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On September 21 2012 12:42 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 12:38 Bobgrimly wrote:
Op forgot to factor in creep spreading... Perfect creep spread is very useful at all points of the game.
And BW zerg doesn't have to worry about a missed inject. From a stress point of view SC2 zerg is much more intensive. Getting distracted takes a lot out of macro. Missed injects/less creep spread = weaker zerg.
And SC2 has less micro options as mentioned to be able to make up for the lost macro. So Jaedong is probably pointing out that SC2 zerg is less forgiving than BW zerg, that there is more APM needed on a consistent basis than BW than total APM. That consistent apm is taken off all the other potential uses for your APM like microing an individual zergling or pack of mutas or infestors etc. BW zerg didn't have that problem. Okay you need to check out the definition of Macro. Macro = Unit Production. Creep Spread is a strategical aspect of the game. Thus I didn't included it because why the fuck would anyone go off the tangent from the topic we are trying to related. Last paragraph you wrote is a total blur.
So because creep spread isn't really a factor in BW, we should just completely ignore it when trying to compare the difficulty of each game?
Interesting.
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Well this is a really weird topic.
BW is a harder game and requires more apm and SC2.
I played very little broodwar, but for the time I played it I was zerg and I am also zerg in SC2, and I find BW zerg to be 10x harder just because I have to separately hotkey my hatcheries or use the camera hotkey, but that's also making it harder than sc2.
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On September 21 2012 12:46 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 12:42 Xiphos wrote:On September 21 2012 12:38 Bobgrimly wrote:
Op forgot to factor in creep spreading... Perfect creep spread is very useful at all points of the game.
And BW zerg doesn't have to worry about a missed inject. From a stress point of view SC2 zerg is much more intensive. Getting distracted takes a lot out of macro. Missed injects/less creep spread = weaker zerg.
And SC2 has less micro options as mentioned to be able to make up for the lost macro. So Jaedong is probably pointing out that SC2 zerg is less forgiving than BW zerg, that there is more APM needed on a consistent basis than BW than total APM. That consistent apm is taken off all the other potential uses for your APM like microing an individual zergling or pack of mutas or infestors etc. BW zerg didn't have that problem. Okay you need to check out the definition of Macro. Macro = Unit Production. Creep Spread is a strategical aspect of the game. Thus I didn't included it because why the fuck would anyone go off the tangent from the topic we are trying to related. Last paragraph you wrote is a total blur. So because creep spread isn't really a factor in BW, we should just completely ignore it when trying to compare the difficulty of each game? Interesting.
Where did you lose your ability to read, this is is only a macro analysis of the two games. So why don't you take that notion of yours and create your own thread for comparison.
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On September 21 2012 12:46 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 12:42 Xiphos wrote:On September 21 2012 12:38 Bobgrimly wrote:
Op forgot to factor in creep spreading... Perfect creep spread is very useful at all points of the game.
And BW zerg doesn't have to worry about a missed inject. From a stress point of view SC2 zerg is much more intensive. Getting distracted takes a lot out of macro. Missed injects/less creep spread = weaker zerg.
And SC2 has less micro options as mentioned to be able to make up for the lost macro. So Jaedong is probably pointing out that SC2 zerg is less forgiving than BW zerg, that there is more APM needed on a consistent basis than BW than total APM. That consistent apm is taken off all the other potential uses for your APM like microing an individual zergling or pack of mutas or infestors etc. BW zerg didn't have that problem. Okay you need to check out the definition of Macro. Macro = Unit Production. Creep Spread is a strategical aspect of the game. Thus I didn't included it because why the fuck would anyone go off the tangent from the topic we are trying to related. Last paragraph you wrote is a total blur. So because creep spread isn't really a factor in BW, we should just completely ignore it when trying to compare the difficulty of each game? Interesting.
if you are going to discuss all mechanical aspects of zerg then it is even more clear that scbw zerg is harder. But I think the discussion is around macro which Jaedong commented on.
Personally I wouldn`t read much into that interview. I`d rather hear his thoughts on comparisons when he plays sc2 for atleast a year.
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Ill trust JD any day of the week. If he say so he is properly right
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brood war zerg is so much more demanding its ridiculous.
but i guess from jaedongs point of view when you're used to playing at 300+ apm bw zerg mechanics arent too troubling.
