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On May 01 2015 04:56 Wolfstan wrote:
I've been black since i was about 20 in 2004
I do not think that is possible.
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On May 01 2015 04:53 Nyxisto wrote:
There's also a problem in the methodology of detecting crime. White collar crime is harder to detect, and people will more often get away with it. It's not necessarily that black people commit more crimes but they also get away with it less often because they're simply committing different kinds of crime, not necessarily more.
Also even when people do get caught committing white collar crime, it typically doesn't involve a car chase or SWAT teams serving a no-knock warrant. When someone gets arrested for fraud, there's rarely any confrontation involved. The kinds of criminals who commit white collar crime are typically not the ones who fight back when they're getting cuffed. Basically black criminals are more likely to be violent criminals.
This all stems from socioeconomics. Poor criminals have to resort to holding up convenience stores or other, more violent crimes. So since there are disproportionately more poor black people, there will be disproportionately more poor black criminals. And as we've already discussed, poor people are more likely to commit stupid crimes.
Basically, what I'm getting at is that socioeconomics mean black people commit more crimes that are easier to solve, meaning more police confrontations. And the kinds of people who commit violent crimes are also the same kinds of people who will fight the cops when they get caught. In short, as long as minorities are socioeconomically disadvantaged, there will be a disproportionate number of them in prison, or in the morgue due to police action.
Now, as I've said about a thousand times, I'm not excusing the bullshit that has been happening. I'm just pointing out that even once we get the whole police brutality thing sorted out, there will still be a disproportionate number of minorities running afoul of the law, and possibly ending up dead because of it.
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On May 01 2015 04:09 Anesthetic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 04:02 Plansix wrote:
Well the pro-black organization/figures are not preforming internal investigations or claiming to provide "evidence" that was found in the case. They also don't collect dues directly from the black communities paycheck.
And the answer is yes if they are lying or fabricating things. But there also are not "sides". There are many players in these and trying to boil it down to "sides" is oversimplify the entire event.
And yes, I am aware that some of the very leaders are trying to boil it down to sides. But those folks suck. While I understand this sentiment I have to point out that one of the biggest iconic chants from the protests "hands up don't shoot", was based on the single testimony of a friend of Mike Brown's and there is absolutely zero evidence to support this from any other witness so its pretty clear that this was made up. Like I said, if blacks were in power they would pretty much be doing the same thing. As someone that has actually lived around blacks for the vast majority of my life I can guarantee you that they harbor just as much racism as whites, but like I said they simply don't have the power to do anything and get away with it.
It's a good thing the Irish/Italians/Germans never rose to power, or the good English folk who came before would be screwed!
It's dumb to assume that power has to be an either/or thing and we can't work together, and it's morally bankrupt to imply that "they'll just turn around and oppress/abuse us" is a valid reason to condone violence and racism.
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"My experience with blacks" is an entirely inappropriate basis for making any sort of broad judgment. Look up availability heuristic and see why!
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Fixing poor law enforcement is easier to fix legislatively then poor socioeconomic circumstances. I actually take a dovish approach to dealing with crime then most Americans.
Law enforcement that is part of the community is paramount to prevent us vs.then police mentality. Again my run ins with law enforcement are almost universally positive so can't really appreciate what poor minorities have to deal with.
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On May 01 2015 05:39 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 04:09 Anesthetic wrote:On May 01 2015 04:02 Plansix wrote:
Well the pro-black organization/figures are not preforming internal investigations or claiming to provide "evidence" that was found in the case. They also don't collect dues directly from the black communities paycheck.
And the answer is yes if they are lying or fabricating things. But there also are not "sides". There are many players in these and trying to boil it down to "sides" is oversimplify the entire event.
And yes, I am aware that some of the very leaders are trying to boil it down to sides. But those folks suck. While I understand this sentiment I have to point out that one of the biggest iconic chants from the protests "hands up don't shoot", was based on the single testimony of a friend of Mike Brown's and there is absolutely zero evidence to support this from any other witness so its pretty clear that this was made up. Like I said, if blacks were in power they would pretty much be doing the same thing. As someone that has actually lived around blacks for the vast majority of my life I can guarantee you that they harbor just as much racism as whites, but like I said they simply don't have the power to do anything and get away with it. It's a good thing the Irish/Italians/Germans never rose to power, or the good English folk who came before would be screwed! It's dumb to assume that power has to be an either/or thing and we can't work together, and it's morally bankrupt to imply that "they'll just turn around and oppress/abuse us" is a valid reason to condone violence and racism.
I don't see that he was condoning anything. Just pointing out that the protestors have been just as dishonest as the police, at least in Ferguson.
