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A solution to the MScore AND warpgates

Forum Index > Closed
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Azoryen
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Portugal242 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-04 11:43:30
October 04 2012 11:39 GMT
#1
I always felt like the true problem in PvP is the warpgate mechanic and I have other threads about this.
Also, when we talk about the warpgate mechanic issues, it's important to remember that the problem only ocurrs because of the synergy between warpgates and pylons being built anywhere.

Considering all this I came with what I believe is the best solution for all the issues of P early defense while solving some of the warpgate issues at the same time:

So here's my proposal:
- Warp-ins are only possible inside a Nexus or MScore range. No longer dependent on pylons.
- MS core has no offensive capability.
- Warpgates are built as warpgates, regular gateways are removed.
- Warpgates cost 200 minerals instead of 150.

OK, let's see how all this plays out.

- MScore design is much more consistent, becoming a true mobility provider for the armies, allowing both warp-ins and recall to nexus.
- If one P goes for MScore, the other will have the option of going for a more eco build and still be able to generate an army to match the attacker's because the MScore does not add offensive power. This is very different from the current gameplay because in WoL if one P goes for warpgates the other P is also forced to go warpgate otherwise he will be producing army slower inside his own base.
Now protoss has a real trade-off for his gain of mobility.
- The defender will be able to end a Protoss all-in by sniping the MScore, which is easier than finding and destroying all the pylons.
- Protoss does not gain significant offensive all-in power in the other match-ups because the MScore compensates for the cost of warpgate tech. This can also be fine tuned with the gas cost and build time of the MScore, without additional complex variables.
- Regular gateways being removed is cleaner design because they only exist to prevent the very first zealot from being warped inside the opponent's base. This problem is also solved, so no longer need for this reminder of a design issue.
- Warpgates remain as the special production mechanic that adds 'flavor' to the protoss race, without creating as many issues as they do in WoL.

On a side note: I'm not a big fan of the 1-limit unit. But if Blizzard really wants the MScore to work, I think this is a much more consistent solution. Maybe a limit of 1 per nexus and a dissociation from Mothership (and name change) would work even better. It would work like a Nexus mobile add-on.

P.S. I know people will think of gameplay implications that I didn't consider, but please remember that there are still many unfinished issues with the current MScore.
I'm not trying to come up with a final and refined solution because not even Blizzard is capable of that.
The only real question here is if this is a better starting point than the current MScore.
puissance
Profile Joined May 2010
97 Posts
October 04 2012 11:47 GMT
#2
Interesting idea, but what do you think about the following changes:
- Change MSC to its pre-beta state (attached to nexus), no more rush problems and improved gameplay due to MSC Teleport.
- Increase Warpgate cooldown compared to Gateways so that have uses. Gives defenders advantage in PvP and careful consideration how many gates should be Warp/Gateways -> Improved gameplay.

My take on the both issues.
At the back door there's the collapsible rocks, you wanna destroy those to block off the back door with rocks and your opponent has to kill the rocks, and later you can shoot down the rocks to get to the third.. ~Day9 TvP Hots Battlereport
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
October 04 2012 11:49 GMT
#3
Personally I have never understood why the Warp Gate gives you freedom of production anywhere AND a production speed boost (reduced cooldown). If you can use Warp Gate to warp in anywhere, BUT it is significantly slower than producing out of a Gateway there would be a defenders advantage enough to solve early PvP. Sure you can make up for a 20% slower production speed by building five instead of four Gates, but that costs resources and reduces your number of units again. This change is also a lot simpler compared to yours, which would "retcon" the general way Protoss works.
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
Treehead
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
999 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-04 11:54:27
October 04 2012 11:53 GMT
#4
On October 04 2012 20:39 Azoryen wrote:

So here's my proposal:
- Warp-ins are only possible inside a Nexus or MScore range. No longer dependent on pylons.
- MS core has no offensive capability.
- Warpgates are built as warpgates, regular gateways are removed.
- Warpgates cost 200 minerals instead of 150.

...

I'm not trying to come up with a final and refined solution because not even Blizzard is capable of that.
The only real question here is if this is a better starting point than the current MScore.


So let me see if I get this straight.

Your solution to PvP is to limit warpins, take away the MSC's attack, take away the need for warpgate research but also make warpgates cost more (very early game advantage, early-midgame and lategame penalty - 9 gateways cost 450 more). So your solution is to make protoss pretty much strictly weaker than they are now. I'm sure that'll play out well in PvZ and against Terran timing attacks.

No, this isn't better than the current MsC.
Azoryen
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Portugal242 Posts
October 04 2012 12:03 GMT
#5
On October 04 2012 20:49 Rabiator wrote:
Personally I have never understood why the Warp Gate gives you freedom of production anywhere AND a production speed boost (reduced cooldown). If you can use Warp Gate to warp in anywhere, BUT it is significantly slower than producing out of a Gateway there would be a defenders advantage enough to solve early PvP. Sure you can make up for a 20% slower production speed by building five instead of four Gates, but that costs resources and reduces your number of units again. This change is also a lot simpler compared to yours, which would "retcon" the general way Protoss works.


Making warpgates produce slower than gateways is not a new idea, I've seen it many times before.
I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but I'm sure Blizzard is aware of that as well as many other alternatives.

Since they haven't implement any of that, I think it's more productive to make this thread a discussion about a new fresh idea than to come here and dismiss it by repeating old ones over and over again.
spbelky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States623 Posts
October 04 2012 12:10 GMT
#6
I still don't understand why Gateways build units slower than a Warpgate... it really just seems backwards. If they were to just make gateways builds units faster than Warpgates, Protoss could have the defenders advantage even Vs. other Protoss... by simply staying on gateways longer and only morphing to warpgate for emergency units and for aggression.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
October 04 2012 12:12 GMT
#7
This isn't the place for this thread.
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