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Hello TL! I was lost in my thoughts when i came up with this idea about the Oracle. =)
I think the Oracle we have in the current version has two issues:
1) Entomb is quite effective, but still boring to spectate (and to use i would add).
2) Phase Shield, as recognised by Blizzard, is too much of a specific spell.
Proposed solution to add much more fun and sinergy!
This is it:
1) Entomb removed.
Oracle gains a new spell which allow to temporarily steal mineral cargo from workers (a ray animation maybe?)
while moving. Eventually the Protoss Player gains those resources.
2) Phase Shield removed. Phase Shift (limited to static defenses only) is back.
Thoughts:
Oracle now has a huge sinergy with both other Oracles, but with Phoenixes/Voidrays/Dts too.
One "energized" Oracle can now shut down a spore/turret/cannon and shut down mining while (eventually) stealing resources
Two or more Oracles can do a much betterjob. Ex. : Two Oracles outmicroing one Queen.
One Oracle + one Phoenix can shut down the spore, lift the Queen and negate/steal the resources.
When more Phoenixes/Oracles/Voidrays are in play ..Oracles still have a huge support role.
Lategame: both Phase Shift and the "New Spell" would be usable allowing the Protoss to unleash all his multitasking abilities!
Extra: Phase Shift from multiple Oracles may help to open holes in a defensive wall of static defenses.
That's it! I avoided giving specific numbers since i think it is useless to!
I'd really like to hear your thoughts about this "ideas combo".
Any big flaw i'm missing? Ways to improve this?
I do know that a concept in the form of stealing resources was proposed in the past, but my goal was to give the unit an overall revamp.
Fun Fact: I'm a Zerg player!! Yeee! But i'd like to see more entertaing dinamycs in other races too! 
edit to the OP
- As suggested from other members, the "stealing ray" could actually be one of the following:
a) an activated ability for X energy that last X seconds.
b) a single target activated ability for a low amount of energy required. Crazy multitask is rewarded with this.
c) the base "attack" of the oracle (not a spell then). Super friendly to use, but huge potential to be super strong too.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Probably good suggestions, but Blizzards never reading TL.net forums
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Remove the mother ship
and give the oracle the cloaking field like it was supposed to have.
any more simple, and it would be A moving with collosi.
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can't we do something with it that doesn't involve resources? I mean stealing minerals, blocking minerals are never going to be fun to use/observe concepts ...
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Entomb is a great concept...but is a little one dimensional. Kind of all or nothing. I like the idea of the oracle having a 'tractor beam' spell. Wouldn't affect units and couldn't destroy things...but you could pick things up (rocks/watchtowers/minerals/buildings/geysers) and rearrange them elsewhere based on how much mana you had left. I think the creativity potential would be quite high...
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On October 01 2012 00:37 Existor wrote:
Probably good suggestions, but Blizzards never reading TL.net forums
Well, after i collect TL suggestions i can refine the idea ..and if it is a good one the community may help to spread it and make it louder! =)
I just didn't want to directly post it on bnet, since ..i actually have no way to do it ! ^_^
But again if people like this it will eventually get there.
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cloaking field and easy recall access. remove the mothership. last but not least, remove the bloody fungal growth!
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On October 01 2012 00:40 wcr.4fun wrote:
can't we do something with it that doesn't involve resources? I mean stealing minerals, blocking minerals are never going to be fun to use/observe concepts ...
signed !
On October 01 2012 00:44 Fungal Growth wrote:
Entomb is a great concept...but is a little one dimensional. Kind of all or nothing. I like the idea of the oracle having a 'tractor beam' spell. Wouldn't affect units and couldn't destroy things...but you could pick things up (rocks/watchtowers/minerals/buildings/geysers) and rearrange them elsewhere based on how much mana you had left. I think the creativity potential would be quite high...
Entomb is a terrible concept, because it totally blocks your harvesters and you have to be aware of it happening to "counter" (rather: reduce its effect). The reason why it is a terrible concept is the fact that the Oracle is a flyer who can use this without any danger to itself ... mostly. If it was a spell for the Infestor or the High Templar it would be acceptable, but not on a flyer!
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On October 01 2012 00:37 Existor wrote:
Probably good suggestions, but Blizzards never reading TL.net forums
+ Show Spoiler +As you’ve likely noticed, we’re still actively tuning the numbers on many of the new units we’re introducing in Heart of the Swarm. We’re making these changes after frequently referring to the stats from the beta, our play experiences, discussions taking place on the community forums and fan sites, and pro feedback. We think there’s still a ways to go in terms of number tweaks and are working hard to bring you the best experience possible.
