate committee late last week, putting the program in peril.
As the Denver Post reported, the IUD program in Colorado "faced resistance from fiscal hawks who consider the spending redundant and social conservatives who believe IUDs cause abortions, a point rejected by the medical community."
Colorado officials, meanwhile, have vowed to keep moving forward with the program regardless of the roadblock. Source All you ever need is abstinence right? right?
To be fair, absitinence IS all you ever need. IUD's don't stop STD's, abstinence does. Abstinence is also free.
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Condoms are also pretty good at stopping STDs
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On May 08 2015 09:11 puerk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 09:01 Gorsameth wrote:
All you ever need is abstinence right?
right? What becomes of our world when we can not even trust our teenagers to always do the responsible most counterinstinctual thing? @Millitron why would you think that? cultures and people can be very varied even at close proximity. i guess you advocate some "if you don't like it here and are the minority leave"-attitude? and more to the general point: why do you think larger than family sized political organisations ever evolved? people saw value in them. just because you do not see it, doesnt mean it is absent for everyone. i agree that historically grown political entities sometimes feel very ill fitted and slow to adapt, because they hardly ever change. so they could be improved upon by redistricting. i am still not sure if you are categorically against involuntary wealth transfers or if you see that there might be a general good possible with structurally stronger regions helping out weaker ones?
Larger-than-family sized political organizations evolved out of fear, or greed. Either "Lets group up and rob all these dumb farmers." or "Lets group up and fight off these bandits." Neither of these are real problems anymore.
Also, the "if you don't like it here and are the minority, leave"-attitude is the exact one you're defending. You're arguing in favor of NYC ruling with an iron fist right now; you see that right?
I'm ok with taxation if it's to pay for really basic stuff that directly benefits everyone, and doesn't have a privately-run alternative. So police, fire dept, roads, things like that. Anything else, nope.
It's also not like NYC and Western NY would have to stop working together if they became separate states anyways. New York and New Jersey coordinate all the time. Hell, we even coordinate with Canada fairly regularly. We can work together when it's beneficial, we just shouldn't be tied together 24/7.
On May 08 2015 09:29 Shiragaku wrote:
Condoms are also pretty good at stopping STDs
Abstinence is even better.
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On May 08 2015 09:24 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 09:01 Gorsameth wrote:On May 08 2015 08:57 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Republican legislators in Colorado will not authorize funding for a program that gives free IUDs to low-income women — an effort that many believe was responsible for hugely driving down teen births.
Colorado has recently experienced a stunning decline in its teen birth rate. Between 2007 and 2012, federal data shows that births declined 40 percent — faster than any other state in the country.
State officials attributed part of this success to the Colorado Family Planning Initiative, which provided free IUDs to low-income women seen at 68 family planning clinics across the state. Last year, state officials estimated that young women served by those family planning clinics accounted for about three-fourths of the overall decline in Colorado's teen birth rate.
An anonymous donor had previously funded the program, but Democrats in the Colorado Senate added $5 million to the state budget to keep the program going in the future. That effort died in a Republican-controlled state Senate committee late last week, putting the program in peril.
As the Denver Post reported, the IUD program in Colorado "faced resistance from fiscal hawks who consider the spending redundant and social conservatives who believe IUDs cause abortions, a point rejected by the medical community."
Colorado officials, meanwhile, have vowed to keep moving forward with the program regardless of the roadblock. Source All you ever need is abstinence right? right? To be fair, absitinence IS all you ever need. IUD's don't stop STD's, abstinence does. Abstinence is also free.
Not breathing air is also a good technique to stop STD's.
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On May 08 2015 09:30 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 09:24 Millitron wrote:On May 08 2015 09:01 Gorsameth wrote:On May 08 2015 08:57 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Republican legislators in Colorado will not authorize funding for a program that gives free IUDs to low-income women — an effort that many believe was responsible for hugely driving down teen births.
Colorado has recently experienced a stunning decline in its teen birth rate. Between 2007 and 2012, federal data shows that births declined 40 percent — faster than any other state in the country.
State officials attributed part of this success to the Colorado Family Planning Initiative, which provided free IUDs to low-income women seen at 68 family planning clinics across the state. Last year, state officials estimated that young women served by those family planning clinics accounted for about three-fourths of the overall decline in Colorado's teen birth rate.
An anonymous donor had previously funded the program, but Democrats in the Colorado Senate added $5 million to the state budget to keep the program going in the future. That effort died in a Republican-controlled state Senate committee late last week, putting the program in peril.
As the Denver Post reported, the IUD program in Colorado "faced resistance from fiscal hawks who consider the spending redundant and social conservatives who believe IUDs cause abortions, a point rejected by the medical community."
Colorado officials, meanwhile, have vowed to keep moving forward with the program regardless of the roadblock. Source All you ever need is abstinence right? right? To be fair, absitinence IS all you ever need. IUD's don't stop STD's, abstinence does. Abstinence is also free. Not breathing air is also a good technique to stop STD's.
Sex is not essential. Breathing is.
I'm not some social conservative against birth control because it's the devil or something stupid like that. I'm not even against birth control. I'm against the constant attacks on personal responsibility. I really don't like the idea of handing out free anything. Because nothing is really free.
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EPT