@templar rage. i disagree; if you played more than 'a few games' even when you know the metagame and what you should be doing the mechanics required to macro well if brood war and the mechanics required to macro well in sc2 just are miles apart. I somehow doubt after just a few games you were able to perfectly handle the brood war mechanics and simply lost because you didnt have a solid build order. When you first start out on iccup macro trumps strategy and build orders 9 times out of ten. Even without the perfect strategic openings or choices simply being mechanically better than your opponent will give you the win
I guess there is confusion and ambiguity in the term macro and mechanics at times . It could be right to say sc2 zerg macro is harder but bw mechanics are way harder
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On September 21 2012 12:48 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 12:46 Dosey wrote:On September 21 2012 12:42 Xiphos wrote:On September 21 2012 12:38 Bobgrimly wrote:
Op forgot to factor in creep spreading... Perfect creep spread is very useful at all points of the game.
And BW zerg doesn't have to worry about a missed inject. From a stress point of view SC2 zerg is much more intensive. Getting distracted takes a lot out of macro. Missed injects/less creep spread = weaker zerg.
And SC2 has less micro options as mentioned to be able to make up for the lost macro. So Jaedong is probably pointing out that SC2 zerg is less forgiving than BW zerg, that there is more APM needed on a consistent basis than BW than total APM. That consistent apm is taken off all the other potential uses for your APM like microing an individual zergling or pack of mutas or infestors etc. BW zerg didn't have that problem. Okay you need to check out the definition of Macro. Macro = Unit Production. Creep Spread is a strategical aspect of the game. Thus I didn't included it because why the fuck would anyone go off the tangent from the topic we are trying to related. Last paragraph you wrote is a total blur. So because creep spread isn't really a factor in BW, we should just completely ignore it when trying to compare the difficulty of each game? Interesting. Where did you lose your ability to read, this is is only a macro analysis of the two games. So why don't you take that notion of yours and create your own thread for comparison.
Then you are interpreting JDs quote incorrectly and just started this topic to feed the SC2 hate. JD said the main difference and (apparent) cause for difficulty is the queen. What does the queen do? Please tell me, I forgot. What is the queens main two functions?
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Wow what a stupid fucking argument this will be.
Some aspects of BW were harder and made things easier for Zerg to win by executing.
Some aspects of SC2 are harder and make Zerg busy with new things.
Both games have hard aspects. End of discussion.
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creep spread = macro.. if you dont creep spread you dead.
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On September 21 2012 12:58 Powster wrote:
creep spread = macro.. if you dont creep spread you dead.
if anything i feel creep spread isnt anything to do with macro but does come into mechanics. creep spread does equal some mechanics, but nowhere near the level of mechanics of bw
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On September 21 2012 12:58 Powster wrote:
creep spread = macro.. if you dont creep spread you dead.
Wrong creep spread is purely tactical.
You don't understand the definition of macro.
That's like saying attacking with your unit as macro because if you don't, then you are dead.
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Of course Jaedong will say sc2 is harder, hes not the best at it. It would be cocky of him to say sc2 is easier when hes not the best.
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On September 21 2012 12:48 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 12:46 Dosey wrote:On September 21 2012 12:42 Xiphos wrote:On September 21 2012 12:38 Bobgrimly wrote:
Op forgot to factor in creep spreading... Perfect creep spread is very useful at all points of the game.
And BW zerg doesn't have to worry about a missed inject. From a stress point of view SC2 zerg is much more intensive. Getting distracted takes a lot out of macro. Missed injects/less creep spread = weaker zerg.
And SC2 has less micro options as mentioned to be able to make up for the lost macro. So Jaedong is probably pointing out that SC2 zerg is less forgiving than BW zerg, that there is more APM needed on a consistent basis than BW than total APM. That consistent apm is taken off all the other potential uses for your APM like microing an individual zergling or pack of mutas or infestors etc. BW zerg didn't have that problem. Okay you need to check out the definition of Macro. Macro = Unit Production. Creep Spread is a strategical aspect of the game. Thus I didn't included it because why the fuck would anyone go off the tangent from the topic we are trying to related. Last paragraph you wrote is a total blur. So because creep spread isn't really a factor in BW, we should just completely ignore it when trying to compare the difficulty of each game? Interesting. Where did you lose your ability to read, this is is only a macro analysis of the two games. So why don't you take that notion of yours and create your own thread for comparison.
Creep is spread by Queens. If building a new hatch is considered as macro, than building Queens. microing them and balancing their energy between creep/ larva is macro too. Your argument is invalid.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 21 2012 13:03 GreyMasta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 12:48 Xiphos wrote:On September 21 2012 12:46 Dosey wrote:On September 21 2012 12:42 Xiphos wrote:On September 21 2012 12:38 Bobgrimly wrote:
Op forgot to factor in creep spreading... Perfect creep spread is very useful at all points of the game.
And BW zerg doesn't have to worry about a missed inject. From a stress point of view SC2 zerg is much more intensive. Getting distracted takes a lot out of macro. Missed injects/less creep spread = weaker zerg.