The main design changes for this week are surrounding the mothership core. Due to the variety in maps, we found that no matter how slow we made the mothership core’s movement speed, deadly all-in strategies exist on many different maps and/or positions. To ensure that this unit does not limit us as well as the many tournament map makers around the world, we decided to go in a new direction.
The mothership core’s Purify ability is now cast on a Nexus attaching the unit to the Nexus and enabling a weapon that deals 20 damage. The mothership core will remain attached to the Nexus until cancelled; however, energy will not be regenerated and no abilities can be used while attached. Additionally, the Recall ability has been modified to teleport the mothership core and units nearby to a targeted Nexus. Both of these changes were made to discourage the unit from being used in all-ins. Now that its two spells are strictly defensive, we believe we can make a cooler mothership core. It will now move at a reasonably fast speed and feature an anti-ground attack. We hope these changes will make the unit a lot more fun to use.
We’ve also been carefully monitoring your feedback regarding the map pool and agree that Fractured Glacier isn’t a very competitive 1v1 map. In the future, we will be removing this from the ladder pool and will be replacing it with a new map. Additionally, three Wings of Liberty maps will be added into the beta map pool at a later date. Our current plan is to implement these map pool changes as soon as possible and stick with these eight maps for the remainder of the beta. We anticipate that Heart of the Swarm Season 1 will feature the same map pool; however, this is definitely not set in stone, so feedback on the updated map pool is greatly appreciated.
Next on the design docket:
We’re currently looking at ways to alter the design of the widow mine so that it feels like core terran unit. We’re also reevaluating the oracle's third spell: Phase Shift. While Phase Shift is a cool option against Fungal Growth, is not very appealing in other situations. These are the main things we’re looking at right now, so we encourage you to share your feedback regarding these two topics.
Thank you so much for playing the beta and giving us your feedback. Please remember that nothing is final; we’re doing our best on each of the three races and hope to continue working with our players in order to make Heart of the Swarm awesome.
I think they do skim TL.
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Given The new version, Patch 4, of Mothership core does a much better job of harassing than the oracle either alone or as a 3gate push.
I too like the idea of entomb changed from its current form as it's not as entertaining as say, Stasis field of SCBW.
It is much more complex to explain to a casual viewer WHY economic damage is such a big deal.
Edit: suggestions,
- entomb could be the new stasis field, except lower casting cost and units get to break out of the tomb.
- entomb could work like invisibility or mass invisibility or negative zone (marvel comics), phasing units into an alternative dimension until they attack or spell wears off.
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Steal mineral/gas idea sounds awesome!
Maybe protoss can get the stolen minerals/gas by having the oracle return them to nexus.
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So do you figer like a 5 energy spell that takes the resources from a worker that is about to return them to the hatchery? I mean that would be cool because it would require a lot of APM and probably action/reaction from both players. Oracle + Other harass being effective sounds nice. Maybe even too strong?
I like this a lot more than current oracle at least. Blizzard should focus much more on INTERESTING stuff that actually creates depth and micro and is, most importantly, fun to watch. Fun to watch should be the ultimate design goal, since this is a spectator sport 
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I have post this in a few other threads but im not getting tired of the idea:
Make the oracle into a mobile shieldbattery wich can attack while moving like the voidray and can suck up slowly enemy hp and can save it as shieldenergy wich can be supplydlater on to own units to regenerate their shields.And if it gets emp-d it loses all its saved shieldenergy. It also shoud have the ability to generate a field like a pylon and to teleport an friendly unit wich is in the field to another point in the field. If y overlap the fields of some oracles than y can also chainteleport in short steps over longer distance. And the entomp shoud take 2-3 secs in wich the oracle must stay in attacking range(think of it as a beam wich changes the dimension of the target like star trek) and shoud be working on friendly and enemy units and structures and make it that the target disapiers and y must get detection to see the green bubble and destroy it. So that y can hide own units,buildings for a short time when the enemy is attacking or hide (single) enemy units vortex like or building to slow down their production/upgrades.If y target minerals y can target only 1 mineral patch at the time.
I think blizz said in one post in the hots beta forum, that they are searching for new spells for oracle in the moment , so anyone with an us-battlenetacount and betainvitation, plz post good ideas that y see on this forum to:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/5671338/
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I'd like to see the oracle have one harass spell for short range usage that is more powerful but risks death and one less-powerful but longer range spell that leaves the oracle at a safe distance from widow mines/static D.
