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On November 11 2012 19:18 RageCommodore wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2012 18:52 zdfgucker wrote:On November 11 2012 18:40 RageCommodore wrote:
I mean what would you buff to make up for the infestor with fungal and IT spawn? BL's would be basically useless against modern Protoss play because it would become so hard to protect them from Blinkstalkers/Vortex, hell even Storms or VR's (which would become viable vs Zerg again). Also vs Terran, what prevents Terrans from a) endlessly stutter stepping vs Ultras or b) stimming under Brood Lords? I understand that the Infestor is way too strong in it's current form an that there needs to be a nerf, but as you said, I'm just a noob and don't really know how the issue could be helped.
I just can't hear it anymore that progamers are just stating "Zerg is ridiculous and needs to be made harder to play" without providing any ideas on how to change Zerg in the detail without making it significantly inferior to other races. Gee, imagine zerg really had to techswitch in late game against toss! Kinda the way the race is supposed to be played, as only zerg can tech switch easily and quickly. And god forbid you had to use banelings in late game against terran and mix your army, sort of the way terran has to do it. You Zergs had it easy for a long time now. Terran got nerfed into oblivion and toss had its overpowered things removed, now it's your turn. And I pray to god that you guys will have to suffer the nerf wrath heavily because it's not funny anymore how Zergs beat equal or superior opponents with ease. Nerf infestors and give Zergs some time to adapt. The skill requirement for Zerg might increase again. Ant what exactly would you tech switch to? About half of the units that Zerg has are useless against P lategame. You can't make Hydras against AoE tech, Roaches just evaporate vs a maxed Toss army (even with better upgrades), Lings have too few life to handle the damage output, Ultras just get slaughtered if the Toss made any Immortals... just tell me to what you would techswitch if you face the typical lategam Toss army with Archons, Colossi, Blinkstalkers, Sentries and a mothership. Just tell me how many games you have seen where Zergs have won lategame without using the dreaded BL/Festor combo- there should be next to none.
+1. But i guess we should try to ignore all the suggestions of bronze P/T :D
OT: I have 2 sc2 accounts EU/KR and i get my "builds" (more like ideas of i see X --> make Y) from the GSL. I have to say, in the last month i only really enjoyed Life's ZvT, cause he uses mutas and has GREAT mapcontrol.
The rest of the matchups are just Infestor Wars. I am a bad player (like all of us), but even i manage to reach almost all the unit benchmarks i get from the GSL videos (ofc you dont get as much pressure in KR diamond). When i build my 10 spines at the watchtower on daybreak i know P is fucked. When i spread my BLs for like 20s (cause my micro sucks), i know thor splash is not enough and i roll the terran.
As a zerg you can only ignore your limited unit choices so long and i stopped playing all together. If nothing changes in the current HotS build (Immobile Lurker-Hosts, Hydra speed at hive and still glasscannons and i really dont know why i should build more then 1 viper when i can have 1 BL for almost the same price), i wont buy it ofc and just hope sc2 dies off quickly, so that blizz cant milk the loyal fanbase any longer.
Man, i am so sad  .
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France12904 Posts
On November 11 2012 19:50 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2012 19:38 Poopi wrote:On November 11 2012 19:36 Suikakuju wrote:
Funny thing for me is that when it was GomTvT or vP all day long no one cried about infestor/broodlords being imbalanced. And they didnt even change something about those units. they´re in game since beginning.
I dont like them because I don´t like the idea of units casting/shooting/spawning units, but thats what they did to Zerg in Sc2 so... Lol you do realize that there was a big infestor buff, right? Also he doesn't seem to remember that when it was GomTvT it was at a time zerg never spammed infestors like they do now.
Yeah it was like koreans discovered infestors when Stephano made his splash. Like it was some sort of new thing even though Destiny, Nerchio, Stephano and probably a lot of other foreign zergs used it a lot.
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On November 11 2012 19:44 Suikakuju wrote:
they changed it like a year ago....or something? lots of GomTvT since then xD
Balance problems never go away with this game. There will always be something that is OP. If they buff or nerf X, there will be a Y somewhere else that becomes too strong or weak. The problem is, they designed specific builds to kill certain other builds, and when you start nerfing out those builds then the stuff they were supposed to counter becomes too strong. I don't feel this is what happened with the infestor specifically, I think they just buffed the unit when it didn't need it. Zerg players always were uncreative, they just never figured out how to utilize it before the huge damage buffs. I mean now it doesn't exactly take much thought to go for an infestor style strategy, they work as a "counter everything" unit. They basically removed the strategy element behind the infestor when they buffed it so much.
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I've just got an idea, the real problem is BL infestor & zergs say they need infestors really hard. Let's nerf BL so. I think it's not really the damages, it's the fact that you have to back when there are so many broodlings + fungals to block ground units. Either reduce broodlings duration or walk over them as colossi walk over other units. They would gain tons of dps in later case but the opponent would gain more maneuvrability.
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On November 11 2012 19:54 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2012 19:44 Suikakuju wrote:
they changed it like a year ago....or something? lots of GomTvT since then xD Balance problems never go away with this game. There will always be something that is OP. If they buff or nerf X, there will be a Y somewhere else that becomes too strong or weak. The problem is, they designed specific builds to kill certain other builds, and when you start nerfing out those builds then the stuff they were supposed to counter becomes too strong. I don't feel this is what happened with the infestor specifically, I think they just buffed the unit when it didn't need it. Zerg players always were uncreative, they just never figured out how to utilize it before the huge damage buffs. I mean now it doesn't exactly take much thought to go for an infestor style strategy, they work as a "counter everything" unit.
Were people seriously whining that much before Queen + Overlord buff? Was infestor weaker? No, you just couldn't freeride into midgame.
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Casters is Starcraft II have always been way too strong.
They are supposed to be support units that take some skill and multitasking to control.
Before the KA amulet patch high templars were too strong and too much of a panic button unit.
The ghost also was before EMP radius got patched.
Now it's the infestors turn.
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Another thread about infestors ? Don't we already have 3 of them like the Dustin one, the solution to infestor and now this one ? I know the korean pros opinion is really important but can't we group all of this in one thread ? :p
Besides people keep repeating the same things over and over in every thread !
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On November 11 2012 19:56 Highways wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DrgMn.jpg)
disgusting :<
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Blizzard promptly nerfed the Ghost into the ground because it "countered all the tier 3 Zerg units and Terrans were massing them". Well Infestors counter everything in the game and are both the best mid tier unit for Zerg and the best late game unit. How is that fair or interesting to watch?
You watch games like the ones in the NASL where  Dark gets 35-40 infestors and just bludgeons his opponent to death with infested terrans and it's a little bit sickening. Remove the snare from Fungal, increase the energy cost on infested terrans and increase the supply cost of Infestors to 3 as a start. I mean you blindly threw in the 5 queen range with little testing so that the meta game shifted over night, how about you throw this in and let the Zergs sink or swim like T&P have had to?
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EPT