And SC2 has less micro options as mentioned to be able to make up for the lost macro. So Jaedong is probably pointing out that SC2 zerg is less forgiving than BW zerg, that there is more APM needed on a consistent basis than BW than total APM. That consistent apm is taken off all the other potential uses for your APM like microing an individual zergling or pack of mutas or infestors etc. BW zerg didn't have that problem. Okay you need to check out the definition of Macro. Macro = Unit Production. Creep Spread is a strategical aspect of the game. Thus I didn't included it because why the fuck would anyone go off the tangent from the topic we are trying to related. Last paragraph you wrote is a total blur. So because creep spread isn't really a factor in BW, we should just completely ignore it when trying to compare the difficulty of each game? Interesting. Where did you lose your ability to read, this is is only a macro analysis of the two games. So why don't you take that notion of yours and create your own thread for comparison. Creep is spread by Queens. If building a new hatch is considered as macro, than building Queens. microing them and balancing their energy between creep/ larva is macro too. Your argument is invalid. On September 21 2012 12:57 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 12:48 Xiphos wrote:On September 21 2012 12:46 Dosey wrote:On September 21 2012 12:42 Xiphos wrote:On September 21 2012 12:38 Bobgrimly wrote:
Op forgot to factor in creep spreading... Perfect creep spread is very useful at all points of the game.
And BW zerg doesn't have to worry about a missed inject. From a stress point of view SC2 zerg is much more intensive. Getting distracted takes a lot out of macro. Missed injects/less creep spread = weaker zerg.
And SC2 has less micro options as mentioned to be able to make up for the lost macro. So Jaedong is probably pointing out that SC2 zerg is less forgiving than BW zerg, that there is more APM needed on a consistent basis than BW than total APM. That consistent apm is taken off all the other potential uses for your APM like microing an individual zergling or pack of mutas or infestors etc. BW zerg didn't have that problem. Okay you need to check out the definition of Macro. Macro = Unit Production. Creep Spread is a strategical aspect of the game. Thus I didn't included it because why the fuck would anyone go off the tangent from the topic we are trying to related. Last paragraph you wrote is a total blur. So because creep spread isn't really a factor in BW, we should just completely ignore it when trying to compare the difficulty of each game? Interesting. Where did you lose your ability to read, this is is only a macro analysis of the two games. So why don't you take that notion of yours and create your own thread for comparison. Then you are interpreting JDs quote incorrectly and just started this topic to feed the SC2 hate. JD said the main difference and (apparent) cause for difficulty is the queen. What does the queen do? Please tell me, I forgot. What is the queens main two functions?
Still haven't learned to read properly. The grand scheme of my post isn't really inspired by what Jaedong have said, it is inspired by the poster with his insight on macro and macro alone. JD's interview is just a bystander to my points.
Macro = unit production.
While in StarCraft 2, the Queen's ability have a undirect co-relation with macro by using her ability. If you want to exclude queens completely, then I don't know what to say about MBS being the sole factor.
Some of you REALLY needs to learn the basic of StarCraft and its definitions before getting agitated.
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Those who think sc2 zerg is harder haven tried controlling 3+ groups of lings, you guys have it easy
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Bisutopia19391 Posts
I'm pretty sure JD said SC2 was harder because it lacked zerg micro mechanics. Debating which game is harder is pointless and subjective to the person. SC2 is harder for him because his best strength can't be used in SC2. Nothing else can prove one game over the other outside of your opinions.
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Then you are interpreting JDs quote incorrectly and just started this topic to feed the SC2 hate. JD said the main difference and (apparent) cause for difficulty is the queen. What does the queen do? Please tell me, I forgot. What is the queens main two functions?
Spawn broodling and ensnare!
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Everything in BW is harder. There's quite a bit to do as Zerg in SC2 but it's made quite easy with more camera hotkeys, MBS, unlimited unit selection, etc...
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On September 21 2012 13:09 Tomba wrote:Show nested quote +
Then you are interpreting JDs quote incorrectly and just started this topic to feed the SC2 hate. JD said the main difference and (apparent) cause for difficulty is the queen. What does the queen do? Please tell me, I forgot. What is the queens main two functions?
Spawn broodling and ensnare!
Ah. Of course! His comparison was that spawn broodling and ensnare were so much easier than Spawn Larvae/Creep Tumor/Transfuse! We're all arguing for no reason. 
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There is a mistake in your math, I think it is just a typo but better be sure it is right
+ Show Spoiler +Okay so let's add the 0.06667 to the 0.1 of the Larvae Injects which makes it 1.06667 Larvae/1 Hatchery + 1 Queen.
according to the first half, shouldn't it be .16667? Or am I just missing something completely
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EPT