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On May 01 2015 05:56 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 05:39 Seuss wrote:On May 01 2015 04:09 Anesthetic wrote:On May 01 2015 04:02 Plansix wrote:
Well the pro-black organization/figures are not preforming internal investigations or claiming to provide "evidence" that was found in the case. They also don't collect dues directly from the black communities paycheck.
And the answer is yes if they are lying or fabricating things. But there also are not "sides". There are many players in these and trying to boil it down to "sides" is oversimplify the entire event.
And yes, I am aware that some of the very leaders are trying to boil it down to sides. But those folks suck. While I understand this sentiment I have to point out that one of the biggest iconic chants from the protests "hands up don't shoot", was based on the single testimony of a friend of Mike Brown's and there is absolutely zero evidence to support this from any other witness so its pretty clear that this was made up. Like I said, if blacks were in power they would pretty much be doing the same thing. As someone that has actually lived around blacks for the vast majority of my life I can guarantee you that they harbor just as much racism as whites, but like I said they simply don't have the power to do anything and get away with it. It's a good thing the Irish/Italians/Germans never rose to power, or the good English folk who came before would be screwed! It's dumb to assume that power has to be an either/or thing and we can't work together, and it's morally bankrupt to imply that "they'll just turn around and oppress/abuse us" is a valid reason to condone violence and racism. I don't see that he was condoning anything. Just pointing out that the protestors have been just as dishonest as the police, at least in Ferguson.
arguments like
if blacks were in power they would pretty much be doing the same thing. As someone that has actually lived around blacks for the vast majority of my life I can guarantee you that they harbor just as much racism as whites
are commonly used to justifiy opression.
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On May 01 2015 06:01 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 05:56 Millitron wrote:On May 01 2015 05:39 Seuss wrote:On May 01 2015 04:09 Anesthetic wrote:On May 01 2015 04:02 Plansix wrote:
Well the pro-black organization/figures are not preforming internal investigations or claiming to provide "evidence" that was found in the case. They also don't collect dues directly from the black communities paycheck.
And the answer is yes if they are lying or fabricating things. But there also are not "sides". There are many players in these and trying to boil it down to "sides" is oversimplify the entire event.
And yes, I am aware that some of the very leaders are trying to boil it down to sides. But those folks suck. While I understand this sentiment I have to point out that one of the biggest iconic chants from the protests "hands up don't shoot", was based on the single testimony of a friend of Mike Brown's and there is absolutely zero evidence to support this from any other witness so its pretty clear that this was made up. Like I said, if blacks were in power they would pretty much be doing the same thing. As someone that has actually lived around blacks for the vast majority of my life I can guarantee you that they harbor just as much racism as whites, but like I said they simply don't have the power to do anything and get away with it. It's a good thing the Irish/Italians/Germans never rose to power, or the good English folk who came before would be screwed! It's dumb to assume that power has to be an either/or thing and we can't work together, and it's morally bankrupt to imply that "they'll just turn around and oppress/abuse us" is a valid reason to condone violence and racism. I don't see that he was condoning anything. Just pointing out that the protestors have been just as dishonest as the police, at least in Ferguson. arguments like Show nested quote +if blacks were in power they would pretty much be doing the same thing. As someone that has actually lived around blacks for the vast majority of my life I can guarantee you that they harbor just as much racism as whites are commonly used to justifiy opression.
Except I'm not using them to condone what the police is doing, can you guys stop putting words in my mouth?
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On May 01 2015 06:01 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 05:56 Millitron wrote:On May 01 2015 05:39 Seuss wrote:On May 01 2015 04:09 Anesthetic wrote:On May 01 2015 04:02 Plansix wrote:
Well the pro-black organization/figures are not preforming internal investigations or claiming to provide "evidence" that was found in the case. They also don't collect dues directly from the black communities paycheck.
And the answer is yes if they are lying or fabricating things. But there also are not "sides". There are many players in these and trying to boil it down to "sides" is oversimplify the entire event.
And yes, I am aware that some of the very leaders are trying to boil it down to sides. But those folks suck. While I understand this sentiment I have to point out that one of the biggest iconic chants from the protests "hands up don't shoot", was based on the single testimony of a friend of Mike Brown's and there is absolutely zero evidence to support this from any other witness so its pretty clear that this was made up. Like I said, if blacks were in power they would pretty much be doing the same thing. As someone that has actually lived around blacks for the vast majority of my life I can guarantee you that they harbor just as much racism as whites, but like I said they simply don't have the power to do anything and get away with it. It's a good thing the Irish/Italians/Germans never rose to power, or the good English folk who came before would be screwed! It's dumb to assume that power has to be an either/or thing and we can't work together, and it's morally bankrupt to imply that "they'll just turn around and oppress/abuse us" is a valid reason to condone violence and racism. I don't see that he was condoning anything. Just pointing out that the protestors have been just as dishonest as the police, at least in Ferguson. arguments like Show nested quote +if blacks were in power they would pretty much be doing the same thing. As someone that has actually lived around blacks for the vast majority of my life I can guarantee you that they harbor just as much racism as whites are commonly used to justifiy opression.
