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On March 14 2015 08:13 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 07:33 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2015 07:02 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 14 2015 06:48 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2015 06:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 14 2015 05:39 hannahbelle wrote:On March 14 2015 05:28 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 14 2015 01:32 hannahbelle wrote:On March 14 2015 00:48 Jormundr wrote:On March 14 2015 00:41 hannahbelle wrote:
[quote]
Or more accurately, just tells you about publishing rates.
No, a collection of data measuring the length of time for each part of the research and publishing processes and an accompanying analysis of the differences or similarities between them would tell you about publishing rates. But hey, maybe I'm giving you too much credit. MIAMI (AP) — Talk show host Rodner Figueroa was fired from Univision after saying that Michelle Obama looks like someone from the cast of "Planet of the Apes."
Figueroa, who's known for his biting fashion commentary, made his remarks during a live segment of the show "El Gordo y la Flaca" in which the hosts were commenting on a viral video that shows a makeup artist transforming himself into different celebrities, including Michelle Obama.
"Well, watch out, you know that Michelle Obama looks like she's from the cast of 'Planet of the Apes,' the movie," Figueroa, 42, said with a giggle.
When hostess Lili Estefan countered with "What are you saying?" and host Raul de Molina said Obama was very attractive, Figueroa defended his remark, saying "but it is true."
In a statement, Univision called Figueroa's comments "completely reprehensible" and said they "in no way reflect the values or opinions of Univision."
Figueroa, who in 2014 won a Daytime Emmy Award, did not respond to requests for comment Thursday. He worked for Univision for 17 years and had been on "El Gordo y la Flaca" since 2000. SourceI demand an immediate investigation by the DoJ into the racism present at Univision. Is that supposed to be funny or something? I'm committed to rooting out racism wherever it is. Why aren't you? On March 14 2015 05:28 Sandvich wrote:On March 14 2015 04:55 hannahbelle wrote:On March 14 2015 04:00 Gorsameth wrote:On March 14 2015 03:50 hannahbelle wrote:
[quote]
Don't be naive. Under the current negotiations, Iran could get as close to one year away from a nuke. In nuclear development, that is pretty much equivalent to having one.
Except for the fact that the negotiation is ongoing and the former Mossad chief who said that the time is longer then a year. But hey lets believe Netanyahu having a PR speech in congress in a scenario that is oddly reminiscent of the lies told prior to the invasion of Iraq. What are you talking about? Do you even keep up on current events? Not the Mossad or Bibi I believe he was talking about this, where a former chief of mossad said that Iran was farther than the year the US estimated. Also included is a critique of the claim that Iran could reach the US with nuclear weapons. That's all well and good but clearly not what I was talking about. If you want the DOJ going into every business that has shown signs of racism, in an effort to root it out, I'll support you on that. Univision first, then Fox News, then we can keep going. I don't really think most conservatives would sign onto that, but I don't have a problem with taking groups that have shown racist tendencies and shining a spotlight on their organization to see how deep and pervasive the racism is. I don't think they keep as meticulous details of their racism as the Ferguson PD or that the DOJ would have the legal authority it had over police departments to investigate it, but I have nothing against rooting out racists no matter where they hide. pretty sure no one (not just conservatives) would sign on to that. what a waste of time and money. Says you? I'm sure the citizens of places like Ferguson would feel differently. They would probably want to start with things like corrupt police departments rather than Univision though. I would tend to agree with them on that. Money get's wasted on all sorts of crap, paying almost $100k to the corrupt chief to resign would be one small example. I'm sure we could scrape together the funds to investigate more (Congress seems to enjoy them?). I mean, systematic constitutional violations and corruption at the judicial level should be pretty easy to be bi-partisan about? I agree stuff like Univision wouldn't get much support for investigations. everyone loves justice until they have to open their pocketbooks and pay for it. the cost to investigate "every business that has shown signs of racism" is going to cost billions, if not trillions, of dollars, and is going to basically shut down the DOJ (unless they hire people specifically