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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On November 26 2014 04:44 Ym1r wrote: I'm being told by one of my friends that Michael Brown raised his hands and surrendered when Wilson told him to stop, apparently this was one of the testimonies. Was it a lie? read the fucking transcripts, witness interviews, and forensic analysis. how hard is that? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 26 2014 04:47 wei2coolman wrote: read the fucking transcripts, witness interviews, and forensic analysis. how hard is that? Whoa there, calm down, he was asking an honest question and trying to get the truth of the matter. No need to freak out at the guy. We should always support people asking real questions, rather than just trying to further their own narrative. | ||
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Ym1r
United States1164 Posts
On November 26 2014 04:47 wei2coolman wrote: read the fucking transcripts, witness interviews, and forensic analysis. how hard is that? Uh, I'd rather not be that invested, it's just that my friend is spewing some inaccuracies to support his take on the drama and I want him to fix it. His point is extremely racially motivated because hes black too, so I just want to clear somethings up so people don't get the wrong idea. Sorry... I guess? I would much prefer get a condensed version from people who have read it then reading it myself. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
On November 26 2014 04:47 Millitron wrote: This quote might fit except that Al Sharpton and friends jump to the "Black guy did nothing wrong, white guy is just a bigoted, power-hungry monster" conclusion immediately every single time one of these cases make national news. What Al Sharpton does or doesn't do has very little to do with the presence of real demographic problems in the United States. And to consistently point to Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, as a white man, whenever something like this happens, particularly when their support among black folk has been waning for years, is tantamount to denial. We get it, you don't like the NAACP, but it isn't the fault of contemporary african-americans that the organization got its name. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 26 2014 04:51 Ym1r wrote: Uh, I'd rather not be that invested, it's just that my friend is spewing some inaccuracies to support his take on the drama and I want him to fix it. His point is extremely racially motivated because hes black too, so I just want to clear somethings up so people don't get the wrong idea. Sorry... I guess? I would much prefer get a condensed version from people who have read it then reading it myself. You can review the last like 10-15 pages of the thread and we debate it pretty heavily. You should tell him he shouldn't believe anything he reads on the news and just read the transcripts. There is a ton of misinformation out there on what happened. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On November 26 2014 04:51 Ym1r wrote: Uh, I'd rather not be that invested, it's just that my friend is spewing some inaccuracies to support his take on the drama and I want him to fix it. His point is extremely racially motivated because hes black too, so I just want to clear somethings up so people don't get the wrong idea. Sorry... I guess? I would much prefer get a condensed version from people who have read it then reading it myself. Pretty much the story the grand jury agreed on was that brown charged at wilson. wilson fires first volley, brown pauses. firing stops. brown starts the charge again. wilson fires second volley. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24361 Posts
On November 26 2014 04:36 wei2coolman wrote: If you're too lazy to read, that's your own fault. I posted the link to the transcripts just a few post above. I read the part discussing the shooting, I didn't see it unless it is somewhere else, it isn't there. Are you referring to what he said to another officer? | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On November 26 2014 04:41 farvacola wrote: The indictment would never have held up. That being said, I still think that this MLK quote is quite apropos. anyone know the racial make up of the grand jury? usually its private, but i was wondering if anything leaked. riots have become too mainstream, its hard to take them seriously anymore. people should take a note from the hong kong protests. those are the people the middle class will look to and change their minds, not rioters. its the middle class you need to convince, not the rich, not the poor. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 26 2014 04:56 dAPhREAk wrote: anyone know the racial make up of the grand jury? usually its private, but i was wondering if anything leaked. riots have become too mainstream, its hard to take them seriously anymore. people should take a note from the hong kong protests. those are the people the middle class will look to and change their minds, not rioters. its the middle class you need to convince, not the rich, not the poor. 9 white, 3 black. The rest is not available to the public as far as I know. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On November 26 2014 04:56 dAPhREAk wrote: anyone know the racial make up of the grand jury? usually its private, but i was wondering if anything leaked. riots have become too mainstream, its hard to take them seriously anymore. people should take a note from the hong kong protests. those are the people the middle class will look to and change their minds, not rioters. its the middle class you need to convince, not the rich, not the poor. 3 out of the 12 grand jurors were black. mentioned this earlier, 2010 census had it 29.3% of Ferguson's population was black. Somewhat close reflection of the community racially. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24361 Posts