Note he didn't say:
if blacks were in power they would pretty much be doing the same thing. As someone that has actually lived around blacks for the vast majority of my life I can guarantee you that they harbor just as much racism as whites, so they deserve it.
Keep thinking everyone who says anything negative about any black person is a racist though, I'm sure you wouldn't catch more flies with honey.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On May 01 2015 05:44 Wolfstan wrote:
Fixing poor law enforcement is easier to fix legislatively then poor socioeconomic circumstances. I actually take a dovish approach to dealing with crime then most Americans.
Law enforcement that is part of the community is paramount to prevent us vs.then police mentality. Again my run ins with law enforcement are almost universally positive so can't really appreciate what poor minorities have to deal with.
i agree with the first sentence here, but it's also insufficiently sadly when it comes to revitalizing black inner city neighborhoods that have been in the dumps. outside of miraculous events, it requires a new deal like program of government investment.
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Once again with the "Well those poor, disenfranchised people that are being abused by shitty police are also dishonest. Everything, including the justice system is stacked against them. But the real problem is that they are not saints why being abused by the local police. I need to point this out over and over for reasons"
Seriously, how many ways are you going to pull the discussion to blaming black people?
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Sadly this thread is stuck in the nonsense of putting words in other people's mouths. It's very unproductive and jerkish to do that.
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On May 01 2015 06:05 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 06:01 Paljas wrote:On May 01 2015 05:56 Millitron wrote:On May 01 2015 05:39 Seuss wrote:On May 01 2015 04:09 Anesthetic wrote:On May 01 2015 04:02 Plansix wrote:
Well the pro-black organization/figures are not preforming internal investigations or claiming to provide "evidence" that was found in the case. They also don't collect dues directly from the black communities paycheck.
And the answer is yes if they are lying or fabricating things. But there also are not "sides". There are many players in these and trying to boil it down to "sides" is oversimplify the entire event.
And yes, I am aware that some of the very leaders are trying to boil it down to sides. But those folks suck. While I understand this sentiment I have to point out that one of the biggest iconic chants from the protests "hands up don't shoot", was based on the single testimony of a friend of Mike Brown's and there is absolutely zero evidence to support this from any other witness so its pretty clear that this was made up. Like I said, if blacks were in power they would pretty much be doing the same thing. As someone that has actually lived around blacks for the vast majority of my life I can guarantee you that they harbor just as much racism as whites, but like I said they simply don't have the power to do anything and get away with it. It's a good thing the Irish/Italians/Germans never rose to power, or the good English folk who came before would be screwed! It's dumb to assume that power has to be an either/or thing and we can't work together, and it's morally bankrupt to imply that "they'll just turn around and oppress/abuse us" is a valid reason to condone violence and racism. I don't see that he was condoning anything. Just pointing out that the protestors have been just as dishonest as the police, at least in Ferguson. arguments like if blacks were in power they would pretty much be doing the same thing. As someone that has actually lived around blacks for the vast majority of my life I can guarantee you that they harbor just as much racism as whites are commonly used to justifiy opression. Note he didn't say: Show nested quote +if blacks were in power they would pretty much be doing the same thing. As someone that has actually lived around blacks for the vast majority of my life I can guarantee you that they harbor just as much racism as whites, so they deserve it. Keep thinking everyone who says anything negative about any black person is a racist though, I'm sure you wouldn't catch more flies with honey.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics
If he didn't mean what I accused him of he didn't mean it, but the majority of the time someone argues "they'd just abuse us if they were in power" it's a justification for ongoing abuse. Making that argument is, at best, ignorant of its history and how steeped it is in racism.
Without the second paragraph he'd just have been someone I disagreed with.
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On May 01 2015 03:42 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 02:46 wei2coolman wrote:Would definitely suggest listening to this NPR article. Racism runs a lot of ways. All I got from this is that Travis Fonseca is an asshole. Can you really blame the shops for not hiring locals if they're the kinds of people who loot and steal? Can you really blame that shop for not letting him borrow a shirt? I mean what the fuck. What kind of moron expects to be able to borrow something from a store. How stupid do you have to be to think they might let you?