for this) to doing other enforcement actions, which is kind of their job. its unrealistic to even propose it. the smarter thing to do, which is already done, is let private enforcement actions handle the "issue." i have yet to meet a shy plaintiff's attorney when it comes to a juicy racial harassment/discrimination lawsuit. this is going to be an unpopular opinion here, but the DOJ investigation of ferguson was a waste of time and money. spending that many resources on such a small ass town was ridiculous. the time and money could have better been spent on more significant (both by size and impact) cities and counties. squeaky wheel gets the oil though. also an unpopular opinion, but who gives a rat's ass about ferguson. it was a nobody town before this, and after this DOJ thing blows over, it will be a nobody town again. edit: here are some statistics on how many racial complaints against businesses are made yearly just in California. thousands per year. http://www.dfeh.ca.gov/res/docs/Statisitcs/2015/DFEH Report to the Legislature (2).pdfedit2: people already filed lawsuits about the illegal practices re Ferguson. http://www.wsj.com/articles/lawsuit-alleges-ferguson-mo-legal-system-violates-constitutional-protections-by-jailing-poor-for-fines-1423502968 I forgot about how people in bad towns aren't valuable enough to have constitutional rights get respected. Or that when they are violated, the nothing that was getting done should have been enough. Disgusting.
lol, disgusting.
when they have other recourse, yes, they are not "valuable enough" to justify DoJ intervention. i didnt say nothing should get done, I said the DoJ should not intervene.
whats disgusting is that the DoJ did not investigate other issues because it was spending its resources on a town of 21,000 people.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i agree that racism should be rooted out everywhere, but the extent of government power used to do so adds another thing to consider here.
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There's government policy and there's effective and reasonable government policy; therein lies the consideration.
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On March 14 2015 08:40 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 08:28 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 14 2015 08:20 farvacola wrote:
The economics of justice are not agreed upon; that dAPHREAk considers a town like Ferguson the sort of place more likely to exhibit symptoms rather than the sickness itself is not a disgusting thing lol. Though he'd never make this argument lol, it seems pretty reasonable to consider how systemic changes that affect conditions in Ferguson through incidence rather than direct enforcement protocols would end up a better solution. In other words, a top-to-bottom approach in addressing current day racism is arguably as good or better than a bottom-to-top one; we can try to learn the lessons from Ferguson without being "Ferguson-narrow" in our attempts at mitigating the harms of racism. I appreciate the sentiment, but considering the reality, it means little. Before Ferguson and the justice department report, suggesting that racism was even a significant problem got one labeled a race-baiter or worse. Absent Ferguson, I sincerely doubt any such effort would of been much more than a masturbatory exercise. Ferguson's greatest gift will be its use as an example of what happens when the local police force and the community it is meant to protect and serve fail to interconnect in the fashion necessary for a harmonious society. That being said, there were and are many influential and meaningful forums in which discussing the problems of contemporary racism is not looked down on. For a small example, there are literally hundreds of law review articles on the topic of systemic legal and executive racism published every year, and this has been going on for decades. It can seem like no one is listening when Fox News gets rated the most trustworthy news channel and social media lights up with venom being spit in both directions, but I assure you that much of that is a result of the distortion in media representations of current issues and the very real gridlock that grips most of our nation's ideological politicking. I'm not sure if there is much solace in that lol, but I think that there is.
There isn't lol.
Ferguson isn't even the worst example.
FERGUSON, Mo. — The small city of Jennings, Mo., had a police department so troubled, and with so much tension between white officers and black residents, that the city council finally decided to disband it. Everyone in the Jennings police department was fired. New officers were brought in to create a credible department from scratch.
That was three years ago. One of the officers who worked in that department, and lost his job along with everyone else, was a young man named Darren Wilson.