On November 26 2014 04:56 dAPhREAk wrote: anyone know the racial make up of the grand jury? usually its private, but i was wondering if anything leaked. riots have become too mainstream, its hard to take them seriously anymore. people should take a note from the hong kong protests. those are the people the middle class will look to and change their minds, not rioters. its the middle class you need to convince, not the rich, not the poor. 9 white 3 black takes 9 for a decision. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On November 26 2014 04:45 RCMDVA wrote: Not supported by any evidence presented to the grand jury. This is a surprinsgly common answer in this thread when anyone emits the slightest ounce of doubt. What evidence do you want of a guy raising his hands vs a guy not raising his hands? As already said, it's she-said, he-said and based on testimonies. You can't find physical evidence of that... Oh well, maybe you can, but apparently forensics weren't competent enough to bring a charged up camera to the scene. Good thing guns are better charged than camera batteries. | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On November 26 2014 04:44 Ym1r wrote: I'm being told by one of my friends that Michael Brown raised his hands and surrendered when Wilson told him to stop, apparently this was one of the testimonies. Was it a lie? Lie is hard to say, but the witnesses that were negative toward Wilson's story tended to either not hold up under scrutiny or were contradicted by physical evidence. For example, some people claimed early on that Brown was running away and was shot in the back. Well, the autopsies showed that he was hit in his front, so that testimony is pretty garbage now. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24361 Posts
On November 26 2014 04:56 dAPhREAk wrote: anyone know the racial make up of the grand jury? usually its private, but i was wondering if anything leaked. riots have become too mainstream, its hard to take them seriously anymore. people should take a note from the hong kong protests. those are the people the middle class will look to and change their minds, not rioters. its the middle class you need to convince, not the rich, not the poor. The vast majority of protesters were peaceful especially if you count all the other protests across the country. Watching live streams from the street it was clear that many people tried to stop/report/discourage the rioting, several cars from out of state were seen at multiple locations of looting and fires. To paint the entirety of the protests with the same brush as the rioters is classic misdirection/pettifogging. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
The Senate Democrats' top message man is urging the party leftward in the wake of crushing midterm election losses, saying working Americans want a robust government that will promote education access, labor bargaining rights, progressive taxes and more. At a Washington news conference, New York Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer said his party erred five years ago by putting health care reform ahead of economic priorities. The vast majority of Americans were relatively happy with their employer-provided health insurance in 2009, he said, and the health care overhaul's message was aimed at about 5 percent of the electorate: those who lacked insurance and who voted. "To aim a huge change in mandate at such a small percentage of the electorate made no political sense," Schumer said. He said he expressed such concerns at the time. His office later said he "expressed those concerns privately to fellow Democrats." Schumer's remarks came a few weeks after Republicans won control of the Senate and boosted their House majority in the midterm elections. He said the way back to influence on Capitol Hill is to appeal to voters who support "an active and forceful government" to help them cope with globalization, technology and other forces keeping middle incomes stagnant. Schumer said Democrats made it easier for Republicans to paint government as bloated and inept with "the rollout of the Obamacare exchanges, the mishandling of the surge in border crossers, ineptitude at the VA (Veterans' Administration) and the government's initial handling of the Ebola threat." Schumer is one of the Senate's most senior and ambitious Democrats. He oversaw the party's campaign efforts in two highly successful elections, 2006 and 2008, and he now chairs the Democratic Policy and Communications Committee. Some see him as a potential successor to Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada. Schumer to Dems: Make Government Help Workers | ||
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
I will thus offer this bit of impromptu poetry: nothing says no justice, no peace like free beer and flat screen TVs | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On November 26 2014 04:54 Plansix wrote: You can review the last like 10-15 pages of the thread and we debate it pretty heavily. You should tell him he shouldn't believe anything he reads on the news and just read the transcripts. There is a ton of misinformation out there on what happened. Haha yeah, if I'll draw one thing from this, it's to not trust media so much. Every single thing you read on the net is all about the innocent black kid executed mercilessly by the white cop. When you read the transcripts it's way wayyyyyy less clear-cut. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 26 2014 05:00 ZenithM wrote: This is a surprinsgly common answer in this thread when anyone emits the slightest ounce of doubt. What evidence do you want of a guy raising his hands vs a guy not raising his hands? As already said, it's she-said, he-said and based on testimonies. You can't find physical evidence of that... Oh well, maybe you can, but apparently forensics weren't competent enough to bring a charged up camera to the scene. Good thing guns are better charged than camera batteries. I believe the main problem was that the testimonies conflicted with each other and the physical evidence. And once one part of your testimony is suspect, the rest sort of falls under suspicion as well. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On November 26 2014 04:54 GreenHorizons wrote: I read the part discussing the shooting, I didn't see it unless it is somewhere else, it isn't there. Are you referring to what he said to another officer? the transcript of interview of wilson, he said 20ft + 10ft he had backpedaled during incident, other witness testimonies put the distance between 30-45 ft. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On November 26 2014 05:02 GreenHorizons wrote: The vast majority of protesters were peaceful especially if you count all the other protests across the country. Watching live streams from the street it was clear that many people tried to stop/report/discourage the rioting, several cars from out of state were seen at multiple locations of looting and fires. To paint the entirety of the protests with the same brush as the rioters is classic misdirection/pettifogging. too bad livestreams were too busy getting robbed to report the "peaceful" protest. | ||
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