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Do not use this thread to beg users for beta access or trade access with others. Thanks. |
Guys, I'm a Zerg player and I was one of the first to say that Baneling Burrow-move is a bad idea. Not because it could be overpowered or else, but because it's not a creative concept, and giving Zerg too many burrow options would force your opponent to make detection ALL-THE-TIME no mater what you do.
Blizzard wants players to make choices.
Also, placing some burrow banelings at keys location is more skilled and interesting than being able to 'follow' your opponent (who doesn't have detection, or killed by you), then hit detonate.
It was a bad idea from Game Design perspective, I'm very happy to not have this.
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On August 21 2012 23:14 REDSEW wrote: I hope this will be worth it... I can't wait for the Protoss Expansion however.
Pretty much! - I've played WoL 3 times now, despite finding the story quite cliche and weak compared to previous Blizzard titles - just because it looks pretty and has 4 Protoss missions
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With all the bad news coming out recently, I hope beta comes out in a timely manner.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
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The strength of a drop is determined by its staying power. A good drop require enemy to pull forces of equivalent resources to deal with it, or they can potentially deal even more damage and/or deny mining for as long as they are there. Fungal and baneling drops require no further action from the enemy if it's effective. This means these tactics are only reserved for zergs that are already ahead or they will suffer from a relatively stronger counter-attack, which kind of defeat the purpose of multi-pronged drops. If you are ahead, might as well just consolidate your army strength and play safe.
This is why zergs almost always choose to use ITs instead of fungals even if they kill less workers. Banelings drops and drop tech are huge investments in mid-early game, which makes you vulnerable to huge counter-attacks if they don't work out. Protoss only need to pull probes momentarily and warp in 2 units/1 cannon to deal with it. Pretty weak if you consider the strength of medivac drops and ITs.
Actually burrowed banelings movement might add a new dimension of micro in battles and tech switches even when they force detection every game, if they can move fast enough underground. Manual detonations from zerg, manual targeting by terrans due to lower attack priority. Since it's not humanly possible to marines to target fire all the banelings, it will force terrans to transition into a heavier mech composition. Tougher units + easier targeting using splash.
Removal of warpgate mechanics is my biggest wish. A huge beauty of this game is how people deal with reinforcements. How they use their own reinforcements in the most effective ways, how they attempt to zone out enemy's reinforcements, etc. Warp-ins dumb down protoss' tactical decisions alot. They also force enemy to dump apm into spectator-unfriendly stuffs like using active units to constantly find proxys instead of using them for aggression. Not to mention the protoss race has to be nerfed and made gimmicky due to the strength of their timing attacks.
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This is so entertaining!!!
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
That tournament is more fun to watch than all 3 Battle Reports
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On August 24 2012 01:00 Existor wrote:That tournament is more fun to watch than all 3 Battle Reports  It would be if we would saw some new units from Protoss and Zerg, currently only Terran is using new units. Both Bly and Fraer played standard games, and Bly even cheesed... it is a god damn tournament for 100$, it is supposed to be fun and to show some new units and timings, strategies etc. To Bly, it seems like his life depends on winning this tourney...
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I still think that WG mechanics will shine against Terran Mech. Today, they only make reinforcement mechanics pretty boring, but against Mech they can be used to create flanks with War Prism play as well as Harass. Multiple War Prism play should be good. Droping over Terran Mech with lack of AA should be good too.
Hallucination Play should be cool as well. A Protoss force can use hallucination to bait WM against Mech army with lack of detection. Fake War prism harass.
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Pretty awesome.
I love the caster's reaction to the hydra speed upgrade: "Did you see that?! Did you see those hydras move?!"
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Nice. I wonder what Blizzard's policy will be on tournaments using the real HotS beta once it comes out.
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Wish it wasn't only russian :/
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On August 24 2012 03:47 meursault wrote:Nice. I wonder what Blizzard's policy will be on tournaments using the real HotS beta once it comes out. they had no problem with WoL beta tournaments
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I'm hoping the beta gets announced for release this weekend at MLG. It seems like the most probable timing for it.
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On August 24 2012 04:01 BlackPanther wrote: I'm hoping the beta gets announced for release this weekend at MLG. It seems like the most probable timing for it.
They dont need an announcement, they can just start it when its ready.
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On August 24 2012 04:06 Aquila- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:01 BlackPanther wrote: I'm hoping the beta gets announced for release this weekend at MLG. It seems like the most probable timing for it. They dont need an announcement, they can just start it when its ready. hard to get people to DL the beta if noone knows its available >.>
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DTs kill one worker every few seconds and cost more then 4 banelings
2 banelings and kill upwards of 20 workers in a single second
Not really. A normal mineral line, 2 banelings will only kill about ~8 workers, a baneling blast only covers a little less than half the mineral line.
AND ITS FUCKING HIVE TECH?
The opponent will have over 70+ workers when burrow banes become an issue. Every race already puts static detection at every mineral line as it is. FG is WAY more deadly and comes out much earlier than burrow move banes, and infestors can move while burrowed too! OoOooOo!
There's no difference between burrow move infestors which come out at lair tech, and burrow move banes at hive tech.
Whatever, maybe you think there are some differences, but it's really not that huge. I'm not even arguing against the idea that burrow move bane is OP, all I'm wondering is why is Blizzard removing it, as everything in HOTS is broken, and Blizzard specifically stated they are introducing crazy and OP shit to the expansion because otherwise you'd never create a new game.
I want to know the official reason for burrow move banes being removed, I don't want to hear speculation on it by people who apparently think burrow move banes is just so broken, but 22 range tempests, widow mines that instakill anything while being cheaper than every unit in the game, nexus recall, is perfectly fine. Everything in HOTS is broken, that's just how it is. Make crazy shit for the new game, balance it afterwards. God forbid that Blizzard makes a new game.
I also have a few other question, still:
- Does blinding cloud still silence?
- They are reverting the mothership changes and keeping the mothership as is now?
right? kim said that they were keeping the mothership as is in the gamescom interview and I havent heard about blinding cloud silencing like it did at blizzcon.
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On August 24 2012 04:06 Aquila- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:01 BlackPanther wrote: I'm hoping the beta gets announced for release this weekend at MLG. It seems like the most probable timing for it. They dont need an announcement, they can just start it when its ready.
I would imagine that as a huge company, Blizzard is certainly aware that the longer they delay after the "soon" announcement the less interest they will have so probably it will really be coming in the very near future. MLG might actually be a good bet.
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So get somebody to give an interview. The explanation the guy in this thread sounds pretty reasonable, though: A baneling nest and hive tech are probably too ordinary to make for a good cloaked worker killer. As much as you put hive tech in ALLCAPS it's still less of an outlier than a DT shrine, and probably also less of an outlier than mass banshees just because of the production buildings necessary to go for it.
Not that getting hive tech isn't a hassle, but this is SC2 where you have infestors rather than queens, and brood lords rather than guardians.
And before you start posting a laundry list of the builds times and costs or something, yes it does take longer and with more resources spent, that doesn't mean that it's really harder.
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Not really. A normal mineral line, 2 banelings will only kill about ~8 workers, a baneling blast only covers a little less than half the mineral line.
with +2 banelings one shot workers so one baneling on one half and one baneling on the toher kills every worker in the mineral line
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