Source
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let me put this another way.
if an enlisted man suffers prejudice from his superior, he goes to his superior's superior, he doesnt go to the general or the president as commander in chief. if the superior's superior fails to act, you go up the chain. you don't skip.
ferguson should be regulated first by st. louis county then by the state of missouri, including through the courts. only after that fails should the federal government get involved.
teh federal governement should be regulating states for the most part, not small little cities before even allowing the states to fix their own mess.
edit: holy shit GH, you just posted an example proving my exact point.
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On March 14 2015 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:
let me put this another way.
if an enlisted man suffers prejudice from his superior, he goes to his superior's superior, he doesnt go to the general or the president as commander in chief. if the superior's superior fails to act, you go up the chain. you don't skip.
ferguson should be regulated first by st. louis county then by the state of missouri, including through the courts. only after that fails should the federal government get involved.
teh federal governement should be regulating states for the most part, not small little cities before even allowing the states to fix their own mess.
edit: holy shit GH, you just posted an example proving my exact point.
So you believe that in all these years no one has complained about the Ferguson P.D to any higher authority?
When shit gets this bad and oversight badly then yes I think it is entirely correct for the federal government to stop in.
I'm sure the people of Ferguson will be happy to wait another few decades before someone responsible actually started to give a shit. That their constitutional rights are being violated on a daily basis is there own problem, they could just move somewhere else after all.
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On March 14 2015 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:
let me put this another way.
if an enlisted man suffers prejudice from his superior, he goes to his superior's superior, he doesnt go to the general or the president as commander in chief. if the superior's superior fails to act, you go up the chain. you don't skip.
ferguson should be regulated first by st. louis county then by the state of missouri, including through the courts. only after that fails should the federal government get involved.
teh federal governement should be regulating states for the most part, not small little cities before even allowing the states to fix their own mess.
edit: holy shit GH, you just posted an example proving my exact point.
Yeah you think it getting that bad is the system "working" I think it isn't. When the problem exists all the way up to the top (Obama isn't free from internalized racism), you have to attack it at every level. The fact that Darren Wilson was part of a department so racist/corrupt it had to be disbanded, then got a job at another department so racist/corrupt it got the DOJ involved and the chief had to step down, shows me the system is failing not working.
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On March 14 2015 09:01 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:
let me put this another way.
if an enlisted man suffers prejudice from his superior, he goes to his superior's superior, he doesnt go to the general or the president as commander in chief. if the superior's superior fails to act, you go up the chain. you don't skip.
ferguson should be regulated first by st. louis county then by the state of missouri, including through the courts. only after that fails should the federal government get involved.
teh federal governement should be regulating states for the most part, not small little cities before even allowing the states to fix their own mess.
edit: holy shit GH, you just posted an example proving my exact point. So you believe that in all these years no one has complained about the Ferguson P.D to any higher authority? When shit gets this bad and oversight badly then yes I think it is entirely correct for the federal government to stop in. I'm sure the people of Ferguson will be happy to wait another few decades before someone responsible actually started to give a shit. That their constitutional rights are being violated on a daily basis is there own problem, they could just move somewhere else after all.
i have not seen a report to a higher authority. all i have seen is a fast track to the DoJ.
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On March 14 2015 09:05 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 09:01 Gorsameth wrote:On March 14 2015 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:
let me put this another way.
if an enlisted man suffers prejudice from his superior, he goes to his superior's superior, he doesnt go to the general or the president as commander in chief. if the superior's superior fails to act, you go up the chain. you don't skip.
ferguson should be regulated first by st. louis county then by the state of missouri, including through the courts. only after that fails should the federal government get involved.
teh federal governement should be regulating states for the most part, not small little cities before even allowing the states to fix their own mess.
edit: holy shit GH, you just posted an example proving my exact point. So you believe that in all these years no one has complained about the Ferguson P.D to any higher authority? When shit gets this bad and oversight badly then yes I think it is entirely correct for the federal government to stop in. I'm sure the people of Ferguson will be happy to wait another few decades before someone responsible actually started to give a shit. That their constitutional rights are being violated on a daily basis is there own problem, they could just move somewhere else after all. i have not seen a report to a higher authority. all i have seen is a fast track to the DoJ.