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On October 01 2012 01:49 TzTz wrote:So do you figer like a 5 energy spell that takes the resources from a worker that is about to return them to the hatchery? I mean that would be cool because it would require a lot of APM and probably action/reaction from both players. Oracle + Other harass being effective sounds nice. Maybe even too strong? I like this a lot more than current oracle at least. Blizzard should focus much more on INTERESTING stuff that actually creates depth and micro and is, most importantly, fun to watch. Fun to watch should be the ultimate design goal, since this is a spectator sport
Well, your is a good idea, but i don't know if blizzard is willing to go so extreme about micro possibility.
I would be fine with the "stealing ray" to be activated and last X second. You still have to micro your Oracle away from the queen or to chase those pesky drones that will try to run with their loot!
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Love the 'steal resources' idea for the oracle. Perhaps the oracle (if we're not using my tractor beam idea) would take a big bite out out of the minerals (say 1k) and try to fly off with them. However, minerals would be 'heavy' so would slow the oracle down and the enemy would try to shoot the oracle down to prevent their resources from escaping too far. So say they shoot down the oracle as it flies just by the choke...then if they want to get those 1k minerals...they will have to send workers over their to harvest them. To keep the oracle from dropping minerals into an abyss, there could be a requirement that once an oracle has a payload (like the idea that they can carry more than minerals...gas, rocks, watchtowers/buildings) then they can no longer fly...but can 'hover' move...basically flying without going over deadspace like a colossi.
Sooo many fun things you could do with this.
Another (but inferior, non-combat role for the oracle) ability could be an earthmover spell. Could actually create ramps off of cliffs...close ramps up...widen/narrow ramps. Now these are serious operations...so maybe require like a minute spell time for an oracle to create a brand new ramp for example? All in all, I love the idea of making the map more dynamic and less static...more like minecraft 
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Since oracle has an anti-fungal spell, maybe they should get an anti-missile spell.
Precognitive reflexes:
Non-massive Units affected are able to Preempt all projectiles targeted at them, perfectly dodging marine/marauder/stalker/roach/etc fire for the next 5 seconds, aka Neo (The matrix) effect.
Effect: immune to direct missile attacks except AoEs.
Synergy with all gateway builds, phoniex builds, VR builds, etc
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On October 01 2012 02:43 Fungal Growth wrote:Love the 'steal resources' idea for the oracle. Perhaps the oracle (if we're not using my tractor beam idea) would take a big bite out out of the minerals (say 1k) and try to fly off with them. However, minerals would be 'heavy' so would slow the oracle down and the enemy would try to shoot the oracle down to prevent their resources from escaping too far. So say they shoot down the oracle as it flies just by the choke...then if they want to get those 1k minerals...they will have to send workers over their to harvest them. To keep the oracle from dropping minerals into an abyss, there could be a requirement that once an oracle has a payload (like the idea that they can carry more than minerals...gas, rocks, watchtowers/buildings) then they can no longer fly...but can 'hover' move...basically flying without going over deadspace like a colossi. Sooo many fun things you could do with this. Another (but inferior, non-combat role for the oracle) ability could be an earthmover spell. Could actually create ramps off of cliffs...close ramps up...widen/narrow ramps. Now these are serious operations...so maybe require like a minute spell time for an oracle to create a brand new ramp for example? All in all, I love the idea of making the map more dynamic and less static...more like minecraft
Idea #1 Seems not really user friendly to me.
Idea #2 They already got forcefields! :D
A lot of you guys are supporting cloak to be in the Oracle arsenal. That would be for sure more interesting than Phase Shield, but it affects so many scenarios that i don't know how i feel about it yet.
edit to the OP
- As suggested from other members, the "stealing ray" could actually be one of the following:
a) an activated ability for X energy that last X seconds.
b) a single target activated ability for a low amount of energy required. Crazy multitask is rewarded with this.
c) the base "attack" of the oracle (not a spell then). Super friendly to use, but huge potential to be super strong too.
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I once thought of something like this replacing entomb:
Ability name: Warp Relay
Energy: 75
3 second casting time
Single target ability, can be cast on enemy main buildings (Nexus, CC, Hatchery). When the ability is successfully cast a X hp distortion is created around the affected building. The distortion relays all resourced gathered (or a % amount) to the owner of the Oracle that casted the ability. Damaging the distortion also damages the affected building. Lasts Y seconds.