Didn't Paris Hilton or some other celebrity try that?
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On May 01 2015 04:59 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 04:56 Wolfstan wrote:
I've been black since i was about 20 in 2004 I do not think that is possible.
It is with hard work and understanding, so now i check that box when census time comes around and when racially sensitive topics come around.
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On May 01 2015 06:06 Plansix wrote:
Once again with the "Well those poor, disenfranchised people that are being abused by shitty police are also dishonest. Everything, including the justice system is stacked against them. But the real problem is that they are not saints why being abused by the local police. I need to point this out over and over for reasons"
Seriously, how many ways are you going to pull the discussion to blaming black people?
Nigerian people who come to the United States suffer from all the same conditions that blacks do (minus the culture), and I have to point out that Nigerians actually do quite well for themselves they have higher incomes, are much more educated, have more wealth etc despite facing the same racist conditions that blacks face.This is why I personally believe that while the odds are stacked against blacks, black culture is the single worst thing for blacks. Because once we take black culture out of the equation and compare them to another group that for all intents and purposes suffers from the same racism, we can see that theres something else besides racism that holds them back.
Now of course I don't blame blacks for black culture, it arose out of centuries of oppression and from slavery, and theres nothing they can do about it except try to put it behind them.
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On May 01 2015 06:05 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 06:01 Paljas wrote:On May 01 2015 05:56 Millitron wrote:On May 01 2015 05:39 Seuss wrote:On May 01 2015 04:09 Anesthetic wrote:On May 01 2015 04:02 Plansix wrote:
Well the pro-black organization/figures are not preforming internal investigations or claiming to provide "evidence" that was found in the case. They also don't collect dues directly from the black communities paycheck.
And the answer is yes if they are lying or fabricating things. But there also are not "sides". There are many players in these and trying to boil it down to "sides" is oversimplify the entire event.
And yes, I am aware that some of the very leaders are trying to boil it down to sides. But those folks suck. While I understand this sentiment I have to point out that one of the biggest iconic chants from the protests "hands up don't shoot", was based on the single testimony of a friend of Mike Brown's and there is absolutely zero evidence to support this from any other witness so its pretty clear that this was made up. Like I said, if blacks were in power they would pretty much be doing the same thing. As someone that has actually lived around blacks for the vast majority of my life I can guarantee you that they harbor just as much racism as whites, but like I said they simply don't have the power to do anything and get away with it. It's a good thing the Irish/Italians/Germans never rose to power, or the good English folk who came before would be screwed! It's dumb to assume that power has to be an either/or thing and we can't work together, and it's morally bankrupt to imply that "they'll just turn around and oppress/abuse us" is a valid reason to condone violence and racism. I don't see that he was condoning anything. Just pointing out that the protestors have been just as dishonest as the police, at least in Ferguson. arguments like if blacks were in power they would pretty much be doing the same thing. As someone that has actually lived around blacks for the vast majority of my life I can guarantee you that they harbor just as much racism as whites are commonly used to justifiy opression. Note he didn't say: Show nested quote +if blacks were in power they would pretty much be doing the same thing. As someone that has actually lived around blacks for the vast majority of my life I can guarantee you that they harbor just as much racism as whites, so they deserve it. Keep thinking everyone who says anything negative about any black person is a racist though, I'm sure you wouldn't catch more flies with honey.
i didnt say he was a racist
my point still stands
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On May 01 2015 06:28 Wolfstan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 04:59 Simberto wrote:On May 01 2015 04:56 Wolfstan wrote:
I've been black since i was about 20 in 2004 I do not think that is possible. It is with hard work and understanding, so now i check that box when census time comes around and when racially sensitive topics come around.
You shouldn't be proud of this, and if it's a joke, it's a pretty terrible one.
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On May 01 2015 04:59 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 04:56 Wolfstan wrote:
I've been black since i was about 20 in 2004 I do not think that is possible.
Let's keep this thread a safe space for both trans-gender and trans-racial people, please.
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On May 01 2015 06:40 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 06:28 Wolfstan wrote:On May 01 2015 04:59 Simberto wrote:On May 01 2015 04:56 Wolfstan wrote:
I've been black since i was about 20 in 2004 I do not think that is possible. It is with hard work and understanding, so now i check that box when census time comes around and when racially sensitive topics come around. You shouldn't be proud of this, and if it's a joke, it's a pretty terrible one.
Its different in Canada obviously, you can identify with multiple ethnicity and its not a big deal. For the record I self identify as Canadian, Caucasian, Black, Asian and Aboriginal. I said as well that I don't relate to the plight of poor minorities and I don’t parade my races like a flag except during census and involved racial conversations.
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