This is totally ridiculous. You mean the racist, corrupt, lying, police chief, didn't report it up the chain.... Shocker... Get real with this nonsense.
How can this not be obvious as shit?
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After doing a bit of research, it would seem that the state of Missouri's apparatus for dealing with complaints of institutionalized racism, particularly those directed at government authorities, is severely lacking in a number of ways. The designated committee appears slow to react, the process for getting complaints heard seems unnecessarily complicated, and the statute itself looks poorly written and poorly understood by the legislators themselves. That's where I'd want the Feds to focus their attention.
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On March 14 2015 09:05 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 09:01 Gorsameth wrote:On March 14 2015 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:
let me put this another way.
if an enlisted man suffers prejudice from his superior, he goes to his superior's superior, he doesnt go to the general or the president as commander in chief. if the superior's superior fails to act, you go up the chain. you don't skip.
ferguson should be regulated first by st. louis county then by the state of missouri, including through the courts. only after that fails should the federal government get involved.
teh federal governement should be regulating states for the most part, not small little cities before even allowing the states to fix their own mess.
edit: holy shit GH, you just posted an example proving my exact point. So you believe that in all these years no one has complained about the Ferguson P.D to any higher authority? When shit gets this bad and oversight badly then yes I think it is entirely correct for the federal government to stop in. I'm sure the people of Ferguson will be happy to wait another few decades before someone responsible actually started to give a shit. That their constitutional rights are being violated on a daily basis is there own problem, they could just move somewhere else after all. i have not seen a report to a higher authority. all i have seen is a fast track to the DoJ.
After this became a media issue your (probably) right.
I'm talking about the many years before that.
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On March 14 2015 09:06 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 09:05 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2015 09:01 Gorsameth wrote:On March 14 2015 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:
let me put this another way.
if an enlisted man suffers prejudice from his superior, he goes to his superior's superior, he doesnt go to the general or the president as commander in chief. if the superior's superior fails to act, you go up the chain. you don't skip.
ferguson should be regulated first by st. louis county then by the state of missouri, including through the courts. only after that fails should the federal government get involved.
teh federal governement should be regulating states for the most part, not small little cities before even allowing the states to fix their own mess.
edit: holy shit GH, you just posted an example proving my exact point. So you believe that in all these years no one has complained about the Ferguson P.D to any higher authority? When shit gets this bad and oversight badly then yes I think it is entirely correct for the federal government to stop in. I'm sure the people of Ferguson will be happy to wait another few decades before someone responsible actually started to give a shit. That their constitutional rights are being violated on a daily basis is there own problem, they could just move somewhere else after all. i have not seen a report to a higher authority. all i have seen is a fast track to the DoJ. This is totally ridiculous. You mean the racist, corrupt, lying, police chief, didn't report it up the chain.... Shocker... Get real with this nonsense. How can this not be obvious as shit?
the chief doesnt report it up the chain, the enlisted man does. the fuck.
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On March 14 2015 09:07 farvacola wrote:
After doing a bit of research, it would seem that the state of Missouri's apparatus for dealing with complaints of institutionalized racism, particularly those directed at government authorities, is severely lacking in a number of ways. The designated committee appears slow to react, the process for getting complaints seems unnecessarily complicated, and the statute itself looks poorly written and poorly understood by the legislators themselves. That's where I'd want the Feds to focus their attention.
So you want the Feds to fix this problem, which I agree should be fixed in relatively short order. And then wait for the entire process in Ferguson to restart and reach said apparatus again?
No, they should not wait for that imo.
