EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 10059
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
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Introvert
United States4748 Posts
On March 14 2018 12:19 GreenHorizons wrote: I wouldn't read too much into turn out in these special elections. What's often not emphasized in the reporting on these races is why they are special elections and not incumbent elections. I think 3 out of the last 4 had the previous Republican (the one being replaced) either retire or kill themselves out of shame and public embarrassment. Hardly the type of thing that motivates Republicans to come out for a special election. This one has it's own flare making it especially inconsequential in comparison to the attention it will get if the Dem wins being that their district won't exist next election. That's one reason I'm curious. But in 2010 these elections were harbingers of the wave. It's just such an interesting situation here. Also this Democrat is running more towards the center, etc. But part of this is the narrative. If you say it's going to go badly and can't use that to motivate voters, you instead exacerbate the problem. Self fulfilling prophecy and all that. This happened in the GOP primary. Everyone kept saying "it's over" which helped make it actually be over. Republicans need a reason to vote, or a reason for Democrat to stay home. We shall see. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15686 Posts
On March 14 2018 13:03 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote: looks like Lamb by 580 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/13/us/elections/results-pennsylvania-house-special-election.html Does this mean a grueling review process? | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
Or maybe not, I can never figure out with them. It is worthwhile to note that with House Republicans retiring at a record pace, we're not going to see the incumbent advantage in quite a few competitive districts. They're unlikely to swing nearly as much as the special elections have (like +10/15 greater than the generic ballot), but at this point the 7-8 point lead on the generic may be a bit better than a 7-8 point lead would have been in 2016 from retirings alone. And "a little better" than a 7-8 point lead is a big deal when it comes to House chances for Dems. I'm pretty sure a 10 point lead on the generic ballot virtually guarantees a majority Dem house, though not by as much as you might expect. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On March 14 2018 13:32 Doodsmack wrote: In other news trump visited douchehenge today. Doesn’t look like any of them are see through though. https://twitter.com/skynews/status/973699340228231169 I love this quote here. “My new national strategy for space recognizes that space is a warfighting domain, just like the land, air and sea,” Trump said. “We may even have a space force — develop another one, space force. We have the Air Force, we’ll have the space force.” Surefire way to nuclear winter. Not that i'd expect him (or his zealots) to understand that this would lead inevitably to war. Not a small proxy war in the middle east, but flatout full fledged war. He also said "very soon we're going to Mars", adding "you wouldn't even be thinking about it" if Hillary Clinton had won the 2016 presidential election. This one's great too. NASA can't even go to their own space station, let alone mars. The only institution possibly going to mars in the near future is Space X, and trump has/had zero impact on that. Even if Herbert Camacho would've won the election, Space X would've gone to mars. NASA is at least a decade (more likely, two) away from shooting someone up there. edit: manned, of course. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15686 Posts
On March 14 2018 12:11 Introvert wrote: I am very curious to see how these special elections translate to general elections. The generic ballot is still within reason for Republicans but very obviously Democrats want to vote more than Republicans. Combine that with what should be otherwise good conditions (good economy, no wars) we'll have a clash of unpopular president vs. good economy. I hope these special elections are the odd sign out. The GOP has the money, but can they actually hold out? The problem isn't the strength of the economy. The problem is the *nature* of the economy and how people view winners vs losers right now. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Think this is just Trump endorsing it. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On March 14 2018 10:50 GreenHorizons wrote: I'm not dodging, I'm pointing out that you guys tend to just dismiss anything that doesn't fit your narrative like the several things Trump has done and is still doing that aren't in Russia's interest. Nothing you've said can't be explained by Trump and co. selfishly and stupidly serving themselves, and in no way requires some mastermind in the Kremlin. In my opinion, remarkable incompetence and brazen greed does a much better job of explaining it than thinking Trump is a remote controlled Russian road runner and Mueller/Democrats are the Coyote. What do you think is going to happen when "Mueller shows his hand"? It's definitely a conspiracy theory, whether it's bullshit or not is something I'm presuming will be determined for you by whatever Trump is or isn't convicted of. Unless the courts are going to be doing the bidding of the Russians by then too of course. I've never been on the Trump collusion train myself. I also don't actually think 'remarkable incompetence' is the explanation here (though he does show remarkable incompetence at times). Trump simply likes Russia and the way Putin does things, and I'm pretty sure he would genuinely like for US-American relations to improve. Those things aren't going to improve if he toughens sanctions and says nasty things about Putin on a regular basis. Or at least, he would assume so because he is himself very thin-skinned. I'm pretty sure Putin's skin is as thick as rhinocerous hide and he'd happily forgive (though not forget) if it were politically practical to do so. A lot of the people around Trump are dodgy as all hell though, and Mueller is probably going to reveal some interesting things about what they were getting up to. I think people should temper their expectations re: Trump, however. As for the whole argument Putin raised about us (because I know my country's involved, too) interfering in Russian affairs, I think dismissing it is a little shortsighted. Unless you genuinely want a) a second cold war or b) a potential third world war, sooner or later someone has to sit down and properly reconsider US/UK-Russian relations. There's a reason that segment got cut, and it's not because it was all lies. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23221 Posts
On March 14 2018 18:42 iamthedave wrote: I've never been on the Trump collusion train myself. I also don't actually think 'remarkable incompetence' is the explanation here (though he does show remarkable incompetence at times). Trump simply likes Russia and the way Putin does things, and I'm pretty sure he would genuinely like for US-American relations to improve. Those things aren't going to improve if he toughens sanctions and says nasty things about Putin on a regular basis. Or at least, he would assume so because he is himself very thin-skinned. I'm pretty sure Putin's skin is as thick as rhinocerous hide and he'd happily forgive (though not forget) if it were politically practical to do so. A lot of the people around Trump are dodgy as all hell though, and Mueller is probably going to reveal some interesting things about what they were getting up to. I think people should temper their expectations re: Trump, however. As for the whole argument Putin raised about us (because I know my country's involved, too) interfering in Russian affairs, I think dismissing it is a little shortsighted. Unless you genuinely want a) a second cold war or b) a potential third world war, sooner or later someone has to sit down and properly reconsider US/UK-Russian relations. There's a reason that segment got cut, and it's not because it was all lies. I think it's also disingenuous to pretend the US wouldn't be a strong ally to Russia (even if Putin openly declared himself dictator for life), if only Russia promoted US economic interests, even if that meant destroying democratic governments. The idea that the US interferes out of a duty to spreading freedom and democracy is something only children should be able to be convinced of. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ Rational people find the prospect of putting the CIA in charge of the State department and a known black site torture supervisor in charge of the CIA as terrifying, Democratic leadership, thinks it might be perfectly fine if they feed them a healthy helping of bullshit first. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12172 Posts
He wasn't really in the running for SoS, but there's this big contract between Exxon and Russia, someone like Romney is never going to be an ally on that, so he goes in. The contract fails, five seconds later he's gone. I would say there's a good chance that there's something there, I don't know exactly in what order the pieces go. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On March 14 2018 18:47 GreenHorizons wrote: I think it's also disingenuous to pretend the US wouldn't be a strong ally to Russia (even if Putin openly declared himself dictator for life), if only Russia promoted US economic interests, even if that meant destroying democratic governments. The idea that the US interferes out of a duty to spreading freedom and democracy is something only children should be able to be convinced of. Agreed. The US has thrown in its lot with a ton of awful regimes for that exact reason. I was in my... mid-teens I think, when the UK papers were full of stories about how the HEROIC TALIBAN WOULD HELP US LIBERATE AFGHANISTAN. I think we can all agree that didn't quite work out. And it's not as if we didn't know what they were going in. We just didn't care. And need we even mention the Saudis? Aren't there confirmed links between the Saudis and multiple anti-western Islamic terror organisations? or at least there were. I seem to remember some reporting about them severing ties. Still, we didn't do shit about it when we knew. Oh, and lets not forget how that whole 'transpose Democracy to a country completely psychologically and structurally unprepared for it because this is a good idea that can't possibly go wrong' worked out in Iraq. I'll say one thing for UK foreign policy; it's at least honest in its cynicism. But at times US foreign policy has seemed dangerously divorced from reality, and overly wedded to an invalid 'good guy vs bad guy' dynamic that just doesn't work in politics. On March 14 2018 18:57 Nebuchad wrote: I guess I think the Russia-Tillerson case is just kind of compelling. He wasn't really in the running for SoS, but there's this big contract between Exxon and Russia, someone like Romney is never going to be an ally on that, so he goes in. The contract fails, five seconds later he's gone. I would say there's a good chance that there's something there, I don't know exactly in what order the pieces go. One of the great things about White House season 2 is that the conspiracy plot line really is compelling. Almost anyone could be involved and everyone knows a little bit of something, but like most seasons-long plotlines it'll mostly come down to a couple of side characters going down to prove the moral of the story. The Tillerson-Trump relationship was shown as rocky through a fair bit of season 1, and then deteriorating rapidly in season 2. This incident strikes me more as a straw breaking the camel's back rather than evidence of this or that. I for one absolutely believe Tillerson called Trump a fucking moron, and I don't believe he's even slightly sorry for doing so. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12172 Posts
On March 14 2018 19:05 iamthedave wrote: One of the great things about White House season 2 is that the conspiracy plot line really is compelling. Almost anyone could be involved and everyone knows a little bit of something, but like most seasons-long plotlines it'll mostly come down to a couple of side characters going down to prove the moral of the story. The Tillerson-Trump relationship was shown as rocky through a fair bit of season 1, and then deteriorating rapidly in season 2. This incident strikes me more as a straw breaking the camel's back rather than evidence of this or that. I for one absolutely believe Tillerson called Trump a fucking moron, and I don't believe he's even slightly sorry for doing so. Relation deteriorating, they didn't like each other, he's known for impulsivity, yet he keeps him for all this time. And five seconds after the Exxon contract is out of the picture, that's when he's fired. Those dots look like they connect fairly decently. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23221 Posts
3 Federal authorities on Tuesday charged three men from rural central Illinois with the bombing of a Minnesota mosque last year and said one of the suspects told an investigator the goal of the attack was to "scare" Muslims out of the United States. A statement from the U.S. attorney's office in Springfield, Illinois, says the men also are suspected in the attempted bombing of an abortion clinic. The Dar Al-Farooq Islamic Center in Bloomington, Minnesota, was bombed just before morning prayers on Aug. 5, causing a fire and extensive damage although no one was injured or killed. And there was an attempted bombing of the Champaign, Illinois, Women's Health Practice on Nov. 7. One of the men, Michael B. Hari, 47, described in an April 2017 Chicago Tribune article how he drafted a $10 billion plan to build a wall along the border with Mexico, citing President Donald Trump's call for such a wall. Hari drew up the proposal after launching a security company, Crisis Resolution Security Services, the newspaper said. Hari also filed a federal lawsuit just last month in central Illinois, naming the U.S. secretaries of agriculture and health and human services as defendants. It accuses their departments of violating his constitutional rights by doing the food-safety certification work that his firm, Equicert, does. "The People of the United States have rejected the Marxist doctrine that the government shall own the means of production," he wrote, according to the court document. He requested a court order barring federal officials from interfering with his business. The other two men charged in the mosque bombing with Hari were identified as Joe Morris, 22, and Michael McWhorter, 29. All three are from Clarence, a rural community of less than 100 residents some 35 miles north of Champaign-Urbana. A fourth man was charged with a gun offense, but he was not identified as a suspect in the bombing or attempted bombing. A