The ability could also have no casting time, but the distortion would then start with very little hp and every second the oracle would be near it, the distortion's hp would increase (after casting the spell a visual link would appear between the oracle and the targeted building)
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On October 01 2012 00:37 Existor wrote:
Probably good suggestions, but Blizzards never reading TL.net forums
Oh yeah because they didn't remove the warhound and added the carrier after the two biggest threads about both those changes were on tl, also they said like 500 times in interviews that they have people reading community sites for them, I'd say the biggest one may be part of that.
I don't know how I feel about those changes. IMO entombed is actually a really nice spell, my only problem with it is that there is no fancy tab we can open in casted games and there is no real number besides the lack of income you can really tell by how much it did.
I like the idea of phase shift back in though, but imo phasing shield is such an interesting spell that I'd love to see it in atleast for a few more weeks so we can fully figure it's potential out.
I see where your ideas are coming from, but I kinda like the oracle the way it is now and I'd atleast like to give it some more time before putting in such major changes. Also entombed has been in since the first time we saw it, I'm fairly sure blizz must be quite confident in the spell working out.
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On October 01 2012 03:04 Kaleidos wrote: Idea #1 Seems not really user friendly to me. Au contraire! It would be super fun and easy to use. Float the oracle up to the mineral line...cast 'embezzle', right click where you want to go to (probably your home base). When you get home, click 'unload'...and a brand new mineral patch can appear next to your nexus that you can harvest. Super fun...and dynamic! Because the oracle can be shot down, minerals could be left in odd spots...and if you get home there is strategy with how you place your new mineral load. This could be balanced by tweaking the load size...I think 1k is a nice payoff myself.
Idea #2 They already got forcefields! :D The way I envision this there would be no overlap. Forcefield is not permanent and affects active units. However 'earth moving' would be permanent and it should not affect current units until it is done. Construction time should take a while to make sure this isn't a battle spell and if any unit walks over the construction area, then construction of the new ramp or whatever halts. Don't know how abstract one could be with this...maybe a construct ability could make new watchtowers...boulder piles, etc...
Another idea for the oracle...is that many have suggested it should affect the workers more so than the mineral patches. This way you can't transfer the workers to another mineral patch and you can't use workers to destroy the entombs (so you have to leave forces at home which splits up potential deathballs). One implementation of this would be a glue type spell...that the oracle cast on the minerals. Once cast...if the opposition isn't paying attention then the workers who touch the patches will be glued there can't escape. This opens up combination strategies, like doing storm/colossi drops just after you've trapped all these workers.
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Lorch...good idea about including stats for this. I'm not sure if there is a slick way to do this in-game, but in replays, there could be a popup and counter that calculates lost minerals based on # of workers attacking or idle next to entombs. Then some tab would include a cumulative total of how much entomb delayed mining by.
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On October 01 2012 03:18 Tritanis wrote:
I once thought of something like this replacing entomb:
Ability name: Warp Relay
Energy: 75
3 second casting time
Single target ability, can be cast on enemy main buildings (Nexus, CC, Hatchery). When the ability is successfully cast a X hp distortion is created around the affected building. The distortion relays all resourced gathered (or a % amount) to the owner of the Oracle that casted the ability. Damaging the distortion also damages the affected building. Lasts Y seconds.
The ability could also have no casting time, but the distortion would then start with very little hp and every second the oracle would be near it, the distortion's hp would increase (after casting the spell a visual link would appear between the oracle and the targeted building)
Well this sounds like the Syphon spell they had in mind for the Corruptor.
Actually your "distortion" feels really zergish!! . Not that bad tho
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On October 01 2012 03:34 Fungal Growth wrote:
Lorch...good idea about including stats for this. I'm not sure if there is a slick way to do this in-game, but in replays, there could be a popup and counter that calculates lost minerals based on # of workers attacking or idle next to entombs. Then some tab would include a cumulative total of how much entomb delayed mining by.
There's already a feature called, "income tab"
Not sure if it's available for live games though.
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On October 01 2012 00:37 Existor wrote:
Probably good suggestions, but Blizzards never reading TL.net forums
I rather see them reading mostly their internal pro forum than every forum out there.
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On October 01 2012 03:59 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
There's already a feature called, "income tab"
Not sure if it's available for live games though. Extrapolating total lost resources from entomb from the income tab is tricky though...because you have to monitor the before and after income and do a time calcuation to get the total. The gist of of this is...can there be a mechanism that lets you figure out if your oracle paid for itself.
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On October 01 2012 04:03 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 00:37 Existor wrote:
Probably good suggestions, but Blizzards never reading TL.net forums I rather see them reading mostly their internal pro forum than every forum out there.