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On March 14 2015 09:08 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 09:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 14 2015 09:05 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2015 09:01 Gorsameth wrote:On March 14 2015 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:
let me put this another way.
if an enlisted man suffers prejudice from his superior, he goes to his superior's superior, he doesnt go to the general or the president as commander in chief. if the superior's superior fails to act, you go up the chain. you don't skip.
ferguson should be regulated first by st. louis county then by the state of missouri, including through the courts. only after that fails should the federal government get involved.
teh federal governement should be regulating states for the most part, not small little cities before even allowing the states to fix their own mess.
edit: holy shit GH, you just posted an example proving my exact point. So you believe that in all these years no one has complained about the Ferguson P.D to any higher authority? When shit gets this bad and oversight badly then yes I think it is entirely correct for the federal government to stop in. I'm sure the people of Ferguson will be happy to wait another few decades before someone responsible actually started to give a shit. That their constitutional rights are being violated on a daily basis is there own problem, they could just move somewhere else after all. i have not seen a report to a higher authority. all i have seen is a fast track to the DoJ. This is totally ridiculous. You mean the racist, corrupt, lying, police chief, didn't report it up the chain.... Shocker... Get real with this nonsense. How can this not be obvious as shit? the chief doesnt report it up the chain, the enlisted man does. the fuck.
This is mind boggling. You think because you haven't seen the reports of people reporting the abuse that they didn't happen or that they didn't just stop when they got to someone corrupt? I don't believe you don't see how that directly contributes to perpetuating the problem.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
for that army analogy to work the states level officials should be appointed and supervised by the federal government. the more accurate analogy would be a bunch of local warlords
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On March 14 2015 09:11 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 09:08 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2015 09:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 14 2015 09:05 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2015 09:01 Gorsameth wrote:On March 14 2015 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:
let me put this another way.
if an enlisted man suffers prejudice from his superior, he goes to his superior's superior, he doesnt go to the general or the president as commander in chief. if the superior's superior fails to act, you go up the chain. you don't skip.
ferguson should be regulated first by st. louis county then by the state of missouri, including through the courts. only after that fails should the federal government get involved.
teh federal governement should be regulating states for the most part, not small little cities before even allowing the states to fix their own mess.
edit: holy shit GH, you just posted an example proving my exact point. So you believe that in all these years no one has complained about the Ferguson P.D to any higher authority? When shit gets this bad and oversight badly then yes I think it is entirely correct for the federal government to stop in. I'm sure the people of Ferguson will be happy to wait another few decades before someone responsible actually started to give a shit. That their constitutional rights are being violated on a daily basis is there own problem, they could just move somewhere else after all. i have not seen a report to a higher authority. all i have seen is a fast track to the DoJ. This is totally ridiculous. You mean the racist, corrupt, lying, police chief, didn't report it up the chain.... Shocker... Get real with this nonsense. How can this not be obvious as shit? the chief doesnt report it up the chain, the enlisted man does. the fuck. This is mind boggling. You think because you haven't seen the reports of people reporting the abuse that they didn't happen or that they didn't just stop when they got to someone corrupt? I don't believe you don't see how that directly contributes to perpetuating the problem.
i dont think that.
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Thoughts about this?
U.S territories dont have full voting rights
"More than four million people live in U.S. territories, more than 98 percent of them are racial or ethnic minorities, and the more you look into the history of why their voting rights are restricted, the harder it is to justify," Oliver said.
Residents of America's island territories can't vote because the Supreme Court found in a series of early 20th century decisions that they belonged to the United States but were "not a part" of the United States. The decisions also found the territories were inhabited by "alien races" who might not be able to understand Anglo-Saxon laws, so the U.S. Constitution didn't have to apply. The lead decision in one of the rulings was written by the justice who wrote the "separate but equal" decision in Plessy v. Ferguson, Henry Billings Brown, and was intended to be temporary.