complaint said a tip in December led authorities to investigate the three men, after a person sent the local sheriff photos of guns and bomb-making material inside Hari's parents' home, where Hari often stayed. In January, a second informant told authorities that the three men had carried out the mosque bombing and the failed clinic bombing, according to the complaint. McWhorter allegedly told an FBI agent during an interview that the three rented a pickup in Champaign and drove more than 500 miles to Minnesota with a plan to bomb the mosque, according to a criminal complaint. He said they wanted to let Muslims know they are not welcome in the United States and "scare them out of the country," according to notes taken by the FBI. Source Why is it so hard for media to call white people terrorists? I wonder when we're finally going to talk about how these people are being radicalized and what is wrong with their culture. The silence from white leaders (especially the president) is deafening. Some may even say they are complicit or encouraging it through their silence. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On March 14 2018 19:31 Nebuchad wrote: Relation deteriorating, they didn't like each other, he's known for impulsivity, yet he keeps him for all this time. And five seconds after the Exxon contract is out of the picture, that's when he's fired. Those dots look like they connect fairly decently. His reputation for impulsivity has a second edge; he's easy to talk down from the ledge. Tillerson had several people Trump trusted talking for him on a regular basis and persuading Trump not to do it. Same as Jeff Sessions. Trump CLEARLY hates Sessions, but he always gets talked down from firing him. My guess would be on this occasion the people either didn't turn up to talk in Tillerson's favour, or this was just too much and Trump stuck to his guns. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
The parents of murdered Democratic National Committee staff member Seth Rich have filed a lawsuit against Fox News, alleging that the network “intentionally exploited” their son’s death by promoting conspiracy theories about it. The lawsuit, detailed by ABC News Tuesday night, is centered on a story Fox News published on its website in May of 2017 suggesting that federal investigators were in possession of evidence that Rich had leaked DNC emails to the website WikiLeaks weeks before he was shot in Washington’s Bloomingdale neighborhood. The story quickly became and has remained a focus of conspiracy theorists because it contradicted the assessment of the U.S. intelligence community that the Russian government was behind the email hacking at the DNC. The lawsuit brought by Rich’s parents accuses Fox News and two individuals, reporter Malia Zimmerman and Dallas businessman and Fox News guest Ed Butowsky of seizing on Rich’s death in an effort to exonerate the president of allegations that his campaign colluded with the Russian government’s efforts to interfere in the 2016 election. Under great scrutiny, Fox News retracted the story six days after it was published, but the lawsuit alleges that the network has permanently altered their son’s legacy by moving theories about his death “from the fringe to the front pages and screens of the mainstream media.” “No parent should ever have to live through what we have been forced to endure,” Joel and Mary Rich said in a statement, according to ABC News. “The pain and anguish that comes from seeing your murdered son’s life and legacy treated as a mere political football is beyond comprehension.” ABC News reports that Butowsky called it "one of the dumbest" lawsuits he'd ever seen. Fox wouldn't comment to ABC News since representatives had ot viewed the complaint. Source | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On March 14 2018 21:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: The elephant in the room... Sean Hannity who kept reporting the conspiracy even after Fox retracted said story. Source Because the right wing needs a story as stupid to match the “despite all the evidence, Tillerson was fired because Trump-Russia.” It’s kind of a Vince foster for the new millennium. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
A teacher accidentally fired a gun inside a classroom here on Tuesday afternoon and a student was slightly hurt, authorities said. Dennis Alexander was teaching public safety for his Administration of Justice class in Seaside High School when a shot went off around 1:20 p.m., reports CBS Monterey, California affiliate KION-TV. Alexander is also a reserve police officer for Sand City Police, authorities said. Alexander "accidentally discharged his firearm into the ceiling," said Seaside Police Chief Abdul Pridgen. Though the gun didn't shoot anyone directly, "Fragments from the bullet struck a student in the neck," Pridgen said. www.msn.com | ||
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Garbels
Austria653 Posts
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