I agree, honestly solely to prevent them from reading this thread with stealing minerals and giving them 'sick' new ideas..
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On October 01 2012 03:59 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 03:34 Fungal Growth wrote:
Lorch...good idea about including stats for this. I'm not sure if there is a slick way to do this in-game, but in replays, there could be a popup and counter that calculates lost minerals based on # of workers attacking or idle next to entombs. Then some tab would include a cumulative total of how much entomb delayed mining by. There's already a feature called, "income tab" Not sure if it's available for live games though.
I know and thats probably what casters will do when people entombed. It's just that if you hit CTR R and it shows that x amount of workers were killed during say a dt drop, everyone and there mother totally gets that and there is excitement in that process (e.g. a banshee getting that last scv killed before it dies). With entombed you open income, it goes down a bit, and once the shield thingies are gone it goes up again. Thats a lot more abstract and brings a lot less excitement for spectators. Maybe if it'd just add to resource lost you could atleast show that and there would be the very real number of say "500 minerals were lost during that entombed harrass". Just imagine a terran dropping 12 mules on his new expo lategame, oracle coming in and entombing, not only will that give the "denied" feel to the crowd, the resources lost tab would also go crazy.
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On October 01 2012 02:43 Fungal Growth wrote:Love the 'steal resources' idea for the oracle. Perhaps the oracle (if we're not using my tractor beam idea) would take a big bite out out of the minerals (say 1k) and try to fly off with them. However, minerals would be 'heavy' so would slow the oracle down and the enemy would try to shoot the oracle down to prevent their resources from escaping too far. So say they shoot down the oracle as it flies just by the choke...then if they want to get those 1k minerals...they will have to send workers over their to harvest them. To keep the oracle from dropping minerals into an abyss, there could be a requirement that once an oracle has a payload (like the idea that they can carry more than minerals...gas, rocks, watchtowers/buildings) then they can no longer fly...but can 'hover' move...basically flying without going over deadspace like a colossi. Sooo many fun things you could do with this. Another (but inferior, non-combat role for the oracle) ability could be an earthmover spell. Could actually create ramps off of cliffs...close ramps up...widen/narrow ramps. Now these are serious operations...so maybe require like a minute spell time for an oracle to create a brand new ramp for example? All in all, I love the idea of making the map more dynamic and less static...more like minecraft
i love both of your ideas, but they are prolly too bold for blizzard
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Harpua brougth the post in the hots battlenet-beta forum.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6758676922
But it has only 24 clicks and 3 replies. We must all log in his post and replie it , that the developer see, that the post is sticky and important, before it jumps out of page one. If you dont have an betakey and so cant post in the forum, perhaps you know someone wich has one , who woud like to support the topic idea. So tell them to look at the post.
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Im just not sold on the idea that there needs to be a harass that cannot kill workers. Killing workers and entomb both 'delay' income, but workers dying also cost money to be replaced, as well as maintaining balanced resource lines.
in its current state entomb is a kill and re queue ordeal.
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I had quite a simular idea couple of weeks ago, my idea was: Resource theft.
Oracle get a ability to steal resources with a middle range ray. Once the ray is activated on enemy gas geyser/mineral patch it's "occupied". The opponent will get less gas/minerals for a couple of seconds, not that big of a deal but if the Oracle reach home base and drops off the cargo toss will have a small resource boost. The Oracle will have a limited cargo space but must reach a home nexus to gain the minerals. Mineral theft should be the start ability and Gas theft has to be researched, maybe even a research for larger cargo.
Anyways I thought it fits quite nice into the game cause atm toss is the "slowest" race with it's expensive high hp units, Sometimes (especially vs Z) protoss get's a huge disadvantage in bases and all their effective units cost a lot so there is no way back other then all in.. And i believe that as a spectator most of the time it's boring that there's so little comebacks in the game overall, i think all races should have some ways to try to win hopeless games, it will add a lot of excitement to the game in my opinion.
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I love that resource-theft idea.
It shuts down the enemy's mining, just like entomb, except it requires lots more APM just because you need to keep the oracle alive for as long as possible while it's flying near the mineral line. Together with the disruption web, you could spend enough energy to shut down the enemy's defenses to let you do so longer.
I guess the better question is: why would you want this instead of phoenixes? Would it be more of a way to go:
build a few phoenixes to harass -> opponent builds some static defence -> build an oracle to energize and continue to lay down the harassment?
very interesting. could be amazing, could be not-so-much.
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EPT