I am afraid I dont know enough about the status of the terrotories to understand what exactly is going on there, but it seems kinda strange to me
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On March 14 2015 09:12 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 09:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 14 2015 09:08 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2015 09:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 14 2015 09:05 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2015 09:01 Gorsameth wrote:On March 14 2015 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:
let me put this another way.
if an enlisted man suffers prejudice from his superior, he goes to his superior's superior, he doesnt go to the general or the president as commander in chief. if the superior's superior fails to act, you go up the chain. you don't skip.
ferguson should be regulated first by st. louis county then by the state of missouri, including through the courts. only after that fails should the federal government get involved.
teh federal governement should be regulating states for the most part, not small little cities before even allowing the states to fix their own mess.
edit: holy shit GH, you just posted an example proving my exact point. So you believe that in all these years no one has complained about the Ferguson P.D to any higher authority? When shit gets this bad and oversight badly then yes I think it is entirely correct for the federal government to stop in. I'm sure the people of Ferguson will be happy to wait another few decades before someone responsible actually started to give a shit. That their constitutional rights are being violated on a daily basis is there own problem, they could just move somewhere else after all. i have not seen a report to a higher authority. all i have seen is a fast track to the DoJ. This is totally ridiculous. You mean the racist, corrupt, lying, police chief, didn't report it up the chain.... Shocker... Get real with this nonsense. How can this not be obvious as shit? the chief doesnt report it up the chain, the enlisted man does. the fuck. This is mind boggling. You think because you haven't seen the reports of people reporting the abuse that they didn't happen or that they didn't just stop when they got to someone corrupt? I don't believe you don't see how that directly contributes to perpetuating the problem. i dont think that.
Well let me ask it this way....
i have not seen a report to a higher authority. all i have seen is a fast track to the DoJ.
What does that have to do with anything? What you have seen doesn't mean shit.
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On March 14 2015 09:08 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 09:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 14 2015 09:05 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2015 09:01 Gorsameth wrote:On March 14 2015 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:
let me put this another way.
if an enlisted man suffers prejudice from his superior, he goes to his superior's superior, he doesnt go to the general or the president as commander in chief. if the superior's superior fails to act, you go up the chain. you don't skip.
ferguson should be regulated first by st. louis county then by the state of missouri, including through the courts. only after that fails should the federal government get involved.
teh federal governement should be regulating states for the most part, not small little cities before even allowing the states to fix their own mess.
edit: holy shit GH, you just posted an example proving my exact point. So you believe that in all these years no one has complained about the Ferguson P.D to any higher authority? When shit gets this bad and oversight badly then yes I think it is entirely correct for the federal government to stop in. I'm sure the people of Ferguson will be happy to wait another few decades before someone responsible actually started to give a shit. That their constitutional rights are being violated on a daily basis is there own problem, they could just move somewhere else after all. i have not seen a report to a higher authority. all i have seen is a fast track to the DoJ. This is totally ridiculous. You mean the racist, corrupt, lying, police chief, didn't report it up the chain.... Shocker... Get real with this nonsense. How can this not be obvious as shit? the chief doesnt report it up the chain, the enlisted man does. the fuck.
The cop reports racism to his racist chief, The chief ignores it. The cop reports racism to the chiefs superior who is also racist. The superior alerts the chief, the cop gets fired.
The next cop doesn't bother. He likes to have a job.
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On March 14 2015 09:10 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 09:07 farvacola wrote:
After doing a bit of research, it would seem that the state of Missouri's apparatus for dealing with complaints of institutionalized racism, particularly those directed at government authorities, is severely lacking in a number of ways. The designated committee appears slow to react, the process for getting complaints seems unnecessarily complicated, and the statute itself looks poorly written and poorly understood by the legislators themselves. That's where I'd want the Feds to focus their attention. So you want the Feds to fix this problem, which I agree should be fixed in relatively short order. And then wait for the entire process in Ferguson to restart and reach said apparatus again? No, they should not wait for that imo.
Part of a federal solution could include a process through which those who had been harmed by the state of Missouri's unconstitutionally insufficient protection of their 14th Amendment rights are provided with a legal cause of action and an according set of remedies.
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EPT
